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Tags Alan Sabrosky , kevin barrett , mossad , mossad conspiracies

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Old 31st March 2010, 06:22 AM   #1
A-Train
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Mossad did 9/11? Alan Sabrosky on the Kevin Barrett Show

Dr. Alan Sabrosky, former director of studies at the US Army War College, appeared on the Kevin Barret radio show Tuesday and put forth the argument that it was the Mossad, Israel's intelligence agency, that carried out the 9/11 attacks.



Excerpts from the show:

Fake IDs

"...the manufacture of false identities is child's play in the intelligence world."

WTC7 Controlled Demolition

"...what is clear...even if there were 19 Arab hijackers of some name in thos four planes, neither they, nor the remaining al-Qaeda apparatus on the ground had the expertise or access to wire a single building for controlled demolition. They could not have done it..."

Motivation

"...the only country to benefit from the exercise, is Israel"

US Government Involvement

"...what about the CIA and Defense Department? It's important to make a distinction between those departments and agencies and the individuals within them...."

Mossad

"When you look at the one thing that could have done it as an organization, Mossad is almost by default the only one left standing. When people in the 9/11 Truth Movement... ask, 'where's the beef'-- the evidence is there. The only piece of evidence lacking is a public confession by one of the architects of the operation, and that is not going to be forthcoming, any more than public confessions by serial capital murderers are common in criminal cases. It's not going to be there."

Israeli Approval

"For Mossad to have been the primary actor, given the target-- us-- there had to have been approval for this-- for the length of time involved, the location, the people who owned and ran security for the World Trade Centers-- there had to have been approval from the highest levels of the Israeli government."

Use of Arabs


"I recall a study that was published just a day or two before 9/11, it was by the School of Advanced Military Studies at Ft. Leavenworth, a student paper, and one of the comments was to describe Mossad as ruthless, cunning, capable of conducting attacks against Americans and making it look like the Arabs had done it."

Remote Flight of Aircraft

Barrett: "How would Mossad be able to remote fly the planes? Sabrosky: "RPVs. Dov Zakheim, whom I knew in the 70s and 80s, ran a company that specialized in RPV and drone technologies. I have been told by aviators, it's possible"

All Or Nothing Gamble

"There is such a thing as a target of opportunity, and their gamble paid off. It paid off...."
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Old 31st March 2010, 06:27 AM   #2
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I thought the Israeli commandos hijacked the planes, set them on their courses, and then parachuted out of the nose?
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Old 31st March 2010, 06:39 AM   #3
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Let's quote this post from a fallen brother:

Originally Posted by Dr Adequate View Post
Well, I can only speak to your conspiracy theory so far, since it seems to be in a somewhat flexible state.

Nonetheless, let's see if we can compare the two. I shall deal here only with the hijacking/remote takeover of the planes, since this seems to be the crucial element.

Let's put the two hypotheses side by side and see how they stack up.



The Accused

The hijackers were:

19 people willing to attack their sworn enemy and gain instant access to the most exclusive district of Paradise.

Each of them has been named and identified:

http://www.danzfamily.com/pictures/p.../hijackers.jpg

The Mossad conspirators were:

An estimated 40-60 people willing to attack their sworn ally and keep quiet about it for ever. How the 40-60 estimate was arrived at I have no idea, nor whether it includes people who were subverted but not "in the loop".

Few names have been named. Occasionally a Truther will try to make out a case against Larry Silverstein on the basis that he once said "pull".



The Motive

The hijackers' target:

Al Qaeda's sworn enemy.

Mossad's target:

Israel's sworn ally.

Consequences for the hijackers if they're detected before the execution of their plot:

Al Qaeda loses nineteen operatives, causes some terror, is already at war with the US so has nothing to lose on that score, possibly attracts more donations.

Consequences for Mossad if they're detected before the execution of their plot:

Israel loses its best ally, probably all its other Western allies, and most likely its chances of survival.

Consequences for the hijackers if their identity is discovered after the crime:

None whatsoever.

Consequences for Mossad if their identity is discovered after the crime:

See above; only worse, because an actual atrocity is more shocking than a thwarted one.

The hijackers stand to gain:

Al Qaeda's greatest victory ever against the infidel, plus 72 virgins apiece.

Mossad stand to gain:

The support of the US for Israel ... which they already have ... and would lose instantly if they were found out.



