Lambda-CDM theory - Woo or not?

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Nobody is "assuming" anything. People are observing AND experimenting. And this gives us restrictions on what the particles can be. Much like we had restrictions on the top quark long before a top quark was ever created in the lab.

There were a few points I wanted to make from the part of your post I skipped last night. First of all, if you look at that A)-G) list of assumptions I listed on the Fermi claims, it's very clear they *ASSUME* a half dozen or so things about nonbaryonic 'DM' that have *NEVER* been demonstrated, starting with their very existence, their longevity, their ability to annihilate, long distance forces that affect them, their speed, etc. None of these things were ever demonstrated. It's based upon a whole list of non sequiturs.

Its there. We can't see it. Therefore its invisible. And by the way, the neutrino is invisible.

Just because our technology is still rather limited and we can't see it, that does *NOT* mean that it is "invisible". We simply don't see it due to the great distances involved.


On the issue of nuetrinos being nonbaryonic in nature, I don't care if a neutrino is a form of non baryonic matter. It has already been identified and verified in standard empirical experiments. It is a known part of standard particle theory. Even the very proposal of such a particle came from *ACTIVE EXPERIMENTATION* in the standard scientific manner. You're really hurting your own argument IMO by even making this comparison because neutrinos are known to exist and were "discovered" in "empirical tests", not point at the sky exercises.
 
Sure, but dead stars would also be difficult to spot. Anything that isn't emitting a lot of light is going to be missed completely. The dust in the galaxies and in between galaxies could also block (evidently does) more light than you realize and some of these stars may be much larger than you realize. There are many possible reasons why these mathematical models may be incorrect.
We're not talking about models. We're talking about observations.

Well, "wrong" in what sense? I see nothing wrong with the basic lensing theories, nor anything wrong with deducing that there is some form of matter that is responsible for that lensing process. I see no evidence that any of that matter is 'non-baryonic' with the exception of neutrinos, which we all seem to agree is one form of non-baryonic matter that actually does exist in nature.
So why suggest it could be electrons?

Yes and no. Yes, they create patterns and magnetic fields in plasma and they scatter light too, but that presupposes that you *WANT* to find them, and you realize what you're looking at. When they spot a 'slinky' in space, that *SHOULD* make them realize that electrons and current flow are involved in the process, but they didn't say a word about it. It's all "magnetic yada yada yada", and not a mention of a single electron.
So astronomers are actively not looking for them?

There are no more particle physics interactions that we do not profess to "understand" in ordinary (standard) particle physics. SUSY theory is not required to explain any observation from the study of particles.
Erm. This is completely incorrect. Both SUSY particles and axions are possible solutions to outstanding problems in particle physics. There are other solutions but I doubt you'd like them anymore (extra dimensions). The suggestion that these particles could be the DM we're looking for is, in a sense, trying to kill two birds with one stone. They could solve two problems in physics with only one adaption in our understanding of physics.

Everything on your list are things we can physically test for and that were typically proposed due to something seen in a *CONTROLLED* test that could otherwise not be explained.
Likewise, SUSY particles and axions. Namely the experimentally observed difference between gravity and the weak force (SUSY) and the experimental observation that any CP violation by the strong force is very very small.

Compare and contrast that to pointing at distant objects in the sky and slapping on behaviors to new forms of matter only so they will fit into the theory. It's completely different.
See above. SUSY and axions are proposals independent of dark matter observations.

A MACHO mass form makes no real extraordinary claims. We already know we've found planets we could not see with our older technology and we all know we'll see more when the technology improves. There is nothing "extraordinary" in that proposal.
You're completely undermining your own argument by telling us we can see distant planets. These are generally much harder to observe than larger mass bodies. But we can still observe them. Its only reasonable, therefore, that our accounting of larger bodies is pretty good.

If however I claimed it was due to invisible friends, that would be an extraordinary claim and would require extraordinary supporting evidence.
Nobody is claiming it is due to "invisible friends". Just invisible matter.

Each of these things was proposed due to what was learn in *CONTROLLED* tests.
Likewise SUY particles and axions and heavy neutrinos. Thank you for illustrating my point so excellently.

But there is nothing missing from standard particle theory with the exception of the Higgs.
Nope. See above.

Everything else has been seen and identified and accounted for now.

There's no need for additional particles or any verified evidence for them.
Well apart from anything, we're still missing a graviton. And there is most certainly evidence that the SM is, shall we say, "incomplete".

Fine. All that demonstrates is that there is matter in these galaxies that your theories did not account for. I still have no idea what that material is made of.
But we know what it isn't made of.

My "missingness" comment was supposed to by humorous by the way. Ok, fine it doesn't radiate much in the way of photons. We'll go that far.
Woo. Progress.
 
There were a few points I wanted to make from the part of your post I skipped last night. First of all, if you look at that A)-G) list of assumptions I listed on the Fermi claims, it's very clear they *ASSUME* a half dozen or so things about nonbaryonic 'DM' that have *NEVER* been demonstrated, starting with their very existence, their longevity, their ability to annihilate, long distance forces that affect them, their speed, etc. None of these things were ever demonstrated. It's based upon a whole list of non sequiturs.
Its an experiment. Looking for theoretical signatures. if they find them great. But they'll have to go through an immense amount of proving it isn't something else before anyone takes them seriously. Because that's how science works. Interestingly, I didn't see you raising similar arguments to the "dark flow" observations. Which had just as much "pointing a telescope" and "fitting of equations". But you were quite happy to try to use that in this thread weren't you? The stench of double standards is overwhelming.

Just because our technology is still rather limited and we can't see it, that does *NOT* mean that it is "invisible". We simply don't see it due to the great distances involved.
Rubbish. Compared to cosmological distances we don't have to look very far at all to ....err... not see it.

On the issue of nuetrinos being nonbaryonic in nature, I don't care if a neutrino is a form of non baryonic matter. It has already been identified and verified in standard empirical experiments. It is a known part of standard particle theory.
Indeed.

Even the very proposal of such a particle came from *ACTIVE EXPERIMENTATION* in the standard scientific manner.
Just like the SUSY particle and axions are predictions arising from active experimentation.

You're really hurting your own argument IMO by even making this comparison because neutrinos are known to exist and were "discovered" in "empirical tests", not point at the sky exercises.
I would find it hard to disagree more.
 
Its an experiment.

No, it is absolutely *NOT* an "experiment". They are simply *OBSERVING* events in space, and have *zero* in the way of "control mechanisms". No cause/effect relationships can be established that way.

Looking for theoretical signatures.

