What Is The Soul?

Hokulele said:
What the Bible says on any given topic is only important if you believe the Bible is an accurate source of information. So far, there is no evidence to believe it is any more accurate than any other collection of writings from a similar time period, and several reasons to believe it is less accurate than some.

Knowing what the Bible really says is useful when discussing things with those who have faith in the Bible, not so much otherwise.
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Oh, the evidence! Oh, yeah, we know how important the evidence is to the far superior skeptical mind of the intellectual atheist! So important!

What evidence? You want archaeological? Historical? Scientific?

The simple fact is that you believe there to be no such thing as the God of the Bible and no evidence is going to change that. Ever. So at least be intellectually honest about it.

There certainly isn't anything wrong with that. You don't need a reason to believe whatever you choose to believe, but don't tell me there is no evidence when I could pile evidence over your head standing up.
 
David Henson said:
The simple fact is that you believe there to be no such thing as the God of the Bible and no evidence is going to change that. Ever. So at least be intellectually honest about it.
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Why don't you choose to be intellectually honest and admit that you are in a superiority contest, and that you actually have very little faith in your own god to do his job with people without your scholarship. You have more faith in yourself and your superiority to "the intelligent skeptic" by using tactics akin to a kindergartner.
 
David Henson said:
Wow! I have to say . . . this is the most unproductive conversation I have been in this week. So, you all agree that the soul according to the Bible isn't important enough to have an informed opinion on. You don't know or care what the Bible says the soul is and given any information on the subject is a waste of time?

Any questions that might arise in the future here regarding what the Bible says about the soul I would be glad to answer. Thanks.
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I have no informed opinion on invisible unicorns/leprechauns/pixies either.Why should I care about what a work of fiction says about the soul? Come up with some proof that the soul actually exists and then we can talk.
 
David Henson said:
Oh, the evidence! Oh, yeah, we know how important the evidence is to the far superior skeptical mind of the intellectual atheist! So important!

What evidence? You want archaeological? Historical? Scientific?

The simple fact is that you believe there to be no such thing as the God of the Bible and no evidence is going to change that. Ever. So at least be intellectually honest about it.

There certainly isn't anything wrong with that. You don't need a reason to believe whatever you choose to believe, but don't tell me there is no evidence when I could pile evidence over your head standing up.
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Go on then.I bet you can't.
 
David Henson said:
The Bible isn't a philosophy, though. And it doesn't have it all right in that it has everything. It isn't a science book but it is accurate and in line with proved science. It isn't an instruction manual on mechanics or computer technology. It is the word of Jehovah God which proves itself to anyone who is really interested in the truth it does offer.
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To bad, it doesn't have any truth in it about a so-called god. A very childish being passing itself off as a so-called god, yes it does that, but a real one, no.

Time and time again this being's only answer to a problem is death, anyone can do that, that is why it is easy to make an army.

Paul

:) :) :)
 
David Henson said:
I have investigated Buddhism, Confucianism, Christianity, Hinduism, Islam, Judaism, Shinto and Taoism to the point where I am satisfied that they all have bits of wisdom but they are not comparable to the truth of the Bible.
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Perhaps you could clear up something about the truth of the Bible? What was the name of the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary?
 
Paulhoff said:
To bad, it doesn't have any truth in it about a so-called god. A very childish being passing itself off as a so-called god, yes it does that, but a real one, no.

Time and time again this being's only answer to a problem is death, anyone can do that, that is why it is easy to make an army.

Paul

:) :) :)
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The Jehova of the Old Testament does have the attributes of a violent irrational child.
 
paximperium said:
Bingo. What your Bible has to say on a subject is pretty irrelevant since you have yet to:
1)Provide any evidence for the existence of a soul, well except to call it blood; which makes all the other nonsense spouted about blood, uh I mean soul, irrelevant since medicine knows a lot about blood already.
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The soul is a tenet of Greek philosophy. That is what you want me to provide evidence for, but that is exactly what I am denying.

paximperium said:
2)Tell us why anyone why anyone should treat a book of fiction seriously?
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Entertainment value, but the Bible isn't a book of fiction. If you knew anything about secular history you would know that it is full of fiction, even myth and legend. If you knew anything about science you would know that every new bit of science that replaces an old one has replaced and will likely be replaced by what is, in hindsight, science fiction. If you know anything about archeology you would know that it is highly subject to interpretation.
 
