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Tags part 3 , loose change , 911 conspiracy theory

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Old 25th July 2006, 07:33 PM   #2841
Arkan_Wolfshade
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Originally Posted by Gravy View Post
Those of you who've seen Loose Change or read my critique of it are aware that one of its main sources of disinformation is the American Free Press. The AFP is relatively new, and lists its predecessor as a publication called the Spotlight. I did some Googling on the Spotlight but didn't turn up much in my brief search. A reader has just emailed me with some very interesting (and not surprising) information, reprinted with permission:
Here's some corroborating info:
http://www.americanfreepress.net/htm...l_meeting.html
Quote:
In 2000, when yours truly was with the now defunct Spotlight, it was positively determined that Bilderberg would meet in the area of Brussels, Belgium, June 1-3. But the precise location was unclear.
http://64.233.167.104/custom?q=cache...29003121141183
http://www.americanfreepress.net/Liberty_Supplement.pdf
Quote:
Final Notes . . .
American Free Press newspaper (and before it
The Spotlight) were the only newspapers in America
we know of to expose the facts about this brutal and
wanton attack before the truth was aired on the
Discovery Channel more than 30 years after the
http://www.americanfreepress.net/htm...rs_strike.html
Quote:
The suit was filed in U.S. District Court in Washington July 19, under auspices of the We the People Foundation, by Mark Lane, longtime general counsel to the now-defunct Spotlight and its publisher, Liberty Lobby.
If anyone is interested in more info on Liberty Lobby, Willis Carto, et al check out M. Shermer's Why People Believe Weird Things in the Holocause deniers section.

I mean, dang, I know I said I thought their tactics bore a striking resemblence to Holocause deniers, but, wowza. I wouldn't have guess such a tight linkage.
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Old 25th July 2006, 07:45 PM   #2842
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Originally Posted by Arkan_Wolfshade View Post
In short, I want to know who their crack-dealer is; because he is providing high grade junk.
Yes, I've done this calculation several times, for the gold claim in LC, for the recent claims, and for the (mostly silver) and gold that was actually removed from the vaults. It's a fun calculation to do, because idiocy is usually hard to quantify. The price of gold at EOM September, 2001 was $283.42, August was $272.49, per the World Gold Council. Know what's scary? I have those figures memorized.
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Old 25th July 2006, 07:49 PM   #2843
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Originally Posted by Arkan_Wolfshade View Post
I mean, dang, I know I said I thought their tactics bore a striking resemblence to Holocause deniers, but, wowza. I wouldn't have guess such a tight linkage.
Thanks, Arkan. Scary stuff. Thanks for the reminder to read Shermer also.
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Old 25th July 2006, 07:50 PM   #2844
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Originally Posted by Gravy View Post
Those of you who've seen Loose Change or read my critique of it are aware that one of its main sources of disinformation is the American Free Press. The AFP is relatively new, and lists its predecessor as a publication called the Spotlight. I did some Googling on the Spotlight but didn't turn up much in my brief search. A reader has just emailed me with some very interesting (and not surprising) information, reprinted with permission:

In Jones newest paper there is a person named Rick Rajter (9/11 truth member) who is working on a "debunk" of Mikes 9/11 myths site. He states he will "focus on the top 10 examples of half truths, false information, speculation..."

Anyway, it seems this pattern continues within the "truth movement"
I guess he believes that Stormfront is a valid source for information.
http://hammeroftruth.com/2005/12/09/...the-holocaust/
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Old 25th July 2006, 07:53 PM   #2845
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Originally Posted by Gravy View Post
Yes, I've done this calculation several times, for the gold claim in LC, for the recent claims, and for the (mostly silver) and gold that was actually removed from the vaults. It's a fun calculation to do, because idiocy is usually hard to quantify. The price of gold at EOM September, 2001 was $283.42, August was $272.49, per the World Gold Council. Know what's scary? I have those figures memorized.
This gives me a good idea for another "fun stuff" article to point out how much of an idiot Dylan Avery is...again

So what is the official price for an ounce of gold? I keep hearing wild numbers from 250 to 280, so which one is real?
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Old 25th July 2006, 07:54 PM   #2846
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Originally Posted by Kent1 View Post
In Jones newest paper there is a person named Rick Rajter (9/11 truth member) who is working on a "debunk" of Mikes 9/11 myths site. He states he will "focus on the top 10 examples of half truths, false information, speculation..."

