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Tags 911 conspiracy theory , thermite , wtc1 , wtc2

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Old 9th April 2009, 01:10 PM   #1321
lapman
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Originally Posted by roundhead View Post
Not true.


This peer reviewed scientific paper says their was.


Until a scientific paper is published to scientifically undermine it( as yet such ISNT the case), gill plate flapping and jumping up and down and screaming carries zero cerebral weight. None. Zilch. Nada.

Especially from you 19.99 Wal-mart starter kit teenage chemists around here
Thermite is not an explosive. The chips are not claimed to be a residue, but are postulated to be the actual material. However, without an example of real nanothermite to compare it to, they are only speculating. The fact that the refuse to identify the paint that they are using for comparison further proves that they have nothing. Since this is published in a vanity rag and not a recognized, legitimate peer-reviewed journal, it means nothing.
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Old 9th April 2009, 01:11 PM   #1322
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Originally Posted by T.A.M. View Post
sorry to inform you, but a single paper by one group of scientists with a single set of UNVERIFIED, UNREPEATED results, does not proof make.

Try again later.

TAM
The experiments were repeated several times, read the paper. And the referees confirmed and verified the findings.

The Architects for 9/11 Truth have also confirmed the findings, as well as the Scholars for 9/11 Truth & Justice.

You are mixed up.

The peer reviewed study merely confimed what most 9/11 experts already had proven, that explosives took down the WTC.
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Old 9th April 2009, 01:11 PM   #1323
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Originally Posted by Galileo View Post
If there was a conspiracy to doctor the tape, someone would have talked by now.

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Old 9th April 2009, 01:13 PM   #1324
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Originally Posted by lapman View Post
Thermite is not an explosive. The chips are not claimed to be a residue, but are postulated to be the actual material. However, without an example of real nanothermite to compare it to, they are only speculating. The fact that the refuse to identify the paint that they are using for comparison further proves that they have nothing. Since this is published in a vanity rag and not a recognized, legitimate peer-reviewed journal, it means nothing.
So says you, a bucket with a huge hole in the bottom of it.

If its junk science, like you regurgitatingly state, i expect we will see a scientific rebuttal in short order....right??
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Old 9th April 2009, 01:15 PM   #1325
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Originally Posted by lapman View Post
Thermite is not an explosive. The chips are not claimed to be a residue, but are postulated to be the actual material. However, without an example of real nanothermite to compare it to, they are only speculating. The fact that the refuse to identify the paint that they are using for comparison further proves that they have nothing. Since this is published in a vanity rag and not a recognized, legitimate peer-reviewed journal, it means nothing.
thermite cuts through WTC steel beams like a hot knife through butter. You are just playing word games.
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Old 9th April 2009, 01:18 PM   #1326
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Originally Posted by roundhead View Post
So says you, a bucket with a huge hole in the bottom of it.

If its junk science, like you regurgitatingly state, i expect we will see a scientific rebuttal in short order....right??
Since this vanity rag is not read by legitimate scientists, it won't happen. Nobody would want to waste the $600 to post a rebuttal for an unknown paper that the scentific community will never see. However, scientists like Dr. Greening have torn the paper apart and have attempted to contact Jones et al. Like the other times, Jones will not release all data pertaining to his experiments.
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Old 9th April 2009, 01:20 PM   #1327
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Originally Posted by Galileo View Post
thermite cuts through WTC steel beams like a hot knife through butter. You are just playing word games.
Thermite does not cut horizontally. Fail.
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Old 9th April 2009, 01:20 PM   #1328
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Originally Posted by roundhead View Post
So says you, a bucket with a huge hole in the bottom of it.

If its junk science, like you regurgitatingly state, i expect we will see a scientific rebuttal in short order....right??
Not unless it gets on the scientific radar first. You really think anyone but a few people here at the JREF, and several hundred truthers are waiting with baited breath for the next issue of Bentham's Sham Journal to come out.

Oh My

TAM
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Old 9th April 2009, 01:21 PM   #1329
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Originally Posted by Galileo View Post
T

The Architects for 9/11 Truth have also confirmed the findings, as well as the Scholars for 9/11 Truth & Justice.
submit the evidence to an independent lab for independent analysis. if they say there is thermite in there, then i will believe.
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Old 9th April 2009, 01:22 PM   #1330
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This is the same fraud the creationists pull.

Trying to do and end run around real science while dishonestly proclaiming themselves legitimate.