Every single one of those "theoretical properties" are entirely "made up". No non-baryonic SUSY particles have ever been verified. No such particle ever released a gamma ray. No SUSY particle has ever been influenced by a "new force" of nature . No SUSY particle has been shown to emit more gamma rays due to some influence of a NEW force of nature. No "experiment" was ever done to verify any of these claims related to the "properties" of the SUSY particle. The "properties" are entirely MADE UP in a completely ad-hoc manner just so they can compare them to gamma rays in the sky. They are then trying to compare all these made up properties to what they observe in space. That isn't science. That is myth making. You can't point at objects in space and claim: "DM did it because DM has all these properties that I arbitrarily assigned to DM so they would match what I'm pointing at in the sky."

if they find them great.

Find them? How can they "find" something based on a begging the question fallacy? "If invisible elves exists and they fart gamma rays, then I might see them in the sky, and I do see gamma rays in the sky, so invisible farting elves did it!" The whole process is a giant circular feedback loop based on a begging the question fallacy.

They can never, ever, ever find anything in space to verify these claims about DM. They could only find that kind of corroboration in a real experiment with real control mechanisms, that demonstrates that these properties of DM are valid.

But they'll have to go through an immense amount of proving it isn't something else before anyone takes them seriously.

This is another of those "techniques" that is often misused in astronomy in a less than ethical fashion. I can't "rule out" other possibilities and give my gamma ray farting, invisible elf theory validity in some bizarre process of elimination. It doesn't matter how many other options I might rule out, farting elves didn't automatically do it because I eliminated other options.

Because that's how science works. Interestingly, I didn't see you raising similar arguments to the "dark flow" observations. Which had just as much "pointing a telescope" and "fitting of equations". But you were quite happy to try to use that in this thread weren't you? The stench of double standards is overwhelming.

Nope. I never claimed anything about the makeup of the "Dark flow", nor did I assign any 'properties' to the flow in a purely ad hoc manner.

Just like the SUSY particle and axions are predictions arising from active experimentation.

They haven't been verified yet either. Nobody knows how long they may last even if they actually do exist. They could be revert back to another form of ordinary matter in millisconds, or decay in seconds. Nobody knows if they annihilate and release gamma rays. Nobody has verified any "property" of any SUSY particle. These mythical properties are pure ad hoc creations so that astronomers can engage in point at sky and add math exercises.
 
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We're not talking about models. We're talking about observations.

FYI, I'm going to pick your last post apart into small chunks because I'm busy and it's easier if we focus on a few key points.

These are not simple "observations". These are "observations" that are being compared to "galaxy mass estimation models". Where estimations don't jive with observations, we're adding "dark matter". There is more than a simple observation going on here. If the galaxy mass estimation process was accurate, it wouldn't disagree with observation, and we wouldn't need "dark matter" to fill in the gaps. DM is a handy "gap filler" between "theory" and "observation".

So astronomers are actively not looking for them?

Not only are they *NOT* looking for them, they are actively attempting to deny their existence. They continually refer to these as "magnetic" events. There are not "magnetic" events, they are "electromagnetic" events that include the flow of charge particles, or in other words, "current flow". To listen to the papers and press releases however, these mass flows are always treated as though they are driven by magnetic field and the fast moving charged particles are never referred to as "current flow", just "gasses" or "plasma" with no reference whatsoever to electrical energy. It's all "magnetic yada yada" this, "magnetic" yada yada that. Never do they even mention the evil word "electricity".

Go over and look at the rules posted at Bad Astronomy (appropriately named at least). They literally hold "witch trials" anytime anyone dares to even mention the term "electricity" or "electric" in association with anything that occurs in space. That's a microcosmic and online example of everything that is wrong with this industry.
 
Dark Matter and Science

Due to the extreme distances between stars in a given galaxy, any "collision" between galaxies will result in full solar systems passing right through each other virtually undisturbed.
When galaxies collide, very few of the stars will collide. But the idea of full solar systems remaining "virtually undisturbed" is just wrong. All one need do is look at the observed results of colliding galaxies (HST: Cosmic Collisions Galore, Super Star Clusters in the Antennae Galaxies) or see what the simulations look like (HST: simulation of M31 - Milky Way collision, Max Planck Institute: Colliding galaxies light up dormant black holes) to see that "virtually undisturbed" is inaccurate at best. While individual stars might not collide, individual solar systems could easily be torn apart by tidal stress. But more importantly, large clouds of gas & dust that permeate galaxies most certainly will slam into each other, resulting in triggered star formation and copious amounts of radiation from long wavelength radio to short wavelength X-rays. Clearly any solar systems in or near these extensive clouds will be far from "undisturbed".

All this lensing data tells me is that you grossly underestimate the amount of mass inside stars and solar systems, ...
Explain how, in detail, you know or think this to be true. How do you reconcile this claim against the determination of stellar masses in the local universe by direct observation and dynamical analysis (i.e., binary orbits)?

In no way does this demonstrate that DM is nonbaryonic. You *ASSUMED* that.
Yes and no. You talk like it is some kind of random assumption while deliberately ignoring the observational evidence that the "dark matter" is in fact non-baryonic. I have explained this to you several times already, and you ignore it every time (here it is again). If the dark matter in the Milky Way halo were baryonic we would definitely see it but we don't. If the dark matter in the milky way halo were in the form of compact objects, whether baryonic or non-baryonic, we definitely would have seen it but we don't. Those are facts of nature whether you like it or not, so how do you deal with them?

In the case of the "bullet cluster" colliding galaxies (1E 0657-56), individual galaxies are as unlikely to collide directly as are individual stars when galaxies collide. But just as the large clouds of dust & gas do collide when galaxies collide, so does the intracluster medium of the two galaxy clusters collide. As demonstrated in Clowe, at al., 2006, we can see all of the intracluster gas traced by the X-ray emission, and we can see by the lensing data that the gravitational mass is concentrated where the galaxies are and not where the intracluster baryonic gas is. So if we ignore everything else we know about galaxies, then we can safely assume that one of 3 alternatives must be true:
  1. We have the mass of the galaxies wrong.
  2. We have the law of gravity wrong.
  3. There is non-baryonic dark matter in the system.
Number 1 is the least likely. We have a good handle on the mass luminosity relationships for stars and gas and know quite well, from multiwavelength studies of galaxies that the luminous matter does not account for the mass. Observations of our own Milky Way, and galaxies in the local universe, rule out every reasonable baryonic alternative. In all cases we should be able to see a baryonic dark matter halo that is 10 times more massive than the luminous matter. In all cases we do not see it.

While determining the mass of a galaxy has its difficulties and uncertainties, determining the mass of stars & molecular clouds is a far more precise & accurate affair. There is no doubt at all that the luminous mass represents only about 10% of the dynamical mass of an individual galaxy, and there is no doubt at all that the combined luminous mass of the galaxies in a cluster represent only about 10% of the dynamical mass of the galaxy cluster (determined via the virial theorem). So, either the dark matter is baryonic or it's not. Clearly some fraction of it obviously is baryonic, but no more than 20% of the dark matter can be baryonic while remaining consistent with observational constraints (i.e., Freese, 2008, Alcock, et al., 2000).

