Now Bruto, lets get back to your Bruto-nian truth... Paul was not in the spirit when he spoke about women, equality and sexuality.
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Brethren as mentioned earlier, I think the greatest hurdle for church
Christians is their belief system from church indocrination that
tells them that every word of Paul is the WORD OF GOD.
This is why I believe so many liberated Christians struggle and have
such difficulties, trying to mesh their lifestyle or liberated minds
with what they read Paul's words in the epistles. Sure some liberated
writers correct a few historical details (which is helpful) and some
try to expand definitions (which is also helpful) but when it comes
down to it, when you read Paul's opinion about sex and women, it just
doesn't mesh with LIBERATED CHRISTIANTY, much less SPIRITUAL SEX.
So brethren if you want to get over this hurdle the Lord has set
before you, I would say you have to get serious and then be
COURAGEOUS enough to go beyond. You have to understand in DEPTH that
Paul was speaking his own opinion and it was NOT the Lord that was
dictating anti-sex anti-woman dogma, but just Paul.
Paul was a tremedous leader, missionary and absolutely fearless in
getting out the gospel, but his letters to the early churches are not
to be worshipped as absolutely prophetic or absolutely the WORD of
God.
In his infamous I Corthinians 7 .....
[URL="http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1Cr/1Cr007.html#top"]http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1Cr/1Cr007.html#top[/URL]
Paul says, 1Cr 7:6 But I speak this by permission, and not of
commandment.
He says, he thinks he has permission to write his opinion, as it is
NOT a commandment of the Lord, and yet Paul's words have NOW become
the churches commandments to keep women down and to make sexuality
dirty and unspiritual.
So let me and YOU compile all the Paul verses that put down women and
put down sexuality. For when we do it, and you notice this anti-
sexual anti-female orientation of Paul, then surely you will see that
this is NOT the Lord speaking .... but just Paul and the Patriacrhy
and the CHURCH SYSTEM.
So away we go... I shall start with some of the ones off hand that I
can come up with, and then anyone that finds others can post them, so
we have a full compilation. Then study them, sincerely, search the
WORD...Jesus words, pray for wisdom and discernment, listen to the
Holy Spirit and DECIDE what is truth.
EQUALITY of the genders, or male domination ?
SEXUALITY is clean or dirty, spiritual or unspiritual ?
For I would say, after this type of real Bible study, the confusion
can disappear and liberated Christians can put their whole heart and
soul into sexuality, freedom and listening to the Lord and helping
others. Chrich christians have just got to rid themselves of the
false doctrines of the false church and get a firm foundation in the
real WORD.
So Here's some of Paul's words, and please do help in this Bible
study by adding what you read as well. Thanks.
1Cr 7:1 ¶ Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: [It is]
good for a man not to touch a woman. (Untrue.... the Lord created
women to be beautiful to the touch)
1Cr 7:9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is
better to marry than to burn. (Untrue.... Marriage of two souls is
helpful in serving the Lord, and our sex together is not just because
we can not contain.)
1Cr 7:33 But he that is married careth for the things that are of
the world, how he may please his wife. (Not true... two people that
love the Lord, can put Jesus first in their marriage so that it is
not a worldly marriage. Paul was not married and wanted everyone to
be like him ... single and celibate. Jesus gave no such commandment
except to just put the Lord FIRST. Married people can do this and
their marriage can be for the Lord and helpful to the Lord, even more
so than singles. Two are better than one)
1Ti 5:11 But the younger widows refuse: for when they have begun to
wax wanton against Christ, they will marry; 1Ti 5:12 Having
damnation, because they have cast off their first faith. (No Paul,
the Lord accepted anyone that loved him, refusing widows under the
age of sixty, is sexist and shows you have fear of their sexuality.
There is nothing wrong with sex and them getting married again, and
SERVING the LORD. We can not refuse widows or anyone that truly wants
to serve the LORD)
1Cr 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is
not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under
obedience, as also saith the law. (No the law does not say that,
Jesus did not say that. Women are told to speak up as they are equal
to men and need to speak when spoken through by the Lord. How else
can they prophesize. They are married to the Lord FORST and foremost
and so are FREE to serve Him and SPEAK UP.)
