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Tags homosexuality , homophobia , bible

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Old 21st October 2007, 04:24 AM   #681
JetLeg
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This was not to the point that homosexuality actually is a choice, but that if it were, that could be the reason.
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Old 21st October 2007, 04:26 AM   #682
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Originally Posted by JetLeg View Post
This was not to the point that homosexuality actually is a choice, but that if it were, that could be the reason.
So the only way to be promiscuous is to dig guys?
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Old 21st October 2007, 04:39 AM   #683
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No, not the only way.

But a possible one.
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Old 21st October 2007, 04:40 AM   #684
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Originally Posted by Taffer View Post
I don't understand why you would think homosexuality is a "choice".
Actually, in the religious community, it is quiet known that homosexuality can be changed, if the person wants to.
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Old 21st October 2007, 04:44 AM   #685
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Originally Posted by JetLeg View Post
Actually, in the religious community, it is quiet known that homosexuality can be changed, if the person wants to.
But not in the real world.
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Old 21st October 2007, 04:46 AM   #686
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Originally Posted by JetLeg View Post
Actually, in the religious community, it is quiet known that homosexuality can be changed, if the person wants to.
Which is funny, because there is no evidence that that is really the case.
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Old 21st October 2007, 04:49 AM   #687
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Well, the religious community could not just make it up.

What reasons can it have???? In order to say that it is a myth, you need to explain what reasons must the religious community have to invent it.

Last edited by JetLeg; 21st October 2007 at 04:57 AM.
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Old 21st October 2007, 05:01 AM   #688
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Originally Posted by JetLeg View Post
Well, the religious community could not just make it up.
Yes it could.

Quote:
What reasons can it have????
Uhm... you don't think very well, do you?

The bible speaks bad about homosexuals. In order to keep your silly beliefs, you have to accept that homosexuality is a choice, or can be "made up".

Quote:
In order to say that it is a myth, you need to explain what reasons must the religious community have to invent it.
Actually, no, it merely has to be demonstrated that it is a myth, I.E., not true.

Science and modern psychiatry seem to demonstrate that it's not true.
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Old 21st October 2007, 05:04 AM   #689
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Originally Posted by Lonewulf View Post
Yes it could.


Uhm... you don't think very well, do you?

The bible speaks bad about homosexuals. In order to keep your silly beliefs, you have to accept that homosexuality is a choice, or can be "made up".


Actually, no, it merely has to be demonstrated that it is a myth, I.E., not true.

Science and modern psychiatry seem to demonstrate that it's not true.

Well, since we don't kill people that break the sabbath anymore, and don't kill children that disobey their parents, we could as easily go with the ban on homosexuality.

So your motive explanation is a bad one.

And you do need to explain the motives of a certain society, in order to prove that it believes in myths. Otherwise, it is simply mind-boggling how a certain society can believe in myths. And if you don't want your mind to boggle, then, you need an explanation of motives.

Last edited by JetLeg; 21st October 2007 at 05:10 AM.
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Old 21st October 2007, 05:15 AM   #690
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Originally Posted by JetLeg View Post
Well, since we don't kill people that break the sabbath anymore, and don't kill children that disobey their parents, we could as easily go with the ban on homosexuality.
You COULD, yes. People like me bring that up all the time.

Quote:
So your motive explanation is a bad one.
No it's not.

Quote:
And you do need to explain the motives of a certain society, in order to prove that it believes in myths. Otherwise, it is simply mind-boggling how a certain society can believe in myths. And if you don't want your mind to boggle, then, you need an explanation of motives.
My mind boggles over a lot of things when it comes to religion. That doesn't make the conclusions of delusionals like you any more rational.

To prove that it isn't a myth, you need facts and data to support it. This usually comes in the form of objective studies. If you have no data to present, then at best it's an educated opinion. At worst, which it seems to be for people like you, it's just a "feeling" that's not supported by any objective evidence whatsoever.

Sorry, but the real universe doesn't really care what you feel and what you don't. It'll go on without your consent the way it is. Sorry.
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Old 21st October 2007, 05:20 AM   #691
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Originally Posted by Lonewulf View Post
No it's not.
You said that a possible explanation of motives could be that lifting the ban from homosexuality would require the OT to be wrong in something. Then you agreed with my reasoning that it COULD be done without that, just as with sabbath-breaking.

Therefore your explanation of motives is a bad one.