Anyway, it seems this pattern continues within the "truth movement"
I guess he believes that Stormfront is a valid source for information.
http://hammeroftruth.com/2005/12/09/...the-holocaust/
Also, this has some good information even if its from Hoffman's site
http://911review.com/denial/holocaust.html
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Old 25th July 2006, 07:56 PM   #2847
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Originally Posted by Arkan_Wolfshade View Post
Here's some corroborating info:
http://www.americanfreepress.net/htm...l_meeting.html


http://64.233.167.104/custom?q=cache...29003121141183
http://www.americanfreepress.net/Liberty_Supplement.pdf


http://www.americanfreepress.net/htm...rs_strike.html


If anyone is interested in more info on Liberty Lobby, Willis Carto, et al check out M. Shermer's Why People Believe Weird Things in the Holocause deniers section.

I mean, dang, I know I said I thought their tactics bore a striking resemblence to Holocause deniers, but, wowza. I wouldn't have guess such a tight linkage.
A couple of weeks ago when I was discussing the academic credibility of sources with Jim Fetzer, I mentioned the American Free Press (which the scholars reference in their "peer reviewed" journal) and sent him this link. No surprise, he didn't respond on this topic.

http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/cart...d=2&item=carto
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Old 25th July 2006, 08:03 PM   #2848
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Originally Posted by Kent1 View Post
In Jones newest paper there is a person named Rick Rajter (9/11 truth member) who is working on a "debunk" of Mikes 9/11 myths site. He states he will "focus on the top 10 examples of half truths, false information, speculation..."

Anyway, it seems this pattern continues within the "truth movement"
I guess he believes that Stormfront is a valid source for information.
http://hammeroftruth.com/2005/12/09/...the-holocaust/
It seems that alot of 911 "researchers" really dont have a clue when it comes to whats reputable and what isnt. I think its because their perception of reality and what's normal is soooo jaded and skewed.
For example, I did a search on one of them who's been at SLC spewing garbage, and I found him asking "whats wrong with judicialinc.biz ?" in an AirAmerica forum after somone asked him if he was serious when he linked it. judicialinc.biz is a hideous holocaust denial/neo-Nazi/Hitler supporting site laden with extremely disturbing images, swastikas, etc.... he found nothing wrong with it and couldnt see why others did. Amazing.
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Old 25th July 2006, 08:22 PM   #2849
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Originally Posted by Kent1 View Post
In Jones newest paper there is a person named Rick Rajter (9/11 truth member) who is working on a "debunk" of Mikes 9/11 myths site. He states he will "focus on the top 10 examples of half truths, false information, speculation..."

Anyway, it seems this pattern continues within the "truth movement"
I guess he believes that Stormfront is a valid source for information.
http://hammeroftruth.com/2005/12/09/...the-holocaust/
Holy mackeral. Will the scum never cease? Does Mike know about this guy?
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Old 25th July 2006, 08:27 PM   #2850
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Originally Posted by Gravy View Post
Holy mackeral. Will the scum never cease? Does Mike know about this guy?
Yea. We've talked about him.
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Old 25th July 2006, 08:51 PM   #2851
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Well, speaking of an overflowing loonucopia, I actually wish i'd found this site when I started my Loose Change research. It's Wing TV's 2005 "Best of" list. When the page loaded, I thought, "Oh, here's a nice top-ten list." And then I scrolled down. And scrolled. And scrolled.