They think most people are as easily fooled by such tactics as they themselves are.
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Old 9th April 2009, 01:22 PM   #1331
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Originally Posted by Galileo View Post
The experiments were repeated several times, read the paper. And the referees confirmed and verified the findings.

The Architects for 9/11 Truth have also confirmed the findings, as well as the Scholars for 9/11 Truth & Justice.

You are mixed up.

The peer reviewed study merely confimed what most 9/11 experts already had proven, that explosives took down the WTC.
1. INDEPENDENTLY VERIFIED AND REPEATED!!!
2. Please provide your proof that the "referees" independently repeated and verified the tests that Jones performed on the chips. I certainly am not going to take your or Jones word for it.
3.The rest of your comment is pure crap.

TAM
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Old 9th April 2009, 01:24 PM   #1332
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Originally Posted by parky76 View Post
submit the evidence to an independent lab for independent analysis. if they say there is thermite in there, then i will believe.
Jones supposedly did that in 2007. The results were........?
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Old 9th April 2009, 01:24 PM   #1333
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Another thing that we know - from the NIST report and the experiment in Appendix D (where we get the nice photo from) we know that the steels natural oxide layer will spall (fall off in laymens terms) at 650°C. Therefore if the layer of red paint which Jones claims is thermite ever heated up then a 650°C the oxide layer would spall removing the thermite from contact with the steel. The oxide layer is brittle - we see that in Jones' own SEM photographs Fig 4 and 5 and we know that rust is incoherent (crystally) with the parent material so any thermal shock such as quick heating and it's going to spall.

We should congratulate Jones because the only piece of science Jones has done is to clear up the source or a source of his microspheres:

A source of micro-spheres in the WTC dust is burnt paint.

which means that anyone stripping paint with a blow torch whether it be at home or cleaning the Brooklyn Bridge or whatever, if they are stripping red paint they will be producing iron rich microspheres.

Thank you, you've been a lovely audience, good night and god bless (or be touched by his noodley appendage)

Good night

Bow.
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Old 9th April 2009, 01:25 PM   #1334
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Originally Posted by parky76 View Post
submit the evidence to an independent lab for independent analysis. if they say there is thermite in there, then i will believe.
This is an independent lab. NIST has been overturned.
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Old 9th April 2009, 01:26 PM   #1335
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Originally Posted by lapman View Post
Thermite does not cut horizontally. Fail.
You do not know the difference between left and south.
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Old 9th April 2009, 01:27 PM   #1336
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Originally Posted by The Platypus View Post
This is the same fraud the creationists pull.

Trying to do and end run around real science while dishonestly proclaiming themselves legitimate.

They think most people are as easily fooled by such tactics as they themselves are.
You are acting like a flat-earther. Galileo vanquished them 400 years ago!

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Old 9th April 2009, 01:28 PM   #1337
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Originally Posted by Galileo View Post
You do not know the difference between left and south.
Wow, a non-answer to an established fact. Even the video YOU posted shows that thermite follows the law of gravity.
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Old 9th April 2009, 01:28 PM   #1338
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
Jeez...my whole life i thought 'opaque' meant the same as 'translucent'. Thanks.
Thanks, I too made the same mistake - must slow down.
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Old 9th April 2009, 01:32 PM   #1339
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Originally Posted by Galileo View Post
Has your open letter to Gage been published in a peer reviewed scientific journal? It has been over a year now, and plenty of time to do it.

I would even be impressed if it were published by a vanity journal.
I'll send that right in to a major journal as soon as you post your links.
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Old 9th April 2009, 01:36 PM   #1340
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Originally Posted by Galileo View Post
If there was a conspiracy to doctor the tape, someone would have talked by now.
Do I even need to comment on the hilarity of this quote?

I'll let you guys continue your game of 'smack-a-troll', which is similar to 'whack-a-mole' but with a less intelligent victim..

Back to Jones/Robertson in 2006, referring to the pools of molten metal (more 'proof of thermite, you see):
'this metal is primarily iron, not aluminum, it also contains traces of unusual trace metals, in unusual quantities anyway, such as Barium and ....Manganese and Zinc...in large quantities. And so these are consistent with a chemical reaction on a large scale'

Cut to 2009, what happened to all the Zinc which used to be proof of thermite? Now the official line is ABSENCE of Zinc is proof of thermite....

But it gets worse.. By carrying out the (highly improbable) almost complete application of this thermite material to structural steel, it would be found all over the place throughout both towers.
No question there.