Quote:
My mind boggles over a lot of things when it comes to religion. That doesn't make the decisions of delusionals like you any more rational.
If your mind boggles, when it comes to religion, how do you explain its existance??? Mind-boggling is not the best argument.
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Old 21st October 2007, 05:23 AM   #692
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Originally Posted by JetLeg View Post
Well, the religious community could not just make it up.

What reasons can it have???? In order to say that it is a myth, you need to explain what reasons must the religious community have to invent it.
Perhaps they need homosexuality to be a "choice" in order to make homosexuals seem bad?
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Old 21st October 2007, 05:24 AM   #693
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Taffer, why should they?
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Old 21st October 2007, 05:32 AM   #694
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Originally Posted by JetLeg View Post
You said that a possible explanation of motives could be that lifting the ban from homosexuality would require the OT to be wrong in something.
Anti-homosexual bigoted statements can be found in the NT, too.

Quote:
Then you agreed with my reasoning that it COULD be done without that, just as with sabbath-breaking.
It is. Just as slavery could. But theist delusionals still used the bible as an argument to defend slavery and their property. Why is that, Jetleg? Surely there was a good reason?

Quote:
Therefore your explanation of motives is a bad one.
See above.

Quote:
If your mind boggles, when it comes to religion, how do you explain its existance???
People are silly. To be more specific, rationality does not come easily to any animal, and humans are included.

Quote:
Mind-boggling is not the best argument.
Religion has no good arguments. Period.

"I felt God!" is the best (and only) argument you bring to the table. Well, I'll be damned! A human feels something is true, so therefore it MUST be true!

Whatever.
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Old 21st October 2007, 05:36 AM   #695
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Originally Posted by Lonewulf View Post
Anti-homosexual bigoted statements can be found in the NT, too.

It is. Just as slavery could. But theist delusionals still used the bible as an argument to defend slavery and their property. Why is that, Jetleg? Surely there was a good reason?
Well, it is understandable why would anyone want slaves. Slaves are comfortable. But what personal motives are for anti-gay ideas?

Quote:
See above.


People are silly. To be more specific, rationality does not come easily to any animal, and humans are included.
It comes back to that you think you are more rational than others, and that is arrogant. Don't be arrogant.

Last edited by JetLeg; 21st October 2007 at 05:39 AM.
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Old 21st October 2007, 05:48 AM   #696
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Originally Posted by JetLeg View Post
Taffer, why should they?
You obviously have not been reading this thread...
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Old 21st October 2007, 05:59 AM   #697
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Originally Posted by Jetlag
It comes back to that you think you are more rational than others, and that is arrogant. Don't be arrogant.
If you say that it's a rational decision, then back it up with evidence.

Otherwise, I'll keep being "arrogant", because I actually know I'm right.
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Old 21st October 2007, 06:00 AM   #698
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Being arrogant is wrong.
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Old 21st October 2007, 06:08 AM   #699
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Originally Posted by JetLeg View Post
Being arrogant is wrong.
Pot, meet kettle.
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Old 21st October 2007, 06:14 AM   #700
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??
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Old 21st October 2007, 06:17 AM   #701
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Originally Posted by Lonewulf View Post
Is it wrong when I start to feel like nominating Greatest I Am's posts?
It is not wrong as long as you do not touch any body parts.

Regards
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Old 21st October 2007, 06:21 AM   #702
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Originally Posted by JetLeg View Post
Well, the religious community could not just make it up.


Bwaaaahaaaaaahaaaaaaahaaaaaaa!

Time to change my sig. Well, it was for a long time, anyways - but this is just such a wonderful opportunity.
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Old 21st October 2007, 06:22 AM   #703
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Originally Posted by JetLeg View Post
Being arrogant is wrong.
Sure.

"I feel something is true, therefore it must be true!" is not arrogant.

"I wish to see evidence that your decision is rational before I decide it is" is arrogant.

Welcome to the logic of the delusional.

Please go back to your cave, troll.
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Old 21st October 2007, 06:24 AM   #704
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Originally Posted by Lonewulf View Post
Sure.

"I feel something is true, therefore it must be true!" is not arrogant.

"I wish to see evidence that your decision is rational before I decide it is" is arrogant.

Welcome to the logic of the delusional.

Please go back to your cave, troll.
You are implying that you are smarter than all the religious ones, aren't you?
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Old 21st October 2007, 06:27 AM   #705
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Originally Posted by JetLeg View Post
You are implying that you are smarter than all the religious ones, aren't you?
You are implying that you are smarter then all the non-religious ones, aren't you?
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Old 21st October 2007, 06:35 AM   #706
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Uhm... I admit that my position seems to boil down to "You are arrogant if you think I am wrong".

