Question on the 90's militia movement and 911 truth

Hans

Philosopher
Hans
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May 10, 2007
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Can anyone direct me to a study of this subject? (That is if one was done) I was wondering how many of the older truth movement people were also part of the failed 90's militia movements?
 
I don't know of any studies on this and would be surprised if one existed, except perhaps in an FBI file. Some of the fringe radio hosts who had courted militia groups have also courted the 9/11 deniers because they know anything anti-government sells to these people. One of the best sources for current info on hate groups in the U.S. is the Southern Poverty Law Center.
 
Gravy said:
I don't know of any studies on this and would be surprised if one existed, except perhaps in an FBI file. Some of the fringe radio hosts who had courted militia groups have also courted the 9/11 deniers because they know anything anti-government sells to these people. One of the best sources for current info on hate groups in the U.S. is the Southern Poverty Law Center.
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Aren't they located in a building they won from the KKK in a lawsuit?
 
Thanks for the information

I've noted some similarities in the style of arguement, government perception, evidence dismissal and logic failures between these two groups of conspiracy believers. I would suspect that a number of the old militia believers have taken on 911 denial.
 
CptColumbo said:
Aren't they located in a building they won from the KKK in a lawsuit?
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I've never heard that but wouldn't be surprised. One of their most effective tactics has been to sue hate groups for monetary damages on behalf of the victims, which has resulted in those groups surrendering a lot of property.
 
Hans said:
Can anyone direct me to a study of this subject? (That is if one was done) I was wondering how many of the older truth movement people were also part of the failed 90's militia movements?
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One place worth looking is the Militia Watchdog Archive, hosted by the Anti-Defamation League. It covers the movement during its 'heyday' in the period 1995-2000.

Possibly the most interesting section is a look at a Militia 'truth' movie called Time is Running Out, if anyone wants to know where Alex Jones got his ideas from, this is the place to look.
 
Ever see how a twoofer responds to any mention of the Murrah bombing? Cause celbre of the militia movement. Waco? Militia is all over that. Ruby Ridge goes without saying.

The Organization is real, and they are still trying to figure out how to get people angry enough to overthrow the government. And have you noticed how many of the twoofers bring up Mossad as the real culprits?

I occassionally have direct dealings with John Trochmann. He is all on board with the inside-jobbers.

The twoofers, to me, smell a lot like what William Pierce called "useful idiots."

I would not be the least bit surprised if, when the government finishes with Korey Rowe, they find some militia connection.

Anybody out there remember Timothy McVeigh?
 
After LC:FC is released, the nationwide militia movement will come out of the wood work. Thousands of miltiamen armed with AR-15s and sawed off shot guns will march on Washington and demand the arrest of George Bush and Dick Cheney. The revolution will begin!!!!!!!!

..and it will end in 15 minutes.
 
Hans said:
Thanks for the information

I've noted some similarities in the style of arguement, government perception, evidence dismissal and logic failures between these two groups of conspiracy believers. I would suspect that a number of the old militia believers have taken on 911 denial.
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It's interesting that these far-right radio hosts champion conservative libertarian Republican Ron Paul, who has been the darling of the truth movement until he recently repudiated their claims. Paul has a history of pandering to far-right groups, including militia-types in the 1990's, as this blog points out: http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/search?q=Ron+Paul (see
"Ron Paul vs. the New World Order").
 
While entirely anecdotal, I would suspect the conspiracy movements of the 80s to be more closely associated.

Having been an active member of the various BBS/fidonet echos in the 80s, I recall reading how Reagan was going to suspend the constitution and implement martial law, and to a lesser degree with Bush 41(never believed any of it). Those folks seemed to disappear as people moved to usenet, CIS in the early/mid 90s and to fledgling web forums and IRC later in the 90s. At that point, it was Clinton who was going to suspend the constitution and declare martial law. I suspect those were somewhat more aligned with the militia movements, spurned on by Waco, Ruby Ridge, Elian and Mr Reno.

Of course now, we see 15 year olds claiming all sort of Mihop bs and they fully expect the constitution to be suspended and Bush declaring Martial law. Their rights to play PS3 shall not be infringed! Viva La Revolucion! ...and all that rot.
 
Looking around I see they won a building in 1987 from the United Klans of America (UKA) for being responsible in the lynching of Michael Donald, a nineteen year old black man. They couldn't come up the $7 million dollars awarded by a jury, and were forced to turn over their national headquarters to his mother who then sold it.

I think this was covered in a documentary on the History Channel, and that's where I remember it from.
 
Malamule said:
While entirely anecdotal, I would suspect the conspiracy movements of the 80s to be more closely associated.

Having been an active member of the various BBS/fidonet echos in the 80s, I recall reading how Reagan was going to suspend the constitution and implement martial law, and to a lesser degree with Bush 41(never believed any of it). Those folks seemed to disappear as people moved to usenet, CIS in the early/mid 90s and to fledgling web forums and IRC later in the 90s. At that point, it was Clinton who was going to suspend the constitution and declare martial law. I suspect those were somewhat more aligned with the militia movements, spurned on by Waco, Ruby Ridge, Elian and Mr Reno.
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Yep my view also Malamule, I too started on usenet or whatever the online thing was called when I was using a Apple II GS in the mid/late 80s.

