Moderated Iron sun with Aether batteries...

Status
Not open for further replies.
Betting with Mozina III

Perpetual Student said:
There have been many provocative posts here by many. ...
Click to expand...
No doubt rules requiring a civilized discussion are a good way to keep things on track; "attack the message, not the messenger". But it is certainly relevant when the message is flawed because the messenger is flawed, and that is exactly the case with Mozina, the messenger is flawed. Just look at what he does. It has been proven that the most fundamental & well established laws of physics are clearly violated by his solar model, but he simply ignores it. Decades of direct observations of the sun prove conclusively that his model is wrong, but he simply ignores it. Even when it is pointed out to him that his "gap", "proving" that the transition region & chromosphere are under the photosphere, is nothing but an artifact of image processing, his only response is "that's wrong". For whatever reason, Mozina is not able to deal in any way with the concept of being wrong; he can't & won't live with it at all.

Like I said before, replying to Mozina ...
Tim Thompson said:
Am I going to bet with you? Not a chance. Your "analysis" of the SDO images up to this point has been exceptionally stupid. I predict that it will continue to be equally stupid in the future. Just as you wildly misinterpret the SDO images today, so will you wildly misinterpret the SDO images in the future. You will see some fuzzy color somewhere in some image, wildly misinterpret it, and declare yourself the winner and the standard theory dead (as you have in fact done already several times with an equivalent level of stupidity). Since we know in advance that you will claim to have "won" the bet, quite regardless of what is actually in the images, why would anyone bother to bet with you?
Click to expand...

No science, no image, no failed prediction, nothing can alter Mozina's fixed conviction. I don't do this for him, that's pointless, I do it for 2 reasons. First, I learn quite a bit myself crafting responses to various bizarre claims, and I don't mind learning. Second, I like to think I provide a counter point to Mozina's point, for all those "lurkers" out there, and anybody else.
 
Tim Thompson said:
No science, no image, no failed prediction, nothing can alter Mozina's fixed conviction. I don't do this for him, that's pointless, I do it for 2 reasons. First, I learn quite a bit myself crafting responses to various bizarre claims, and I don't mind learning. Second, I like to think I provide a counter point to Mozina's point, for all those "lurkers" out there, and anybody else.
Click to expand...


I've been reading your material online since at least 2005 when I first encountered some of the Electric Universe cranks. Your input here, like your reports elsewhere online, is focused, organized, and thorough. Thanks, sir, for giving your time and attention to these discussions.
 
Tim Thompson said:
I don't do this for him, that's pointless, I do it for 2 reasons. First, I learn quite a bit myself crafting responses to various bizarre claims, and I don't mind learning. Second, I like to think I provide a counter point to Mozina's point, for all those "lurkers" out there, and anybody else.
Click to expand...

This lurker would like to thank you for your exceptionally educational and entertaining contributions.
 
And, for your amusement, a humorous rant from another forum where the poster describes what it's like to engage in the kind of debate you folks have been having with MM (some of you might have read it via the "wind cart" thread. It cracked me up :)

A taste, (the name is edited) :

You want a tennis analogy? OK. If I was playing tennis against <MM> , it's like this. I'm waiting for him to play tennis. You know, according to rules that would be recognised as tennis somewhere else on Earth. So far he's been playing with a piece of chalk in his pocket and several times drawn new lines when my shot was in and pronounced it out. We're having a long argument about lines, which he swears he can draw anywhere and they don't have to be the shortest distance from one place to another......

linky
 
Michael Mozina - 05/03/2010 said:
If it doesn't show what I think it shows then my theory is falsified! What more do you want? I can only stick my neck out so many times in hope that you might actually lop it off and get it over with. Unfortunately for you there is a green 4800km problem in your theory in just the first round of first light SDO images. The SSM will not survive SDO.
Click to expand...


And from over four years ago...

Michael Mozina - 02/09/2006 said:
[Skeptic Friends Network]: I hear you on that point. I've already stuck my neck *WAY* out on a limb with the STEREO program. I'm betting the farm that they'll "discover" that the 171A, 195A, and 284A image originate *underneath* the photosphere, not above it. That's a real falsification mechanism that I'll accept as a viable way to determine which "interpretation" is accurate, and there should not be much room for error. I'm going to pay close attention to that data, I assure you. I'm interesting in both proving my case and also in falsifying it as well.
Click to expand...


Unbelievable. :rolleyes:
 
Skwinty said:
Well in my opinion, MM does have a vivid imagination and would have done well in the stone age spurring Neanderthals on to out of the box thinking.
Click to expand...

That seems to be a timeless skill Skqinty! I've been trying to get these guys to think outside SSM box for years now.
biggrin.gif


http://www.newsdaily.com/stories/tre6455bw-us-neanderthals-genes/

He also has incredible stamina and the hide of a rhinocerous.

Pointed barbs and poison tipped arrows have no effect on him.
I am trying to say something good about him mind you.:)
Click to expand...

Why thanks. You got that part pegged. I can dish it out pretty good too, but alas that always seems to get me in trouble. :)
 
Tim Thompson said:
No doubt rules requiring a civilized discussion are a good way to keep things on track; "attack the message, not the messenger". But......
Click to expand...

