ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories » 9/11 Conspiracy Theories
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags 911 conspiracy theory , thermite , wtc1 , wtc2

Closed Thread
Old 9th April 2009, 07:39 AM   #1201
twinstead
Penultimate Amazing
 
twinstead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,370
Originally Posted by lapman View Post
You got a car AND a mansion!?!?!?!? Oh, my handler's going to hear about this one! All I got was a Yugo and a hotel room. Sheeze.
Wow. I have underwear bigger than a Yugo.
__________________
You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your INFORMED opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant. -- Harlan Ellison
twinstead is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th April 2009, 08:19 AM   #1202
The Platypus
Graduate Poster
 
The Platypus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,883
Originally Posted by KreeL View Post
Interesting. Yet I wonder how many on your list are on the government payroll in some way, shape, or form? Gee - appears to be all of them. If you can't spell 'Perdue{sic}' then look up their government grants and educate yourself.
According to your cult, everyone, no matter who is it, that doesn't play along with your cult, is on the gov't payroll. All the vicitims, every expert that disagrees, every person on the internet that disagrees, even me. We are all accused constantly of being paid off by the gov't.

Paranoid delusions and ridiculous nonsense like that don't cut it and only proves that your cult is full it.

Last edited by The Platypus; 9th April 2009 at 08:23 AM. Reason: spelling
The Platypus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th April 2009, 08:26 AM   #1203
GlennB
Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian
 
GlennB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Arcadia, Greece
Posts: 25,379
Originally Posted by lapman View Post
You got a car AND a mansion!?!?!?!? Oh, my handler's going to hear about this one! All I got was a Yugo and a hotel room. Sheeze.
When I retired my deepest regret was losing the Black Helicopter.
GlennB is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th April 2009, 08:29 AM   #1204
bill smith
Philosopher
 
bill smith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 8,408
************************************************** *********************
''...The chips are tough despite being as thin as eggshells.''
'' Magnification reveals that the gray layers are composed of an opaque homogenous material,''

'' the chips are clearly a nano-engineered material with two types of extremely small particles, each highly consistent in shape and size, held in close stable proximity by a durable matrix which is laminated to a hard homogenous material.''

'' The particles are held in place and in close proximity to each other by the porous matrix.''
http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/t...chip_structure.
************************************************** ******

the gray layers are composed of an opaque homogenous material,''--Hoffman
'' while the gray only contains iron and oxygen--Danish Professor ''

Surely he iron would have oxidised over the last seven years ? Rusted away even. There has to be more to this ?
__________________
*Think WTC7 - You cannot make the four corners of a table fall together unless you cut the four legs together
*A kitchen table judgement on a world scale is enough
* To Citizens: 'There comes a time when silence is betrayal'

Last edited by bill smith; 9th April 2009 at 08:32 AM. Reason: spelling
bill smith is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th April 2009, 08:35 AM   #1205
metamars
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,207
Originally Posted by A W Smith View Post
Oh please dont leave out my new favorite
"nanofoil"
I've got another buzzword for your list: structural nanofoils, p. 6, here.


Quote:
Structural energetics. Formed in thick
sheets and rods, this material can bear loads
and act as structural members. The material
can be designed to ignite on impact or ignite
with high heat
for use in applications that
include missile skins and frames, shell casings,
and shape-charge liners.
(emphasis mine)

One can imagine fuel tanks incorporating thick nanofoils, which "ignite with high heat" on impact, giving a spectacular fireball. In this case, there'd be no need to mess with the buildings at all.
metamars is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th April 2009, 08:39 AM   #1206
Pardalis
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 25,817
Originally Posted by metamars View Post
One can imagine fuel tanks incorporating thick nanofoils, which "ignite with high heat" on impact
Why on earth would they do that?
Pardalis is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th April 2009, 08:39 AM   #1207
Sunstealer
Illuminator
 
Sunstealer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,128
Originally Posted by Senenmut View Post
i found this interesting when one talks about these chips. they can be multiple layers.....
im wondering if that pic sunstealer has been posting would be valid with these chips that are 6 layers deep!!!!
Firstly let me say that I appreciate the questions and you asking them. The real loonytunes have turned up spouting nonsense and debasing the thread so I'm now only going to read and reply to anything sensible and I'll look to correlate some of the data in the paper using my posts on this thread.

Are you talking about Fig 31 on page 28 with regard to the 6 layers. (It would help if you could be more specific and lay your posts out a bit better so I can answer quicker - thanks).

People have to realise that there are a number of different chips in Jones' paper, that they are not all the same, nor did they have the same testing performed on them.

Samples and the tests performed.

a-d - Photo - EDS red - EDS gray - 1m SEM analysis of red layer - BSE (one chip) - DSC
Unknown paint - MEK
Chip from sample 2 - Photo - EDS red - MEK - BSE
Chip Fig 31 - Photo - SEM photo - EDS gray layer (showing no Fe only C and O)

When you look at the data and compare the chips it's fair to say that samples a-d (c has a slightly different EDS red layer spectrum) are identical.

Chip from sample 2, we have no idea about because no detailed SEM work was performed and the EDS spectrum of the red layer (Fig 14) is completely different to samples a-d (Fig 7). They sidestep the issue by claiming S and Ca might be drywall contamination but don't show this. Therefore Sample 2 cannot be considered to be part of the same group as samples a-d.

Fig 31 chip. Again this is clearly different from the other samples - the optical photographs show this.

