The Angel of the Thames

tmackean · 13th November 2006, 05:40 AM

I was listening to a rather silly paranormal radio show on London's LBC Friday-past, when they interviewed a guy called David Grant.

Grant is a TV presenter, best-known for his involvement in the BBC's knock-off of Pop Idol/American Idol - "Fame Academy".

He was reluctant to say much, but it seemed that he'd been filming by the Thames, and was startled to see something that looked like the classical description of an Angel floating above the water. It spooked him, and the filming was halted.

He was very cagey in his interview, and seemed surprised to hear that the footage had already made its way onto YouTube. He declined to describe what he'd seen, saying only that he was still working through it for himself.

Here's the video;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbK9oYf_OAo

I Googled this, and it turns out that there are persistent sightings of some white hazy shape hovering in a stationary position over the Thames. It has a kind of 'V' shape, that could be interpreted through our Western cultural conditioning as Angel-like. People who have seen this shape often report a feeling of well-being and happiness.

There's a site all about it;

http://www.angelofthethames.com/

...although have a look at the site owner's get-up in his intro video for a clue as to just how independent and unbiased his scrutiny of the facts is likely to be!!

Anyway, I mentioned 'facts'. These are rather thin on the ground. The photo evidence could all be photoshopped, and David Grant could be in it for the publicity. Could be a stunt for a new show, or something, I guess.

I mentioned this story to my girlfriend, a big Angel fan, and she instantly believed every word. Depressing, I know!

I must admit that when I explained that it was probably all faked, I'M the one who sounded a conspiracy nut, although I'd argue that a dozen independent fakes of the same supposed phenomena are still more likely than the appearance of a 'divine' being...

Wondering if anyone has heard of the Thames Angel before, or might have a rational, natural explanation for the 'V'-shaped haze which appears in the pictures?

Garrette · 13th November 2006, 06:25 AM

I didn't see anything over the Thames in that video, nor in the other videos that are listed on the same page.

John Jackson · 13th November 2006, 06:33 AM

At around 54 seconds into the video there's a statue in the background of an angel with V-shaped wings.

It looks like a spoof to me. Of course I could be seeing things though!

Pipirr · 13th November 2006, 06:42 AM

The haze in the photographs looked like a camera artifact. It certainly didn't look like an angel.

FarSideOfTheMoon · 13th November 2006, 06:43 AM

This doesn't quite look right to me either. Doesn't look natural.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a96qQ9-pQao

fsol · 13th November 2006, 06:47 AM

I have a feeling that it is some kind of viral marketing thing for a new show.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a96qQ...elated&search=

fsol · 13th November 2006, 06:49 AM

Originally Posted by fsol

I have a feeling that it is some kind of viral marketing thing for a new show.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a96qQ...elated&search=

Edit: bah! beaten to it

tmackean · 13th November 2006, 07:03 AM

I definitely wouldn't rule out viral marketing. Actually, it fits really well.

However it's normally pretty easy to spot a viral ploy, and there are enough sites and references out there to this dating back some time, that if it's an stunt, it's an ambitious and well-conceived one. Hardly worth it, I would have thought.

The David Grant stuff could be viral, maybe, but I *think* some of the site devoted to this are genuine. Of course, that doesn't mean I think the Angel is genuine!

Begs the question if anyone has REALLY heard of the 'Angel' before 2006? I certainly hadn't.

case sensitive · 13th November 2006, 07:13 AM

Is the Slovak reporter really who he say he is? Any slovaks around?

It sure looks fake...

tmackean · 13th November 2006, 07:49 AM

Yes, the slovak stuff definitely looks a little fake. Is that meant to be the same day? David is wearing the same clothes. How would they have found out about that so quickly?!

The videos are posted on YouTube by the webmaster of www.angelofthethames.com, so if it's a viral thing, then his site is part of it. It looks like the site has only been registered in the latter half of 2006, as has another connected site; www.angelonthethames.com, registered and run by someone else.

Which once again begs the question; has anyone heard of this before 2006?

fsol · 13th November 2006, 07:53 AM

Originally Posted by case sensitive

Is the Slovak reporter really who he say he is? Any slovaks around?

It sure looks fake...

He doesn't exist according to google,what ever that's worth. And Slovak TV doesn't seem to have the same logo as on the video.

http://www.stv.sk/

There is basically nothing a quick google pulls up that isn't connected to the angel on the thames website as far as I can see.