Last edited by JetLeg; 21st October 2007 at 06:42 AM.
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Old 21st October 2007, 06:41 AM   #707
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Originally Posted by JetLeg View Post
Well, the religious community could not just make it up.

...snip...
Of course "it" could - we know religions have been making things up for at least as long as recorded history.
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Old 21st October 2007, 06:44 AM   #708
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Of course "it" could - we know religions have been making things up for at least as long as recorded history.
What about the treatments that they say - work?
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Old 21st October 2007, 06:49 AM   #709
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Originally Posted by JetLeg View Post
Uhm... I admit that my position seems to boil down to "You are arrogant if you think I am wrong".
And you think that is reasonable, why?
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Old 21st October 2007, 06:50 AM   #710
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Originally Posted by JetLeg View Post
What about the treatments that they say - work?
Ever hear of false propaganda?
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Old 21st October 2007, 06:50 AM   #711
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Originally Posted by JetLeg View Post
What about the treatments that they say - work?
Have they done scientific, double blind, studies?
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Old 21st October 2007, 06:52 AM   #712
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Originally Posted by JetLeg View Post
What about the treatments that they say - work?
When you bring some evidence to the table about these working treatments there will be something to discuss until then all we have is your apparently second hand recounting of claims of a "them" that has for thousands of years been making things up.
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Old 21st October 2007, 06:55 AM   #713
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Originally Posted by Taffer View Post
Have they done scientific, double blind, studies?
If they did, and the result showed that their "treatments" were ineffective, their predictable rationale would be that the patient's desire to be "cured" wasn't strong enough.

These are the same fools who insist that prayer works, with the same lame excuses for the vast majority of cases for which it doesn't.
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Old 21st October 2007, 07:04 AM   #714
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Originally Posted by JetLeg View Post
Well, the religious community could not just make it up.

What reasons can it have???? In order to say that it is a myth, you need to explain what reasons must the religious community have to invent it.


Over 40% of the adult population in the U.S. believes that God created man in his present form sometime in the past 10,000 years. Close to 100,000,000 Americans are prepared to ignore mountains of evidence from virtually every branch of science in order to reaffirm their belief in a literal interpretation of the Bible. The religious community has a long and well-documented history of making things up. They made up this claim (homosexuals can be cured or otherwise turned straight by prayer and faith) in order to appear less intolerant. After all, having God condemn people to hell for innate qualities that cannot be changed makes God appear to be rather unjust.
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Old 21st October 2007, 07:05 AM   #715
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Originally Posted by Taffer View Post
You are implying that you are smarter then all the non-religious ones, aren't you?
ETA: sorry wrong qoute.

Last edited by Mid; 21st October 2007 at 07:11 AM.
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Old 21st October 2007, 07:10 AM   #716
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Originally Posted by Mid View Post
You do realise that not all relegous people think that homosexuality is wrong, don't you?
Um...yes?

ETA: Nothing to see here, move along...

Last edited by Taffer; 21st October 2007 at 07:15 AM.
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Old 21st October 2007, 07:11 AM   #717
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Originally Posted by bokonon View Post
These are the same fools who insist that prayer works, with the same lame excuses for the vast majority of cases for which it doesn't.
Hey, but it might be true!

Prayer might indeed work, only if you pray hard enough.


I agree that the consequences of accepting such a criteria of truth are bad -> a cult leader might say that if we think he is wrong, it is because we do not have enough faith, and then exploit all of us.

But, arguing that the consequences of accepting a certain criteria for truth are bad ones is not the same as proving that it is a bad criteria for truth.

It might be indeed that prayer works only if you have pure faith.
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Old 21st October 2007, 07:11 AM   #718
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Originally Posted by JetLeg View Post
You are implying that you are smarter than all the religious ones, aren't you?
You do realise that not all relegous people think that homosexuality is wrong, don't you?
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Old 21st October 2007, 07:12 AM   #719
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Originally Posted by Taffer View Post
Um...yes?
Sorry see edit above .
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Old 21st October 2007, 07:13 AM   #720
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Originally Posted by Ladewig View Post
They made up this claim (homosexuals can be cured or otherwise turned straight by prayer and faith) in order to appear less intolerant.
Ok, I agree that this is a good motivation for making things up.
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