Quote:
An example is shown in Fig. (31) which shows significant Pb along with C, O, Fe, and Al and displays multiple red and gray layers.
No other sample in the paper is showing significant Pb (Lead) in the red layer yet this chip was not considered for any testing in the DSC or with MEK.

Look at Fig 33 - EDS of the "gray layer" of chip in Fig 31. Now compare that with Fig 6 spectra. Notice the massive difference? The "gray layer" shows no Fe and a substantially higher C peak. This means that the "gray layer" in this chip is not an iron oxide.

So we have two clear distinctions between samples a-d and chip in Fig 31 - Significant Pb in the red layer, significant C in the "gray layer" but without Fe

Therefore this chip cannot be classified as being part of the samples a-d. Subsequently it cannot be claimed to be thermite.

And that neatly answers your question with regard to the "at birth photo". That photo is exactly what it is - a direct comparison between NIST experiment and the 4 chip samples a-d in Jones' paper. Nothing else, it does not compare to anything else. The chip in Fig 31 with the multiple layers does not compare to anything else. This fact should set alarm bells ringing because the two cannot both be thermite yet Jones is claiming they are.

So why do we have these discrepancies?

Well when we look at the source of the samples and then how these chips where separated then it's not hard to see that not all of the particles/chips come from the same source, namely the WTC columns.

This is blindingly obvious to anyone who has more than 2 minutes to think about it. How many sources of paint or other material are there in this New York area? Dozens, hundreds, thousands, millions? Could some samples not be from the WTC but for example the Brooklyn bridge or other skyscrapers? Only if you start off with the premise that all of the chips in Jones' paper are thermite will you have a problem with realising that there are significant discrepancies between chips in the paper therefore one of them cannot be what Jones claims.

What Jones et al should have done before they even started any experiment was to characterize the chips they have from each of the different dust samples - give each one a label and then group them by visual characteristic. This would also help to determine exactly which chips should go for further testing. Instead it looks like they have picked identical chips for SEM/EDS/DSC. I would have wanted that chip with the multiple layers as part of the samples a-d without a shadow of a doubt because it's different.


Originally Posted by Senenmut View Post
from a controlled demo line of thought, maybe these were premade in sheets and one could just wrap multiple layers of this stuff depending upon the thickness of the steel one wished to attack??
I'll give you the courtesy you deserver and not be rude even though I find the idea, well lets say strange. The gray layer in the red chips is brittle in nature - you can tell this by looking at Fig4 and Fig 5 b) and d). It's not going to transport well and certainly would not be able to be rolled up without cracking all of it into tiny pieces. At 20m thick they are going to be incredibly fragile and prone to damage - infact they'll just fall apart. Which rules it out completely.

Have a think about the logistics of using that method - how big are the sheets? How do you transport them? They are around 20m thick so how are they going to support their own weight and not get damaged in the handling process? How do you attach them to columns? etc, etc.

Originally Posted by Senenmut View Post
http://www.911blogger.com/node/19761

"Indeed, not all the chips are bi-layered as we noted in the paper!
See Fig. 31 for an example. Note that there is gray material on both
sides of the red material in the upper right area; I count six
distinct layers in this chip.
Dr. Basile has independently noted such
chips also, with multiple layers of red and gray. Why do such
multi-layered chips appear? There seems to be an important clue here,
worth exploring IMO."
Answered above. Yes it's an important clue and there is a precise, easily understood, down to earth explanation.

These multi-layered chips are not the same as samples a-d, therefore not thermite, they come from who knows where and are more likely to be paint on a sealant or epoxy that anything else. Do you scrape of all the paint to bear metal or wall everytime you paint something? No? Well how many layers do you think will build up over the years?

It's not hard to work out now is it?
Sunstealer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th April 2009, 08:46 AM   #1208
dtugg
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 7,885
Originally Posted by metamars View Post
One can imagine fuel tanks incorporating thick nanofoils, which "ignite with high heat" on impact, giving a spectacular fireball. In this case, there'd be no need to mess with the buildings at all.
So UA and AA are in on it? They would have to be for your little fantasy to work.
dtugg is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th April 2009, 08:49 AM   #1209
Pardalis
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 25,817
The conspiracy keeps on getting bigger and bigger everyday.
Pardalis is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th April 2009, 08:55 AM   #1210
phunk
Illuminator
 
phunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,030
If a thermite coating was all over the columns, and could be ignited by the heat of the plane crash, wouldn't all of the little chips knocked loose in the impact and ignited by the fireball be easily visible? Thermite burns very bright white, the impact would have looked like a starburst firework.

Last edited by phunk; 9th April 2009 at 08:56 AM.
phunk is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th April 2009, 08:57 AM   #1211
A W Smith
Philosopher
 
A W Smith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,032
Originally Posted by metamars View Post
I've got another buzzword for your list: structural nanofoils, p. 6, here.



(emphasis mine)

One can imagine fuel tanks incorporating thick nanofoils, which "ignite with high heat" on impact, giving a spectacular fireball. In this case, there'd be no need to mess with the buildings at all.

Go ahead boy genius, lets see you weld it into tanks/tubes/structural shapes


Still waiting for a steel destruction demonstration.

Quote:
One can imagine fuel tanks incorporating thick nanofoils,
No sorry. we cant imagine, we are not psyco/delusional. Your conspiracy grows by leaps and bounds. I can imagine thick nanofoil hats for moron truthers.