Number 2 is slightly more likely, but still worthy of attention. There are a zillion papers studying various alternative formulations for the law of gravity, but none has yet produced results that one could call definitive, nor are there any studies that have inspired confidence in the community that this may be the case.

The fact is that the observational evidence for non-baryonic dark matter is considerable. A detailed & extensive review of the evidence for dark matter particles can be found, for instance, in Bertone, Hooper & Silk, 2005 and references therein.

The demand that dark matter particles be seen in a laboratory before being accepted in nature or physics is not just unscientific, it is antiscientific. You have already explicitly denied that any observation outside of a controlled laboratory experiment is "empirical" and on that point you are hopelessly wrong. In one step you eliminate astronomy, geology, meteorology, zoology, and a host of field sciences from consideration as "science". Controlled laboratory experiments obviously have value, but they cannot substitute for real observations of the real universe as it really is. In every case, controlled laboratory experiments, because they are "controlled", can at best only approximate nature. We must expect that many natural phenomena cannot ever be observed in a laboratory, and that many more will be observed in nature before they can be replicated in a controlled environment. This is a critical aspect of science, and by denying it any empirical validity, you literally abandon science altogether.
 
Nope. I never claimed anything about the makeup of the "Dark flow", nor did I assign any 'properties' to the flow in a purely ad hoc manner.
You rather enjoyed telling us all how it falsified LCDM. And yet the dark flow observation was of the observe with a telescope then calculate some number. The same kind of experiment you're objecting to now and telling us isn't an experiment at all. You don't think that's at all hypocritical?

They haven't been verified yet either.
So? The neutrino existed before it was discovered in a lab. The photon existed before it was discovered in a lab etc etc.

Nobody knows how long they may last even if they actually do exist.
The theories give numbers. Which guess what? Makes them falsifiable!

They could be revert back to another form of ordinary matter in millisconds, or decay in seconds.
And then they would no longer be a dark matter candidate. Obviously. This wouldn't stop the need for there being dark matter to explain countless independent observations.

Nobody knows if they annihilate and release gamma rays. Nobody has verified any "property" of any SUSY particle.
The theories make predictions for such decay mechanisms. Which makes the theories falsifiable. Something you previously denied.

These mythical properties are pure ad hoc creations so that astronomers can engage in point at sky and add math exercises.
Completely incorrect. The properties of SUSY particles are those suggested from experiments at CERN, Fermilab, etc etc. The properties of dark matter are those gleaned from observational experiment of galaxies, galaxy clusters etc. While the two properties are consistent, SUSY particles will remain dark matter candidates.
 
FYI, I'm going to pick your last post apart into small chunks because I'm busy and it's easier if we focus on a few key points.

These are not simple "observations". These are "observations" that are being compared to "galaxy mass estimation models". Where estimations don't jive with observations, we're adding "dark matter". There is more than a simple observation going on here. If the galaxy mass estimation process was accurate, it wouldn't disagree with observation, and we wouldn't need "dark matter" to fill in the gaps. DM is a handy "gap filler" between "theory" and "observation".
Nope. These are observations being compared with observations.

Not only are they *NOT* looking for them, they are actively attempting to deny their existence. They continually refer to these as "magnetic" events. There are not "magnetic" events, they are "electromagnetic" events that include the flow of charge particles, or in other words, "current flow". To listen to the papers and press releases however, these mass flows are always treated as though they are driven by magnetic field and the fast moving charged particles are never referred to as "current flow", just "gasses" or "plasma" with no reference whatsoever to electrical energy. It's all "magnetic yada yada" this, "magnetic" yada yada that. Never do they even mention the evil word "electricity".
Yada yada indeed.

Go over and look at the rules posted at Bad Astronomy (appropriately named at least). They literally hold "witch trials" anytime anyone dares to even mention the term "electricity" or "electric" in association with anything that occurs in space. That's a microcosmic and online example of everything that is wrong with this industry.
Hehe. Now that truly is ridiculous:
"They literally hold "witch trials""
So how many people have they drowned? How many have been burnt at the stake?
 
You rather enjoyed telling us all how it falsified LCDM. And yet the dark flow observation was of the observe with a telescope then calculate some number. The same kind of experiment you're objecting to now and telling us isn't an experiment at all. You don't think that's at all hypocritical?

NO! I didn't create the Lambda-CMD theory. I didn't make it fail it's only key "prediction" either. I did not assign any "special" or "unique" properties to "dark matter." I didn't claim it was nonbaryonic. I didn't claim it emitted anything during annihilation or that it was "cold" or "clumpy". I didn't claim NEW FIELDS OF NATURE have some influence on that process either. Totally different issues.

So? The neutrino existed before it was discovered in a lab. The photon existed before it was discovered in a lab etc etc.

Neither of them was proposed based on anything but a "controlled experiment". Both of them have been demonstrated in controlled experiments too. Compare and contrast that with all the make believe properties assigned to non-baryonic forms of "dark matter".

The theories give numbers. Which guess what? Makes them falsifiable!

If so, BB theories would be DOA a dozen times over. They keep fudging the numbers to make things fit. They will continue to do so too every time something doesn't fit right.

The theories make predictions for such decay mechanisms.

Which prediction, the first or the more recent one? The first one didn't predict any amount of observable emissions. They fudged the numbers with a *WHOLE NEW FORCE OF NATURE* they tossed into the equations just to make them increase the 'predicted number of events'. There's no rhyme nor reason to adding a whole new force of nature, just so you can make it fit distant events. You guys do it ALL THE TIME.

Which makes the theories falsifiable. Something you previously denied.
That isn't "falsifiable". You have to VERIFY it exists first! You also have to verify it does decay or it doesn't. *THEN* and only then can you point to the sky using real "predictions" based on experimental data that *MIGHT* allow you to falsify that concept. As it stands I have to *BELIEVE* (as in have faith) in a dozen different assertions, all of which are entirely "ad hoc", all of which are entirely begging the question, and none of which I can actually falsify or verify. Those "numbers" they came up with were completely contrived in order to make them fit the OBSERVATION the found in the balloon data.

Completely incorrect. The properties of SUSY particles are those suggested from experiments at CERN, Fermilab, etc etc.

Not one verified SUSY particle exists. No "property" was ever determined in controlled experimentation. It's purely an ad hoc assertion that these experiments will *EVER* find verified evidence of the existence of any SUSY particle and none of them may live more than a second or two for all we know.

The properties of dark matter are those gleaned from observational experiment of galaxies,

Boloney. Tell me which observations demonstrate this gem:

Kuhlen, together with Piero Madau at the University of California in Santa Cruz, US, and Joseph Silk at the University of Oxford, UK, decided to see whether these observations could be explained if dark-matter annihilation rates were boosted by an effect known as the Sommerfield enhancement.

Huh? What "Sommerfield enhancement" observations were ever made with DM? How about this gem:?

In this effect, a long range force - which would manifest as either a conventional weak-force boson or a new force carrier

A new force carrier was observed too?