Edit: If there were historical sightings Wouldn't you expect Wikipedia to have at least a stub on it? I can't find it on there.

tmackean · 13th November 2006, 08:08 AM

I've done a little more research.

Delved into the historical sightings. It bothered me that there seemed to be very little out there on the web.

Several of the sites (remember, they all seem to have been started in the latter half of this year) link to a supposed etching, made in 1865 which documents a sighting of this apparition.

Check it out here:

http://www.angelofthethames.com/sightings.html

In that hazy version, the angel contains an outline which could be some kind of holy light.

In this sharper version, the Angel's outline appears a little ragged, like it's a shoddy cut and paste from another image.

http://www.freewebs.com/jimiadamson/...nthethames.htm

Sure enough, check out Wikipedia's entry on the Construction of the Thames Embankment:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:E...t_ILN_1865.jpg

Same etching. No Angel. End of story!

Starrman · 13th November 2006, 08:31 AM

The 'angel' can be seen in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAmzF...elated&search=

At about 10 second in, it appears and then fades out, a little above and between the heads of the 2nd and 3rd person from the left of the screen.

Looks added in to me.

Garrette · 13th November 2006, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by John Jackson

At around 54 seconds into the video there's a statue in the background of an angel with V-shaped wings.

It looks like a spoof to me. Of course I could be seeing things though!

I saw that the first time through and thought it was a statue on the opposite bank that the camera was only aimed at the once.

I should be more careful in my observations.

I call shenanigans.

Maja · 13th November 2006, 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by case sensitive

Is the Slovak reporter really who he say he is? Any slovaks around?

It sure looks fake...

I'm not Slovakian, but I am Slavic and I'm completely sure this reporter doesn't exist. The name Richardazmov Burriničhovna doesn't even remotely resemble a name from any real Slavic language (except for the prefixes -ov and -ovna, both of which are used wrong), and there is no reason a Slovakian TV show about London would open with a picture of St Basil's cathedral in Moscow.

Starthinker · 13th November 2006, 01:51 PM

Viral. Some game or show or game show will come of this. Just like the "giants" that were discovered last summer.

Minarvia · 13th November 2006, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by Starrman

The 'angel' can be seen in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAmzF...elated&search=

At about 10 second in, it appears and then fades out, a little above and between the heads of the 2nd and 3rd person from the left of the screen.

Looks added in to me.

Yeah, or it is a drop of moisture that got on the lens, as someone wrote in the reviews boxes a few comments down. It happens so fast that I can't believe anyone even THOUGHT to see something paranormal in that clip.

Big Les · 13th November 2006, 03:47 PM

I've seen a fair few things floating in the Thames, but never an angel.

BillC · 13th November 2006, 03:56 PM

In the first clip, we see David Grant standing on the Thames embankment by Jubilee Gardens, you can see Waterloo Pier and the London Eye behind him. The Korean singers are on the South Bank upstream of Hungerford footbridge, you can see Charing Cross station behind them.

This places them literally a few metres away from where David Grant was shown. Convenient, no, to have two film crews just a short distance apart when an angel appears? Either that, or the angel has appeared at exactly the same spot over the river, and on days which sport the very same weather. Equally convenient.

fuelair · 13th November 2006, 04:54 PM

It's the Thames, it's fog!!

tmackean · 14th November 2006, 01:13 AM

OK, so to summarise;

* The Slovak footage is clearly false, negating the David Grant thing entirely. It's not STVs logo, the reporter has a made up name and the title picture is actually St. Basils in Moscow.

* The Korean footage was filmed on the same spot, or very close by. Therefore, by implication, it was filmed at the same time.

* Every website associated with this was registered in the second half of this year.

* No references exist outside of these 5 or 6 new sites.

* The Grant footage was posted on YouTube by www.angelofthethames.com.

* www.angelofthethames.com contains a historical archive which prominently features an 1865 etching of the construction of the Thames Embankment. The Angel has been pasted onto the etching - the original image doesn't have it.

* Many of the photographic images pasted online are CLEARLY produced using Photoshop filters - it's obvious in some shots, and just likely in others.

* 'Richard Morris' is the chap in the period clothing who claims to be secretary of the club. The site was actually registered by a Richard Delingpole of Worcester. Mr Delingpole is one of the 'Worcester Re-enactors' - they re-enact civil war battles etc. This would give him access to period clothing such as that adorned by Mr Morris. Hmm... Is Richard Morris an invented personality? Perhaps - he's listed as 'Richard Morrison' on his own video titles!