The Inflationary Model of Conspiracy Theories

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...46#post2320446

part two

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...13#post2323813
__________________
911 resource site by Mark Roberts
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/home
Gravy: Christopher7; You are a Basking Shark in a sea of ignorance.
Galileo:The jury said I didn't have any mental defects or diseases, they declared me 100% sane. Has a jury ever declared you sane?
Dont get me loln off my chesterfield dude.

Last edited by A W Smith; 9th April 2009 at 09:10 AM.
A W Smith is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th April 2009, 09:19 AM   #1212
Sunstealer
Illuminator
 
Sunstealer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,128
Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
Professor Niels Harrit said the following:-

''The red part of the splinter contain carbon, oxygen, aluminum, silicon and iron, while the gray only contains iron and oxygen. Splinter are magnetic.''
http://www.911truth.org/article.php?...90406135508204


Does he mean that the grey material contains only iron and oxygen or is composed of only iron and oxygen ?

If it's the last one it is a recipe for rust and if it's the first one then what is the grey material itself ?

Maybe this is a crazy question but can somebody enlighten me ?
No the sample doesn't just contain Fe and O - look at Fig 6 and tell me what the peak with the C is?

Page 12 states

Quote:
The four spectra in Fig.(6) indicate that the gray layers are consistently characterized by high iron and oxygen content including a smaller amount of carbon.
Why do you consistently fail to read this paper? What is it about the majority of truthers and their inability to read. Harrit is incorrect - his own bloody data and text in his own report that he co-wrote shows him to be incorrect - stop quoting people who can't read their own paper and quote from the report or comment on Fig 6. I'm almost of the opinion that the SEM and EDS data for samples a-d, along with some of the language was actually written by a materials engineer/metallurgist/SEM operator and then Jones et al changed some of it and added their own comments such as "intimate mixing" which no-one with a clue would ever use.

I can't find the specific reference as to why they dismiss the Carbon peak. But Fe and C is likely to be steel. Add in the O and it looks like oxidised steel. There is the possibility on an Mn peak at 5.9KeV on smaples a), b) and d) in fig 6. That would indicate steel without any doubt.

What are the alloying elements of A36 steel?

by wt% 0.29C max, 0.801.2Mn, 0.04P, 0.05S, 0.150.3Si, bal Fe. (P and S are always quoted because they are considered impurities and are detrimental to the properties of steel and are removed as much as possible in the steel making process - Mn is added so that Manganese Sulphide (MnS is formed) rather S segregating and forming FeS at grain boundaries (recognise the FeS anyone?) - Si is either for fluidity or grain refinement)

There is the issue of colour and magnetism of this "gray layer", but when you understand that steel exposed to high temperatures like those seen in the WTC that the oxidised layer becomes hematite which is dark in colour and magnetic. See here for details http://www-staff.lboro.ac.uk/~mprlh/

So what is the most likely conclusion?
Sunstealer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th April 2009, 09:26 AM   #1213
metamars
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,207
Originally Posted by phunk View Post
If a thermite coating was all over the columns, and could be ignited by the heat of the plane crash, wouldn't all of the little chips knocked loose in the impact and ignited by the fireball be easily visible? Thermite burns very bright white, the impact would have looked like a starburst firework.
If, by "little chips", you mean chips the size of Professor Jones' sample, certainly not. They're hard to see with the naked eye - how could you see them in photos taken hundreds of feet away? Also, their range will be tiny, due to air resistance (drag).

Even thicker ones would have, I would guess, a range more like DIME weapons. Good for igniting kerosene fuel, perhaps, but lousy for emulating fireworks.
metamars is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th April 2009, 09:31 AM   #1214
A W Smith
Philosopher
 
A W Smith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,032
Originally Posted by metamars View Post
If, by "little chips", you mean chips the size of Professor Jones' sample, certainly not. They're hard to see with the naked eye - how could you see them in photos taken hundreds of feet away? Also, their range will be tiny, due to air resistance (drag).

Even thicker ones would have, I would guess, a range more like DIME weapons. Good for igniting kerosene fuel, perhaps, but lousy for emulating fireworks.
So you allege chips and reactions which cannot be seen with the naked eye took out columns a man cannot wrap his arms around?
__________________
911 resource site by Mark Roberts
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/home
Gravy: Christopher7; You are a Basking Shark in a sea of ignorance.
Galileo:The jury said I didn't have any mental defects or diseases, they declared me 100% sane. Has a jury ever declared you sane?
Dont get me loln off my chesterfield dude.
A W Smith is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th April 2009, 09:45 AM   #1215
Sunstealer
Illuminator
 
Sunstealer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,128
Originally Posted by Senenmut View Post
as for the calcium:
"The large Ca and S peaks may be
due to contamination with gypsum from the pulverized wallboard
material in the buildings."
Please make an effort to at least make your posts easier to read - cutting and pasting with no formatting makes your posts almost unintelligible and it would be handy to put the page number of the report when you quote from it so we can find it easily (thanks), however, you ask good questions (a truther exception) and deserve a civil response.

One of the most ironic things about this paper is the lack of S in the majority of spectra. Truthers have been screaming about how S in thermite is able to liquefy steel (I wonder who that could be ) yet there is no significant quantity of S in the data.

We have had people saying that the only source of S is thermite and dismiss wall board and gypsum out of hand. Now we have Jones et al claiming that the S in their samples is not part of the thermite but possible contamination with gypsum!!

Truthers - which is it?

