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Tags power down , scott forbes

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Old 24th October 2007, 05:15 PM   #1
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A new debunk of the WTC "power down"

RKOwens4 has posted a new video on Youtube debunking the power down claim made by Scott Forbes. This is just the latest ( that I have seen) in a series of very well done videos explaining away the falacies of the trooth movement.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
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Old 24th October 2007, 05:23 PM   #2
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I PM'ed him asking him to come join us be he hasn't replied yet.
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Old 24th October 2007, 05:24 PM   #3
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The "power-down" is one of the dumbest claims I've seen.

Never mind the fact that it doesn't address the other 1 1/2 towers or WTC7...the mere notion that you can rig up even 50 floors of a 110 story building in 36 hours is bloody absurd.
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Old 24th October 2007, 05:43 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by CHF View Post
The "power-down" is one of the dumbest claims I've seen.

Never mind the fact that it doesn't address the other 1 1/2 towers or WTC7...the mere notion that you can rig up even 50 floors of a 110 story building in 36 hours is bloody absurd.
I've noticed that the "power down" isn't mentioned much, probably because it is so easily debunked, though I still see it brought up (usually to change the subject when a troother is losing a debate on a more popular subject)
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Old 24th October 2007, 05:47 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by JAStewart View Post
I PM'ed him asking him to come join us be he hasn't replied yet.
RKOwens4 really does a nice job on his videos, and he seems to know his subject matter and information sources quite well. I think he would feel right at home here at the jref forums.
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Old 24th October 2007, 05:51 PM   #6
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I've always wondered how Scott Forbes even came to his conclusion of half of the tower being powered down. Did he just make it up?
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Old 24th October 2007, 06:54 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by JAStewart View Post
I PM'ed him asking him to come join us be he hasn't replied yet.
Did you mention the cookies?
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Old 24th October 2007, 07:18 PM   #8
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I never really understood this argument or why bring it up. It's one of the most easiest ones to counter.

All you need is point to the J. Hudson building, say it's the largest steel frame building to be bought down by demos and it took 7 months to rig the empty building. After mentioning this, tell them the Twin Towers are 3 times that height.

The number of times I've seen this dumb argument bought up can be counted on one hand with a missing thumb.
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Old 24th October 2007, 07:19 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by qarnos View Post
Did you mention the cookies?
And the fat NWO paychecks?

Steve S.
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Old 24th October 2007, 07:58 PM   #10
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I have proof that whole upper 50 floors of the South Tower were NOT powered down during the timeframe specified by Scott Forbes. Maybe the floors he was on (giving him the benefit of the doubt), but certainly not all of them, much less the other two towers.

I'll post the evidence here when I have time.
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Old 24th October 2007, 08:05 PM   #11
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How could you down the upper half of South Tower without downing the TV transmitters?
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Old 24th October 2007, 08:09 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Mangoose View Post
I have proof that whole upper 50 floors of the South Tower were NOT powered down during the timeframe specified by Scott Forbes...
I'll post the evidence here when I have time.
Don't leave us hanging like that Fermat guy did...
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Old 24th October 2007, 08:10 PM   #13
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Having been involved in several power downs can tell you that it is major operation
Multiple emails are sent out warning everybody what is going on, equipment which
has to be powered must be isolated. That only one person, Scott Forbes, was aware
of this is totally amazing. What about the electricians? Considering that many of
the tenants were financial or securities which had 24 hour operations someone had to
know .
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Old 24th October 2007, 08:22 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by BenBurch View Post
How could you down the upper half of South Tower without downing the TV transmitters?
They were on the north tower.
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Old 24th October 2007, 08:25 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Gravy View Post
They were on the north tower.
So they were in the same tower as Windows To The World? Hard to keep straight which tower was which sometimes. Sorry!
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Old 24th October 2007, 09:11 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by BenBurch View Post
So they were in the same tower as Windows To The World? Hard to keep straight which tower was which sometimes. Sorry!
Yes, Windows On the World was in the north tower, the observation deck on the south.
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Old 24th October 2007, 10:17 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Mangoose View Post
I have proof that whole upper 50 floors of the South Tower were NOT powered down during the timeframe specified by Scott Forbes. Maybe the floors he was on (giving him the benefit of the doubt), but certainly not all of them, much less the other two towers.

I'll post the evidence here when I have time.
Part of the evidence he presents (briefly) in the video shows the towers well illuminated during the time in question.
I have to admit that I was(shamelessly ) putting in a plug for RKOwens4, though. My impression is that he puts a lot of research into finding those obscure and forgotten shots that put the subject at hand to rest.
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Old 24th October 2007, 11:11 PM   #18
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Old Tiger Club: I don't think RKOwens is necessarily claiming that the shot of the lit WTC was taken that weekend. I have tried to find photos of the period in question and haven't found any confirmed examples yet.
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Old 24th October 2007, 11:14 PM   #19
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I think the point he was making was that if, for some reason, half of a tower was dark, there would be pictures, as it would have been unusual.
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Old 24th October 2007, 11:29 PM   #20
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Okay, here is what I found.

