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Tags 911 conspiracy theory , thermite , wtc1 , wtc2

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Old 5th April 2009, 03:12 PM   #321
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Originally Posted by Galileo View Post
Wowza! You should get a job as a science journal referee! The JREF forum is not a legitimate science jourmal, too bad for you.
No sir, but it was you who said:

Originally Posted by Galileo View Post
Argue the evidence.
I can't help it if you are incapable of doing the same thing.
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Old 5th April 2009, 03:15 PM   #322
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Originally Posted by Pardalis View Post
Then something must have went wrong in the cloning, 'cause this Galileo ain't communicating intelligently.

Why don't you address the many points raised by Sunstealer? Afraid of criticism?
I waiting for him to puiblish in a legitimate scientific journal. He has hab 8 years to do it. He would have to prove that he is even qualified to discuss these topics. Until then, I will put him on ignore.
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Old 5th April 2009, 03:16 PM   #323
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That's a "yes" then.
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Old 5th April 2009, 03:17 PM   #324
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Originally Posted by Galileo View Post
I waiting for him to puiblish in a legitimate scientific journal. He has hab 8 years to do it. He would have to prove that he is even qualified to discuss these topics. Until then, I will put him on ignore.
Obviously better qualified than you. Just like a truther....ignor the truth.

Macky, Sunstealer and I should write this thread up as a paper and publish it in the "pay-to-play scientific journal" like Dr. Jones did.
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Old 5th April 2009, 03:21 PM   #325
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Originally Posted by Pardalis View Post
Galileo ain't communicating intelligently.

Why don't you address the many points raised by Sunstealer? Afraid of criticism?
Galileo doesnt understand what Sunstealer has been saying. Its over his head because its not jobby job speak.
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Old 5th April 2009, 03:21 PM   #326
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Originally Posted by 911files View Post
Macky, Sunstealer and I should write this thread up as a paper and publish it in the "pay-to-play scientific journal" like Dr. Jones did.
Now that would be worth something...just to see the look on Jones' Face.

TAM
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Old 5th April 2009, 03:28 PM   #327
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Originally Posted by RedIbis View Post
Dr. Jones has posted some prescient follow up notes. He must be reading jref:


http://911blogger.com/node/19761?page=1
Remember, Steven Jones dissembles poorly.
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Old 5th April 2009, 03:32 PM   #328
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Originally Posted by GregoryUrich View Post
I'm wondering about the grey layer. The only information they provide is that it is primarily iron oxide...but it sure doesn't look like rust. I have checked out some rust inhibitors that contain (you guessed it) iron oxide. Gray metal primer is my guess.
It's definitely MIO - Micaceous Iron Oxide. Have a look - the data sheets even give 150 and 325 mesh which fits the sort of size flakes that we see in the paper.

http://lamoxindustries.com/products.html
http://www.cmmp-france.com/ironorgb.html
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Old 5th April 2009, 03:38 PM   #329
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Originally Posted by Galileo View Post
Any moron can post drivel on a conspiracy website. Go get your wacky theories peer reviewed and published by an international team of independent scientists.
You first, And no jones didn't. Again. Its a pay to play vanity journal published from a third world country where they worship cows. With seven other truthers (no not scientists) simply nodding their heads in agreement. The control samples are absent. Thus, pseudoscience. And theres no valid chain of custody for the samples to begin with. Just dust from Manhattan allegedly collected by your average joe/jane citizen. Anyone can draw circles on a satellite image and claim whatever it is they allegedly collected came from there. It could be brake lining dust for all we know, Sorry you lose. But you should be used to living the life of a loser by now.
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Old 5th April 2009, 03:39 PM   #330
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Originally Posted by GregoryUrich View Post
Hi Ryan,

You may have already seen it but Dr. Greening calculated 10 degress C. He didn't show his work.
I didn't see it, but there are a lot of assumptions in play, so I'd say his result and mine are in acceptable agreement. Thanks for checking.

Science demands cross-checking. So far, the outlier is, envelope please, Dr. Jones. Bet you didn't see that coming.
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Old 5th April 2009, 03:39 PM   #331
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Originally Posted by Galileo View Post
I waiting for him to puiblish in a legitimate scientific journal. He has hab 8 years to do it. He would have to prove that he is even qualified to discuss these topics. Until then, I will put him on ignore.
Astonishing. Truthers just keep on surprising me (for the worse unfortunately). I guess if the facts and the truth aren't what people want to hear then they just ignore it by putting people on ignore. What is it with these people? You take the time to read a paper, the paper doesn't add up, you use your knowledge and experience to work out exactly what the material is and they don't want to know. Instead of debating they chuck out a nonsense post like this.