* Richard Delingpole is a graphic designer, and went to the Bournville school of art, which would give him familiarity with Photoshop, and the skills to pull of a spoof such as this.

Debunked, I think. I wonder what they're promoting?

Timble · 14th November 2006, 01:21 AM

To quote from my twin on another message board:

Quote:

The story is posted to a forum on Global Angels, a child support charity website. (you'll habve to searche the forum for Ange of the Thames).

Elsewhere on the forumabout a charity concert

Quote:

David Grant came on stage to welcome everyone, what a great ambassador he is for GA. Then Molly came on to talk about the "Step UP" campagne and we watched a video.

David Grant is also one of the sponsors of the Charity

tmackean · 14th November 2006, 03:02 AM

'Global Angels' is one of the meta keywords in the page source.

In fact, the Global Angels logo is the V shaped Angel. In some of the pictures in the little cluster of sites, it appears that the logo graphic itself has been used to produce the effect, albeit extensively filtered.

The charity is planning a live acoustic event to promote the work they do and raise money at the London Eye.... by the banks of the Thames!

One of the other keywords on the AngelOfTheThames site is '360'. The name of the music event is the '360 degree revolution in Kindness'.

Now we know what they're promoting, too. Cool.

13th November 2006, 05:40 AM	#1
tmackean Thinker Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 232	The Angel of the Thames I was listening to a rather silly paranormal radio show on London's LBC Friday-past, when they interviewed a guy called David Grant. Grant is a TV presenter, best-known for his involvement in the BBC's knock-off of Pop Idol/American Idol - "Fame Academy". He was reluctant to say much, but it seemed that he'd been filming by the Thames, and was startled to see something that looked like the classical description of an Angel floating above the water. It spooked him, and the filming was halted. He was very cagey in his interview, and seemed surprised to hear that the footage had already made its way onto YouTube. He declined to describe what he'd seen, saying only that he was still working through it for himself. Here's the video; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbK9oYf_OAo I Googled this, and it turns out that there are persistent sightings of some white hazy shape hovering in a stationary position over the Thames. It has a kind of 'V' shape, that could be interpreted through our Western cultural conditioning as Angel-like. People who have seen this shape often report a feeling of well-being and happiness. There's a site all about it; http://www.angelofthethames.com/ ...although have a look at the site owner's get-up in his intro video for a clue as to just how independent and unbiased his scrutiny of the facts is likely to be!! Anyway, I mentioned 'facts'. These are rather thin on the ground. The photo evidence could all be photoshopped, and David Grant could be in it for the publicity. Could be a stunt for a new show, or something, I guess. I mentioned this story to my girlfriend, a big Angel fan, and she instantly believed every word. Depressing, I know! I must admit that when I explained that it was probably all faked, I'M the one who sounded a conspiracy nut, although I'd argue that a dozen independent fakes of the same supposed phenomena are still more likely than the appearance of a 'divine' being... Wondering if anyone has heard of the Thames Angel before, or might have a rational, natural explanation for the 'V'-shaped haze which appears in the pictures?
tmackean Thinker Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 232

13th November 2006, 06:25 AM	#2
Garrette Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 14,768	I didn't see anything over the Thames in that video, nor in the other videos that are listed on the same page.
	__________________ My kids still love me.

13th November 2006, 06:33 AM	#3
John Jackson Muse Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 664	At around 54 seconds into the video there's a statue in the background of an angel with V-shaped wings. It looks like a spoof to me. Of course I could be seeing things though!
John Jackson Muse Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 664	__________________

13th November 2006, 06:42 AM	#4
Pipirr Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,433	The haze in the photographs looked like a camera artifact. It certainly didn't look like an angel.
Pipirr Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,433

13th November 2006, 06:47 AM	#6
fsol Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 1,064	I have a feeling that it is some kind of viral marketing thing for a new show. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a96qQ...elated&search=
fsol Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 1,064

13th November 2006, 06:43 AM	#5
FarSideOfTheMoon Critical Thinker Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 291	This doesn't quite look right to me either. Doesn't look natural. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a96qQ9-pQao

13th November 2006, 06:49 AM	#7
fsol Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 1,064	Originally Posted by fsol I have a feeling that it is some kind of viral marketing thing for a new show. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a96qQ...elated&search= Edit: bah! beaten to it
fsol Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 1,064