David Henson said:
Oh, the evidence! Oh, yeah, we know how important the evidence is to the far superior skeptical mind of the intellectual atheist! So important!

What evidence? You want archaeological? Historical? Scientific?

The simple fact is that you believe there to be no such thing as the God of the Bible and no evidence is going to change that. Ever. So at least be intellectually honest about it.

There certainly isn't anything wrong with that. You don't need a reason to believe whatever you choose to believe, but don't tell me there is no evidence when I could pile evidence over your head standing up.
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Furthermore, if you're really being intellectually honest with yourself .... it seems to me that you are essentially judging skeptics for their "unbelief" because you claim that you were skeptic yourself before you believed. I would assume you are really judging yourself prior to your current status with "god", and you've missed several key ingredients to "the gospel" that your own bible delivers. Thus ... why you continue to judge, essentially, yourself. It's as though you want to see a skeptic evangelized to be inline with yourself, to legitimize and give validity to your own faith. You are wanting to take the faith out of faith. It's not possible to make faith fact ... it would cease to be faith!

Seriously ... stop confusing faith with fact. If someone is unwilling to acknowledge fact, it shows ignorance, lack of education, lack of intellectual ability perhaps, etc. But if someone is unwilling to have faith .... it is due to different issues. Trust, desire, personal choice, experience, etc. It requires little to no intelligence to have faith. A kid trusts his parent, a husband trusts his wife, a person gets on a plane and trust the pilot, a believer trusts in god. You can't just assume that people don't share the same faith that you do, because of the same reasons you lack faith. I'm trying to help you to see what you are confusing .... because confusing the two concepts will get you nowhere.

I mean, even if the bible were 100% accurate and God appeared before all of us and claimed it as so, i would still hope that there would be unbelievers. Why? Because trust is earned! It isn't based on fact alone ... it's based on experience. And so far, God could easily be argued to be a homicidal baby-killing rape condoner who loves slavery and death. These issues need to be addressed. I mean ... if you are married and you found out your spouse was a rapist, murderer, trickster, etc .... you would have issues with trust and/or love and faith in that spouse. You might still agree to trust them, you might not. ITS UP TO YOU .... it's up to each person.

Your generalizations and assumptions show your own hippocrisy.
 
David Henson said:
The soul is a tenet of Greek philosophy. That is what you want me to provide evidence for, but that is exactly what I am denying.



Entertainment value, but the Bible isn't a book of fiction. If you knew anything about secular history you would know that it is full of fiction, even myth and legend. If you knew anything about science you would know that every new bit of science that replaces an old one has replaced and will likely be replaced by what is, in hindsight, science fiction. If you know anything about archeology you would know that it is highly subject to interpretation.
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If you knew anything about science,lol,There are not a few scientists here,you are making yourself look silly now.Can you list your qualifications in the fields of science,history and archeology please?
 
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So you spend a great deal of your spare time argueing with something that has no bearing on the real world?
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Only when there are people who believe idiotic books of fiction are some sort of higher truth, and try to force their ridiculous rules on everybody living in the real world.
 
trentwray said:
Why don't you choose to be intellectually honest and admit that you are in a superiority contest, and that you actually have very little faith in your own god to do his job with people without your scholarship. You have more faith in yourself and your superiority to "the intelligent skeptic" by using tactics akin to a kindergartner.
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A superiority contest? There are JW children who know what I know, it isn't special. My being here isn't about that or to convert anyone. It isn't about faith and it isn't God's job - with or without my scholarship. It isn't God's job, its yours. Each of you. And you can't fail at it because no matter what you put into it you get exactly what you want.

The only thing you have to complain about is people getting the Bible wrong and controling your world and in the typical atheist fashion what do you do? Educate yourself and release your self from that power?

No.
 