The whole point of adding S to thermite is to produce a higher flame temperature and make ignition easier, but guess what it's not in this 10m layer of "thermite" - why not? It's been a crucial component of the thermite theory for ages. Why is it not there?

If they think that the Ca and S is contamination then they have the very tool to find out - a SEM. What they should do is go in at a higher resolution and find these particles they think are gypsum and confirm, not lazily wave it away with a possibility. It's these possibilities that alot of truthers then take up as definites when they are clearly not. What other sources of Ca and S could there be?

Well Ca is most likely Calcium Carbonate - it's widely used in a huge number of applications (including paint). Zinc Sulphate is also very common.

This is the exact reason why EDS/EDX/XEDS is not good for determining compounds and finding out what a material is. It does not distinguish between crystal types and only picks out elements. Using this data for any conclusion is not advised. With simpler samples you can determine compounds but it's best to use the built in semi-quantitative EDS/EDX/XEDS software. Jones et al have not done this.


What we really want is XRD analysis - this will tell us EXACTLY what this material is. I've found a place in the USA that will take posted samples from around the world and charge $40 for the service. These samples need to have that test performed.

Screwing around with the SEM is a pointless exercise with these samples, because it can only give so much information.
Sunstealer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th April 2009, 09:51 AM   #1216
Pinch
Critical Thinker
 
Pinch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 400
Originally Posted by Galileo View Post
Mods:

Please move this to the mental pygmies section.

The people here have no interest in rational or scientific discussion.

I am very disappointed in the quality of the James Randi forum.
This person's argument reminds me of the guy who said he was going to launch a rocket to the sun. When told he's burn up before he got there, he replied that he already thought of that and he would launch at night.

He then asked if the discussion could be moved to the mental pygmies section.
__________________
"There's this thing about being so "open minded" your brain falls out". --Unknown
Pinch is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th April 2009, 09:53 AM   #1217
metamars
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,207
Originally Posted by Sunstealer View Post

These multi-layered chips are not the same as samples a-d, therefore not thermite,
I don't understand this. According to you, samples a-d are not thermite. Call this set A. Therefore, according to you, yet another chip, not a member of A, cannot be thermite.

If U is the universal set, then the multilayer chip is in U - A. But U - A contains thermite chips (well, I suppose that's debatable : - ), including a subset of multilayer thermite chips . Thus, U - A contains multilayer thermite chips, but you are claiming that the fact that Jones' multilayer thermite chip is in U - A is the reason that it is not thermite.

Contradiction

(Unless you are now going to claim that multi-layer thermite chips did not even exist on 9/11 - good luck proving that.)


Quote:
they come from who knows where and are more likely to be paint on a sealant or epoxy that anything else. Do you scrape of all the paint to bear metal or wall everytime you paint something? No? Well how many layers do you think will build up over the years?
Would you be good enough to create a 6 layer paint chip, and take SEM pictures, and so on, to show to the world that you can create 6 layer paint chips that are dead ringers for Jones' ?
metamars is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th April 2009, 09:54 AM   #1218
metamars
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,207
Originally Posted by A W Smith View Post
So you allege chips and reactions which cannot be seen with the naked eye took out columns a man cannot wrap his arms around?
This is so dumb a question that I am going to give you the opportunity to figure out what exactly is so dumb about it.
metamars is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th April 2009, 09:55 AM   #1219
boloboffin
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,986
Originally Posted by metamars View Post
I don't understand this. According to you, samples a-d are not thermite. Call this set A. Therefore, according to you, yet another chip, not a member of A, cannot be thermite.
Would you mind not being so obtuse in this discussion?
boloboffin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th April 2009, 09:55 AM   #1220
alienentity
Illuminator
 
alienentity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,325
Originally Posted by twinstead View Post
Wow. I have underwear bigger than a Yugo.
Overshare
alienentity is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th April 2009, 09:57 AM   #1221
Sunstealer
Illuminator
 
Sunstealer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,128
Originally Posted by metamars View Post
The thing that bothers me most about the Jones, et. al. paper is that, on the one hand, I've never heard of elemental Al ( + Si ) in platelet form, while all nanothermite powders that I am aware of have elemental Al in spherical particles. Not saying it can't be done, but how on earth could Jones, et. al, not have anticipated this issue, and at least noted that they hadn't resolved it, yet? I'm not a material scientist, but my money is on material scientists demanding more proof that elemental-Al/Si platelets can even exist.
Excellent post. I'll apologise now for having a go earlier (I was a bit tired and irritable from work) because with this post it's obvious that you have the ability to think and reason clearly, and come up with very good questions.

This is something that I have been meaning to get on about but haven't had a chance but seeing as you mention it.

All of the materials that I have seen for particulates of either Fe2O3 or Al have been crystals or spheres in the order of magnitude of 1m. I haven't seen platelets of Al. I have no idea how you can manufacture platelets that small and have them contain both SiO2 and elemental Al and keep the platelet as a structure. Surely we would see individual particles of (elemental) Al just as clearly as we see sub-micron rhomboidal crystals of Fe2O3 in the red layer.

If as Jones claims the elemental Aluminium separates from these Al/Si/O platelets then he should be able to demonstrate, a before and after, 50,000x resolution shot, of the degradation (shape change) of theses platelets and clear distinct shapes of the now freed elemental Aluminium.

Why has he not done so?