Previous Record

Previous Muslim terrorist attacks or attempted attacks on American soil:
  • The Millenium LAX bomb plot.
  • The 1993 WTC attack.
  • The blind sheihk plan to bomb the NYC tunnels.
  • The plot to blow up a NYC subway in Brooklyn.
  • The murder of tourists on the top of the Empire State Building.
This list is not necessarily exhaustive, nor of course does it include attacks on Americans abroad, such as the attack on the USS Cole.

Previous Mossad attacks or attempted attacks on American soil:
  • I got nothing.


The Means

The hijackers needed:
  • Four trained pilots, which they had.
  • Knives, which they bought.
  • Airplane tickets, which they bought.
Mossad needed:
  • Nonexistent real-time voice morphing software which could imitate the voices of people who Mossad couldn't have predicted would be on the planes with such perfection as to fool their own families.
  • A nonexistent device which allows them to fly a jumbo jet by remote control.
  • Some way of smuggling nerve gas onto airplanes without getting on board themselves.
  • To fake all the actions, not to mention the appearance, of the nineteen "hijackers" for a couple of years, undetected by their family and friends, including one final tour de force where they manage to pretend to board airplanes while in reality "slipping out the side".


The Opportunity

The hijackers needed:

To get on the planes, which they did.

Mossad needed:

Sheesh, where do you start? Just how many people do they need to subvert to have any opportunity?



The Evidence

The evidence for the hijackers taking over the planes by force includes:
  • Their martyrdom tapes.
  • Further claims of responsibility by Al Qaeda top brass.
  • Their acquisition of piloting skills (with no subsequent attempts to become commerical pilots).
  • Their purchase of the requisite weapons, plane tickets, etc.
  • Evidence and witnesses showing that they checked in and boarded.
  • DNA evidence matching bodies from ground zero to vehicles and hotel rooms used by the hijackers.
  • The fact that five (or in one case four) of this group now known to be associated with one another and with al Qaeda were on each of the hijacked planes.
  • Cockpit recordings of men speaking in Arabic.
  • Eyewitness accounts from the planes.
The evidence for Mossad taking over the planes by remote control includes:
  • Zilch.
The evidence against the hijackers taking over the planes by force includes:
  • Nada
The evidence against Mossad taking over the planes by remote control includes:
  • It's technically impossible.
  • There's no evidence for it.
  • All the evidence that proves that the planes were actually hijacked, including tricky stuff like eyewitness acounts and DNA evidence and al Qaeda claiming responsibility.


The Plea

Al Qaeda:

Proudly claim responsibility.

Mossad:

Say that al Qaeda did it.



The Verdict

Well, 9/11-researcher?

Against whom is there the stronger case?

As has been pointed out to you, you are accusing people of mass murder, this is not a game.
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Old 31st March 2010, 06:40 AM   #4
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Why would Israel attack its one sure supporter? With the history of these things usually being found out what on earth would they have to gain when they would be risking everything?
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Old 31st March 2010, 06:51 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by A-Train View Post
WTC7 Controlled Demolition

"...what is clear...even if there were 19 Arab hijackers of some name in thos four planes, neither they, nor the remaining al-Qaeda apparatus on the ground had the expertise or access to wire a single building for controlled demolition. They could not have done it..."

Motivation

"...the only country to benefit from the exercise, is Israel"
this assumed that WTC 7 has been PROVED to be a controlled demolition. in fact, the opposite is true.

plus the fact that one could argue that the USA and various American corporations benefited greatly from 9-11.

clearly, this guy has an anti-Israel bias.
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Old 31st March 2010, 06:56 AM   #6
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Quote:
The evidence against Mossad taking over the planes by remote control includes:

* It's technically impossible.
Thats not so. Its possible just very very very very (very to the power 10!) unlikely. Cruise missiles and tv bombs show that it is quite possible to RC a high speed aircraft. Getting that equipment on an commercial jet without anyone noticing would be so risky that no one would attempt it on one let alone four aircraft.
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Old 31st March 2010, 07:29 AM   #7
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the backlash against Israel...if it turned out they simply knew the date and target of attack..and didn't tell the USA....would be huge.

i don't think Israel would take such a risk.
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Old 31st March 2010, 07:53 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by A-Train View Post
Motivation