David Henson said:
Entertainment value, but the Bible isn't a book of fiction. If you knew anything about secular history you would know that it is full of fiction, even myth and legend.
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Historians, however, are keen to separate the myth and legend from the real history of ancient accounts. Historians are fairly sure that the fictional Arthur Pendragon was loosely based on a real person, possibly a warrior chieftain. But historians follow every available thread so they are well aware that much of the Arthur Legend as we know it was borrowed from elements of Norman fiction.

Similarly, the Bible certainly contains elements of real history. But much of that history has been modified over centuries before being set down in the forms that we know now. For example: The Biblical story of the Exodus and the invasion of Canaan are not supported by archaeological evidence.

If you knew anything about science you would know that every new bit of science that replaces an old one has replaced and will likely be replaced by what is, in hindsight, science fiction. If you know anything about archeology you would know that it is highly subject to interpretation.
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You don't seem to know much about science or archeology.
 
David Henson said:
A superiority contest? There are JW children who know what I knowhave been brainwashed into believing what I believe,
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Fixed that for you.I think that the way JW raise their children is child abuse,they ought to be prosecuted.15 years ago at my daughter's birthday party there was a JW boy there,When we asked the kids what they wanted to be when they grew up they all gaver the usual answers,except the boy.He said that he wasn't going to grow up because Jehova was going to come and get him soon because the world was going to end.I was shocked that any parent could say that to a child.I pressed his mother about it when she came to collect him,and she said ''do you really think it will last much longer down here?'' I said she was a raving nutcase and a bad mother and that I would give the child a present on his 21st birthday,which I did.She still believes,what a deluded eejit!At least the boy has come to his senses,and has recovered. Sheer child abuse,I'll say it again.
 
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David Henson said:
A superiority contest? There are JW children who know what I know, it isn't special. My being here isn't about that or to convert anyone. It isn't about faith and it isn't God's job - with or without my scholarship. It isn't God's job, its yours. Each of you. And you can't fail at it because no matter what you put into it you get exactly what you want.

The only thing you have to complain about is people getting the Bible wrong and controling your world and in the typical atheist fashion what do you do? Educate yourself and release your self from that power?

No.
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Nobody is contolling my world in an atheist manner.Are you a CT nut too?
 
dafydd said:
I have no informed opinion on invisible unicorns/leprechauns/pixies either.Why should I care about what a work of fiction says about the soul? Come up with some proof that the soul actually exists and then we can talk.
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Dude, I did that in the first post in this thread. The soul of Greek philosophy which was adopted by later Christianity probably doesn't exist, but I'm not here to talk about that except for to simply say that Christianity had adopted it and it is contrary to Biblical teaching.

The soul, according to the Bible is the blood and the life of a person or animal, and in a basic sense everything that life involves. Memories, desires, experience etc.

Do I really have to prove that these things exist? Are you paying attention to what I'm saying?
 
Foster Zygote said:
And the Odyssey is the evidence for Polyphemus.
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No, the claims that it makes are. The supernatural in the Bible isn't testable by science or any other means. So, if you took the supernatural out of the Bible you would have no reason to doubt it. You absolutely could not say that if it was written by a bunch of "bronze age goat-herders."
 
David Henson said:
A superiority contest? There are JW children who know what I know, it isn't special. My being here isn't about that or to convert anyone. It isn't about faith and it isn't God's job - with or without my scholarship. It isn't God's job, its yours. Each of you. And you can't fail at it because no matter what you put into it you get exactly what you want.

The only thing you have to complain about is people getting the Bible wrong and controling your world and in the typical atheist fashion what do you do? Educate yourself and release your self from that power?

No.
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Okay wait. Maybe I didn't see your true agenda. Are you saying that the apostate Xtians are responsible for the atheist stance ---- and that if only the atheist would properly examine the bible beyond the apostate Xtian's viral views that brainwashed US ... then we would be free from their delusions and have the opportunity to see the bible for what it is?

And if we are unwilling, it only shows that we really don't care about being under the control of the apostate Xtians ... we are merely sitting here, barking out b.s. about why the bible is wrong, and our barking is out of ignorance and laziness. Therefore, we are just as disappointing as the apostate Xtians and our lack of effort to see past their lies is what is revealing that we really don't care for the truth at all. We are our own hippocrites.