Edit: Also note that the chip he claims the Al separated from is not one of the samples a-d, it's red layer spectrum is distinctly different and it did not have any detailed SEM work or photos produced (which would show Rhomboidal Fe203 and these platelets) before or after immersion in MEK.

Last edited by Sunstealer; 9th April 2009 at 10:02 AM.
Sunstealer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th April 2009, 10:01 AM   #1222
GregoryUrich
Graduate Poster
 
GregoryUrich's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,316
Originally Posted by KreeL View Post
...and that is the crux of your problem, alien. You are assuming that the material was not universally applied.

Once you crack the means with which the towers were demolished, the evidence discovered by Jones becomes insurmountable.

Government hacks - like the majority of posters in this thread - simply lack the power to deduce how the towers were demolished.
KreeL, if it was universally applied to the extent that it would effect the stability of the entire structure, you are talking about nearly the same mass as all the steel. On the order of 100,000 tons per building. I hope you can see that implementing your theory in practice would be an impossibility. This would also reduce the safety factor to a dangerously low level, at least in the core.
__________________
"My father would womanize, he would drink, he would make outrageous claims, like he invented the question mark. Sometimes, he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy - the sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament." - Dr. Evil
GregoryUrich is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th April 2009, 10:07 AM   #1223
phunk
Illuminator
 
phunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,030
Originally Posted by metamars View Post
If, by "little chips", you mean chips the size of Professor Jones' sample, certainly not. They're hard to see with the naked eye - how could you see them in photos taken hundreds of feet away? Also, their range will be tiny, due to air resistance (drag).

Even thicker ones would have, I would guess, a range more like DIME weapons. Good for igniting kerosene fuel, perhaps, but lousy for emulating fireworks.
A chip the size of jones' sample, if it was thermite, would be easily visible from a long distance when ignited (thermite burns brighter than the sun) and air resistance wouldn't be an issue as the small chips would easily be blown out of the building by the large fireball.
phunk is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th April 2009, 10:08 AM   #1224
Unsecured Coins
Hoku-maniac
 
Unsecured Coins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,905
good. tell Jones to ignite it and see what happens.
__________________
"If God wants 10% of my paycheck, he can get it himself. Or at least work for it -Kochanski
"I may not be easy, but I am fast." - Hokulele
"Oh CRAP... DQ!!" - Ol' Hokey, yet again
Unsecured Coins is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th April 2009, 10:10 AM   #1225
A W Smith
Philosopher
 
A W Smith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,032
Originally Posted by metamars View Post
This is so dumb a question that I am going to give you the opportunity to figure out what exactly is so dumb about it.
Well go ahead and spell it out. How thick does this layer have to be to take out a column??? Go ahead !! Explain!
__________________
911 resource site by Mark Roberts
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/home
Gravy: Christopher7; You are a Basking Shark in a sea of ignorance.
Galileo:The jury said I didn't have any mental defects or diseases, they declared me 100% sane. Has a jury ever declared you sane?
Dont get me loln off my chesterfield dude.
A W Smith is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th April 2009, 10:15 AM   #1226
Sunstealer
Illuminator
 
Sunstealer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,128
Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
Are nano-materials relatively heavier than their standard counterparts ? If the particles are ground so fine that they can enter even mcro-structures such as the human cell you could get an awful lot of them in a cubic inch.
Look up particles size distribution and packing density. That will answer your excellent question.

This is very relevant because for example if you were using 2 powders then you can never achieve full density because the particles will always leave gaps - packing density is a way of measuring a giving how dense a powdered material is.

Couldn't find a decent article on "Packing Density" so here's a quick

For example - get an ice cream tub. Fill it with marbles (of the same size) in the most efficient way possible (so most space is taken up). Now pour water into the tub. Take the marbles out. Pour the water into a measuring jug and take the reading. Put water back into the ice cream tub and fill to the top with water and then pour that into a measuring jug and take the reading.

The ratio between the two is the packing density of the marbles.

Now use marbles of different sizes. Does the packing density increase or decrease?
Sunstealer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th April 2009, 10:18 AM   #1227
beachnut
Penultimate Amazing
 
beachnut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dog House
Posts: 25,266
Originally Posted by metamars View Post
I've got another buzzword for your list: structural nanofoils, p. 6, here.



(emphasis mine)

One can imagine fuel tanks incorporating thick nanofoils, which "ignite with high heat" on impact, giving a spectacular fireball. In this case, there'd be no need to mess with the buildings at all.
No nanofoil needed for your doltish paranoid claim.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


Why do you display such stupid statements? The impacts of flight 11 and 175 had large fireballs because that is what happens when the engines are running the jet is smashed while smashing the ground or a building. At least you have a delusion as big as Jones' paper.

Before you get your mind in overdrive the nanofoil is real, but your idea is pure poppycock save for adding to the idiotic scenarios of the dirt dumb 911Truth movement as you add more people responsible for 911.

Sorry, a jet at 470 and 590 mph with the engines running at and above cruise as they were on 911 give you a giant fireball. I can prove it, but I was beat by reality, and studies, and experience. At least you like to apologizes for the terrorist by implying other people beside 19 terrorists are murderers. Sad pathetic people makes up lies like Jones and 911Truth to satisfied some perverted bias they have. What is your anti-intellectual bias to make you spew delusions and make up lies?

Thermite? What a bunch of crap; standard products from a large building destroyed on 911 have been found and Jones leaves out all the possibilities so he can back in his nut case evidence to make his delusion real to those who lack knowledge and the capacity to think for themselves. At least you are making up your own perverted ideas on 911.

