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Tags 911 conspiracy theory , thermite , wtc1 , wtc2

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Old 9th April 2009, 06:33 PM   #1441
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Quite the contrary. You believe that an office fire is more devastating to structural steel than thermate.
Mod WarningRemoved Rule 12 violation.
Posted By:Tricky
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Old 9th April 2009, 06:35 PM   #1442
alienentity
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Originally Posted by KreeL View Post
So you don't believe that a thermite reaction can do as much to structural steel than an office fire? Amazing
Ah, good question. Just look at the BTU's available in all the office combustibles including carpet, and their distribution in the open floors. Also the FACT that the office materials were actually in the building, as opposed to the SPECULATION that thermite was there as well.

And the further speculation that somehow this (unknown) material was somehow attached (painted? wrapped? baked? fried?) with not one single office worker noticing?

To be perfectly fair we could make a list of all the serious and deadly fires and collapses in the last 30 years caused by a) office fires or b) thermite.

I dunno 'bout you. Seems office fires do a pretty good job of burning things real good.

Bonus point for 'realists' (opposite of 'truthers') is that we know exactly how the WTC fires were started. That's not even speculation.

But in the realm of speculation thermite is much more exciting and sexy to ponder than filing cabinets full of paper, desks and computers. You got us there hands down.
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Old 9th April 2009, 06:35 PM   #1443
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Originally Posted by KreeL View Post
So you don't believe that a thermite reaction can do as much to structural steel than an office fire? Amazing -
That was lame dude, not even close to what he said...
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Old 9th April 2009, 06:35 PM   #1444
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Originally Posted by alienentity View Post
Ah, good question. Just look at the BTU's available in all the office combustibles including carpet, and their distribution in the open floors. Also the FACT that the office materials were actually in the building, as opposed to the SPECULATION that thermite was there as well.

And the further speculation that somehow this (unknown) material was somehow attached (painted? wrapped? baked? fried?) with not one single office worker noticing?

To be perfectly fair we could make a list of all the serious and deadly fires and collapses in the last 30 years caused by a) office fires or b) thermite.

I dunno 'bout you. Seems office fires do a pretty good job of burning things real good.

Bonus point for 'realists' (opposite of 'truthers') is that we know exactly how the WTC fires were started. That's not even speculation.

But in the realm of speculation thermite is much more exciting and sexy to ponder than filing cabinets full of paper, desks and computers. You got us there hands down.
Did office workers notice when they updated the fireproofing in the twin towers?
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Old 9th April 2009, 06:36 PM   #1445
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Originally Posted by KreeL View Post
Quite the contrary. You believe that an office fire is more devastating to structural steel than thermate.
Edited by Tricky:  Removed quoted violation.
Then you should easily be able to demonstrate that magical super duper mega nano therm*te can cut horizontally through steel. Awesome! I'll be waiting.

Last edited by Tricky; 10th April 2009 at 02:26 PM.
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Old 9th April 2009, 06:38 PM   #1446
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If you haven't already realized the reality of that, you have no business being in this thread.
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Old 9th April 2009, 06:40 PM   #1447
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Originally Posted by KreeL View Post
Quite the contrary. You believe that an office fire is more devastating to structural steel than thermate.
Edited by Tricky:  Removed quoted violation.
AFAIK thermite has never once been shown to cut horizontally thru a vertical steel column.

Can you provide a link to correct me if I'm wrong? I always thought thermite responded to gravity by burning straight down.... maybe if you had a hutchison-effect anti-gravity generator attached to it, it might burn sideways, I dunno. ask Dr. Judy.

Last edited by Tricky; 10th April 2009 at 02:26 PM.
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Old 9th April 2009, 06:41 PM   #1448
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And the twoofer dodges yet again. Not that I expected it to actually even attempt to prove its fantasy is possible.
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Old 9th April 2009, 06:42 PM   #1449
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You are proving yourself unsound in your research. At least the other shills know what has already been proven.
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Old 9th April 2009, 06:45 PM   #1450
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Originally Posted by KreeL View Post
Did office workers notice when they updated the fireproofing in the twin towers?
Please provide your proof of such. IIRC it was one tower, and not above the 45th floor.IIRC.
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Old 9th April 2009, 06:47 PM   #1451
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Originally Posted by KreeL View Post
How about you explain why it was there...and how it can't be used to produce the obvious.
None of us with any common sense and experience with thermite or structural steel can distinguish Jonesie's crap from red oxide primer.