"...the only country to benefit from the exercise, is Israel"
Nothing like a false premise, given that only conspiracy peddlers are claiming that a country was trying to benefit from 9/11. The rest of the sane, evidence-based world realizes that it's a terrorist group, not a nation, who undertook 9/11 for benefit.
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Old 31st March 2010, 07:54 AM   #9
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The intention here, of course, is to imply that Sabrosky is an expert in his subject matter, and that his views should be considered strong evidence in favour of the theory that Mossad was responsible for the 9/11 attacks. This is the argument from authority, which is a fallacy in formal logic; see Wikipedia for a useful definition.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

I would draw attention to the following passage:

Quote:
A person who is recognized as an expert authority often has greater experience and knowledge of their field than the average person, so their opinion is more likely than average to be correct. In practical subjects such as car repair, an experienced mechanic who knows how to fix a certain car will be trusted to a greater degree than someone who is not an expert in car repair. There are many cases where one must rely on an expert, and cannot be reasonably expected to have the same experience, knowledge and skill that that person has. Many trust a surgeon without ever needing to know all the details about surgery themselves. Nevertheless, experts can still be mistaken, wilfully deceptive, subject to pressure from peers or employers, have a vested financial interest in the false statements, or have unusual views (or views that are widely criticized by other experts) within their field (this makes the majority of experts right, and thus the renegade expert is wrong), and hence their expertise does not always guarantee that their arguments are valid.
Sabrosky's views are certainly not shared by the majority of his peers, and would therefore qualify as being "unusual views". So, even if his statements didn't contradict reality - in that, for example, WTC7 was not demolished in a controlled implosion, al-Qaeda is entirely capable of having given nineteen men money and instructed them to train as pilots and buy airline tickets on specific flights, and there is no plausible evidence of Mossad involvement, this testimony would still be no more than speculation.

Dave
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Old 31st March 2010, 08:02 AM   #10
T.A.M.
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He is a paranoid idiot. Do you know why I know this? Because he believes the Mossad carried out 9/11. That alone qualifies him as a *********** moron.

NEXT!

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Old 31st March 2010, 08:05 AM   #11
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military contractors and suppliers profited greatly, from 9-11.

Boeing did 9-11!!!!!
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Old 31st March 2010, 08:07 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by 240-185 View Post
Let's quote this post from a fallen brother:
I may not have agreed with Dr. A's on everything, but man, some things he sure could nail dead on:
Originally Posted by Dr Adequate View Post
The Motive

The hijackers' target:

Al Qaeda's sworn enemy.

Mossad's target:

Israel's sworn ally.

Consequences for the hijackers if they're detected before the execution of their plot:

Al Qaeda loses nineteen operatives, causes some terror, is already at war with the US so has nothing to lose on that score, possibly attracts more donations.

Consequences for Mossad if they're detected before the execution of their plot:

Israel loses its best ally, probably all its other Western allies, and most likely its chances of survival.

Consequences for the hijackers if their identity is discovered after the crime:

None whatsoever.

Consequences for Mossad if their identity is discovered after the crime:

See above; only worse, because an actual atrocity is more shocking than a thwarted one.

The hijackers stand to gain:

Al Qaeda's greatest victory ever against the infidel, plus 72 virgins apiece.

Mossad stand to gain:

The support of the US for Israel ... which they already have ... and would lose instantly if they were found out.

Previous Record

Previous Muslim terrorist attacks or attempted attacks on American soil:
  • The Millenium LAX bomb plot.
  • The 1993 WTC attack.
  • The blind sheihk plan to bomb the NYC tunnels.
  • The plot to blow up a NYC subway in Brooklyn.
  • The murder of tourists on the top of the Empire State Building.
This list is not necessarily exhaustive, nor of course does it include attacks on Americans abroad, such as the attack on the USS Cole.

Previous Mossad attacks or attempted attacks on American soil:
  • I got nothing.
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Old 31st March 2010, 09:14 AM   #13
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Has anyone verified if Dr. Sabrosky was ever employed at the US Army War College?
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Old 31st March 2010, 11:51 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by stewieg View Post
Has anyone verified if Dr. Sabrosky was ever employed at the US Army War College?
It would be interesting to do so, but it's not critical. I'd like an answer to that myself, since I'm curious about it. But we all can admit that, since these are standard trutherisms, they fail for reasons that have nothing to do with whether this Sabrosky fellow was ever employed there or not.