13th November 2006, 07:03 AM	#8
tmackean Thinker Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 232	I definitely wouldn't rule out viral marketing. Actually, it fits really well. However it's normally pretty easy to spot a viral ploy, and there are enough sites and references out there to this dating back some time, that if it's an stunt, it's an ambitious and well-conceived one. Hardly worth it, I would have thought. The David Grant stuff could be viral, maybe, but I think some of the site devoted to this are genuine. Of course, that doesn't mean I think the Angel is genuine! Begs the question if anyone has REALLY heard of the 'Angel' before 2006? I certainly hadn't.
tmackean Thinker Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 232	Last edited by tmackean; 13th November 2006 at 07:10 AM. Reason: Grammar

13th November 2006, 07:13 AM	#9
case sensitive Critical Thinker Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 395	Is the Slovak reporter really who he say he is? Any slovaks around? It sure looks fake...
	__________________ "They actually became the Reptoid God's lunch." "I determined this from "lack of evidence." Antigray Have YOU found God yet? the priest asked. I didn't know he was hiding... Born 1976 in Sweden Died in medieval Europe

13th November 2006, 07:49 AM	#10
tmackean Thinker Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 232	Yes, the slovak stuff definitely looks a little fake. Is that meant to be the same day? David is wearing the same clothes. How would they have found out about that so quickly?! The videos are posted on YouTube by the webmaster of www.angelofthethames.com, so if it's a viral thing, then his site is part of it. It looks like the site has only been registered in the latter half of 2006, as has another connected site; www.angelonthethames.com, registered and run by someone else. Which once again begs the question; has anyone heard of this before 2006?
tmackean Thinker Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 232

13th November 2006, 07:53 AM	#11
fsol Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 1,064	Originally Posted by case sensitive Is the Slovak reporter really who he say he is? Any slovaks around? It sure looks fake... He doesn't exist according to google,what ever that's worth. And Slovak TV doesn't seem to have the same logo as on the video. http://www.stv.sk/ There is basically nothing a quick google pulls up that isn't connected to the angel on the thames website as far as I can see. Edit: If there were historical sightings Wouldn't you expect Wikipedia to have at least a stub on it? I can't find it on there.
fsol Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 1,064	Last edited by fsol; 13th November 2006 at 07:56 AM.

13th November 2006, 08:08 AM	#12
tmackean Thinker Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 232	OK, I'm calling it as it is. FAKE. I've done a little more research. Delved into the historical sightings. It bothered me that there seemed to be very little out there on the web. Several of the sites (remember, they all seem to have been started in the latter half of this year) link to a supposed etching, made in 1865 which documents a sighting of this apparition. Check it out here: http://www.angelofthethames.com/sightings.html In that hazy version, the angel contains an outline which could be some kind of holy light. In this sharper version, the Angel's outline appears a little ragged, like it's a shoddy cut and paste from another image. http://www.freewebs.com/jimiadamson/...nthethames.htm Sure enough, check out Wikipedia's entry on the Construction of the Thames Embankment: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:E...t_ILN_1865.jpg Same etching. No Angel. End of story!
tmackean Thinker Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 232

13th November 2006, 08:31 AM	#13
Starrman Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 1,171	The 'angel' can be seen in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAmzF...elated&search= At about 10 second in, it appears and then fades out, a little above and between the heads of the 2nd and 3rd person from the left of the screen. Looks added in to me.
	__________________ --------------------------------------------- Prayer has no place in the public schools, just like facts have no place in organized religion. --Superintendent Chalmers

13th November 2006, 08:46 AM	#14
Garrette Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 14,768	Originally Posted by John Jackson At around 54 seconds into the video there's a statue in the background of an angel with V-shaped wings. It looks like a spoof to me. Of course I could be seeing things though! I saw that the first time through and thought it was a statue on the opposite bank that the camera was only aimed at the once. I should be more careful in my observations. I call shenanigans.
	__________________ My kids still love me.

13th November 2006, 12:30 PM	#15
Maja Thinker Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 159	Originally Posted by case sensitive Is the Slovak reporter really who he say he is? Any slovaks around? It sure looks fake... I'm not Slovakian, but I am Slavic and I'm completely sure this reporter doesn't exist. The name Richardazmov Burriničhovna doesn't even remotely resemble a name from any real Slavic language (except for the prefixes -ov and -ovna, both of which are used wrong), and there is no reason a Slovakian TV show about London would open with a picture of St Basil's cathedral in Moscow.
Maja Thinker Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 159

13th November 2006, 01:51 PM	#16
Starthinker Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 5,011	Viral. Some game or show or game show will come of this. Just like the "giants" that were discovered last summer.
Starthinker Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 5,011	__________________ \|¦¦\|¦ \|¦\|\|\|\|¦\|\|\|¦\|\|¦¦\|¦\|\|\|\|\|\|\|¦\|¦¦¦¦\|¦¦¦¦\|\|¦\|¦\|¦¦\|¦ \|¦¦\|¦ He who doubts victory has already lost the battle. Below the navel there is neither religion nor truth.