If he is half the scientist his fevered little brain pictures him to be, he will make a specimen of the stuff and burn down a few pieces of steel with it.

Otherwise, he has a couple handsful of compost.

It does not, to a rational person, appear to be thermite.

And I see no discription anywhere of what the hundreds of pounds of red, metal-flake-contaminated paint that must have been present in the dust looked like and how it was separated from the faux thermite.

As I recall, they separated the chips with MEK. You know what else dissolves in MEK.

Freaking PAINT.

Catch a clue, if you can.

I think my credentials in arson investigation are far superior to yours or Jonesie's. I see no indication of arson. Live with it.
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Old 9th April 2009, 06:49 PM   #1452
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Originally Posted by KreeL View Post
You are proving yourself unsound in your research. At least the other shills know what has already been proven.
What a sad little person. There's not a single "shill" in the whole world who thinks Steven Jones has proven one goddamn thing. I defy you to find one. And no, twoofers who you think are "disinfo agents" don't count, retard.
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Old 9th April 2009, 06:52 PM   #1453
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Originally Posted by KreeL View Post
If you haven't already realized the reality of that, you have no business being in this thread.
That's funny, since you have no idea what thermite even is, much less nanothermite, and have in fact never participated in anything that could be described as scientific in your entire life. You are embarrassing yourself.
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Old 9th April 2009, 06:58 PM   #1454
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Originally Posted by alienentity View Post
Ah, good question. Just look at the BTU's available in all the office combustibles including carpet, and their distribution in the open floors. Also the FACT that the office materials were actually in the building, as opposed to the SPECULATION that thermite was there as well.....
I doubt that there were many BTU's there at all given they were American buildings in the US city of Noo York.

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Old 9th April 2009, 07:06 PM   #1455
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I have a question about shills. Do they get paid in shillings?
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Old 9th April 2009, 07:09 PM   #1456
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Originally Posted by The Platypus View Post
I have a question about shills. Do they get paid in shillings?
I get paid in Ameros.
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Old 9th April 2009, 07:15 PM   #1457
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Originally Posted by dtugg View Post
I get paid in Ameros.
I've been told I need to work on my content and I only qualify for the leftover sandwiches.
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Old 9th April 2009, 07:21 PM   #1458
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Originally Posted by KreeL View Post
Quite the contrary. You believe that an office fire is more devastating to structural steel than thermate.
Edited by Tricky:  Removed quoted violation.
Thermate! Thermate? Isn't that the caboodle with the Sulphur in it? Damn, I must have missed somthin'. Yo, KreeL! Hey! show me where all this there Sulphur is at? Hmm? Thermate is packed with Sulphur! How come there is no Sulphur in the majority of EDS spectra that Doctor Jones provides?

I don't know what it is about tonight, maybe a full moon, maybe the fact that I have a long Easter Weekend to enjoy, maybe truthers have driven me insane, but I have the notion to reply to the nonsense in the style of movie characters - is the above Eddie Murphy without the bad language?

Last edited by Tricky; 10th April 2009 at 02:27 PM.
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Old 9th April 2009, 07:25 PM   #1459
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Originally Posted by KreeL View Post
Did office workers notice when they updated the fireproofing in the twin towers?
Good point! If they sprayed the thermite overtop the insulation, it would be much less effective.
AFAIK, the old insulation wasn't removed before application of new.

BTW, since Dr. Jones states emphatically that it had to be applied every 2 to 3 floors, all the way down, HOWDEYDOODAT?