Some of the pieces are hilarious. Until you remember that they're talking about the actions of real people.
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Old 25th July 2006, 09:19 PM   #2852
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Originally Posted by MarkyX View Post
http://paltalk.com/

There is a 9/11 conspriacy theory discussion. Hope you guys have a mic or good typists.
I recorded this place, when they were playing Betty Ong's call from flight 11. The part that was recorded. The rest is them tearing it appart and just the crap that is typical in this room. If anyone want a copy to post, PM me and I'll email it to you.

Steve
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Old 25th July 2006, 09:32 PM   #2853
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Originally Posted by Gravy View Post
Well, speaking of an overflowing loonucopia, I actually wish i'd found this site when I started my Loose Change research. It's Wing TV's 2005 "Best of" list. When the page loaded, I thought, "Oh, here's a nice top-ten list." And then I scrolled down. And scrolled. And scrolled.

Some of the pieces are hilarious. Until you remember that they're talking about the actions of real people.
Woo Central, eh, Gravy?
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Old 25th July 2006, 09:39 PM   #2854
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Originally Posted by MarkyX View Post
So what is the official price for an ounce of gold? I keep hearing wild numbers from 250 to 280, so which one is real?
August gold is at $618 a troy ounce. December gold dropped to $630.30.

http://www.thestreet.com/_googlen/ma...FREE&cm_ite=NA

Not sure what it sells for today.
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Old 25th July 2006, 10:01 PM   #2855
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Originally Posted by Gravy View Post
Well, speaking of an overflowing loonucopia, I actually wish i'd found this site when I started my Loose Change research. It's Wing TV's 2005 "Best of" list. When the page loaded, I thought, "Oh, here's a nice top-ten list." And then I scrolled down. And scrolled. And scrolled.

Some of the pieces are hilarious. Until you remember that they're talking about the actions of real people.
Oh, this list is great. Still lookig through it.

I love this though..."Most Blatant Example of a Cover-Up...The silencing of BYU Physics Professor Steven E. Jones --- A textbook example of information black-out."

Yea, he's so silenced that I can find his "paper" and all of his other latest theories all over the internet!
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Old 25th July 2006, 10:09 PM   #2856
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Oh, and in the "where do they come up with this stuff" catagory, we have...

"Most Overlooked 9-11 Smoking Gun of the Year...No Flight 93 at Shanksville --- The government's hoax has now been exposed for the entire world to see. Flight 93 (or something purporting to be Flight 93) was actually shot down over Indian Lake, Pa., and crash-landed in a tiny town called New Baltimore, Pa., which is located approximately 6-8 miles away from Shanksville. Thus, to create a massive diversion away from the actual crash site, a missile was fired into an abandoned strip mine in Shanksville, which then became the place where the media and curious onlookers were corraled."
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Old 25th July 2006, 10:13 PM   #2857
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Yeah, not just Woo Central, but a woo black hole!
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Old 25th July 2006, 10:28 PM   #2858
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Originally Posted by kevin View Post
August gold is at $618 a troy ounce. December gold dropped to $630.30.

Not sure what it sells for today.
http://www.business-standard.com/sma...no=99236&tab=r

July 26th:

Quote:
In the late afternoon trade, the yellow metal plummeted to $609 an ounce from the day’s opening at $614.
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Old 25th July 2006, 10:50 PM   #2859
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Didn't Mr. T just swear off gold like it was smoking?
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Old 26th July 2006, 12:29 AM   #2860
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Originally Posted by Kent1 View Post
In Jones newest paper there is a person named Rick Rajter (9/11 truth member) who is working on a "debunk" of Mikes 9/11 myths site. He states he will "focus on the top 10 examples of half truths, false information, speculation..."

Anyway, it seems this pattern continues within the "truth movement"
I guess he believes that Stormfront is a valid source for information.
http://hammeroftruth.com/2005/12/09/...the-holocaust/
We got cited in one of the Stormfront forums as good guys to debunk Dylan and Co. I'll have to look up the link tomorrow to see if the argument was about whether the Zionists were behind it.