Last edited by beachnut; 9th April 2009 at 10:19 AM.
beachnut is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th April 2009, 10:22 AM   #1228
Pinch
Critical Thinker
 
Pinch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 400
Originally Posted by KreeL View Post

Look at the entire episode of 9/11. You would have to be daft to actually believe that some guys that were working out on a jungle-gym in the desert suddenly became capable of piloting heavy commercial aircraft and defeated the air defenses of the United States.
Its funny when Truthers post things that emphasize and underscore their level of ignorant with regards to how things work.

"...piloting heavy commercial aircraft..."? You think that's difficult? You are a fool if you do.

"...defeated the air defenses of the United States?" Now THAT was a brilliant statement. My dog makes an equally brilliant statement every morning when I let him out. "Defeating" 4 NORAD alert aircraft in an air defense system that I'll admit had become lazy and complacent and accustomed to watching an ocean radar horizon that hadn't even had Soviet bombers fly past for a number of years is not my idea of anything special, especially when you consider hijacking an aircraft and killing the pilots to take over the cockpit would have been the most difficult part of the evolution. After that, your only enemy is time and when your intentions are to crash the aircraft into some skyscraper or a military headquarters, you don't need much time for that with a weapon that travels 7 miles a minute.
__________________
"There's this thing about being so "open minded" your brain falls out". --Unknown
Pinch is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th April 2009, 10:23 AM   #1229
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 45,575
Originally Posted by 1337m4n View Post
Moderators, please take note: Galileo outright admits that his intention is to troll.
Uh, the Mods have stated that the rules of JREF do not forbid trolling.therefore Trolling a permitted within certain limits.
I strongly disagree with this policy, but the Mods call the shots.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th April 2009, 10:27 AM   #1230
Sunstealer
Illuminator
 
Sunstealer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,128
Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
If the analysis of the grey mterial and the thermite residue shows that the particles are at the nanometer scale (one billionth of a meter) that is almost as suspicious as the thermite itself.
No and thrice no. Please stop with this silly insinuation that nano is somehow special or that only thermite or some super special material can contain material of a nano-scale. It's blatantly not true.

We have been producing powders and other materials that have a nano-scale for decades, it is nothing out of the ordinary. Stop being sucked in by this nano-obsession and go and look at materials in the real world. There are thousands of applications that when you look at them very closely with a SEM have structures on the nano-scale.

I used to work for a company in the satellite industry and they were always at teh cutting edge of micro-electronics. We had a program of looking at the best method for attaching "fine wire gold bonds" - wires between electrical components http://electronicmaterials.usask.ca/...os/photo13.gif - they were forever reducing the size of these things and we had to make sure that the bond on the bottom of the foot was solid. Foot - http://archive.evaluationengineering...s/xrayFIG2.jpg. The wire was only 17.5m thick.

Now we had to mount, grind and polish these sections in order to get a view through the foot like a cross-section, examine it under the microscope. http://www.emeraldinsight.com/fig/2180250106005.png which is astoundingly difficult to do and takes great skill.

That was a nano-sized material and that was in 1997. There is nothing special about nano.

What size does a material have to be before it's classified as a nano material? I'm after a general figure Bill.
Sunstealer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th April 2009, 10:28 AM   #1231
bill smith
Philosopher
 
bill smith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 8,408
If these two statements are true what can be the explanation ?

the gray layers are composed of an opaque homogenous material,''--Hoffman
'' while the gray only contains iron and oxygen--Danish Professor ''

Sunstealer says there was also some Carbon though I'd say it was likely to have been very little given that the Danish guy did not think it worth mentining in his statement above.

We know that properties can change at nano-levels including a change in colour. So maybe the grey stuff IS actualy iron and oxygen- just a nano variety.

If that is true the jig is up.
__________________
*Think WTC7 - You cannot make the four corners of a table fall together unless you cut the four legs together
*A kitchen table judgement on a world scale is enough
* To Citizens: 'There comes a time when silence is betrayal'

Last edited by bill smith; 9th April 2009 at 10:33 AM.
bill smith is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th April 2009, 10:29 AM   #1232
Lenbrazil
Muse
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 974
Please forgive me if this has been covered already but I posted the following on another forum comments?

The tests performed by Harrit et. al. to eliminate the possibility the chips were ordinary paint were inadequate, they only performed two

I] –

Quote:
We measured the resistivity of the red material (with very little gray adhering to one side) using a Fluke 8842A multimeter in order to compare with ordinary paints, using the formula:

Specific resistivity = RA / L
where R = resistance (ohms); A = cross-sectional area (m2); L
= thickness (m).