It's a damn good job that we don't have these sorts of people working as engineers - we'd end up with some shoddy crap that at best didn't work. Imagine them designing aircraft /shudder.
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Old 5th April 2009, 03:41 PM   #332
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Originally Posted by 911files View Post
Macky, Sunstealer and I should write this thread up as a paper and publish it in the "pay-to-play scientific journal" like Dr. Jones did.
I respectfully decline, for reasons I stated the first time this came up. The problem is that Bentham is either incapable of or uninterested in rejecting false papers of this kind. I see no reason to pay them for the privilege of explaining why they're idiots with an illustration. Nor do I want such a paper on my C.V. The way to deal with this, once no reasonable doubt remains, is to repudiate and then ignore.

Bentham has made its bed, and it now shall sleep in it.
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Old 5th April 2009, 03:44 PM   #333
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Originally Posted by Sunstealer View Post
Astonishing. Truthers just keep on surprising me (for the worse unfortunately). I guess if the facts and the truth aren't what people want to hear then they just ignore it by putting people on ignore. What is it with these people? You take the time to read a paper, the paper doesn't add up, you use your knowledge and experience to work out exactly what the material is and they don't want to know. Instead of debating they chuck out a nonsense post like this.

It's a damn good job that we don't have these sorts of people working as engineers - we'd end up with some shoddy crap that at best didn't work. Imagine them designing aircraft /shudder.
Amen! I recall a project I worked three months on at DuPont and reached a point of impasse. I emailed our statistics Ph.D. down in Round Rock stating my problem and asking for his input. A few weeks later, I got a rather involved and detailed response telling me how what I was attempting to do was impossible. I guess I should have waited for his reply, because a few days after sending him the initial email I arrived at a solution and we already had the new process in production. So much for the non-engineer Ph.D's
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Old 5th April 2009, 03:48 PM   #334
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Originally Posted by Galileo View Post
I waiting for him to puiblish in a legitimate scientific journal. He has hab 8 years to do it. He would have to prove that he is even qualified to discuss these topics. Until then, I will put him on ignore.
Because thats all you have. A finger in each ear with both eyes closed. Sorry to rain down on your world but your horse left the gate with four broken legs. This junk was debunked almost two years ago.
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Old 5th April 2009, 03:52 PM   #335
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Originally Posted by R.Mackey View Post
I respectfully decline, for reasons I stated the first time this came up. The problem is that Bentham is either incapable of or uninterested in rejecting false papers of this kind. I see no reason to pay them for the privilege of explaining why they're idiots with an illustration. Nor do I want such a paper on my C.V. The way to deal with this, once no reasonable doubt remains, is to repudiate and then ignore.

Bentham has made its bed, and it now shall sleep in it.
I was just teasing Mackey. I don't have cash to waste on publishing something in the funny papers. Darn, I won't even go debate P4T/CIT nonsense and it is free.
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Old 5th April 2009, 03:58 PM   #336
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Jones is over at 911Blogger saying that the paper passed internal review at BYU, but they wouldn't let the one guy take billing as he should have. He should have been before Herritt. He also says the new head of Physics at BYU read this paper and is convinced explosives were at the site.
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Old 5th April 2009, 03:59 PM   #337
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Originally Posted by Sunstealer View Post
No it's most definitely not. R. Mackey and myself are showing you that it's definitely not thermite. I don't have time to spend days on this but there are numerous problems with this paper and I think it would take me 1-2 weeks to actually go through it and scientifically point out their flaws. How much Kaolin is in thermite Galileo?
YAWN...your "armchair science" is becoming tiresome. May I suggest you contact Professor Jones, request a sample of the red chips and TEST them in support of your "it was red paint" hypothesis.
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Old 5th April 2009, 04:06 PM   #338
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Originally Posted by thewholesoul View Post
YAWN...your "armchair science" is becoming tiresome. May I suggest you contact Professor Jones, request a sample of the red chips and TEST them in support of your "it was red paint" hypothesis.
Ill call your yawn and raise you a ho hum **cough** chain of custody **cough**
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Old 5th April 2009, 04:09 PM   #339
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Sheafs of paper pass review at byu.. Yup. thats paper alright

Originally Posted by boloboffin View Post
Jones is over at 911Blogger saying that the paper passed internal review at BYU, but they wouldn't let the one guy take billing as he should have. He should have been before Herritt. He also says the new head of Physics at BYU read this paper and is convinced explosives were at the site.
That was before he wrote anything on it.