Remember, the neo-Nazi link to 9-11 denial is not surprising. We've had the paranoid right mingling with the paranoid left over Israel for a couple decades. Add in the Muslims who want to deny Islamic involvement in 9-11 and you've got three groups who'd very much like to blame this on the Jews. Throw in the "neocon" euphemism for Jews and you've pretty much got Dylan Avery's position.

It's not that they're all neo-Nazis. It's just that they all find themselves with a commonality of interest in moving the story off 19 Arab terrorists.
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Old 26th July 2006, 03:45 AM   #2861
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Somebody already tried to debunk 911myths. I remember reading it, and thinking that all the guy was doing was commenting on the tone of the information, and accusing Mike and gang of making a bunch of strawman arguments.

I doubt this guy will do anything more than that. It is hard to debunk the "REAL TRUTH" unless they continue their "making up lies" campaign. In that case, we'll all just have to shoot them down again.
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Old 26th July 2006, 04:14 AM   #2862
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post

Remember, the neo-Nazi link to 9-11 denial is not surprising. We've had the paranoid right mingling with the paranoid left over Israel for a couple decades. Add in the Muslims who want to deny Islamic involvement in 9-11 and you've got three groups who'd very much like to blame this on the Jews. Throw in the "neocon" euphemism for Jews and you've pretty much got Dylan Avery's position.
Dylan Avey's position is in the center ring of the circus wearing the top hat. He has the ring on the right full of crackpots, and the ring on the left equaly full of crackpots, both with their agendas of havoc.

He wants to run the Greatest Snow on Earth.
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Old 26th July 2006, 04:29 AM   #2863
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Originally Posted by Gravy View Post
Well, speaking of an overflowing loonucopia, I actually wish i'd found this site when I started my Loose Change research. It's Wing TV's 2005 "Best of" list. When the page loaded, I thought, "Oh, here's a nice top-ten list." And then I scrolled down. And scrolled. And scrolled.

Some of the pieces are hilarious. Until you remember that they're talking about the actions of real people.
And look who shows up at number 143:
Quote:
Unsung Activist of the Year
Rick Rajter --- Oftentimes there are people behind-the-scenes who are doing even more work than those at the forefront. Rick Rajter is one of these individuals, and he certainly doesn't receive enough credit for it.
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Old 26th July 2006, 04:57 AM   #2864
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Originally Posted by Gravy View Post
Welcom to the forum, T.A.M.
Your WTC gold theory is far too sensible to make it into an Avery production. He contends that the airplane strikes were distractions for the gold theft, and that the $167 billion (lately they've been saying it's over $1 trillion) was removed between the time the first plane hit and the time the south tower collapsed: 73 minutes.
1 Trillion ?? Isn't that WAY MORE than the total sum of the world-wide gold reserves ?

Wow! These people can CREATE gold!
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Old 26th July 2006, 05:30 AM   #2865
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Originally Posted by T.A.M. View Post
Somebody already tried to debunk 911myths. I remember reading it, and thinking that all the guy was doing was commenting on the tone of the information, and accusing Mike and gang of making a bunch of strawman arguments.

I doubt this guy will do anything more than that. It is hard to debunk the "REAL TRUTH" unless they continue their "making up lies" campaign. In that case, we'll all just have to shoot them down again.
Pretty much so. I got a fair bit of email saying that I am 'too sarcastic' at some points. Although I agree, it's intentional because this is just a bunch of bullcrap over and over again. I merely point out the BS and information hidden, and information hidden is not truth.

Some people refused to look past the point where I asked "where is the connection to 9/11" when they talk about Operation Northwoods and Drone pilots. To a critical thinker, the film doesn't make provide any evidence of a question and merely shows it's existence (a real documentary would show it), and I point this out. On the otherhand, dumb theorists think I am just 'asking questions' that doesn't provide anything

And they wonder why the rest of the world views them as nuts. I find it ironic that they dislike the mainstream media BUT would take a propaganda film like Loose Change that even Hitler would be proud of without question.

