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Old 11th August 2009, 07:17 AM   #1
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Birthers and Truthers by party affiliation



link:
Writes Nyhan: “Even under this more stringent standard, 19% of Democrats and 28% of Republicans indicated direct support for the misperception of interest.” That’s right, 19% and 28% are just the numbers who think it’s “very likely” the conspiracy theory in question is true in each party. If you loosen the standard to include people who think the theory in question is “very likely” OR just “somewhat likely,” you get 49% of Democrats saying 9/11 was an inside job and 58% of Republicans saying Obama was born in Kenya.
Scary stuff.
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Old 11th August 2009, 07:46 AM   #2
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Conspiracy nuttery - no matter how noxious - knows no permanent party affiliation, it would seem.

BTW - that link only goes to the .jpg address of the graph - I dunno if you wanted to link the accompanying article or not...

Here it be :

http://trueslant.com/ryansager/2009/...-morons-oh-my/
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Old 11th August 2009, 08:03 AM   #3
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Oh ya I did, thanks!
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Old 11th August 2009, 08:50 AM   #4
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I suspect that the real numbers on both sides are quite a bit lower than what the polling reveals. We've all remarked on the fact that NYC, which is a very liberal town with a huge and densely-packed population, appears to have about 100 dedicated 9-11 Troofers, while the polling would indicate there should be somewhere around 1 million.

It's kind of like the Elvis is alive people; yeah, polls show that 37% or so of the population will agree with that. But how many of them are going out to Graceland and demanding that the King show himself?

Along the same lines, has anybody here seen a "Show Me the Birth Certificate" bumper sticker? I live in a conservative area of a conservative state, and I haven't seen one.
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Old 11th August 2009, 09:19 AM   #5
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Quote:
Along the same lines, has anybody here seen a "Show Me the Birth Certificate" bumper sticker? I live in a conservative area of a conservative state, and I haven't seen one.
These folks are too busy planning for the second American Revolution. And besides, they have decide which sticker to remove first to make room...



The "Guns Don't Kill People, Democrats Do" sticker.
The "I brake for Timothy McVay" sticker
The "Adam and Eve NOT Adam and Steve!!!" Sticker
The "Schwarzenegger and Palin 2012" Sticker
The "Jesus Loves White Protestants" Sticker
The "9/11 was an inside Job" sticker

There's just simply no room for a "Nobama Birth Certificate" sticker
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Old 11th August 2009, 10:41 AM   #6
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LIHOP or MIHOP

The 9/11 numbers don't seem to spoecify LIHOP or MIHOP. I suspect there's a quite a few "Bush ignored the warnings" people in that 19%.
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Old 11th August 2009, 01:10 PM   #7
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I also suspect that there are a substantial number of people polled who, when asked, might say both of the following:

1. Obama might have been born in Kenya.
2. Obama is a legitimate president.

Otherwise, how do you explain the 5% or so on the left half of the spectrum who clearly support him (mostly)? They might just be ignorant of all of the rules involved, or just not know because they haven't looked into it.

Remember when all the 9/11 stuff was first hitting the internet, and how few people you might call 'average citizens' had even heard of the nonsense, much less looked into it in any depth in order to form an opinion?

It's interesting to compare these numbers to the ones Dr. Adequate linked to in the other thread.
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Old 11th August 2009, 01:12 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Sunray Breaker View Post
These folks are too busy planning for the second American Revolution. And besides, they have decide which sticker to remove first to make room...



The "Guns Don't Kill People, Democrats Do" sticker.
The "I brake for Timothy McVay" sticker
The "Adam and Eve NOT Adam and Steve!!!" Sticker
The "Schwarzenegger and Palin 2012" Sticker
The "Jesus Loves White Protestants" Sticker
The "9/11 was an inside Job" sticker

There's just simply no room for a "Nobama Birth Certificate" sticker
Puh-leease. Everyone knows that you don't remove old stickers, you just have to pick an old one that you don't mind covering with the new one!