Hard to be a truther - so many conspiracy theories, so little evidence. must be very frustrating, unless you don't give a sh*t about evidence. (Oh yeah! I forgot, they don't need evidence! Just allegations and rumors)

This round of Whack-a-troll is getting boring. I'm outta here.
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Old 9th April 2009, 07:26 PM   #1460
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Originally Posted by Sunstealer View Post
Another problem is paramagnetism. On researching further, both Al, Fe2O3 in the form of hematite have these properties. In conclusion with other information I think it's wise to say that the chips would be attracted to a magnet either through paramagnetism or through magnetism. As far as I'm aware (and please anyone correct me if I'm wrong) the intention to use magnets was to separate iron-rich micro-spheres from the dust and not any other material.
Paramagnetism is usually a couple of orders of magnitude weaker than ferromagnetism, where force exerted on a flake by a ferromagnet is concerned -- so I surmise that the magnetic effects have nothing to do with hematite or aluminum, but are instead are caused by pure iron, due to flakes of the steel columns themselves (or some other incidental source of iron) stuck to the paint fragments. Rust layers and spall matches this effect perfectly.

Ferromagnetism is also one of the things that proves it isn't thermite. Iron rather than iron oxide is inert, as far as the basic thermite reaction is concerned. It boggles the mind why this precision-engineered nanononsense would carry such a large fraction of itself as ballast, eating into its precious heat content, which is clearly insufficient given its thin application...

Dr. Greening seems to have picked up on the magnetism as a key counterindicator even faster than I did, over on GregoryUrich's forum. He's right. There's still more reasons that nobody here has listed yet as well.

This thread, however, has become utterly ridiculous. It's a perfect poster child for what the Truth Movement has become. You won't see me around here much if this persists.

Last edited by R.Mackey; 9th April 2009 at 07:29 PM.
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Old 9th April 2009, 07:27 PM   #1461
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Originally Posted by Sunstealer View Post
Thermate! Thermate?

I don't know what it is about tonight, maybe a full moon, maybe the fact that I have a long Easter Weekend to enjoy, maybe truthers have driven me insane, but I have the notion to reply to the nonsense in the style of movie characters - is the above Eddie Murphy without the bad language?
Healthy reaction to truther silliness... Do it! Do it! (ok, what movie is that from?)
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Old 9th April 2009, 07:28 PM   #1462
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Originally Posted by KreeL View Post
Well how about you research a bit for yourself? Have you even read the paper presented?

If the business down the street from you burns down, and in the following investigation it is shown that accelerants were found indicating arson, would you doubt that simply because you don't understand it?
I did read the paper, if you are talking about the new Jones paper. It is poor science, and lacks in the fundamentals, namely rigorous controls, and eliminating (or at least discussing) all other reasonable possibilities prior to your conclusions. It lacks details where they are critical. The scientist in question has not produced the results of independent lab analysis he stated was done on the same chips 2 years ago, either because (A) he did not like their conclusions or (B) he did not have the independent analysis done, or (C) why?

TAM
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Old 9th April 2009, 07:31 PM   #1463
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Partial translation of interview with Niels Harrit, regarding the Bentham paper.

The translation is not 100% accurate, I have tried to remain true to the original meaning not the exact wording.

1:02 Interviewer: What are those chips?

1:04 Niels Harrit: Its nanothermite. That is a, let me take the last part of
the word first. A thermite is a chemical expression for compound that is
pulverized aluminum and rust, pulverized rust. Its an old invention from
1893 and if you can get the compound to react, then it develops an
enormous amount of heat. 2500 degree. Iron is formed in the process
and the hot iron, you can use to melt other iron, you can also use it to
weld railroad tracks.

An old fashion thermite, it develops heat, but in a nanothermite, the
particles are so small and they react with each other so fast that it
beings to reassemble, or it becomes an explosive. You also have the
opportunity to mix other components in, it is more complicated than
just iron and rust, there is more things in it, that makes it an explosive.

2:19 Interviewer: We are going to watch a clip. What are we going to watch?

2:23 Niels Harrit: We going to watch the collapse of the north tower.
Where you can see the explosions directly.
It's like a mushroom cloud everything, is ejected up in the
air.
There is some of those 30 tons steel beam that is ejected
110m away.
There is some of those explosions that is ejected out of
the window, that has speeds of 100 mph.

3:10 Clip of the collapse of the north tower is showed and yellow arrows point to “scribs” below the crush zone.