Oh but wait!! Now he using BYU as a fallback? I thought Bentham was his gold standard? Apparently he realises Bentham = ************ vanity press.
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Donít get me lolín off my chesterfield dude.

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Old 5th April 2009, 04:10 PM   #340
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Originally Posted by thewholesoul View Post
YAWN...your "armchair science" is becoming tiresome. May I suggest you contact Professor Jones, request a sample of the red chips and TEST them in support of your "it was red paint" hypothesis.
yah, like Jones is going to give his samples to anyone.

Once again, I have Olbermann on line one, and Rachel Maddow on line 2. Both would give their genitalia to see Bush hang, so tell Jones to send it to them.

TAM

edit: Then again, how much would it take to burn a little thermite, mix i with some of his sample, and then give it to someone else to analyze. Think he is above doing so? Think again.

TAM

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Old 5th April 2009, 04:13 PM   #341
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Originally Posted by thewholesoul View Post
YAWN...your "armchair science" is becoming tiresome. May I suggest you contact Professor Jones, request a sample of the red chips and TEST them in support of your "it was red paint" hypothesis.
"Armchair science" is not the word for it, "real world science" is more like it. Engineers take the "pie-in-the-sky" daydreaming of Ph.D's like Jones and make them work in the real world. We are asked (that is how we make a living) to take papers and ideas as presented and see if they stand up to real world application. Dr. Jones's presentation is not one I would take to my engineering/production manager for consideration.
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Old 5th April 2009, 04:13 PM   #342
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I tell you what. Here is something they can do.

Take samples known to be from the collapses, with a proper chain of custody. Have them analyzed by independent scientists (you know, those without an agenda) and ask them if there is any thermite in them thar samples.

TAM
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Old 5th April 2009, 04:18 PM   #343
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sunstealer-

i have a question about what u said :
"http://www.scielo.org.ar/scielo.php?...pt=sci_arttext (Note: The Au is gold and you can ignore it, because it is the metallisation of the sample - you won't get any Fe or C (and I'm not sure whether the C is from the tape and they aren't too sure about it either), because it's a pure sample, however the Al, Si and O peaks and the characteristic of the spectra are identical. I'm certain that what they are looking at with regard to the plate-like structures is Kaolin Al2Si2O5(OH)4. Thermite does not contain Kaolin."

the aluminum in kaolin is not elemental. from what the article says:
Our observations show that the red material contains substantial
amounts of aluminum, iron and oxygen, mixed together
very finely. In the sample soaked in MEK, we observed
a clear migration and aggregation of the aluminum
away from other elements and determined that elemental
aluminum
and iron oxide must be present.

this is after the bath in MEK. does kaolin break apart in MEK to produce elemental aluminum?
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Old 5th April 2009, 04:19 PM   #344
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I am going to repeat myself as many times as it takes. Someone please get from Dr. Jones or another source, a control sample (thermite) spectra (raw) that I can compare to the spectra of the "flakes". That will resolve the matter of whether or not they are thermite. Pretty simple really. Maybe that is why Dr. Jones did not submit such control sample spectra.
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Old 5th April 2009, 04:21 PM   #345
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Originally Posted by Galileo View Post
Any moron can post drivel on a conspiracy website. Go get your wacky theories peer reviewed and published by an international team of independent scientists.
You got the moron right, Dr Jones is a moron and the other authors are his underlings that make them sub-morons.

You presented a paper by morons who had to pay to publish their failed ideas.


Originally Posted by thewholesoul View Post
YAWN...your "armchair science" is becoming tiresome. May I suggest you contact Professor Jones, request a sample of the red chips and TEST them in support of your "it was red paint" hypothesis.
You missed the point, how do you fail to read and comprehend easy stuff?

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Old 5th April 2009, 04:31 PM   #346
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Originally Posted by thewholesoul View Post
YAWN...your "armchair science" is becoming tiresome. May I suggest you contact Professor Jones, request a sample of the red chips and TEST them in support of your "it was red paint" hypothesis.
It's not armchair science at all. I clearly show the link between the EDS data, the structure of the platelets and the link to Kaolin. I've provided that here and there is no doubt. You can also clearly see the Fe2O3 particles embedded in this material (I've yet to look at binders. That's red paint, which is what we see on the sample

I've also shown directly that the grey layer is MIO.