This post is not intended to shoot down research into the question, though. As I said, I'm wondering about this association myself.
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Old 31st March 2010, 12:44 PM   #15
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Hey everybody! A-Train's back!

To what do we owe the pleasure of this visit, AT?

Did a "joo" (or at least someone you think may have been a "joo") cut you off in traffic and you needed to vent?
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Old 31st March 2010, 12:45 PM   #16
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I fired an email off to Professor Douglas C. Lovelace, Jr., Director of the Strategic Studies Institute, US Army War College to verify this information.

Who knows if his staff will reply. I'll let you know.

And yes, I did mention the claims that Professor Sabrosky is making.
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Old 31st March 2010, 12:46 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by A-Train View Post
Dr. Alan Sabrosky, former director of studies at the US Army War College, appeared on the Kevin Barret radio show
Post self-debunked in the first sentence.

Thanks for saving us the trouble.
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Old 31st March 2010, 12:46 PM   #18
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btw, I'm sure it's no coincidence that the interview took place on March 30, during Jewish Passover... really classy.
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Old 31st March 2010, 01:15 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Sword_Of_Truth View Post
Hey everybody! A-Train's back!

To what do we owe the pleasure of this visit, AT?

Did a "joo" (or at least someone you think may have been a "joo") cut you off in traffic and you needed to vent?
I think he is upset that 9/11 Investigator is cutting deep into his turf as the bigtime Jew Hater at JREF. After all, he already has to split the turf with MaGZ and A Train has decided to show the upstart who is boss in the bigotry department.
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Old 31st March 2010, 01:42 PM   #20
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Quote:
Motivation

"...the only country to benefit from the exercise, is Israel"
Oh, and Iran of course, who not only saw the Taliban (murderers of Iranian diplomats and generally anti-Shia) swept out of power, but as a bonus looked on as Saddam got his marching orders, allowing massively increased influence for Tehran in its neighbours affairs.
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Old 31st March 2010, 01:44 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by stewieg View Post
Has anyone verified if Dr. Sabrosky was ever employed at the US Army War College?

I tried and found some indications that he was. F.e., a businessweek article from the 80s mentioned him already as "former director of research" there. Not much about his career after that, he doesn't even have a wikipedia article (last week when i checked).
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Old 31st March 2010, 02:15 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Debaser View Post
Oh, and Iran of course, who not only saw the Taliban (murderers of Iranian diplomats and generally anti-Shia) swept out of power, but as a bonus looked on as Saddam got his marching orders, allowing massively increased influence for Tehran in its neighbours affairs.
How about China? Gaining ground relative to the USA, tying them up in two messy wars, profiting from the new grip on oil resources...?
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Old 31st March 2010, 11:06 PM   #23
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You could replace "Mossad" with "The League of Super Villains" and it would be as, if not more, valid.
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Old 1st April 2010, 03:41 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I think he is upset that 9/11 Investigator is cutting deep into his turf as the bigtime Jew Hater at JREF. After all, he already has to split the turf with MaGZ and A Train has decided to show the upstart who is boss in the bigotry department.
Even worse, RedIbis keeps pretending all three of them don't exist. I think he felt he had to post something here to check it wasn't true.

Dave
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Old 4th May 2010, 05:11 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by alienentity View Post
I fired an email off to Professor Douglas C. Lovelace, Jr., Director of the Strategic Studies Institute, US Army War College to verify this information.

Who knows if his staff will reply. I'll let you know.

And yes, I did mention the claims that Professor Sabrosky is making.

Did you get an answer? My pet truther raised this on another forum.
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Old 4th May 2010, 05:16 AM   #26
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found this on Google. This does not say much for the screening process in the US army

http://www.strategicstudiesinstitute...cfm?authorID=9
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Old 4th May 2010, 01:29 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by BaaBaa View Post
You could replace "Mossad" with "The League of Super Villains" and it would be as, if not more, valid.
NO NO NO!!! Buckaroo Banzai and the Hong Kong Cavliers defeated them back in the 90's, remember?
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Old 4th May 2010, 01:37 PM   #28
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Israel reacts after hearing of 9/11 attacks!