3:24 Niels Harrit: Ok, the issue about ejection up in the air, pay attention to
the fragments, it is giant steel beams we talking about.
They are ejected up in the air in some large,
it's called parabolic, arch formed, trajectories.

3:34 Interviewer: There was two yellow arrows that indicated
something below the crush zone?

3:39 Niels Harrit: It is obvious explosions, that are set off to early, its
complicated business these things. They (The
scribs/puffs) are well below the crush zone.
The argument where you imagine that the puffs coming
out from the side should be caused by the collapsing floors
are clearly disproved by those yellow arrows.

3:59 Interviewer:If there is some that think, that those that believe in this
are very crazy, can you understand this?

4:04 Niels Harrit: Hehe, If we going to look at what happened. then there
has been a crime, ok?, there is 3000 people that died that
day and there has never been a judicial investigation, police
investigation of that event.
There has never been any evidence presented, there is no
one charged in this case. The police, FBI has
not charged anybody. Nobody is wanted, so i do not know
who is the crazy?

Source:
URL:---.youtube.com/watch?v=nP810ssxyo4



Regards
Scientiae Confidimus

Last edited by Scientiae Confidimus; 9th April 2009 at 07:46 PM. Reason: Minor corrections
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Old 9th April 2009, 07:36 PM   #1464
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Originally Posted by KreeL View Post
You are proving yourself unsound in your research. At least the other shills know what has already been proven.
And what they have disproved champ. Care to comment on any part of Jones' paper or any of the of my refutations? Sorry I was clearing out my ears - you want to know what a refutation is? Sure - it's where I hit you over the head with the facts newbie. You've jumped into this thread and impressed us all with your ability to spam, you've got an A++ for that Barbara, now go for it chump, you can reach the dizzying heights of trutherdom by spouting the usual garbage or you can join us in the real world where we drown our sorrows and insecurities with alcohol.

Mmmn, that's more of a cross between Dr Cox and Bob Kelso from Scrubs - needs more work.
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Old 9th April 2009, 07:42 PM   #1465
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Security Camera Catches perps in WTC towers

This is newly released footage from WTC towers showing government agents posing as insulation specialists. They were overheard shouting 'Do it' as they ripped thru drywall, carpeting, office furniture while removing old insulation and spraying nanothermite gel from grey cylinders strapped to their backs. (not shown in picture). Rumor has it they were both killed immediately afterwards and rendered into sandwich meats, to be fed to government shills on the JREF forum..
The government has refused to release the other photos. I wonder why?


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Old 9th April 2009, 07:49 PM   #1466
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Originally Posted by alienentity View Post
This is newly released footage from WTC towers showing government agents posing as insulation specialists. They were overheard shouting 'Do it' as they ripped thru drywall, carpeting, office furniture while removing old insulation and spraying nanothermite gel from grey cylinders strapped to their backs. (not shown in picture). Rumor has it they were both killed immediately afterwards and rendered into sandwich meats, to be fed to government shills on the JREF forum..
The government has refused to release the other photos. I wonder why?


http://www.internationalskeptics.com...eb1f75bb54.jpg
"Do it....do it!!"

Is that Yiddish? Sounds like it to me.
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Old 9th April 2009, 07:49 PM   #1467
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Ding ding ding

Originally Posted by Sunstealer View Post
Sure - I'm surprised he hasn't had more queries.

The following is from the bottom of page 16 and the top of page 17 of the paper.



Those are the paint specimens I and everyone is interested in - what are they (that requires detail). I presume that this same paint was used for all of the testing comparisons.

I'd also ask why that particular type of paint was chosen as opposed to any other.
I submitted your post as the paint question. Actually, I broke it up into 2 questions, the last line in the quote above being question #2.
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Old 9th April 2009, 07:55 PM   #1468
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
In the Boston lecture in december 2007 he introduced the unreacted thermite for the first time I believe. I think he said something about independent testing at that lecture.Keep us informed of the email exchange if you would.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...67030316250&ei Boston lecture
You're correct. I just sent Professor Jones the following


Quote:
At the Boston Conference, 12/15/07, you announced the chips, and furthermore said "I've provided red chips samples, now, to an independent laboratory for testing, with the question to them do they agree, do they find, that these red chips are a form of thermite."