You see that grey layer had me foxed. I couldn't work out why the grey layer wasn't red because the EDS data clearly shows an iron oxide and I've got good experience with steel and rust. I initially thought that Jones et al had accidentally mis-labled the layers, which is easily done. I know cos I've done it in the past!

So I had another look at the macro-photographs and the grey layer is actually very metallic looking so I thought that maybe this was actually rust that spalled off and had some paint attached. The SEM photo of the layer just looked wrong for rust. I was stumped. So I decided to have a quick look for corrosion protection and came across this MIO, which is very widely used on structural steel. What I didn't have was a SEM photo or any size in which to compare that to the Jones chip. It could have been something completely different and not in anyway like the grey layer on the chip but nope, it's exactly the same.

A tiny individual platelet of MIO from an anti-corrosion material with some red pain adhering to it. It fits and what's more I've shown how I got to that conclusion by showing people the evidence in my posts.

Whilst I don't want to big myself up, this is part and parcel of my profession. Failure Investigation is a big part of it and we often have to identify materials and failure mechanisms using the sorts of tools Jones has used. I've done the same thing as I would do at work.

I even went off a tangent thinking that the grey layer was concrete or mortar because I thought the layers might have been mis-labeled. I went back and checked, realised the error and started to look in more detail at the red layer. I suspected that Kaolin was present because the EDS data and the structure observed under the SEM points in that direction. What I then had to do was to make sure, that is why I linked to several sources that correlate with the EDS data and even better I got a high quality image of Kaolin which is identical to the Jones photos.

I doubt Jones would give me a sample because I'd would ultimately want to separate the two layers and subject them to XRD analysis which most likely would mean crushing the two samples to a powder. Still not sure if there is enough material to perform XRD, but that's what I would do. It would definitely clear everything up. Then again probably not because people will believe what they want to even when firm evidence is against them.

I note that not a single truther has been able to argue against the evidence I have shown. Instead they poo-poo it and talk about being published or calling it arm chair science etc, etc.

If I had to walk into a court of law tomorrow and give evidence I wouldn't sweat it at all because I've arrived at the right answer and can demonstrate that the right answer has been arrived at and therefore convince people. And yes I've had to give evidence in court before as a metallurgist and I was scared <rule 10>less.
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Old 5th April 2009, 04:32 PM   #347
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now if sunstealer is right and this is pain or thermite as jones claims, doesnt the authorities need to find out who painted this **** on the wtc and find out if there are more building around with the same kind of stuff on their steel. considering it reacts at 430C, seems to me it would be a huge fire safety issue!
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Old 5th April 2009, 04:36 PM   #348
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Originally Posted by Senenmut View Post
now if sunstealer is right and this is pain or thermite as jones claims, doesnt the authorities need to find out who painted this **** on the wtc and find out if there are more building around with the same kind of stuff on their steel. considering it reacts at 430C, seems to me it would be a huge fire safety issue!
Have any paper lying around in your house?

Guess what temperature it reacts at? And how much heat it puts out?

Once again, this reminds me of the joke papers crying about the dangers of oxidane... it kills tens of thousands every year, it comes out of the tailpipes of cars, it's found in over 99% of American homes, yet nobody does anything about it! Won't you think of the children..!

In other words, this is what happens when a fraudster tries to scare a non-technical and gullible public. It's pretty darn easy to fool a lot of people if one has no scruples.

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Old 5th April 2009, 04:43 PM   #349
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Originally Posted by Senenmut View Post
now if sunstealer is right and this is pain or thermite as jones claims, doesnt the authorities need to find out who painted this **** on the wtc and find out if there are more building around with the same kind of stuff on their steel. considering it reacts at 430C, seems to me it would be a huge fire safety issue!
Better not go home, the contents of your house have much more energy than thermite. Oh noes, don't driver your car; the gasoline is about 10 times the energy of thermite. Better not drink the water either.

And don’t eat chocolate chip cookies they have more energy than gasoline. On noes…

You missed more, go back and read what he said about the coating on steel; go study coatings etc.
Dr Jones made up thermite and is backing in false evidence.

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Old 5th April 2009, 04:45 PM   #350
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XRD service $40 per sample - minimum sample size "half a grain of rice". http://attminerals.com/x-ray_diffraction_service.htm

There you go. No more expensive messing about on the SEM get it to them and they'll do it. They may have to use a microprobe, but hey they give you the graph and do the interpretation.