Is this essentially your synopsis of the way things are?

If it is .... you view yourself as God even more than I thought. It's not the bible you view as god, it's you.
 
so, we throw away the supernatural, and all the bits proven incorrect by science (global flood, exodus, genesis etc) and the crappy allegory bits (Jonah etc)..... what are we left with?

Women are crap, slavery is fine, then god loses his rag and kills a bunch of people......

Yeh, thanks all the same, but Ill pass.

EDIT: Its late, and yes I realise God is supernatural...... so we are left with a bunch of bad morals? Ill still pass.
 
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What about that poor brainwashed child in my post above,David? Not a nice thing do,is it? Jehova is not going to come down and put up a closed for business sign.
 
David Henson said:
Dude, I did that in the first post in this thread. The soul of Greek philosophy which was adopted by later Christianity probably doesn't exist, but I'm not here to talk about that except for to simply say that Christianity had adopted it and it is contrary to Biblical teaching.

The soul, according to the Bible is the blood and the life of a person or animal, and in a basic sense everything that life involves. Memories, desires, experience etc.

Do I really have to prove that these things exist? Are you paying attention to what I'm saying?
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We believe that blood exists,Jehova,no.
 
trentwray said:
Okay wait. Maybe I didn't see your true agenda. Are you saying that the apostate Xtians are responsible for the atheist stance ---- and that if only the atheist would properly examine the bible beyond the apostate Xtian's viral views that brainwashed US ... then we would be free from their delusions and have the opportunity to see the bible for what it is?

And if we are unwilling, it only shows that we really don't care about being under the control of the apostate Xtians ... we are merely sitting here, barking out b.s. about why the bible is wrong, and our barking is out of ignorance and laziness. Therefore, we are just as disappointing as the apostate Xtians and our lack of effort to see past their lies is what is revealing that we really don't care for the truth at all. We are our own hippocrites.

Is this essentially your synopsis of the way things are?

If it is .... you view yourself as God even more than I thought. It's not the bible you view as god, it's you.
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He does come across as an arrogant,self-satisfied git,doesn't he?
 
devnull said:
so, we throw away the supernatural, and all the bits proven incorrect by science (global flood, exodus, genesis etc) and the crappy allegory bits (Jonah etc)..... what are we left with?

Women are crap, slavery is fine, then god loses his rag and kills a bunch of people......

Yeh, thanks all the same, but Ill pass.
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Yeah just throw out the impossible parts and the stuff that can't be proven and then it's all fact. Can't you see that?
 
David Henson said:
Dude, I did that in the first post in this thread. The soul of Greek philosophy which was adopted by later Christianity probably doesn't exist, but I'm not here to talk about that except for to simply say that Christianity had adopted it and it is contrary to Biblical teaching.

The soul, according to the Bible is the blood and the life of a person or animal, and in a basic sense everything that life involves. Memories, desires, experience etc.

Do I really have to prove that these things exist? Are you paying attention to what I'm saying?
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I am paying close attention,just because the ancient Greeks talked about a soul does not mean that it exists,Which part of that sentence do you not understand? Cut out the superior attitude,it is not impressing us.
 
dafydd said:
He does come across as an arrogant,self-satisfied git,doesn't he?
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Why? Because his avatar is of Mr. Incredible typing out responses to the mediocre society before him? And because he opens threads like this:

David Henson said:
Do I really have to prove that these things exist? Are you paying attention to what I'm saying?
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David Henson said:
Wow! I have to say . . . this is the most unproductive conversation I have been in this week
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David Henson said:
don't tell me there is no evidence when I could pile evidence over your head standing up.
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David Henson said:
I'm going to try a different method than I have ever tried. I'm going to open a thread on the flood by simply asking anyone who cares to to ask me whatever they want to ask me about the flood. This could potentially save a great deal of time.
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... blessing us by "trying something different" and allowing us to speak freely, through his grace?