You say this at 50:30, in the video as posted at Google, viz., http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...67030316250&ei
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Old 9th April 2009, 07:56 PM   #1469
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Originally Posted by KreeL View Post
If you haven't already realized the reality of that, you have no business being in this thread.
And please good citizen, speak, what business do the seek dear friend? There are plenty of malchecks that need a right tolchecking dear friend, are thoust one?
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Old 9th April 2009, 07:56 PM   #1470
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Originally Posted by The Platypus View Post
Is there even such a thing in existance as military grade nano thermite?
Only Peter Pan knows for sure.
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Old 9th April 2009, 08:00 PM   #1471
Sunstealer
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Originally Posted by The Platypus View Post
I have a question about shills. Do they get paid in shillings?
Shillings! Shillings! What sort o' bloody fancy wage are you on! There be nowt, but penance and pence in this 'ere NWO and don't you forget about it, you......

Last edited by Sunstealer; 9th April 2009 at 08:22 PM.
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Old 9th April 2009, 08:06 PM   #1472
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Originally Posted by metamars View Post
You're correct. I just sent Professor Jones the following
Metamars I also have a couple of links from 911Blogger should the Doctor need them. They were posted above.

In them he says he sent the samples to a SECOND lab.

I am disturbed however, that Dr. Jones claims he cannot remember sending these samples to TWO independent labs.

It calls into question the validity of the paper, would you not agree?
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Old 9th April 2009, 08:08 PM   #1473
Sparky
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Kreel,

I am going to take you down tomorrow when I get to work with the NFPA 72 test fire results. I expect you to match my evidence with yours or I expect you to disappear.

Deal?
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Old 9th April 2009, 08:16 PM   #1474
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Originally Posted by Scientiae Confidimus View Post
Partial translation of interview with Niels Harrit, regarding the Bentham paper.

The translation is not 100% accurate, I have tried to remain true to the original meaning not the exact wording.

1:02 Interviewer: What are those chips?

1:04 Niels Harrit: Its nanothermite. That is a, let me take the last part of
the word first. A thermite is a chemical expression for compound that is
pulverized aluminum and rust, pulverized rust. Its an old invention from
1893 and if you can get the compound to react, then it develops an
enormous amount of heat. 2500 degree. Iron is formed in the process
and the hot iron, you can use to melt other iron, you can also use it to
weld railroad tracks.

An old fashion thermite, it develops heat, but in a nanothermite, the
particles are so small and they react with each other so fast that it
beings to reassemble, or it becomes an explosive. You also have the
opportunity to mix other components in, it is more complicated than
just iron and rust, there is more things in it, that makes it an explosive.

2:19 Interviewer: We are going to watch a clip. What are we going to watch?

2:23 Niels Harrit: We going to watch the collapse of the north tower.
Where you can see the explosions directly.
It's like a mushroom cloud everything, is ejected up in the
air.
There is some of those 30 tons steel beam that is ejected
110m away.
There is some of those explosions that is ejected out of
the window, that has speeds of 100 mph.

3:10 Clip of the collapse of the north tower is showed and yellow arrows point to “scribs” below the crush zone.

3:24 Niels Harrit: Ok, the issue about ejection up in the air, pay attention to
the fragments, it is giant steel beams we talking about.
They are ejected up in the air in some large,
it's called parabolic, arch formed, trajectories.

3:34 Interviewer: There was two yellow arrows that indicated
something below the crush zone?

3:39 Niels Harrit: It is obvious explosions, that are set off to early, its
complicated business these things. They (The
scribs/puffs) are well below the crush zone.
The argument where you imagine that the puffs coming
out from the side should be caused by the collapsing floors
are clearly disproved by those yellow arrows.

3:59 Interviewer:If there is some that think, that those that believe in this
are very crazy, can you understand this?

4:04 Niels Harrit: Hehe, If we going to look at what happened. then there
has been a crime, ok?, there is 3000 people that died that
day and there has never been a judicial investigation, police
investigation of that event.
There has never been any evidence presented, there is no
one charged in this case. The police, FBI has
not charged anybody. Nobody is wanted, so i do not know
who is the crazy?