I really hope that none of these people ever hold political power. It would be a real fascist state.
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Old 26th July 2006, 05:46 AM   #2866
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Originally Posted by MarkyX View Post

So what is the official price for an ounce of gold? I keep hearing wild numbers from 250 to 280, so which one is real?
I hope you're not naive enough to believe the OFFICAL price of gold. That's just a fabrication by the Zionists and the Joooos.

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Old 26th July 2006, 06:00 AM   #2867
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
1 Trillion ?? Isn't that WAY MORE than the total sum of the world-wide gold reserves ?

Wow! These people can CREATE gold!

They have the lead.

The CT'ers and Loosers share much with alchemists.
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Old 26th July 2006, 06:25 AM   #2868
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Oh. My. God.

I don't even know what to say to this. I'm sitting here, trying to wrap my brain around it and come up with something witty, but the fact of the matter is, there's really no point.

Oliver Stone made World Trade Center as part of a DWI and drug possession deal.
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Old 26th July 2006, 06:44 AM   #2869
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Since i can see johndoeX doesn't trust my translation and Arkan is having an argument with him about it I'll elaborate on it. If you want to continue the argument feel free to quote me.

jag = I
e (dialect) = är = am,is,are
knepp (dialect or misspelling) = knäpp = silly, loony, nuts

There is not one knepp in the Swedish on-line phone directory (www.eniro.se) only one Jage (does not even come close to knepp in his last name) and five or six with the last name Knäpp

Close English example would be Iam Stopid.

If he wants my credentials I'm from Sweden and it could be fun to ask him to find a swede thats not agreeing with the translation or if he rather trusts on-line translators. Of course it could be an exchange student but I find it extremely unlikely.
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Old 26th July 2006, 06:56 AM   #2870
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Originally Posted by realitybites View Post
I don't even know what to say to this. I'm sitting here, trying to wrap my brain around it and come up with something witty, but the fact of the matter is, there's really no point.
I know the feeling. I had a long reply all typed up and dumped it instead of submitting it because, truth be known, I think a vast majority of the members of the 'truth movement' are incapable of logical thinking (mutton-head and speakthetruth come to mind). The only thing they've 'proven' is that Stone was cited for DUI and drug possesion. It's akin to when Stone was quoted as saying 'he has every right to say what he wants' (paraphrasing) about Charlie Sheen's comments concerning 911. Some members of the (bowel) movement jumped on that as meaning Stone was a troofer when, logically, Stone may have been merely reaffirming Sheen's First Amendment rights.

Has anyone seen the thread in the 'investigate 911' section of that forum titled 'something not talked about' started by someone who calls themself 'the decider'? He's trying to make the case that the towers were so strong because of their cores. I seem to remember reading that the load split was 60/40 in favor of the exterior columns but I can't find it on the 'net. Am I remembering correctly?

Sorry, I can't post a link yet.
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Old 26th July 2006, 07:07 AM   #2871
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Well, I started my first thread on Loose Change, basically on the Gold question because as a Logistics Specialist I find the idea of moving 18,000 tons of gold in 76 minutes rather...infeasible is the nicest word I can think of.

I was completely respectful and I think my questions were worded in a non-confrontational tone, but some were a direct challenge to Mr.Avery to answer, so we'll see if I smoke him out, or just get banned...

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Ch...showtopic=8829
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Old 26th July 2006, 07:15 AM   #2872
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Originally Posted by Grundar View Post
Since i can see johndoeX doesn't trust my translation and Arkan is having an argument with him about it I'll elaborate on it. If you want to continue the argument feel free to quote me.

jag = I
e (dialect) = är = am,is,are
knepp (dialect or misspelling) = knäpp = silly, loony, nuts

There is not one knepp in the Swedish on-line phone directory (www.eniro.se) only one Jage (does not even come close to knepp in his last name) and five or six with the last name Knäpp
Much less in the Stockholm University Chemistry department (although, to be fair, SU doesn't really have a "chemistry" department per se, but has departments of analytical chemistry, organic chemistry, etc.) I was not able to access the link to the Sociology dept, so I couldn't check there.