I'm not seeing it :) He's humble as a lark. :)
 
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David Henson said:
Oh, the evidence! Oh, yeah, we know how important the evidence is to the far superior skeptical mind of the intellectual atheist! So important!

What evidence? You want archaeological? Historical? Scientific?
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Any kind will do, yes.

The simple fact is that you believe there to be no such thing as the God of the Bible and no evidence is going to change that. Ever. So at least be intellectually honest about it.
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The simple fact is that you believe there to be such a thing as the God of the Bible and no evidence is going to change that. Ever. So at least be intellectually honest about it.

:rolleyes:

don't tell me there is no evidence when I could pile evidence over your head standing up.
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Then do so.

David Henson said:
Entertainment value, but the Bible isn't a book of fiction.
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Yes, it is.

If you knew anything about secular history you would know that it is full of fiction, even myth and legend. If you knew anything about science you would know that every new bit of science that replaces an old one has replaced and will likely be replaced by what is, in hindsight, science fiction. If you know anything about archeology you would know that it is highly subject to interpretation.
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Ad hominem tu quoque - just because other areas are flawed does not mean that the Bible is true.

David Henson said:
No, the claims that it makes are. The supernatural in the Bible isn't testable by science or any other means. So, if you took the supernatural out of the Bible you would have no reason to doubt it. You absolutely could not say that if it was written by a bunch of "bronze age goat-herders."
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:jaw-dropp

So because there's nothing supernatural in The Red Badge of Courage we have no reason to doubt that it is true? What about Forrest Gump? The Sandlot?
Also, if we took the supernatural out of the Bible, there wouldn't be much left, would there? No resurrection. No commandments. No miracles. And no god, either.
 
trentwray said:
Why? Because his avatar is of Mr. Incredible typing out responses to the mediocre society before him? And because he opens threads like this:



... blessing us by "trying something different" and allowing us to speak freely, through his grace?

I'm not seeing it :) He's humble as a lark. :)
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Reminds me of the old story about the rooster who thought that the sun rose every morning just to hear him crow.
 
Hi to everyone. According to religious philosophy, there is a big difference between the soul and the spirit, though many mix them into one. Spirit is a being created by The Most High from the flame of scorching fire (perhaps from 'plasma' in modern sense) which could be embodied or could also exist outside body. It is believed that all hot-blooded animals (birds and mammals, bipeds inclusive) possess spirit which during their live sustains otherwise unexplainable permanent temperature of their physical bodies and which departs with their death (making their physical body cold at once) and may for some time live independently, communicate with other spirits, or it may be re-embodied by entering some newly born creature of the same kind. This is also the very thing which is called "aura" in some cultures. And this is the very thing some occult speicalists are able to communicate with. The spirit is apparently mortal and can't exist for eternity - it will be physically dead one day and disassembled - in the same sense as physical bodies of other creatures that The Most High created from soil mixed with water. The soul is something different - this is the very conscience (i.e. "ability to realize" or "ability to think in a certain language") which pertain to only human beings who are: 1) elder than 2 years old, and 2) "know the difference between good and evil". So it is the very thing which developed at once in Adam and Eve once they ate the fruit of knowledge from the "forbidden tree" and at once "got their eyes OPENED (note they were simply 'opened' even before that, but not OPENED in that particular sense) and REALIZED they were naked (apparently by comparing themselves with The Most High Who was apparently dressed)". So that they got ASHAMED (to feel shame is the ability of only humans exclusively) and they made for themselves dresses from leaves (again humanistic ability to INVENT, not typical for animals which seems also having something to do with soul). The soul is apparently indestructible and is the very thing that arrives to the Final Judgment where it will be re-embodied (i.e. given a new physical body) so that the "nice guys" in the Hell will have something material to fry and to boil. If my understanding of religious philosophy does not fail me - the picture is about this.
 
David Henson said:
In an upcoming thread.
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Do it here now,why not? I won't be holding my breath,for such an intellectually superior person you appear to be unfamiliar with the concepts behind the words ''proof'' and ''evidence''. I suggest that you persuse a good dictionary before you start a new thread.What about that poor brainwashed child who ''knew'' the things that you know?
 
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