Also, please don't leave out my favorite all-time bumper sticker:

"YOUR in AMERICA"
"LEARN ENGLISH"

(sic)
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Old 11th August 2009, 05:20 PM   #9
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I'm pretty much reserved to the fact that the parties these conspiracy theorists fall into association with are plainly coincidental... The United States pretty much runs off of a two party system with smaller flanks on the lesser known political third parties. I'm pretty sure if there were much more variety as tends to be common in many of the European nations they might be more defined affiliation wise... but that's only speculation on my part.
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Old 11th August 2009, 05:27 PM   #10
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Given the relative sizes of the parties there are about the same number of nutjobs on each side.
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Old 11th August 2009, 05:40 PM   #11
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what utter BS. more then 5% of Democrats think 9-11 was an inside job??

i don't think so!!
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Old 11th August 2009, 07:07 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by parky76 View Post
what utter BS. more then 5% of Democrats think 9-11 was an inside job??

i don't think so!!
More than 5% on SOME "dem" boards, but a lot of folks are shy to say how inane that is because the truthers attack them in very personal ways.
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Old 12th August 2009, 05:57 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by BenBurch View Post
More than 5% on SOME "dem" boards, but a lot of folks are shy to say how inane that is because the truthers attack them in very personal ways.
saying on a poll "9-11 may have been an inside job", and being an active 9-11 Truther are two very different things.

anyone can say anything on a stupid poll. there are no ramifications and no work or commitment is required.

being an active truther takes time and effort. this is why they make up only .001% of the USA. thats about 3,000 people.
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Old 12th August 2009, 06:29 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by parky76 View Post

being an active truther takes time and effort. this is why they make up only .001% of the USA. thats about 3,000 people.
3,000 people working full-time on being ignorant and deluded.

These are strange times we're living in.
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Old 12th August 2009, 06:37 AM   #15
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Way to go North Carolina!
According to Public Policy Polling (PPP), a North Carolina polling firm, only 24% of self-identified Republican voters in the state believe Barack Obama was born in the United States. 47% do not believe that Obama is American born, and 29% of Republicans aren’t sure. One part of PPP’s data might reassure sentient readers somewhat: 7% of those who voted for John McCain do not believe Hawaii to be a part of the United States. Now perhaps this is just another irrational expression of Obama hatred. But, it may also be older voters who never quite absorbed the news that our 50th state is indeed our 50th state.
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Old 12th August 2009, 06:43 AM   #16
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Confirms what we know already: The Republican party is the party of stupid.
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Old 12th August 2009, 07:01 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Myron Proudfoot View Post
The 9/11 numbers don't seem to spoecify LIHOP or MIHOP. I suspect there's a quite a few "Bush ignored the warnings" people in that 19%.
Yes, I think that's key. Obviously, no matter what you believe, there was some conspiracy surrounding 9/11. I don't think it's crazy or stupid to think it likely that some of that conspiracy extended to somebody in the government. Not that I do. But there's a huge gulf between someone who says "I think Bush knew 9/11 was going to happen, and allowed to happen because he wanted 90% approval ratings/Patriot Act/wars in Iraq and Afghanistan/etc." and someone who says "There were no planes, the WTC buildings were destroyed by nanothermite placed there by workers days before."

With the Obama birth story, there's no spectrum, it's just, he was born in Kenya or he was born in Hawaii.

Something that hadn't occurred to me until now: If Obama were born in Kenya, how would he know it? If the birthers were right about the conspiracy, they could hardly blame Obama for it, right? Oh well.
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Old 12th August 2009, 08:54 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by parky76 View Post
anyone can say anything on a stupid poll. there are no ramifications and no work or commitment is required.
Exactly. One-dimensional polls like this, with a forced choice, don't take into account the all-important second factor, the "Care so much about this that my life revolves around it ------> Couldn't care less" dimension.