Does Jones have $40? Why doesn't he use a service like this and get absolute proof of thermite. It will give compounds not just elements. 40 lousy bucks and we could all go home.
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Old 5th April 2009, 04:48 PM   #351
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double post.
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Old 5th April 2009, 05:05 PM   #352
Senenmut
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Originally Posted by R.Mackey View Post
Have any paper lying around in your house?

Guess what temperature it reacts at? And how much heat it puts out?

Once again, this reminds me of the joke papers crying about the dangers of oxidane... it kills tens of thousands every year, it comes out of the tailpipes of cars, it's found in over 99% of American homes, yet nobody does anything about it! Won't you think of the children..!

In other words, this is what happens when a fraudster tries to scare a non-technical and gullible public. It's pretty darn easy to fool a lot of people if one has no scruples.
so the new york codes would be ok with this in buildings?? would it pass code if they knew it reacted at 430C? and if it reacts like thermite, it would be self propagating.
are u ok with this stuff on building?
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Old 5th April 2009, 05:12 PM   #353
boloboffin
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Originally Posted by Senenmut View Post
so the new york codes would be ok with this in buildings?? would it pass code if they knew it reacted at 430C? and if it reacts like thermite, it would be self propagating.
are u ok with this stuff on building?
I'm perfectly OK with paint in buildings. You know, paper reacts at far lower temperatures and releases more energy than thermite or Jones' paint chips. I'm OK with paper in buildings, too.
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Old 5th April 2009, 05:20 PM   #354
A W Smith
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Originally Posted by Senenmut View Post
so the new york codes would be ok with this in buildings?? would it pass code if they knew it reacted at 430C? and if it reacts like thermite, it would be self propagating.
are u ok with this stuff on building?
You are aware of course that the steel this paint is on also has fireproofing OVER the paint? Which is more than we can say about wall paneling, vinyl wall covering, woodwork or common office furniture and computer terminals for that matter.
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Old 5th April 2009, 05:39 PM   #355
ozeco41
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Originally Posted by boloboffin View Post
I'm perfectly OK with paint in buildings. You know, paper reacts at far lower temperatures and releases more energy than thermite or Jones' paint chips. I'm OK with paper in buildings, too.
And surely the relevant issue is "Why are we discussing thermate/ite?"

There are two obvious reasons:
  1. Because it was used in demolition; OR
  2. ..it is interesting even though it wasnt used
...#2 naturally including the case of "No Demolition".

Since it is:
  • A relatively simple matter to demonstrate that no demolition was needed to cause or assist the collapse of either WTC 1 or WTC 2;
  • AND only slightly more complicated to show that it was highly improbable that any demolition did assist the collapse
...should I assume that people here are discussion thermite/ate purely for interest?
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Old 5th April 2009, 05:48 PM   #356
RedIbis
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Originally Posted by R.Mackey View Post
Have any paper lying around in your house?

Guess what temperature it reacts at? And how much heat it puts out?

Once again, this reminds me of the joke papers crying about the dangers of oxidane... it kills tens of thousands every year, it comes out of the tailpipes of cars, it's found in over 99% of American homes, yet nobody does anything about it! Won't you think of the children..!

In other words, this is what happens when a fraudster tries to scare a non-technical and gullible public. It's pretty darn easy to fool a lot of people if one has no scruples.
Let's reset for a moment. So far I see that your objections are that you don't consider Bentham a legitimate journal and the red/gray chips are paint.

The paper addresses this issue and makes this important point:

Quote:
Correspondingly, the DSC tests demonstrate
the release of high enthalpy, actually exceeding that of
pure thermite. Furthermore, the energy is released over a
short period of time, shown by the narrowness of the peak in
Fig. (29). The post-DSC-test residue contains microspheres
in which the iron exceeds the oxygen content, implying that
at least some of the iron oxide has been reduced in the reaction.
If a paint were devised that incorporated these very
energetic materials, it would be highly dangerous when dry
and most unlikely to receive regulatory approval for building
use.
My bold. Are you prepared to say that the paint in the WTC would have behaved this way?
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Old 5th April 2009, 05:55 PM   #357
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Originally Posted by RedIbis View Post
The paper addresses this issue and makes this important point:

My bold. Are you prepared to say that the paint in the WTC would have behaved this way?
Gee, wait til old Red hears about Wall Paper!

By the way, just that quote shows what a joke this paper is. The whole sentence is pure speculation, but Truthers swallow it whole.