This wacky stuff just seems to repeat over and over again. I remember clearly how Clinton was going to take over in a coup then Bush came along and they seamlessly switched to him doing the same thing.

Great stuff

Oh and from the link Gravy gave me a map to see who is who in hate - state by state

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/map/hate.jsp
 
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Itwas the white nationalists who led me to the 9/11 woo-woo sites in the first place. I had no doubts about what happened from the day I weatched on live tv as the towers fell. I did question what brain-dead stunt Rummy or Cheney might have pulled to leave us defenseless against this attack.

But I said on that day, and still maintain, that I have more reason to fear the white nationalists than the Arabs. I figured it might be worthwhile to see whether their reactions on thew web showed any rumblings that they might be trying to capitalize on the event.

Big and ugly as sin, they did. Tell me where the twoofers would be today with A. Jones, Darryl Bradford Smith or Eric Hufschmid.
 
Howdy Leftysergeant

I deliberately avoided the 911 conspiracy for a number of years, previous experience had shown that it takes a few years for all the questions to get asked and the answers researched. I spend/t most of my time debunking bad archaeology and history. Now that the hard work has been done I come occasionally to this board to see what had happened. (Thanks to all the good people who did the hard work)

I found the militia to be worrisome and considered them a real threat at the time. I see the truth movement as being far weaker and far, far away from taking the next step towards violence. I did see that potential in some of the militia groups-fortunately they have mostly faded away. I suspect the right wing militias will come back with the prossible election of a Democratic President next year.
 
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Wasn't our buddy MAGZ one of these right wing nuts? Remember he was
using links to NATIONAL VANGUARD - a neo nazi fringe group to buttress his
insane drivel about plane shooting missile into WTC and other such looney
tunes.
 
SLC's been linked a few times over at the National Vanguard forums by skinheads battling truthers. I suspect that those types are more likely to be into the Justin Raimondo flavor of 9-11 quackery, focused on the Israeli movers and the art students, rather than the CD and no-plane at the Pentagon theories.
 
Still, it remains white nationalist doctrine to keep people angry, and to destroy their confidence in government - any government, right or left. The only legitimate government they will ever recognize will be the one they set up after the RaHoWa. But they know they will never have the numbers they need. So they want to get some useful idiots on board.

That they have no clue how to tactfully recruit the no-planers and such to their side, they are off to a slow start.

Still, I am storing up ammo, just in case. Might even go to the next gun show and lay in another 500 rounds of 7.62x25. I still need to practice a bit with the CZ 52.
 
CptColumbo said:
Looking around I see they won a building in 1987 from the United Klans of America (UKA) for being responsible in the lynching of Michael Donald, a nineteen year old black man. They couldn't come up the $7 million dollars awarded by a jury, and were forced to turn over their national headquarters to his mother who then sold it.

I think this was covered in a documentary on the History Channel, and that's where I remember it from.
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That building was in Tuscaloosa County. The Southern Poverty Law Center/Klanwatch is in Montgomery.
 
leftysergeant said:
That they have no clue how to tactfully recruit the no-planers and such to their side, they are off to a slow start.
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Couldn't be simpler, just put the words '911 Truth' into the headers of their websites and Google will bring in all the Useful Idiots they need.

After all it seems to be about the level the 911 'truth' movement seems to have stalled at.

But then they never seem to have had a clear idea what they really wanted, first it was a fresh investigation, then impeachment of all and sundry and now they are thinking about revolution.

The militia bozos back in the 90's had it right, revolution, then a fair impeachment... followed by a first class hanging.
 
I am a newbie here,and might as well jump in:
The 9/11 kooks seem to be younger then the Militia kooks of the 90's; and their idea of "revolution" is posting crap on the Internet,as opposed to running around in the woods playing overage,overweight soldier like the Militia kooks did.
Similiar mentalities,just different ways of expressing themselves. Two different flavors of nuts,so to speak.
One major difference is that the Militia types tended to hate American pop culture whereas a lot of the 9/11 kooks seem to be immersed and obssesed by it. I wish I had a dime for every freaking "Matrix" reference I have seen by a Truther. At times I think that one of the main reasons they buy into this crap..rather then general stupidity...is that it allows them to see themselves as Neo fighing the evil establishment.
BTW I predict if the the Democrats take that White House in 2008,The Militia Movement will revive,and the weight of CT kookiness will migrate to the Right.
And I would not be surprised if a lot of the Truthers become as violently anti Democrat as they are Anti Bush. This is why I think some on the left who seem to want to somehow play up to the CT's are making a huge mistake.No matter who is in power the CT's will hate them.
 
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dudalb said:
One major difference is that the Militia types tended to hate American pop culture whereas a lot of the 9/11 kooks seem to be immersed and obssesed by it. I wish I had a dime for every freaking "Matrix" reference I have seen by a Truther. At times I think that one of the main reasons they buy into this crap..rather then general stupidity...is that it allows them to see themselves as New fighing the evil establishment.
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Exactly. The comparisons of Bush to Hitler are not to minimize the evil of the latter, or maximize the perceived evil of the former, but to make themselves look like the heroic folks who battled against the Nazis.

Welcome to the forum!
 
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