Given the small size of the red chip, about 0.5 mm x 0.5 mm, we used two probes and obtained a rough value of approximately 10 ohm-m. This is several orders of magnitude less than paint coatings we found tabulated which are typically over 10*10 ohm-m [31].
There a few problems:

1) though they had several chips they only tested one, since they reported a six fold variance for energy output there is no reason to expect other characteristics to be consistent.
2) The chip as they noted was very small, the size of a grain of sand. They reported having much larger ones. No explanation was given as to why the only chip tested was one of the smallest ones they had or if this could if have led to an erroneous reading
3) The title of the cited paper is “Zinc-ferrite pigment for corrosion protection” which suggests the table in it only covers a very specific class of paint. It costs GBP 14.50 “and VAT where applicable” if anyone is willing to spend the money OR has free access. The title also indicates no one should be surprised to find iron on paint.

emeraldinsight.com/Insight/viewContentItem.do;jsessionid=8C534FEDD35CAB1C15D0 85260A224173?contentType=Article&hdAction=lnkhtml& contentId=876638

4) They never explain why resistivity to electrical current should be considered a defining characteristic of paint. A Google search for: "specific resistance" paint omhs turned up only 2 hits. Though the terms were on the same pages the specific resistance of paint wasn’t discussed in either.
5) They never explain why low resistivity should be considered indicative of the material being a thermitic compound

II] –

Quote:
Another test, described above, involved subjection of red chips to methyl ethyl ketone solvent for tens of hours, with agitation. The red material did swell but did not dissolve, and a hard silicon-rich matrix remained after this procedure. On the other hand, paint samples in the same exposure to MEK solvent became limp and showed significant dissolution, as expected since MEK is a paint solvent.
This is also problematic because they never tell their readers what types of paint were tested. Thus they fell fall short of demonstrating that MEK dissolves all types of paint. I just e-mail someone who sells the solvent and asked and will report back either way.
Lenbrazil is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th April 2009, 10:31 AM   #1233
Sunstealer
Illuminator
 
Sunstealer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,128
Originally Posted by Senenmut View Post
from what sunstealer says about the gray layer:
"The "gray layer" looks more and more likely to be a flake of oxidised A36 steel - they are making excuses for the amount of Carbon present and if it is correct that there is an Mn peak at just under 6KeV in samples a,b and d then that's the clincher right there."

so if there are layers and layers of oxidised A36 steel then i can see the what u are saying but i highly doubt that.

so since some chips are multiple layered (6 layers), could that rule out oxidised A36 steel between each layer? and would the picture sunstealer posts "seperated at birth be void when speaking of these multiple layered chips?
I think I've answered that in another post - see page 31 of this thread.

What people have to realise is that the samples that Jones has are not all of the same type. This is an indicator that all of his samples are not thermite.

The NIST photo that i refer to ONLY relates to samples a-d in Jones' paper - nothing more nothing less. So yes it is void when talking about the other chips but I think I covered that in the earlier post - page 31.

You have to start looking very closely at each individual chip and the EDS data associated with each one. Only then will you see that the chips are indeterminably different - you cannot take them as a whole.
Sunstealer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th April 2009, 10:35 AM   #1234
Sunstealer
Illuminator
 
Sunstealer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,128
Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
Physical Structure of the Chips:-

Chips having distinctive and similar physical features were found in all four of the dust samples, ranging in length from from about 0.2 to 3 mm. Each chip has stratified layers of two types: a red layer and a lighter gray layer, where each layer is between roughly 10 and 100 microns in thickness. Despite their small size, the chips are readily visible in the samples because of their flat shapes, distinctive color, and layered structure. The chips are tough despite being as thin as eggshells.

Magnification reveals that the gray layers are composed of an opaque homogenous material, whereas the red layers have small particles embedded in a matrix of slightly translucent material.

At magnification of 50,000 the structure of the two types of particles is clear: small bright particles having a faceted shape and measuring about 100 nm in diameter, and larger particles having a flat and often hexagonal shape and measuring about 1000 nm across and 40 nm thick.

The particles are held in place and in close proximity to each other by the porous matrix. Soaking the chips in methyl ethyl ketone, a solvent that dissolves paint, caused the red layer to swell while remaining intact.

Up to this point, I have reviewed only characteristics of the chips revealed by macro- and micro-scopic visual examination, but already the implications are stunning: the chips are clearly a nano-engineered material with two types of extremely small particles, each highly consistent in shape and size, held in close stable proximity by a durable matrix which is laminated to a hard homogenous material. The student of energetic materials will appreciate that this description matches exactly that of a super-thermite in which the reactant particles are suspended in a sol-gel matrix applied to a substrate.
http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/t...chip_structure
Dross - it's already been shown in the paper that

Quote:
Fe-rich grains and Al/Si plate-like particles and that these particles are embedded in a carbon-rich matrix.
in the paper. There is no need to quote the whole of that section. It does not match exactly the nature of nano-thermite, far from it. Stop going to truther sites and learn about the word nano.

The person who wrote what you quote has never ever sat in on an SEM session otherwise they wouldn't be so wowed. I do a facepalm everytime I see people with zero experience start waxing lyrical about this and that - they plainly have no clue.

Last edited by Sunstealer; 9th April 2009 at 10:37 AM.
Sunstealer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th April 2009, 10:45 AM   #1235
Sunstealer
Illuminator
 
Sunstealer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,128
Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
************************************************** *********************
''...The chips are tough despite being as thin as eggshells.''
'' Magnification reveals that the gray layers are composed of an opaque homogenous material,''

'' the chips are clearly a nano-engineered material with two types of extremely small particles, each highly consistent in shape and size, held in close stable proximity by a durable matrix which is laminated to a hard homogenous material.''

'' The particles are held in place and in close proximity to each other by the porous matrix.''
http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/t...chip_structure.
************************************************** ******

the gray layers are composed of an opaque homogenous material,''--Hoffman
'' while the gray only contains iron and oxygen--Danish Professor ''

Surely he iron would have oxidised over the last seven years ? Rusted away even. There has to be more to this ?
It is rust most likely in the form of Hematite, see postings on this page and all my others. For rust to occur you need oxygen and water. These samples will have been kept in bags away from water hence why the rust hasn't completely vanished.