How then, considering all the structural steel recovered after the collapses, was this material NOT observed by anyone? Remember, truthers, the INTACT steel that was found in large quantities was NOT melted away by thermite. It is not possible that some of the 'thermite paint' would not still be found on the steel. No way.

This is 100% incompatible with the latest paper of Jones et al.

It does not fit. So you must acquit. (nod to Johnny C)
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Old 9th April 2009, 01:37 PM   #1341
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Originally Posted by Galileo View Post
It is spreading around the world faster than the SARS virus!
Good analogy! I too see the "twoof", like a disease that infects the weak! Well said, Bravo!

PS
You should probably check your meds!
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Old 9th April 2009, 01:40 PM   #1342
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Originally Posted by T.A.M. View Post
SO the person who provided you the photo, and analyzed Jones chips, what does he/she think of (A) the photo, and (B) his chips?

TAM
The irony is they are a truther! But they have a sample that has three layers which are distinct. We have the top layer or red layer as Jones calls it. The we have the "gray layer" and then we have a fibrous crystalline material that can only be metal. So we now have an iron oxide sandwiched between paint and steel. No guesses as to where the oxide is from eh? It can only be from one source and thats the metal (which is steel because he has spectra and makes the same mistake of dismissing the Carbon - see page 16).

Jones never discusses the oxide layer in any detail, they literally ignore it. They don't even say - yes this is rust from the steel that the thermite was painted on and a bit has flaked off. They ignore this layer. Infact we don't even have any photos of the underside of the "gray layer". All the shots, SEM included are from the top or sides. Fishy eh?

Anyway here is the French data kindly provided by moorea34 (cheers).

http://darksideofgravity.com/marseille.pdf

He does what Jones should do and link to where he takes the EDS from. Unfortunately on the corresponding EDS spectra the RHS of the slide is cut off so it's hard to see which "aspiro" correlates with which point. His data is similar to Jones which is not a problem, but his SEM skills are better and there is detail in the EDS spectra.
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Old 9th April 2009, 01:43 PM   #1343
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Wow - all this data and information I'm providing and only one or two truthers have enquired about it.

Come on Bill Smith, Galileo what are you waiting for? Slap me down and show how I'm wrong. At least comment or do you have me on ignore so you don't have to look at the mounting evidence that show that Jones' paper isn't what it claims?
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Old 9th April 2009, 01:43 PM   #1344
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Originally Posted by Dog Town View Post
Good analogy! I too see the "twoof", like a disease that infects the weak! Well said, Bravo!
Not to mention SARS was defeated.
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Old 9th April 2009, 01:45 PM   #1345
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Will people just put Galileo on ignore he has nothing of any value to say whatsoever, or does he? Care to comment where I've pulled Jones' claims apart? Thought not.
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Old 9th April 2009, 01:48 PM   #1346
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Originally Posted by Sunstealer View Post
The irony is they are a truther! But they have a sample that has three layers which are distinct. We have the top layer or red layer as Jones calls it. The we have the "gray layer" and then we have a fibrous crystalline material that can only be metal. So we now have an iron oxide sandwiched between paint and steel. No guesses as to where the oxide is from eh? It can only be from one source and thats the metal (which is steel because he has spectra and makes the same mistake of dismissing the Carbon - see page 16).

Jones never discusses the oxide layer in any detail, they literally ignore it. They don't even say - yes this is rust from the steel that the thermite was painted on and a bit has flaked off. They ignore this layer. Infact we don't even have any photos of the underside of the "gray layer". All the shots, SEM included are from the top or sides. Fishy eh?

Anyway here is the French data kindly provided by moorea34 (cheers).

http://darksideofgravity.com/marseille.pdf

He does what Jones should do and link to where he takes the EDS from. Unfortunately on the corresponding EDS spectra the RHS of the slide is cut off so it's hard to see which "aspiro" correlates with which point. His data is similar to Jones which is not a problem, but his SEM skills are better and there is detail in the EDS spectra.
Any chance of an english translation of the french PDF?

TAM
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Old 9th April 2009, 01:49 PM   #1347
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Originally Posted by Pardalis View Post
Not to mention SARS was defeated.
you care to translate the french PDF Sunstealer has presented above...or at least his conclusions and discussions??

TAM
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Old 9th April 2009, 01:51 PM   #1348
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Originally Posted by T.A.M. View Post
you care to translate the french PDF Sunstealer has presented above...or at least his conclusions and discussions??