Come on. They literally made this all up just so they could make it fit a specific observation:

Past simulations of dark matter for a galaxy like our own Milky Way have always predicted annihilations to be so rare that telescopes would barely be able to detect the resultant gamma-rays and other particles above the universe’s background. Last year, however, the European satellite PAMELA and the international balloon-borne experiment ATIC recorded excesses of positrons and electrons respectively, hinting at dark-matter annihilation.

So what they did is fudge the numbers based on mythical new forces of nature just to make their old "prediction" match some specific observation. That whole statement about positrons and electrons hinting at DM is purely an ad hoc assertion and begging the question. Never did they demonstrate a thing related to any of the properties they assigned to the particle. It's all on big curve fitting exercise with invisible magical elves.
 
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Nope. These are observations being compared with observations.

No it's not. You wouldn't need "dark matter" if it was.

"They literally hold "witch trials""
So how many people have they drowned? How many have been burnt at the stake?

Beats me. Go look up the growing list of the folks they've "banned" over there. I know for a fact that they virtually executed me twice. First they virtually lynched me because of my electrical heresies, and they lynched me again because I came back under a different handle and put their feet to the fire. I scrutinized their beliefs like they tried to scrutinize mine and they got all upset. They even changed the whole rule system during that timeframe just to kill my thread (and a couple more too) so that they could stop the dissent that was going on. They imposed a draconian "30 day rule" where dissent is no longer allowed to continue beyond a month. That is highly unprofessional and unethical behavior.
 
NO! I didn't create the Lambda-CMD theory. I didn't make it fail it key "prediction" either. I did not assign any "special" or "unique" properties to "dark matter." I didn't claim it was nonbaryonic. I didn't claim it emitted anything during annihilation or that it was "cold" or "clumpy". I didn't claim NEW FIELDS OF NATURE have some influence on that process either. Totally different issues.
But you did claim that the dark flow paper falsified LCDM. And you have claimed that astronomical observations don't count as contorlled experiements. That makes you a hypocrite.

Neither of them was proposed based on anything but a "controlled experiment". Both of them have been demonstrated in controlled experiments too. Compare and contrast that with all the make believe properties assigned to non-baryonic forms of "dark matter".
The properties of SUSY particles and axions are based on the results of particle physics experiments. Whether these do correspond to the observed dark matter is another matter entirely. But their postulated properties are based on a whole load of lab-based data.

If so, BB theories would be DOA a dozen times over. They keep fudging the numbers to make things fit. They will continue to do so too everything something doesn't fit right.
No they don't.

Which prediction, the first or the more recent one? The first one didn't predict any amount of observable emissions. They fudged the numbers with a *WHOLE NEW FORCE OF NATURE* they tossed into the equations just to make them increase the 'predicted number of events'. There's no rhyme nor reason to adding a whole new force of nature, just so you can make it fit distant events. You guys do it ALL THE TIME.
The predictions of the MSSM for example.

That isn't "falsifiable". You have to VERIFY it exists first!
Er no. Since showing that it doesn't exist will have falsified it. If you're going to make such ridiculous statements there really is not point in continuing.
 
But you did claim that the dark flow paper falsified LCDM. And you have claimed that astronomical observations don't count as contorlled experiements. That makes you a hypocrite.

Not in the least. I never suggested you could not 'falsify" an idea based on observation. I simply said you could not "verify" the existence of half a dozen assumed "properties" of DM based on uncontrolled observations of gamma rays in space. Totally different issues.

The properties of SUSY particles and axions are based on the results of particle physics experiments. Whether these do correspond to the observed dark matter is another matter entirely. But their postulated properties are based on a whole load of lab-based data.

That is not so. There is no "lab-based data" to demonstrate that DM emits gamma rays, or that it "clumps" or that it is "cold". The authors made these things up based on a theoretical particle from a *THEORETICAL* branch of particle physics. Worse yet, they added a whole bunch of new properties based on *NEW FORCES OF NATURE* no less.


No they don't.

Yes they do! They first came up with a number that would not show up in measurements derived from our current technologies. After they found an excess of positrons and electrons (something Alfven predicted by the way), they then fudged the numbers to come up with something that might 'fit" the observation. The math is completely "made up" to fit a specific observation. It's built upon more than a half dozen assumptions about the "properties" of DM.

1) It's non-baryonic
2) It's long lasting
3) It's cold
4) It's "clumpy"
5) It emits gamma rays when it "decays"
6) It emits more gamma rays when in the presence of a new form of energy that is unspecified in the article.
7) It's "slow"

Not one of these so called "properties" can actually be verified by controlled experimentation. All of them were created "ad hoc" based on an attempt to "make it fit" some "specific" observation, in this case an excess of positrons and electrons. Not a single one of these "assumptions" has ever been demonstrated. I am simply supposed to take the statements "on faith" and then allow them to point to the sky and add math to verify each and every one of these 7 assumed properties of DM. Give me a break. Suppose I made up a theory about invisible elves and assigned them 7 distinct "properties" I could not verify in any way, and then tried to explain solar events with them and I included math. Would you accept the notion that because my mathematical predictions of gamma rays from the sun happen to match observation, that these gamma rays from the sun now demonstrate the validity of the 7 assumed properties of elves, and elves exist, and elves release gamma rays on the sun?
 
Given MM's intense fascination with images, I think this recent Cosmic Variance blog entry, on gravitational lensing of a distant galaxy by a foreground cluster, might set off some fireworks: Guest Post: Evalyn Gates on Cosmic Magnification (or — Invasion of the Giant Blue Space Amoebas).

I wonder on which page in the 994-page Birkeland tome one may see *EMPIRICAL*, *laboratory* replicas of this lensing? And on which page of Alfvén's work, the one MM cites above all others, is the theoretical basis for this lensing laid out, in detail, together with an account of its *quantitative* consistency?
 
Given MM's intense fascination with images, I think this recent Cosmic Variance blog entry, on gravitational lensing of a distant galaxy by a foreground cluster, might set off some fireworks: Guest Post: Evalyn Gates on Cosmic Magnification (or — Invasion of the Giant Blue Space Amoebas)

Great one!

It says:

"So what does this tell us? The model of the lens outlines the (projected 2D) mass profile of the cluster – which doesn’t seem to agree with numerical simulations for clusters, assuming a standard ΛCDM cosmology. The mass concentration in the center of the cluster is higher than predicted, a result that has also been found for other massive clusters studied with gravitational lensing. This implies that we’re either missing some physics in our simulations, or we may need to modify our cosmological model."

There is still a lot for us to learn, that's for sure!
 
Given MM's intense fascination with images, I think this recent Cosmic Variance blog entry, on gravitational lensing of a distant galaxy by a foreground cluster, might set off some fireworks: Guest Post: Evalyn Gates on Cosmic Magnification (or — Invasion of the Giant Blue Space Amoebas).