13th November 2006, 02:54 PM	#17
Minarvia fading orb Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 2,224	Originally Posted by Starrman The 'angel' can be seen in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAmzF...elated&search= At about 10 second in, it appears and then fades out, a little above and between the heads of the 2nd and 3rd person from the left of the screen. Looks added in to me. Yeah, or it is a drop of moisture that got on the lens, as someone wrote in the reviews boxes a few comments down. It happens so fast that I can't believe anyone even THOUGHT to see something paranormal in that clip.
Minarvia fading orb Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 2,224

13th November 2006, 03:47 PM	#18
Big Les Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: UK Posts: 5,056	I've seen a fair few things floating in the Thames, but never an angel.

13th November 2006, 03:56 PM	#19
BillC Bazooka Joe Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 5,912	In the first clip, we see David Grant standing on the Thames embankment by Jubilee Gardens, you can see Waterloo Pier and the London Eye behind him. The Korean singers are on the South Bank upstream of Hungerford footbridge, you can see Charing Cross station behind them. This places them literally a few metres away from where David Grant was shown. Convenient, no, to have two film crews just a short distance apart when an angel appears? Either that, or the angel has appeared at exactly the same spot over the river, and on days which sport the very same weather. Equally convenient.
BillC Bazooka Joe Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 5,912	Last edited by BillC; 13th November 2006 at 03:58 PM. Reason: Correction: it's Waterloo Pier, not Festial Pier behind him.

13th November 2006, 04:54 PM	#20
fuelair Banned Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 58,581	It's the Thames, it's fog!!
fuelair Banned Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 58,581

14th November 2006, 01:13 AM	#21
tmackean Thinker Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 232	OK, so to summarise; * The Slovak footage is clearly false, negating the David Grant thing entirely. It's not STVs logo, the reporter has a made up name and the title picture is actually St. Basils in Moscow. * The Korean footage was filmed on the same spot, or very close by. Therefore, by implication, it was filmed at the same time. * Every website associated with this was registered in the second half of this year. * No references exist outside of these 5 or 6 new sites. * The Grant footage was posted on YouTube by www.angelofthethames.com. * www.angelofthethames.com contains a historical archive which prominently features an 1865 etching of the construction of the Thames Embankment. The Angel has been pasted onto the etching - the original image doesn't have it. * Many of the photographic images pasted online are CLEARLY produced using Photoshop filters - it's obvious in some shots, and just likely in others. * 'Richard Morris' is the chap in the period clothing who claims to be secretary of the club. The site was actually registered by a Richard Delingpole of Worcester. Mr Delingpole is one of the 'Worcester Re-enactors' - they re-enact civil war battles etc. This would give him access to period clothing such as that adorned by Mr Morris. Hmm... Is Richard Morris an invented personality? Perhaps - he's listed as 'Richard Morrison' on his own video titles! * Richard Delingpole is a graphic designer, and went to the Bournville school of art, which would give him familiarity with Photoshop, and the skills to pull of a spoof such as this. Debunked, I think. I wonder what they're promoting?
tmackean Thinker Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 232

14th November 2006, 01:21 AM	#22
Timble Muse Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 932	To quote from my twin on another message board: Quote: The story is posted to a forum on Global Angels, a child support charity website. (you'll habve to searche the forum for Ange of the Thames). Elsewhere on the forumabout a charity concert Quote: David Grant came on stage to welcome everyone, what a great ambassador he is for GA. Then Molly came on to talk about the "Step UP" campagne and we watched a video. David Grant is also one of the sponsors of the Charity
Timble Muse Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 932	Last edited by Timble; 14th November 2006 at 01:27 AM.

14th November 2006, 03:02 AM	#23
tmackean Thinker Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 232	'Global Angels' is one of the meta keywords in the page source. In fact, the Global Angels logo is the V shaped Angel. In some of the pictures in the little cluster of sites, it appears that the logo graphic itself has been used to produce the effect, albeit extensively filtered. The charity is planning a live acoustic event to promote the work they do and raise money at the London Eye.... by the banks of the Thames! One of the other keywords on the AngelOfTheThames site is '360'. The name of the music event is the '360 degree revolution in Kindness'. Now we know what they're promoting, too. Cool.
tmackean Thinker Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 232