TAM
Even though I am a francophone, I would also need the technical knowledge, but I have no training in science or chemistry whatsoever.
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Old 9th April 2009, 01:55 PM   #1349
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Still waiting for the destruction of steel demonstration. Will the demonstration of supernanothermite be occurring at the next Truth Fail event? The sign looks a little rusty.. like it could use a little **ahem** paint
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Old 9th April 2009, 01:55 PM   #1350
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Question

Originally Posted by roundhead View Post
If its junk science, like you regurgitatingly state, i expect we will see a scientific rebuttal in short order....right??
If it's junk science, why would a scientific rebuttal be necessary?
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Old 9th April 2009, 01:55 PM   #1351
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Originally Posted by Sunstealer View Post
Will people just put Galileo on ignore he has nothing of any value to say whatsoever, or does he? Care to comment where I've pulled Jones' claims apart? Thought not.
You can't put Galileo on ignore. He's the one that started this thread, and it disappears when you put him on ignore. A rather useful tactic to make sure that you can continue to troll the thread.

What we need is for people to just ignore him. If no one takes the bait, the disruptions become one-sided, and the moderators will step in and clean up the thread.
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Old 9th April 2009, 01:57 PM   #1352
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He's also a constant reminder of what "kind" of people are pushing for these theories.
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Old 9th April 2009, 01:57 PM   #1353
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Originally Posted by Sunstealer View Post

Anyway here is the French data kindly provided by moorea34 (cheers).

.
This data is provided by a well known french truther, Frédéric Henry-Couannier.
He recieved dust from Jones several months ago... They have good relationship...
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Old 9th April 2009, 01:57 PM   #1354
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Originally Posted by Sunstealer View Post

Why - any layered substance is going to show layers in a SEM.
Well, I'm hoping that detailed pictures will show more than just layers. E.g., what about the eveness of layers? Come to think of it, please make paint chips via both brushing and spray painting. I find it hard to believe that brushed on paint will have even layers, and easy to believe that spray painted surfaces will

Quote:

Infact I'll do it and that's a promise. I will use the exact same paint that Jones used in the MEK test.......

...... damn, metamars, be a good chap will you and find the bit in Jones' report where it details what paint he used. Thanks.
Thank-you. I just sent Professor Jones and email requesting the exact paint type, but as he didn't directly reply to my last email (though cc'ing me on others), I'm a little doubtful that I'll get a direct answer. We'll see.
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Old 9th April 2009, 02:01 PM   #1355
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Originally Posted by metamars View Post
Well, I'm hoping that detailed pictures will show more than just layers. E.g., what about the eveness of layers? Come to think of it, please make paint chips via both brushing and spray painting. I find it hard to believe that brushed on paint will have even layers, and easy to believe that spray painted surfaces will


Thank-you. I just sent Professor Jones and email requesting the exact paint type, but as he didn't directly reply to my last email (though cc'ing me on others), I'm a little doubtful that I'll get a direct answer. We'll see.
Cool ask him for those independent test results from 2007 too.
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Old 9th April 2009, 02:02 PM   #1356
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Originally Posted by T.A.M. View Post
Any chance of an english translation of the french PDF?

TAM
Put it through a translator,google etc..
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Old 9th April 2009, 02:06 PM   #1357
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Originally Posted by GregoryUrich View Post
KreeL, if it was universally applied to the extent that it would effect the stability of the entire structure, you are talking about nearly the same mass as all the steel. On the order of 100,000 tons per building. I hope you can see that implementing your theory in practice would be an impossibility. This would also reduce the safety factor to a dangerously low level, at least in the core.
Same mass as all the steel? What are you smoking?
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Old 9th April 2009, 02:07 PM   #1358
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Originally Posted by Dog Town View Post
Put it through a translator,google etc..
Can google or any other translator, translate a PDF file??

TAM
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Old 9th April 2009, 02:08 PM   #1359
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Originally Posted by 16.5 View Post
Cool ask him for those independent test results from 2007 too.
Or lacking that, Have Jonesie give us the names of the labs along with contact info and sample info/number so we can get copies of those reports.


That is of course, Unless he got those reports and did some editing to them like Jonesie is famous for? Go ahead Jonesie, your secrets safe with us.
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Old 9th April 2009, 02:11 PM   #1360
metamars
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Originally Posted by Galileo View Post

Never challenge Galileo on the evidence. I am the father of modern experimentation.
Really! Tell us, Galileo, what made you change your mind about Aristotle? Or do you just change your mind, for the heck of it, every few hundred years?
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