I wonder on which page in the 994-page Birkeland tome one may see *EMPIRICAL*, *laboratory* replicas of this lensing? And on which page of Alfvén's work, the one MM cites above all others, is the theoretical basis for this lensing laid out, in detail, together with an account of its *quantitative* consistency?


From the article;

"So what does this tell us? The model of the lens outlines the (projected 2D) mass profile of the cluster – which doesn’t seem to agree with numerical simulations for clusters, assuming a standard ΛCDM cosmology. The mass concentration in the center of the cluster is higher than predicted, a result that has also been found for other massive clusters studied with gravitational lensing. This implies that we’re either missing some physics in our simulations, or we may need to modify our cosmological model."


Let me see if I have this right.

They process the images based on the assumption that the "blue galaxies" are lensed by the "foreground" cluster. They convolve the images to some shape and measure the mass concentration in the images. If this does not match the ΛCDM model then they say there is dark matter there?

That is insane. Religion. Too much faith in their beautiful equations. Incorrect use of a computer. Danger Will Robinson.....

I would choose option B except I dont think that modify is a strong enough word. I would choose "falsify"..
 
This is a silly argument IMO. Due to the extreme distances between stars in a given galaxy, any "collision" between galaxies will result in full solar systems passing right through each other virtually undisturbed. Depending on the relative speed of the collision, the likelihood of solar systems in the galaxy even being influenced much by a star in the colliding galaxy is small. Most stars and solar systems will not actually "collide", but pass right through each other. All this lensing data tells me is that you grossly underestimate the amount of mass inside stars and solar systems, and you probably have the ISM about right. In no way does this demonstrate that DM is nonbaryonic. You *ASSUMED* that.
I see you are doing your usual "I shall ignore most of the post and display my inability to undestand what is being described" thing.

Nowhere in my post do I mention stars or galaxies (which act exactly as you state).
The entire post is about the majority of matter in the galactic clusters - the gas in the intergalactic medium.

A variation on my simple explanation:
  1. A is a big blob of gas.
  2. B is a bib bolb of gas.
  3. Blob A hits blob A.
    • If the gas is all the same stuff then the result will be another blob of gas .
    • If the gas is a mixture of two kinds of gas , one of which interacts weakly with the other, then the result will be 3 blobs since the weakly interacting gas passes through the other gas .
  4. We see 3 blobs.
  5. Thus the gas is made of two kinds of gas, one of which interacts weakly with the other.
First asked 18 July 2009
Any problems with this analysis with what is going on with the IGM in the Bullet Cluster and MACS J0025.4-1222?
 
Beats me. Go look up the growing list of the folks they've "banned" over there. I know for a fact that they virtually executed me twice. First they virtually lynched me because of my electrical heresies, and they lynched me again because I came back under a different handle and put their feet to the fire. I scrutinized their beliefs like they tried to scrutinize mine and they got all upset. They even changed the whole rule system during that timeframe just to kill my thread (and a couple more too) so that they could stop the dissent that was going on. They imposed a draconian "30 day rule" where dissent is no longer allowed to continue beyond a month. That is highly unprofessional and unethical behavior.

Oh yeah, baby, we love a good witch burning!
And your posts on BAUT were of the same quality as your posts here on JREF, unconvincing, uneducated, unquantified, etc. etc. etc.
I would not mind burning you again, but alas, I have no authority here, but I will come and watch and cheer!

Actually, that 30 day rule is pretty good. Look at this thread and the electric universe thread and soon the electric comet thread. They just go on and on and on (Hey ABBA!) running in circles, and the no time limit here keeps you from giving real answers (I think I still have a lot of them open about Birkies solar wind for example). It is good to have a time limit, now here on JREF, you are just making it all up as you go.
 
Oh yeah, baby, we love a good witch burning!

Evidently so. You continue to moderate at BAUT and engage in the practice of heretic burning every single day with topics you don't agree with. Burn anyone fun recently?

And your posts on BAUT were of the same quality as your posts here on JREF, unconvincing, uneducated, unquantified, etc. etc. etc.
I would not mind burning you again, but alas, I have no authority here, but I will come and watch and cheer!

I'm afraid you're out of luck because evidently this place is entirely reputable. They don't seem the least bit interested in conducting witch hunts and heresy trials. Alas, I think you're out of luck here. All you can do is watch and whine. :)

Actually, that 30 day rule is pretty good.

Sure, because Einstein obviously convinced everyone of GR theory in less than a month.

Look at this thread and the electric universe thread and soon the electric comet thread.

Ya baby. Isn't freedom of speech wonderful?

They just go on and on and on (Hey ABBA!) running in circles, and the no time limit here keeps you from giving real answers

You mean like you've been going on and on in this thread yet you can't produce a single gram of 'dark matter', and nothing even remotely resembling a "controlled experiment" to qualify your faith in dead inflation deities and dark mysterious evil energies? Please. You folks wouldn't even understand a *REAL* answer because you can't fudge a *REAL* explanation to fit what you want by defining it's "properties" as you go.

(I think I still have a lot of them open about Birkies solar wind for example). It is good to have a time limit, now here on JREF, you are just making it all up as you go.

Time limits are for wussies and people that can't handle debate or the truth. You are welcome to go back you to your cult and hide in your cave if you like. You folks are the ones that "make it up as you go'. Inflation faeries, dark energy gnomes, dark matter elves, none of them need to be "qualified" in any sense in your theories. You don't even *CARE* about qualification of a theory. It's irrelevant from you perspective. It is horribly inconvenient because you can't fudge the numbers as you go.

FYI, you can't defend your cosmology position any better than anyone else. I've seen *NOTHING* even remotely resembling qualified 'evidence' to support any of your key beliefs. Inflation is dead and gone. It doesn't even exist in nature. You folks made it up, then you folks killed it off so that nobody can ever hope to falsify the idea. Dark energy was just stuffed into your theory all willy-nilly in a purely ad-hoc manner. In the process you reduced the rest of the physical universe to a bit player and real *physics* (the kind that does work in a lab) has been reduced to a mere 4% of your total theory. 96 percent of your theory is metaphysical gap filler. Now supposedly DE makes up 75% of the universe, but you can't make it do anything in a lab at all. Pure ad hoc gap filler. Now you're doing the same thing with DM. You're stuffing it with unqualified 'properties' just to make it fit into a math formula. None of this is actual "physics", it's pure metaphysics and faith.

If I could and did impose a 30 day limit here, you'd be toast. I'm personally into free speech of course, so I would never do that, but if you think you're doing any better than anyone else on any cosmology theory, think again. Your three metaphysical buddies are purely contrived and these make-believe fiends of yours are not qualified to be called "science" in any way. You folks simply make up this stuff as you go! None of this is based on actual "PHYSICS" or the physical things we have identified to exist in nature. It's 96% religion and only 4% actual physics.
 