There are at least two witnesses who recall the Observation Deck being open (with power) during the same time-frame that Scott Forbes claims the upper half of WTC2 was powered down.

One website has a personal account by Melissa Papke who relates her visit to the Observation Deck on that "power-down" weekend (9/8/01). She visited the WTC with her friends late in the day, after the last ferry to the Statue of Liberty had departed (i.e. squarely within the period Scott Forbes placed the power downs). She related this: "Brian held my hands in his and stared into my eyes trying to keep me calm as the express elevator climbed and climbed to the observation deck on the 107th floor. We walked around, looked through the telescopes, watched a movie on the history of the buildings, and even pressed a couple of commemorative pennies in one of those little machines". Clearly, there was power on the 107th Floor at that time.

Another blog presents this photo of a ticket to the Observation Deck during the very time that Forbes claims there was no power to that part of the building:





Also, there was a public free outdoor festival at 7:00 pm on 9/8/2001 in the World Trade Center Plaza between the two buildings (New York Times, September 7, 2001, E-3), featuring the Twyla Tharp dance troupe. So if there was a power down and massive preparation for building demolition, it would've been in the midst of this public event.

I still would love to see a photo of the buildings at night on 9/8/01 as that would clearly show if any floors, and which floors, experienced a shut-down of power.
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Old 25th October 2007, 01:49 AM   #21
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You might look again at the Naudet film. They kept referring to the towers as a back ground, with time stamps.
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Old 25th October 2007, 02:36 AM   #22
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To concur with Mangoose

My friends were up the towers during this time, Scott Forbes has been given the oppurtunity to modify his claim to only the floors he was on but he fails. He is a woo and is lying. He goes to truther meetings in the UK and has done another interview for AJ recently even though it is claimed he is keeping his head down because he is being harrassed at work.
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Old 25th October 2007, 07:13 AM   #23
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Exclamation

Originally Posted by Mangoose View Post
Okay, here is what I found.

There are at least two witnesses who recall the Observation Deck being open (with power) during the same time-frame that Scott Forbes claims the upper half of WTC2 was powered down....
NOMINATED!

What great physical evidence.

You rock!
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Old 25th October 2007, 07:24 AM   #24
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Even though the powerdown isn't a good argument to begin with, it's rather interesting that we now have evidence proving that once again, the 9/11 deniers are using fraudulent sources.
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Old 25th October 2007, 07:35 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by MarkyX View Post
Even though the powerdown isn't a good argument to begin with, it's rather interesting that we now have evidence proving that once again, the 9/11 deniers are using fraudulent sources.
If one of them told me it was a sunny day, I'd have to look outside first.
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Old 25th October 2007, 08:11 AM   #26
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Thanks Benburch!

Originally Posted by leftysergeant
You might look again at the Naudet film. They kept referring to the towers as a back ground, with time stamps.

I don't recall seeing time stamps on the film themselves, and I just checked the 9/11 DVD and again I don't see any video the towers on the evening of 9/8/01. The wonderful shot of them lit at night at 20:27 was dated to 9/3/01. Then there is a shot across the water that appears at 22:08, but it is undated though it appears immediately before 9/11/01, and I suspect it might be stock footage.
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Old 25th October 2007, 08:20 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by njslim View Post
Having been involved in several power downs can tell you that it is major operation
Multiple emails are sent out warning everybody what is going on, equipment which
has to be powered must be isolated. That only one person, Scott Forbes, was aware
of this is totally amazing. What about the electricians? Considering that many of
the tenants were financial or securities which had 24 hour operations someone had to
know .


Njslim is right on the money here. I work in an office building much smaller than the towers, but any power downs (even for just a single floor) require multiple notifications & sign offs by anyone that may be affected. We even have extra people on call during those times just in case there are problems. The paper trail for a multi-floor power down would be enormous. The fact that Mr. Forbes has been unable to produce any documentation of such speaks volumes more than his claims.
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Old 25th October 2007, 12:44 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by njslim View Post
Having been involved in several power downs can tell you that it is major operation
Multiple emails are sent out warning everybody what is going on, equipment which
has to be powered must be isolated. That only one person, Scott Forbes, was aware
of this is totally amazing. What about the electricians? Considering that many of
the tenants were financial or securities which had 24 hour operations someone had to
know .
What he said. I managed 24x7 IT ops in 4 big buildings in Manhattan over the years. Just doing paperwork to get to the loading docks any time or for freight elevator access off hours gets lots of people involved. There are always other trades around and everyone notices strangers, if only to protect union turf. Even powered-down, nobody gets into IT areas without a tenant's IT person on hand. tenants have their own alarm services that don't depend on the building security system
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Old 25th October 2007, 12:47 PM   #29
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Any any power outage of a major Bank's IT infrastructure would require the bank to transfer operations to its emergency site. No way you can shut down a bank even on a weekend.
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Old 25th October 2007, 01:54 PM   #30
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I seem to remember hearing and seeing a video that was filmed that weekend, clearly showing lights on the top floors of the South Tower. I think it was a music video, but I can't remember for sure.
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Old 25th October 2007, 02:19 PM   #31
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This is absurd - nothing has been "debunked" in that video.