1Cr 14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their
husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
(Untrue, women or men can speak up in the congregation of the free
and liberated church. Husbands are not the teachers of women, the
Lord is, and together they can learn from HIM.)
Eph 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let
the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. (No, let them work
together and agree together with Him as their head)
1Cr 11:13 Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto
God uncovered? (Doesn't matter, Paul) 1Cr 11:14 Doth not even nature
itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto
him? (Not true, as the Nazarenes were told not to cut their hair.
Long hair, short hair, it matters not) 1Cr 11:15 But if a woman have
long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a
covering. 1Cr 11:16 But if any man seem to be contentious, we have
no such custom, neither the churches of God. (Exactly so women do NOT
have to cover their heads and cover their hair. Let it fly !!)
1Cr 11:4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered,
dishonoureth his head. (???????. Never read that one. Paul)
1Cr 11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head
uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she
were shaven. 1Cr 11:6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also
be SHORN: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let
her be covered. (What shave the heads of women that do not cover
their hair when prophesying. That's totally devoid and unChristian.
Let them dance and praise the Lord, wild and free and PROPHESY to the
congregation with their hair uncovered and natural...as unto the
Lord...as King David did. There is no difference between the genders.)
1Cr 11:8 For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man.
1Cr 11:9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman
for the man. (Untrue, they were created to be together and married
and ONE. Read Genesis Paul. It matters not who was created first, as
the first can be last.... and neither is to be subservient to the
other, only to the Lord their CREATOR.)
1Ti 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 1Ti 2:14 And Adam
was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the
transgression. (Not true, the man believing the lie is just as quilty
as the first one that believed the lie. BOTH were guilty. Women are
not the transgressors and the evil ones that bring down innocent men.
Women are not the ones to blame for sin enetering the world. What a
horrible thing to infer. That's Patriarchy and is a lie).
1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to TEACH, nor to usurp authority
over the man, but to be in silence. (That's a false doctrine Paul.
Women that learn from the Lord are required to teach what the Lord
has taught them. They are free not bound. And they can teach men,
that is not usurping any God Given authority that the Lord supposedly
ordained. There is no gender in the SPIRIT. Men do not have the right
to teach women simply because they are men or the husband.)
1Ti 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest
apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or
gold, or pearls, or costly array; (Untrue, the Lord never said this
or taught this. Women are free to dress or be undressed according to
the Spirit as much as men. King David danced nude, so can they. The
prophets prophesied nude, so can they. So whether without clothes or
with clothes, they are FREE. Whether with jewelry or without. it
matters not. What matters is their heart and love for the Lord.
[URL="http://www.geocities.com/davidjayjordan/PaulsDressCode.html"]http://www.geocities.com/davidjayjordan/PaulsDressCode.html[/URL] )
1Cr 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the
kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters,
nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with
mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor
extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
(Untrue Paul. The thief on the cross joined the Lord in Heaven....
none of us are righteous. Our rigtheousness is only HIM. We are
judged by our acceptance of Him as our saviour and nothing more,
except the love we have in our hearts and how much we have given to
others)
1Cr 6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without
the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own
body. (Sure flee fornication if it means sex to temple prostitutes of
evoid devilish religions, but Paul you are not talking about that,
but simply about sex between adults. And love making between adults
is not something we have to FLEE and be afraid of.)
1Cr 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy
Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
(Yes, our bodies are the temple of the Holy Ghost, but making love
with them does not stain them or make them dirty as you infer)
Eph 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let
it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; (Sounds like the
law and keeping the law, Paul. Who made up these rules of yours ?)
Eph 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which
are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. Eph 5:5 For this ye
know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who
is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of
God. (Not so, we all can have our sins and shortcomings, but none of
them keep us from the kingdom of heaven except denying CHRIST.
Keeping the law or your laws, does not get us into heaven. Most of
our forefathers had whores, or concubines, or multiple wifes, and
nobody has not sometimes spoken foolishly, even yourself included.)
And sex is not automatically a sin, but I am tired and shall retire
for now.
What other verses can you add to these that show that Paul was not
always speaking in the SPIRIT and TRUTH of the LORD ?
David
Typical of a religious fanatic.