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I've seen *NOTHING* even remotely resembling qualified 'evidence' to support any of your key beliefs.


That's because you have a religious-like faith in an indefensible position. You can't see any evidence that rocks the little happy world inside your head. If you were to actually see and understand the evidence that is laid before you, you'd have to acknowledge that you really don't have what it takes to properly understand science. Then where would you be? You'd have to stop playing little kid scientist and get a new hobby.

If I could and did impose a 30 day limit here, you'd be toast. I'm personally into free speech of course, so I would never do that, but if you think you're doing any better than anyone else on any cosmology theory, think again. Your three metaphysical buddies are purely contrived and these make-believe fiends of yours are not qualified to be called "science" in any way. You folks simply make up this stuff as you go! None of this is based on actual "PHYSICS" or the physical things we have identified to exist in nature. It's 96% religion and only 4% actual physics.


Still whining about having your threads closed at BAUT because you couldn't present a cogent explanation of your crackpot fantasies in a reasonable time frame? Way to carry a grudge, man. Well just be glad they also don't have that rule here where you're required to answer direct, pertinent questions about your crazy notions. If they had that, you would have been banned by now. :D
 
That's because you have a religious-like faith in an indefensible position.

Sorry, that's your gig not mine. You've got dead inflation deities, dark evil energies and a religious like faith in things you cannot even begin empirically demonstrate. :) I simply put my money on empirical physics.

Still whining about having your threads closed at BAUT because you couldn't present a cogent explanation of your crackpot fantasies in a reasonable time frame?

No, I'm still complaining about the way they hold witch trials and act like a religious cult rather than a scientific forum. It's not as though they only did the witch hunt thing to me or my ideas. Heretic burning seems to be a "rule" that is applied to all heretical beliefs at BAUT, not just my personal beliefs. One can't even discuss Alfven's papers there. What kind of weird BS is that? Alfven won a Nobel prize for his work in MHD theory, but evidently talking about his work is a crime against humanity that requires virtual execution, regardless of who defends his work.
 
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No, I'm still complaining about the way they hold witch trials and act like a religious cult rather than a scientific forum. It's not as though they only did the witch hunt thing to me or my ideas. Heretic burning seems to be a "rule" that is applied to all heretical beliefs at BAUT, not just my personal beliefs. One can't even discuss Alfven's papers there. What kind of weird BS is that? Alfven won a Nobel prize for his work in MHD theory, but evidently talking about his work is a crime against humanity that requires virtual execution, regardless of who defends his work.


You missed this part...

Well just be glad they also don't have that rule here where you're required to answer direct, pertinent questions about your crazy notions. If they had that, you would have been banned by now. :D
 
Not in the least. I never suggested you could not 'falsify" an idea based on observation. I simply said you could not "verify" the existence of half a dozen assumed "properties" of DM based on uncontrolled observations of gamma rays in space. Totally different issues.

You've only just told us:

No, it is absolutely *NOT* an "experiment". They are simply *OBSERVING* events in space, and have *zero* in the way of "control mechanisms". No cause/effect relationships can be established that way.
This is exactly the same as for the dark flow observations you loved so much at the start of this thread.
That makes you a hypocrite.

That is not so. There is no "lab-based data" to demonstrate that DM emits gamma rays, or that it "clumps" or that it is "cold". The authors made these things up based on a theoretical particle from a *THEORETICAL* branch of particle physics. Worse yet, they added a whole bunch of new properties based on *NEW FORCES OF NATURE* no less.


Yes they do! They first came up with a number that would not show up in measurements derived from our current technologies. After they found an excess of positrons and electrons (something Alfven predicted by the way), they then fudged the numbers to come up with something that might 'fit" the observation. The math is completely "made up" to fit a specific observation. It's built upon more than a half dozen assumptions about the "properties" of DM.

1) It's non-baryonic
2) It's long lasting
3) It's cold
4) It's "clumpy"
5) It emits gamma rays when it "decays"
6) It emits more gamma rays when in the presence of a new form of energy that is unspecified in the article.
7) It's "slow"

Not one of these so called "properties" can actually be verified by controlled experimentation. All of them were created "ad hoc" based on an attempt to "make it fit" some "specific" observation, in this case an excess of positrons and electrons. Not a single one of these "assumptions" has ever been demonstrated. I am simply supposed to take the statements "on faith" and then allow them to point to the sky and add math to verify each and every one of these 7 assumed properties of DM. Give me a break. Suppose I made up a theory about invisible elves and assigned them 7 distinct "properties" I could not verify in any way, and then tried to explain solar events with them and I included math. Would you accept the notion that because my mathematical predictions of gamma rays from the sun happen to match observation, that these gamma rays from the sun now demonstrate the validity of the 7 assumed properties of elves, and elves exist, and elves release gamma rays on the sun?
This is a science forum not a kiddies story book. I'm quite happy to converse about science. But please grow up and talk about science, not elves and such like. I thought you were a fully grown man.
 
You've only just told us:


This is exactly the same as for the dark flow observations you loved so much at the start of this thread.
That makes you a hypocrite.

No, it's not the same thing. The *ONLY* claim to fame that inflation has is it's "prediction" of a "homogeneous" layout of matter. If the universe isn't homogeneously distributed, then your beloved inflation is DOA. Oh wait, I forgot, that deity is already dead and gone.

This is a science forum not a kiddies story book. I'm quite happy to converse about science.

So explain to me why do you believe in inflation and dark thingies?

But please grow up and talk about science, not elves and such like. I thought you were a fully grown man.

I'm 49 now. I'm a fully grown man with two kids, a wife and I own my own business.

I guess you just don't want to respond to my question eh?
 
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I see you are doing your usual "I shall ignore most of the post and display my inability to undestand what is being described" thing.

Nowhere in my post do I mention stars or galaxies (which act exactly as you state).
The entire post is about the majority of matter in the galactic clusters - the gas in the intergalactic medium.


A variation on my simple explanation:
  1. A is a big blob of gas.
  2. B is a bib bolb of gas.
  3. Blob A hits blob A.
    • If the gas is all the same stuff then the result will be another blob of gas .
    • If the gas is a mixture of two kinds of gas , one of which interacts weakly with the other, then the result will be 3 blobs since the weakly interacting gas passes through the other gas .
  4. We see 3 blobs.
  5. Thus the gas is made of two kinds of gas, one of which interacts weakly with the other.
First asked 18 July 2009
Any problems with this analysis with what is going on with the IGM in the Bullet Cluster and MACS J0025.4-1222?
Just found out that there is a lesser known observation (but messier) that also shows the separation of dark and normal matter - Abell 520.

Any answer yet MM?
Alternatively: Why do we see 3 blobs of gas?
 