For starters, there are only a handful of workers who are especially sensitive to a power-down over the weekend, some of which are server administrators (or DBAs). On top of that, it's rather convenient to say "nobody else reported it" when 3,000 people died that day, a good portion of which worked in the twin towers.

Unless you have an eyewitness offering eyewitness testimony that directly contradicts the claims of Scott Forbes, you've debunked precisely nothing.
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Old 25th October 2007, 02:22 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by nicepants View Post
Njslim is right on the money here. I work in an office building much smaller than the towers, but any power downs (even for just a single floor) require multiple notifications & sign offs by anyone that may be affected. We even have extra people on call during those times just in case there are problems. The paper trail for a multi-floor power down would be enormous. The fact that Mr. Forbes has been unable to produce any documentation of such speaks volumes more than his claims.

That's a convenient point of view, considering the man's office was reduced to dust & small debris. Do you think people carry paperwork like that in their wallets?
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Old 25th October 2007, 02:25 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by deep44 View Post
Unless you have an eyewitness offering eyewitness testimony that directly contradicts the claims of Scott Forbes, you've debunked precisely nothing.
We've got people who saw the power being ON when Forbes said it was OFF.

Does that count?
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Old 25th October 2007, 02:26 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by deep44 View Post
That's a convenient point of view, considering the man's office was reduced to dust & small debris. Do you think people carry paperwork like that in their wallets?
I'm sure they back up their emails, disaster recovery is important at this level of IT infrastructure.

While I agree that this has hardly been 'debunked' it has at least been shown to be barely credible and in need of some corroboration.
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Old 25th October 2007, 02:29 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by e^n View Post
I'm sure they back up their emails, disaster recovery is important at this level of IT infrastructure.

While I agree that this has hardly been 'debunked' it has at least been shown to be barely credible and in need of some corroboration.

Seriously, an email proves nothing. Even if he did produce one, not even I would acknowledge that it proves anything one way or the other. Give me about 10 minutes and I could paste an email (with full headers) into this thread that shows GWB inviting me to go golfing with him & Saddam in Antarctica next Tuesday.
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Old 25th October 2007, 02:30 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by CHF View Post
We've got people who saw the power being ON when Forbes said it was OFF.

Does that count?

Who are these people? I don't see any names... plus, keep in mind, backup power is usually used for a subset of lights (which are relatively low power), so I'd be interested in hearing exactly how they came to the conclusion that the power was on.
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Old 25th October 2007, 02:32 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by deep44 View Post
Seriously, an email proves nothing. Even if he did produce one, not even I would acknowledge that it proves anything one way or the other. Give me about 10 minutes and I could paste an email (with full headers) into this thread that shows GWB inviting me to go golfing with him & Saddam in Antarctica next Tuesday.
Indeed you could, and not only would that email contain the source email address and therefore a name to investigate, it would also reveal IP addresses and server software. Do you happen to know what internal version of which MTA people in the towers used?

Faking an email is one thing, reliably faking an email is another.
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Old 25th October 2007, 02:33 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by deep44 View Post
Unless you have an eyewitness offering eyewitness testimony that directly contradicts the claims of Scott Forbes, you've debunked precisely nothing.
Only one man claiming a power down doesn't prove anything either. Would have been kind of obvious, no? Half of the South Tower left in dark. And yet, noone of the millions of people in Manhattan or the other 4 burroughs that weekend talk about it.
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Old 25th October 2007, 02:36 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by deep44 View Post
This is absurd - nothing has been "debunked" in that video.

For starters, there are only a handful of workers who are especially sensitive to a power-down over the weekend, some of which are server administrators (or DBAs). On top of that, it's rather convenient to say "nobody else reported it" when 3,000 people died that day, a good portion of which worked in the twin towers.

Unless you have an eyewitness offering eyewitness testimony that directly contradicts the claims of Scott Forbes, you've debunked precisely nothing.
Tell me again? What was the purpose of this "power down" of half (or less) of one tower?
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Old 25th October 2007, 02:38 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by deep44 View Post
Who are these people? I don't see any names... plus, keep in mind, backup power is usually used for a subset of lights (which are relatively low power), so I'd be interested in hearing exactly how they came to the conclusion that the power was on.
My friends were up the observation deck that sunday, you need more than lights for that, I have been up there also and I know what they had up there. Strange not one person has come along and said the observation deck was closed that weekend?

It was a very popular attraction when i was there, must have been thousands a day.

Unless you are calling me and my friends liars then there is your proof he is lying about a total power down above the 50th floor (his actual claim).
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