New video!
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Old 4th May 2010, 01:42 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Comsat Angel View Post
NO NO NO!!! Buckaroo Banzai and the Hong Kong Cavliers defeated them back in the 90's, remember?
No, it was the World Criminal League that Buckaroo Took down.
League of Super Villians, if memory serves, was handled by the Legion of Super Heros in DC comics.
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Old 4th May 2010, 03:09 PM   #30
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Yeah yeah yeah, I knew that, I've read "Return of the Screw" an' all!

Sheesh, can't a comic 'n' video anorak make an inside joke without the Comedy Secret Police stomping all over him?

And another thing - (cont. Page 96)
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Old 4th May 2010, 04:28 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by dtugg View Post
I thought the Israeli commandos hijacked the planes, set them on their courses, and then parachuted out of the nose?
You are a conspiracy theorist!
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Old 4th May 2010, 04:32 PM   #32
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So the people here are basically saying that the US Army War College likes to hire conspiracy theorists.
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Old 4th May 2010, 04:36 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by A-Train View Post
Ah, the serial killer eyewear, always a good look for a man.
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Old 4th May 2010, 06:27 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Galileo View Post
So the people here are basically saying that the US Army War College likes to hire conspiracy theorists.
Which when you think about it almost makes sense.......it lets them think outside the box (way outside in this guys case) and identify potential threats that conventional soldiers would never come up with.
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Old 4th May 2010, 06:29 PM   #35
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if the Israelis did 9-11...it would have been a lot more successful.
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Old 4th May 2010, 11:53 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by sheeplesnshills View Post
Which when you think about it almost makes sense.......it lets them think outside the box (way outside in this guys case) and identify potential threats that conventional soldiers would never come up with.
Yeah. They have to try and get into the other guys head and try to figure out the strategies and tactics that they might employ then present those to the generals and admirals to figure out possible counter strategies and tactics that they might employ.

Of course it's all theoretical and the odds are that they could be completely off target because the other side has their own people doing the exact same thing. Call it 50/50 that anything of worth comes out of it but that's better than 10/90 because you didn't bother to do it and decided that winging it was just as good.
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Old 5th May 2010, 01:24 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by BaaBaa View Post
You could replace "Mossad" with "The League of Super Villains" and it would be as, if not more, valid.
I am a "Sinister Six" man myself....
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Old 8th September 2010, 07:45 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by alienentity View Post
I fired an email off to Professor Douglas C. Lovelace, Jr., Director of the Strategic Studies Institute, US Army War College to verify this information.

Who knows if his staff will reply. I'll let you know.

And yes, I did mention the claims that Professor Sabrosky is making.
Did you ever get a reply?
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Old 8th September 2010, 09:32 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Panoply_Prefect View Post
Did you ever get a reply?
This is what I have gathered;

"Alan Sabrosky is a writer and consultant specializing in national and international security affairs. In December 1988, he received the Superior Civilian Service Award after more than five years of service at the U.S. Army War College as Director of Studies, Strategic Studies Institute, and holder of the General of the Army Douglas MacArthur Chair of Research. He is listed in WHO'S WHO IN THE EAST (23rd ed.). A Marine Corps Vietnam veteran and a 1986 graduate of the U.S. Army War College, Dr. Sabrosky's teaching and research appointments have included the United States Military Academy, the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS), Middlebury College and Catholic University; while in government service, he held concurrent adjunct professorships at Georgetown University and the Johns Hopkins University School of Advanced International Studies (SAIS). Dr. Sabrosky has lectured widely on defense and foreign affairs in the United States and abroad."*

And for the record, I am not in the least anti-semitic.

A belief that there was Mossad involvement in 9/11 does not equate to anti-jewish sentiment.

MM
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Old 8th September 2010, 09:44 AM   #40
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I found this:

http://adamholland.blogspot.com/2010...f-us-jews.html

Excerpt:

Quote:
Sabrosky has deliberately inflated his role in the military and has used that ruse to promote a hateful, fact-free conspiracy theory. In fact, while he did work as an administrator at the U.S. Army War College, he was not, as his job title seems to indicate, the director or dean of the college. Far from it. According to the Press Office of the Army War College, in the mid-1980s, Sabrosky served as a civilian administrator at a research department of the college, supervising the publication of papers written within that department. His job title was "Director of Studies" because he supervised publishing studies done within a department of the college. He was a mid-level civilian manager at a military college, without access to the sort of highly classified material of the sort he now fraudulently claims to have. Moreover, since his employment at that school was about 25 years ago, his employment there would provide him with no special insights with respect to 9/11
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