No, it's not the same thing. The *ONLY* claim to fame that inflation has is it's "prediction" of a "homogeneous" layout of matter. If the universe isn't homogeneously distributed, then your beloved inflation is DOA. Oh wait, I forgot, that deity is already dead and gone.
Wrong again MM.
The *CLAIMS TO FAME* of inflation are the successful predictions of
  1. The universe is statistically homogeneous and isotropic.
  2. The universe is flat.
  3. Magnetic monopoles do not seem to exist (but this can be falsified by the detection of one!).
  4. The structures visible in the universe today formed through the gravitational collapse of perturbations which were formed as quantum mechanical fluctuations in the inflationary epoch.
  5. The spectral index.
I missed your citation of a paper showing that the universe is not "homogeneously distributed". What was it?
 
Just found out that there is a lesser known observation (but messier) that also shows the separation of dark and normal matter - Abell 520.

Very interesting. This paper says that Abell 520 is a counterpoint to the bullet cluster; dark matter appears to behave differently in A520 than in the bullet:

snip:

"For Abell 520, using the mass for peak 3 and assuming an effective depth along the merging axis of 150 kpc, we estimate m  0.066±0.016 g/cm2, yielding a cross section of σdm/mdm  0.25/0.066  3.8±1.1 cm2 g−1, well above the upper limit of 1 cm2 g−1 derived for the bullet cluster."

The dark matter in this cluster appears to be more susceptible to "collisions" than in the bullet....

Maybe there's more than one kind of dark matter? ;)
 
Of course there is more than one kind of dark matter when concerning the many particles which are within its field family... but if there is another type of matter which shows different effects as you have demonstrated then it would be an entirely new field of particles, rather than a second kind of dark matter.
 
Of course there is more than one kind of dark matter when concerning the many particles which are within its field family...

Someone who knows what dark matter is! Can you elaborate?

Singularitarian said:
.. but if there is another type of matter which shows different effects as you have demonstrated then it would be an entirely new field of particles, rather than a second kind of dark matter.

If you are referring to my post, you give me much too much credit: I demonstrated nothing, but rather cut and pasted an excerpt from some experts' paper.
 
Very interesting. This paper says that Abell 520 is a counterpoint to the bullet cluster; dark matter appears to behave differently in A520 than in the bullet:

snip:

"For Abell 520, using the mass for peak 3 and assuming an effective depth along the merging axis of 150 kpc, we estimate m  0.066±0.016 g/cm2, yielding a cross section of σdm/mdm  0.25/0.066  3.8±1.1 cm2 g−1, well above the upper limit of 1 cm2 g−1 derived for the bullet cluster."

The dark matter in this cluster appears to be more susceptible to "collisions" than in the bullet....

Maybe there's more than one kind of dark matter? ;)
Maybe.
But then the question is why the dark matter in the Bullet Culster is a different sort (or mixture of sorts) of dark matter than that in Abell 520.

There is a cavet in the next paragraph.
A Dark Core in Abell 520

The
σdm value is an order-of-magnitude estimate, but any detailed corrections to the estimate must also be reflected in the upper limit derived for the bullet cluster. We caution that the measurement is sensitive to the surface density of the cluster along the merging direction, something that is uncertain in our current maps but will improve with planned higher resolution Hubble
Space Telescope observations. Differences in the merger impact parameter could be invoked to explain why Abell 520 and the bullet cluster yield different constraints on the cross-section; such a discussion is beyond the scope of this paper.

 
Someone who knows what dark matter is! Can you elaborate? (1)



If you are referring to my post, you give me much too much credit: I demonstrated nothing, but rather cut and pasted an excerpt from some experts' paper.

1) By classifications in a family, i mean particles which contend as possible candidates for dark matter, such as the axion. But then we class them equally into two seperate parts of one family consisting of their speeds, into Hot (fast) DM and Cold (Slow) DM, but they consistently have non-baryonic properties that can be measured even though not observed directly. But if such gravitational differences are found in differential star clusters, then it show evidence of a new class of particle which is not part of Dark Matter. It could also be faulty or smudged observational work. It could also mean General Relativity does not work at large distances... in fact, it could mean a lot of things.
 
Just found out that there is a lesser known observation (but messier) that also shows the separation of dark and normal matter - Abell 520.

Any answer yet MM?
Alternatively: Why do we see 3 blobs of gas?

Well, let's see where the "missing mass" is located, in the gas, or in the solar system infrastructures that pass right through each other.....

In clusters with recent major merger activity, the positions of the dark matter and main baryonic component (the X-ray emitting gas) can become temporarily separated. This occurs because the gas is collisional and experiences ram pressure, whereas galaxies and (presumably) dark matter are effectively collisionless.

So essentially they confirmed that the "missing matter" is located inside the stars and solar system infrastructures of the galaxy. Big deal. I knew that much from the bullet cluster data. It is just additional evidence that your industry cannot correctly calculate the mass of galaxy with current guestimation techniques. Not one single line of that paper demonstrates that any of the missing mass is "non-baryonic" exotic matter.
 
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Very interesting. This paper says that Abell 520 is a counterpoint to the bullet cluster; dark matter appears to behave differently in A520 than in the bullet:

snip:

"For Abell 520, using the mass for peak 3 and assuming an effective depth along the merging axis of 150 kpc, we estimate m  0.066±0.016 g/cm2, yielding a cross section of σdm/mdm  0.25/0.066  3.8±1.1 cm2 g−1, well above the upper limit of 1 cm2 g−1 derived for the bullet cluster."

The dark matter in this cluster appears to be more susceptible to "collisions" than in the bullet....

Maybe there's more than one kind of dark matter? ;)

One can't help but wonder how much these images might have to do with the mass concentrations near the core of the galaxies and contained in solar systems vs. the gas between the stars which would appear to experience more collisions. The pink baryonic matter seems to be related to light gas between stars that collides as the galaxies collide and interact. The blue areas would seem to be the stars, core and physical solar system infrastructure that does not interact that much as the star fields pass through one another.

Whereas the bullet cluster data seemed to suggest that DM did *NOT* experience "collisions', this data seems to require some sort of collisions process to make it work right. Which is it? I don't think they can even come up with a consensus on whether or not DM collides with itself.
 
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Unfortunately all threads that MM is involved in will become like this one.

He whines and complains about lab experiments and dead deities without offering any evidence, we ignore his prattling and soapboxing and ask him questions which he ignores. It's a trainwreck in slow motion and repeat.

Really now, MM. Dead inflation deities and invisible faeries? You're a troll. Unlike faeries, trolls exist. Arguing with you is pointless because you'll never admit you're wrong and you'll overlook every single time someone comes up with a counterpoint that refutes you. Go...play with Alex Jones or something. His goons are more to your liking.

If I wasted fifteen years of my life on something with not a single thing to show for it I'd be pretty humiliated. You can't even do any real work or experiments, you rip off other people's work. You point to pictures like they are the be-all-end-all of arguements. Do you use 8x10 glossies with paragraphs on the back of each one? Show us some actual work you have done. What experiments have you done? What tests have you performed? What background do you have that makes you qualified to run the equipment?
 