Anyway, Red, I'm pleased you are back, now that your fraud of a Doctor has been completely destroyed over the course of a couple of afternoons.
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Old 5th April 2009, 05:57 PM   #358
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Wow. According to you guys, there are no samples of structural steel that experienced temperatures hotter than 250 degrees Celsius. So these paint-on nanothermites never ignited.

More seriously, the primer is under the paint, and the paint is under the fireproofing, and even if the primer ignited, it's MICRONS thin and would have posed no threat to the columns AT ALL.

Jiminy.
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Old 5th April 2009, 06:29 PM   #359
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Quote:
In the sample soaked in MEK, we observed
a clear migration and aggregation of the aluminum
away from other elements and determined that elemental
aluminum
and iron oxide must be present.

this is after the bath in MEK. does kaolin break apart in MEK to produce elemental aluminum?
Did the aluminum also separate from the silicon? If "no" then "FAIL."
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Old 5th April 2009, 06:37 PM   #360
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Originally Posted by Senenmut View Post
sunstealer-

i have a question about what u said :
"http://www.scielo.org.ar/scielo.php?...pt=sci_arttext (Note: The Au is gold and you can ignore it, because it is the metallisation of the sample - you won't get any Fe or C (and I'm not sure whether the C is from the tape and they aren't too sure about it either), because it's a pure sample, however the Al, Si and O peaks and the characteristic of the spectra are identical. I'm certain that what they are looking at with regard to the plate-like structures is Kaolin Al2Si2O5(OH)4. Thermite does not contain Kaolin."

the aluminum in kaolin is not elemental. from what the article says:
Our observations show that the red material contains substantial
amounts of aluminum, iron and oxygen, mixed together
very finely. In the sample soaked in MEK, we observed
a clear migration and aggregation of the aluminum
away from other elements and determined that elemental
aluminum
and iron oxide must be present.

this is after the bath in MEK. does kaolin break apart in MEK to produce elemental aluminum?
Well I don't understand how they can claim elemental iron oxide - something is either an element or a compound.

Secondly
Quote:
Our observations show that the red material contains substantial amounts of aluminum, iron and oxygen, mixed together
very finely.
Is contradicted by the correctly stated analysis
Quote:
It is also shown that within the red layer there is an intimate mixing of the Fe-rich grains and Al/Si plate-like particles and that these particles are embedded in a carbon-rich matrix.
The analysis contradicts their "observations". Their own EDS data and SEM photos show this is not the case. What you have in Fig 8 is Fe[2O3 crystals (bright white) which are what makes the paint red amongst Kaolin which are the platelets. I also think there is a binder, because there are some other structures which haven't been analysed by EDS and the only explanation for the Carbon in the sample would be a (organic?) binder of some sort. They also say "these particles are embedded in a carbon-rich matrix", which looks to be correct.

It is extremely rare to find elements such as Si, Al, Fe in their elemental form when you are also finding substantial O peaks - all SEM experience tells you it's FeO, Fe203, Fe3O4, Al2O3, SiO2 that will be present . Bearing in mind the Si and Al are observed in the platelets and the platelets are one structure, then the platelets must consist of a compound with Al and Si in them. BSE image data also makes a strong link.

Similarly a SEM is more than capable of resolving particle size as we've seen 1Ķm resolutions, however, they haven't been able to find any Al particles (not always round because of different forming methods). They cloud over the issue and talk about Al2O3 on the surface - I'm surprised that they couldn't use a spot beam to determine this without measuring some of the surrounding material.

Your comment about Kaolin being soluble in MEK is very well made. Not many people would think of this as an explanation for observing Al/Si/O in plate form but seeing elemental Aluminium or Alumina after treatment with MEK. I did do a quick search a few hours ago, because that was my first thought but haven't had more time to look. I'm not familiar with MEK so I've no idea at present. If they did separate out Al particles then they should have put them in the bloody SEM! Or at lease have done some image analysis under an optical microscope to prove what they say. Their BSE analysis between O and Al after MEK treatment looks to correlate fine to me (Fig 15) and they make a small mistake in saying

Quote:
On the other hand, there also exist regions where the aluminum is concentrated but where the oxygen may not accompany it commensurately. To confirm and to quantify these observations,
If you look at the top rleft of the sample you can clearly see areas devoid of Si and Fe, but Al and O match up. This indicates Al2O3.

I'll look into the MEK/Kaolin issue. We may also see some separation due to the binder breaking down.

Anyway very late - A paper like this takes a week or two to properly digest especially when there is so much data and many claims.
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