Opaque homogenous material! WTF! Opaque! Is he saying the "gray layer" is see through? Honestly these people have absolutely no clue, the last thing you can describe that material as is bloody opaque!

He doesn't even comment on the cracks and their morphology in the "gray layer", clearly indicating a brittle material. oh /facepalm, it's too much stupid to comprehend.

Sunstealer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th April 2009, 10:48 AM   #1236
Galileo
Illuminator
 
Galileo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,368
Originally Posted by parky76 View Post
you, my friend, are a JREFer.
personal attacks are not allowed in this forum. You can go after my ideas if you want to.
Galileo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th April 2009, 10:49 AM   #1237
bill smith
Philosopher
 
bill smith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 8,408
Is the paint argument holding it's own ? I'm not sure that it is. The paint s all there is though as far as I can see. Concerned citizens reading this thread might be starting to form conclusions.
__________________
*Think WTC7 - You cannot make the four corners of a table fall together unless you cut the four legs together
*A kitchen table judgement on a world scale is enough
* To Citizens: 'There comes a time when silence is betrayal'
bill smith is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th April 2009, 10:52 AM   #1238
Galileo
Illuminator
 
Galileo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,368
Originally Posted by GregoryUrich View Post
Not to make excuses for NIST, but they certainly had time and budget constraints. They also made other mistakes that worked against their conclusions.

Gordon's theory is pure conjecture and is refuted by the sound recordings (on videos) of the collapses. Any explosive that could sever steel would be heard clearly and blow out windows. Neither was observed. I cover this in my Open Letter to Richard Gage and compare sound levels to actual demolitions...easy to find on google.
Greg;

Thank you for the thoughtful comments.

I would say that the discovery of the nano-thermite shows that the explosions might not be picked up on tape, if that is really the case that they weren't. I heard a lot of loud noises that day.

Many windows were blown out by steel beams that flew 500 feet through the air.
Galileo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th April 2009, 10:53 AM   #1239
Pinch
Critical Thinker
 
Pinch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 400
Originally Posted by metamars
One can imagine fuel tanks incorporating thick nanofoils, which "ignite with high heat" on impact, giving a spectacular fireball. In this case, there'd be no need to mess with the buildings at all.
Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
No nanofoil needed for your doltish paranoid claim.

]Why do you display such stupid statements? The impacts of flight 11 and 175 had large fireballs because that is what happens when the engines are running the jet is smashed while smashing the ground or a building. At least you have a delusion as big as Jones' paper.
Reminds me of the argument/claims by some of the Truthers of a missile that was fired a nanosecond before impact with the WTC to help open a hole for the aircraft.

What a 500 or 1000 lb blast frag warhead is going to do to "open a hole" for a 90-ton compilation of aluminum and titanium and steel and fuel and people traveling at 7 miles a minute is really pretty funny to even think of.

But, that is the Truther Way.
__________________
"There's this thing about being so "open minded" your brain falls out". --Unknown

Last edited by Pinch; 9th April 2009 at 12:30 PM.
Pinch is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 9th April 2009, 10:58 AM   #1240
Sunstealer
Illuminator
 
Sunstealer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,128
Originally Posted by metamars View Post
I don't understand this. According to you, samples a-d are not thermite. Call this set A. Therefore, according to you, yet another chip, not a member of A, cannot be thermite.

If U is the universal set, then the multilayer chip is in U - A. But U - A contains thermite chips (well, I suppose that's debatable : - ), including a subset of multilayer thermite chips . Thus, U - A contains multilayer thermite chips, but you are claiming that the fact that Jones' multilayer thermite chip is in U - A is the reason that it is not thermite.

Contradiction
Sorry I wasn't clear enough. Chip seen in Fig 31 is significantly different to samples a-d, therefore he cannot claim that both are thermite. He is claiming that both are thermite. It's a no go.

Bearing in mind I have shown beyond any reasonable doubt that samples a-d are hematite and red paint then sample from Fig 31 must be looked at in more detail. Having done that then I can conclude that that one is even further away from what thermite can be.

The chips are obviously paint, but from different sources. Why is it so hard to imagine that amongst the dust samples collected are flecks of paint from many different sources.

The largest element reported in the dust was Titanium iirc (must find the link to the substantial report) due to all of the white paint present in the samples (TiO2)

Originally Posted by metamars View Post
(Unless you are now going to claim that multi-layer thermite chips did not even exist on 9/11 - good luck proving that.)
No, obviously not but how hard is it to realise that some one paints an item once every year, producing 5 layers of primer and 5 layers of paint and that a tiny bit of this flecks off and is collected in the sample? There are literally thousands of sources for this material to have come from or are truthers suggesting that the only building painted in NY is the WTC? One of the samples was collected from close to the Brooklyn Bridge - I bet there is a hell of alot of paint flaking off of that each year.

Originally Posted by metamars View Post
Would you be good enough to create a 6 layer paint chip, and take SEM pictures, and so on, to show to the world that you can create 6 layer paint chips that are dead ringers for Jones' ?
Why - any layered substance is going to show layers in a SEM.

Infact I'll do it and that's a promise. I will use the exact same paint that Jones used in the MEK test.......

...... damn, metamars, be a good chap will you and find the bit in Jones' report where it details what paint he used. Thanks.
Sunstealer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Closed Thread

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories » 9/11 Conspiracy Theories

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:33 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.