Source:
URL:---.youtube.com/watch?v=nP810ssxyo4



Regards
Scientiae Confidimus
Interesting. His description of the difference between thermite and nano-thermite is very helpful. Thanks for taking the time to translate this.
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Old 9th April 2009, 08:19 PM   #1475
Sunstealer
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Originally Posted by KreeL View Post
Have you even read the paper presented?
Skimmed, then read more fully with an careful eye for the first part namely samples a-d, then analysed that part adn found some of the text wanting. I've moved on past the BSE data and the DSC data and looked at those closely - I've more than likely spent 10x the time any truther has spent reading it let alone analysing it, yet I'm not even up to fully examining page 19 plus and the meat therein. How about you?

If there was evidence of thermite (nano or otherwise) in the paper then I would be showing that right here, right now and providing additional sources to support the position. So far I've had next to no critical examination of my explanations from the truthers here.

Can you imagine what this JREF thread would be like if I had claimed there was evidence of thermite and backed Jones' paper? There would be so many good questions I would be swamped (and I'd be more than happy and prepared to keep answering those questions in a proper manner), but nope only one or two people who suspect a conspiracy have asked good solid questions - the rest has been dross.

Ask away.
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Old 9th April 2009, 08:34 PM   #1476
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Originally Posted by alienentity View Post
Good point! If they sprayed the thermite overtop the insulation, it would be much less effective.
AFAIK, the old insulation wasn't removed before application of new.

BTW, since Dr. Jones states emphatically that it had to be applied every 2 to 3 floors, all the way down, HOWDEYDOODAT?

Hard to be a truther - so many conspiracy theories, so little evidence. must be very frustrating, unless you don't give a sh*t about evidence. (Oh yeah! I forgot, they don't need evidence! Just allegations and rumors)

This round of Whack-a-troll is getting boring. I'm outta here.
So did office workers notice when they upgraded the fireproofing or not?

What were the upgrades? Who performed them? What security clearance did they have? Who was in charge of security?

Do you believe that a day went by in the history of the twin towers that office workers didn't see any maintenance personnel?

You shills better not be getting paid - you're worthless.
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Old 9th April 2009, 08:37 PM   #1477
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I think that Kreel is a disinfo agent. He is doing a marvelous job of making twoofers look like complete morons.
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Old 9th April 2009, 08:47 PM   #1478
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Originally Posted by Sparky View Post
Kreel,

I am going to take you down tomorrow when I get to work with the NFPA 72 test fire results. I expect you to match my evidence with yours or I expect you to disappear.

Deal?
Bump for Kreel.

You've got a big mouth.

Willing to back it up?
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Old 9th April 2009, 08:51 PM   #1479
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Originally Posted by KreeL View Post

You shills better not be getting paid - you're worthless.
And then you actually wonder why everyone thinks your a brainwashed nutjob in a cult?
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Old 9th April 2009, 08:51 PM   #1480
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I simply drop logic bombs all over the place and see how many shill carcasses stack up all around me. If you knew how many times I've seen the idiocy from hackjobs that say/spout things like 'It's impossible to dooooooo...' 'thermite isn't an explosiiiiiive...' 'thermite can't cut a vertical beeeeaaaamm'. Blah, blah, blah, and they lie through their teeth, or they are just plain ignorant, because they have nothing else.

Don't get me wrong. There are a few that will at least try to argue the physics of the collapse. Usually by assigning 0MJ to concrete pulverization, because the Law of Energy Conservation requires them to fudge with the numbers. But hey, that's at least more entertaining than Sparky claiming 'I'm gonna get you man!'. LOL

Wake up and look at what happened on 9/11 and soon after. Look who benefitted.

The scrub up job of the evidence was as good as they could get it. But surely even you guys have to concede they couldn't keep everything a secret forever. The truth is out. Empirical scientific proof is there. Pretty hard to keep up the weak denials with new independent laboratory confirmations of such. It really doesn't hurt my feelings in the slightest because I wasn't duped to begin with.
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