One can't help but wonder how much these images might have to do with the mass concentrations near the core of the galaxies and contained in solar systems vs. the gas between the stars which would appear to experience more collisions. The pink baryonic matter seems to be related to light gas between stars that collides as the galaxies collide and interact. The blue areas would seem to be the stars, core and physical solar system infrastructure that does not interact that much as the star fields pass through one another.
One would not wonder that if one knew any physics.
The pixels that are false colored pink are the X-rays from any gas (baryonic matter) that is colliding.
The blue areas are the matter in the galactic cluster whether visible or not.

Whereas the bullet cluster data seemed to suggest that DM did *NOT* experience "collisions', this data seems to require some sort of collisions process to make it work right. Which is it? I don't think they can even come up with a consensus on whether or not DM collides with itself.
Wrong.
Weakly Interacting Massive Particle

Dark matter
The most direct observational evidence to date for dark matter is in a system known as the Bullet Cluster. In most regions of the universe, dark matter and visible material are found together,[14] as expected because of their mutual gravitational attraction. In the Bullet Cluster, a collision between two galaxy clusters appears to have caused a separation of dark matter and baryonic matter. X-ray observations show that much of the baryonic matter (in the form of 107–108 Kelvin[15] gas, or plasma) in the system is concentrated in the center of the system. Electromagnetic interactions between passing gas particles caused them to slow down and settle near the point of impact. However, weak gravitational lensing observations of the same system show that much of the mass resides outside of the central region of baryonic gas. Because dark matter does not interact by electromagnetic forces, it would not have been slowed in the same way as the X-ray visible gas, so the dark matter components of the two clusters passed through each other without slowing down substantially. This accounts for the separation. Unlike the galactic rotation curves, this evidence for dark matter is independent of the details of Newtonian gravity, so it is held as direct evidence of the existence of dark matter.
Emphasis added.


And the question you are unable to answer (with more emphasis added)
  1. A is a big blob of gas.
  2. B is a bib bolb of gas.
  3. Blob A hits blob A.
    • If the gas is all the same stuff then the result will be another blob of gas .
    • If the gas is a mixture of two kinds of gas , one of which interacts weakly with the other, then the result will be 3 blobs since the weakly interacting gas passes through the other gas .
  4. We see 3 blobs.
  5. Thus the gas is made of two kinds of gas, one of which interacts weakly with the other.
First asked 18 July 2009
Any problems with this analysis with what is going on with the IGM in the Bullet Cluster and MACS J0025.4-1222?
 
Mass hiding in the solar system! That is just great. So the mass of man made sattelites is not known, from that we can not find the mass of anything. The intra system gas is hiding, the interstellar gas is hiding, sure whatever.

Larger black holes, cool, but does that explain all parts of the flat rotation curves of galaxies?

BTW gentle people, there is a lot of bickering going on! Is this Politics?
 
FYI, you can't defend your cosmology position any better than anyone else. I've seen *NOTHING* even remotely resembling qualified 'evidence' to support any of your key beliefs. Inflation is dead and gone. It doesn't even exist in nature. You folks made it up, then you folks killed it off so that nobody can ever hope to falsify the idea. Dark energy was just stuffed into your theory all willy-nilly in a purely ad-hoc manner. In the process you reduced the rest of the physical universe to a bit player and real *physics* (the kind that does work in a lab) has been reduced to a mere 4% of your total theory. 96 percent of your theory is metaphysical gap filler. Now supposedly DE makes up 75% of the universe, but you can't make it do anything in a lab at all. Pure ad hoc gap filler. Now you're doing the same thing with DM. You're stuffing it with unqualified 'properties' just to make it fit into a math formula. None of this is actual "physics", it's pure metaphysics and faith.

I am not trying to defend ANY cosmology, as it is not my field of research. I am just pointing out all the errors that you make in plasma physics. You, the expert on Birkeland and Alfvén, the forefighter of the electic and plasma universe, don't have even knowledge of the basics of electrodynamics. THAT is what I am trying to do. You're not as bad as Sol88, but that is mainly because you NEVER give quantitative explanations, and avoid math (which is probably better).

If I could and did impose a 30 day limit here, you'd be toast. I'm personally into free speech of course, so I would never do that, but if you think you're doing any better than anyone else on any cosmology theory, think again. Your three metaphysical buddies are purely contrived and these make-believe fiends of yours are not qualified to be called "science" in any way. You folks simply make up this stuff as you go! None of this is based on actual "PHYSICS" or the physical things we have identified to exist in nature. It's 96% religion and only 4% actual physics.

I am doing plasma physics, not cosmology, I "attack" all your so-called explanations of what happens in the universe based on a solid knowledge of plasma physics, from the laboratory, space experiments and theory.

I am in favour of free speech, and I don't want to discuss the 30 day rule here actuall, but it does make that presenters have to come prepared with something and not make it up as they go, and that they cannot side shift the discussion to another topic when they don't like where the discussion is leading them (usually that they have to admid they are wrong or made a mistake).
 
Sorry, that's your gig not mine. You've got dead inflation deities, dark evil energies and a religious like faith in things you cannot even begin empirically demonstrate. :) I simply put my money on empirical physics.
[/quote)

Ahhhh empircal physics like:

  • an impossible solid surface (or is it only a crust) of the sun
  • current flows from the Sun to the heliopause that are never observed
  • electrons accelerating in an electric field and "dragging along" the at least 1836 times heavier ions
  • current generation in the sun by nuclear fission
  • huge current channels intertwining and creating galaxies
  • ... need I go on?

very empirical


No, I'm still complaining about the way they hold witch trials and act like a religious cult rather than a scientific forum. It's not as though they only did the witch hunt thing to me or my ideas. Heretic burning seems to be a "rule" that is applied to all heretical beliefs at BAUT, not just my personal beliefs. One can't even discuss Alfven's papers there. What kind of weird BS is that? Alfven won a Nobel prize for his work in MHD theory, but evidently talking about his work is a crime against humanity that requires virtual execution, regardless of who defends his work.

if you would have actually presented something that is plasmaphysically possible it would not have been a problem, but you have not got the foggiest about plasma physics. It all comes down to look at the pretty picture, and when asked to show that what you claim can actually occur (like the electrons dragging along the ions, apparently Birkeland calculated that, I went through the whole math on the appropriate pages, and found NOTHING of the kind).

It's okay if you can do neither physics nor math, observational astronomers are very important, but then you have not even be able to show that you understand astrophysical observations (like the thread "does Lockheed Martin understand the observations by SOHO" which was preposterous!)
 
[...]

Do you use 8x10 glossies with paragraphs on the back of each one?

[...]
:)

Not only does MM not use '8x10 glossies with paragraphs on the back of each one', he doesn't use "eight-by-ten colour glossy photographs with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was to be used as evidence against us" ... and he certainly doesn't use 27 of them! :D
 
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