If data could be weighted on degree of interest the resulting graph would show numbers that are very much smaller indeed.
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Old 12th August 2009, 12:33 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Praktik View Post
Way to go North Carolina!
According to Public Policy Polling (PPP), a North Carolina polling firm, only 24% of self-identified Republican voters in the state believe Barack Obama was born in the United States. 47% do not believe that Obama is American born, and 29% of Republicans aren’t sure. One part of PPP’s data might reassure sentient readers somewhat: 7% of those who voted for John McCain do not believe Hawaii to be a part of the United States. Now perhaps this is just another irrational expression of Obama hatred. But, it may also be older voters who never quite absorbed the news that our 50th state is indeed our 50th state.
Oh goddammit!
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Old 13th August 2009, 07:56 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Praktik View Post
Way to go North Carolina!
According to Public Policy Polling (PPP), a North Carolina polling firm, only 24% of self-identified Republican voters in the state believe Barack Obama was born in the United States. 47% do not believe that Obama is American born, and 29% of Republicans aren’t sure. One part of PPP’s data might reassure sentient readers somewhat: 7% of those who voted for John McCain do not believe Hawaii to be a part of the United States. Now perhaps this is just another irrational expression of Obama hatred. But, it may also be older voters who never quite absorbed the news that our 50th state is indeed our 50th state.
What almost amuses me is that Obama started with an approval rating of almost 70% when he started off even though it's since dropped to 50%. I'd like to know what the conservative base is having trouble with if 30-50 percent of it doesn't even think he was a naturalized citizen and still included themselves in the majority of who liked him immediately after he took the oath of office...
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Old 13th August 2009, 08:02 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by BenBurch View Post
Given the relative sizes of the parties there are about the same number of nutjobs on each side.
I've always felt the root of CT belief is not political, it's psychological. Some people are predisposed to belief in CT's and politics just a manifestation it.
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Old 13th August 2009, 11:22 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Along the same lines, has anybody here seen a "Show Me the Birth Certificate" bumper sticker? I live in a conservative area of a conservative state, and I haven't seen one.
I finally saw my first one today, displayed proudly on the back window of a pickup truck, right next to a sticker with this quote:

"This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration! Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future."

This is a Hitler quote, of course.
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Old 15th August 2009, 10:49 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by linusrichard View Post
Yes, I think that's key. Obviously, no matter what you believe, there was some conspiracy surrounding 9/11. I don't think it's crazy or stupid to think it likely that some of that conspiracy extended to somebody in the government.
I do.

Quote:
Not that I do. But there's a huge gulf between someone who says "I think Bush knew 9/11 was going to happen, and allowed to happen because he wanted 90% approval ratings/Patriot Act/wars in Iraq and Afghanistan/etc." and someone who says "There were no planes, the WTC buildings were destroyed by nanothermite placed there by workers days before."
No, there's no huge gulf. Both are nutty nutty mcnuts. But your comments making LIHOP sound reasonable, certainly explains this poll result from 2006:

Quote:
There are also accusations being made following the 9/11 terrorist attack. One of these is: People in the federal government either assisted in the 9/11 attacks or took no action to stop the attacks because they wanted the [sic] United States to go to war in the Middle East.

At the time, the poll did not offer a partisan breakout. So I got in touch with Guido Stempel, director of the Scripps Survey Research Center, and asked for the cross-tab by party. Here it is:

Very likely:

* Dem 22.6%
* GOP 4.9%
* Inde 16.7

Somewhat likely:

* Dem 28.2%
* GOP 12.6%
* Inde 15.2%
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Old 15th August 2009, 07:14 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by JihadJane View Post
Confirms what we know already: The Republican party is the party of stupid.
Confirms what we know already: JihadJane is a Truther.


The point of the OP would seem to be, "Say, look at this. Two really stupid conspiracy theories, and it's interesting the sort of party-line split you can see. There's something to the contention that much of this is partisan, after all."
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Old 15th August 2009, 07:23 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by ICTimer View Post
I finally saw my first one today, displayed proudly on the back window of a pickup truck, right next to a sticker with this quote:

"This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration! Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future."

This is a Hitler quote, of course.
This is, of course, BS. Google is your friend. Hitler never said any such thing.

The gun control laws in Germany were passed under the Weimar Republic, and were designed to keep guns out of the hands of both Nazis and Communists. As Hitler usurped power, he used them very effectively against the Communists, while arming his own people to the teeth.
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Old 16th August 2009, 02:19 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Confirms what we know already: JihadJane is a Truther.

Not according to linusrichard, above(and many others). Not even according to the rabid UNLoVedRebel.

What label are you?
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