And it took all of like 2 minutes to check it out. Anyone can do it. There is no reason to argue about it, because it is trivial to look it up.
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Old 26th July 2006, 07:23 AM   #2873
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Originally Posted by Hutch View Post
Well, I started my first thread on Loose Change, basically on the Gold question because as a Logistics Specialist I find the idea of moving 18,000 tons of gold in 76 minutes rather...infeasible is the nicest word I can think of...

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Ch...showtopic=8829
Re-read your first post, Hutch. Was it 167 or 176 bill?
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Old 26th July 2006, 07:28 AM   #2874
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Smile Why the date 9/11?

Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey View Post
I'd heard that it was because not very many people fly on Tuesdays.
It was also the day after a holiday, Labor Day.

I think the main concern was weather...they wanted the attacks to go off early in the morning, with perfect wdeather, for maximum TV impact.

Remember that terrorism is more about psychological warfare than actual destruction.
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Old 26th July 2006, 07:30 AM   #2875
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Question Neo-Nazis and 9/11

Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
We got cited in one of the Stormfront forums as good guys to debunk Dylan and Co. I'll have to look up the link tomorrow to see if the argument was about whether the Zionists were behind it.

Remember, the neo-Nazi link to 9-11 denial is not surprising. We've had the paranoid right mingling with the paranoid left over Israel for a couple decades. Add in the Muslims who want to deny Islamic involvement in 9-11 and you've got three groups who'd very much like to blame this on the Jews. Throw in the "neocon" euphemism for Jews and you've pretty much got Dylan Avery's position.

It's not that they're all neo-Nazis. It's just that they all find themselves with a commonality of interest in moving the story off 19 Arab terrorists.
Funnily enough, when 9/11 took place, neo-Nazis cheered the atrocity and blamed it on their various Jewish menaces...they also issued statements admiring the terrorists who flew the planes, hailing them for killing Jews.

Neo-Nazis try to have their cake and eat it too.
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Old 26th July 2006, 07:31 AM   #2876
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Originally Posted by Grundar View Post
Since i can see johndoeX doesn't trust my translation and Arkan is having an argument with him about it I'll elaborate on it. If you want to continue the argument feel free to quote me.

jag = I
e (dialect) = är = am,is,are
knepp (dialect or misspelling) = knäpp = silly, loony, nuts

There is not one knepp in the Swedish on-line phone directory (www.eniro.se) only one Jage (does not even come close to knepp in his last name) and five or six with the last name Knäpp

Close English example would be Iam Stopid.

If he wants my credentials I'm from Sweden and it could be fun to ask him to find a swede thats not agreeing with the translation or if he rather trusts on-line translators. Of course it could be an exchange student but I find it extremely unlikely.
Done. With appropriate credits. Thanks much!
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Old 26th July 2006, 07:40 AM   #2877
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Smile Does this count?

Originally Posted by Mutton-Head View Post
OK, does anybody else work for any US intelligence agency, either part-time or full-time?
I'm on Newark's Emergency Operations Committee and Homeland Security Committee. When the bomb is dropped, I'll be helping to run things from the bunker.
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Old 26th July 2006, 07:45 AM   #2878
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Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin View Post
Re-read your first post, Hutch. Was it 167 or 176 bill?
I used $167 B in my calculations; that is one reason I asked for clairification.

See your point, edited.

And Mutton-head, I do not work for any intelligence agency, but I have been an employee of the Department of Defense for the last 25 years..does that count?
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Old 26th July 2006, 07:49 AM   #2879
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Originally Posted by Kiwiwriter View Post
It was also the day after a holiday, Labor Day.
Labor Day was Sept 3, at least in the US.
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Old 26th July 2006, 07:54 AM   #2880
Kiwiwriter
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Smile A holiday in our street, too...

Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Labor Day was Sept 3, at least in the US.
I'm almost certain that September 10, 2001 was a Labor Day...I remembe waking up that morning, seeing what a beautiful day it was, and wishing I could call in sick, and take the day off. But I knew that my chain of command doesn't like people calling in sick the day after a three-day-weekend, without a doctor's note, so I went to work anyway.
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