You just couldn't help yourself. :)

It has been proven that the most fundamental & well established laws of physics are clearly violated by his solar model, but he simply ignores it.
Click to expand...

You have that backwards. You have consistently failed to judge this solar model based on it's specifications. The irony of course is that it was the SSM that has been shown to be in violation of the laws of physics, not my model. My model "predicts" light can come up and through a highly ionized atmosphere. It's your solar model that flunked the physics test.

Decades of direct observations of the sun prove conclusively that his model is wrong, but he simply ignores it.
Click to expand...

Decades of limited resolution and capability just got overturned in SDO images Tim. You seem to be ignoring the images entirely. LMSAL put the transition region in the wrong place Tim, just as I've said now for 5 years.

Even when it is pointed out to him that his "gap", "proving" that the transition region & chromosphere are under the photosphere, is nothing but an artifact of image processing, his only response is "that's wrong".
Click to expand...

It is wrong, ridiculously wrong in fact.

http://aia.lmsal.com/public/firstlight.html
http://aia.lmsal.com/public/firstlight/20100408_044515/f_211_193_171.jpg
http://aia.lmsal.com/public/firstlight/20100408_013015/f_094_335_193.jpg
http://aia.lmsal.com/public/firstlight/20100408_013015/f0193.gif

I defy you to find any iron ion wavelength in SDO that doesn't have a bright horizon line, and underneath of that bright line, an opaque limb. In fact I defy you to find any TRACE high resolution image of the limb that doesn't also show that same "feature". That is not an "artifact" Tim, it's in *EVERY* iron ion limb image of the sun.

No science, no image, no failed prediction, nothing can alter Mozina's fixed conviction.
Click to expand...

False again. If that opaque limb wasn't 4800Km under the chromosphere, that would have done it. If that RD technique I suggested fails, that too would falsify the theory. There are any number of visual ways to falsify this theory and evidently no visual ways to falsify the SSM because that "transition region" is definitely in the wrong location to be congruent with the SSM theory. That transition region denoted by the limb dimming is located under the chromosphere, not inside of it, just as my solar theory predicts. This electric solar theory also predict that the outline of the RD image will appear along that limb dimmed region in pretty much all the iron ion wavelenths. I'm a wee worried about 94A just because of the interference issue, but even that will probably work out exactly the same.
 
Last edited:
Michael Mozina said:
I defy you to find any iron ion wavelength in SDO that doesn't have a bright horizon line, and underneath of that bright line, an opaque limb.
Click to expand...

How does that differ from the SSM? And how does an opaque limb fit into your theory that you can see through the photosphere?
 
GeeMack said:
I've asked Michael many times over the years why he doesn't get someone with some math skills to help, since he clearly must know he lacks those capabilities himself.
Click to expand...

What are you talking about? I had no trouble at all coming up with the size of the disk. I had to pay our dear Mr. Spock to help *YOU* come with with a circumference of your pie chart and you *STILL* won't produce the diameter! Since I can’t get a single one of you to come up with any other numerical predictions, I am personally going to stake out the 1201KM region +- 1200Km region *above* the photosphere since that would be the most logical region for the disk to appear based on LMSAL’s claim. If I get hit with that particular "prediction", I least I know that *I* was the one that put my own theory out of it’s misery since none of you seem willing to do it for me via quantified physics. I don’t need your help to figure that number out on my own. Coming up with numbers seems to be your problem, not mine.
 
Last edited:
Michael Mozina said:
False again. If that opaque limb wasn't 4800Km under the chromosphere, that would have done it. If that RD technique I suggested fails, that too would falsify the theory. There are any number of visual ways to falsify this theory and evidently no visual ways to falsify the SSM because that "transition region" is definitely in the wrong location to be congruent with the SSM theory. That transition region denoted by the limb dimming is located under the chromosphere, not inside of it, just as my solar theory predicts. This electric solar theory also predict that the outline of the RD image will appear along that limb dimmed region in pretty much all the iron ion wavelenths. I'm a wee worried about 94A just because of the interference issue, but even that will probably work out exactly the same.
Click to expand...


Just in case there are any newbies or lurkers here, Michael's argument about running difference images supporting his crackpot conjecture is simply false. They don't. And when he claims they do, he's being dishonest. A running difference graph is just a graphical representation of a series of mathematical calculations.

Remember, Michael's qualifications to understand solar imagery have been challenged and he has been unable to demonstrate that he has any such qualifications. His qualifications to understand math at a level necessary to add and subtract two digit numbers has been challenged, too. He has also been unable to demonstrate that he possesses those qualifications.
 
GeeMack said:
You are being totally ambiguous. How much longer? What cadence?
Click to expand...

Please go back to your friends in the SDO program and tell them that the limb line dimming "feature" of the transition region is not and cannot be any sort of image “artifact” in the 171A wavelength or other iron ion wavelengths related to SDO or TRACE. That limb dimming and opacity (your definition) appears in every single limb image. If they disagree with me, please have them produce for us a limb line image in 171A from TRACE or from SDO that shows no sign of limb line dimming along the horizon.

Better yet, have your friends at SDO go round up the software that was used to create this image:

171surfaceshotsmall.JPG


Have them apply that same software technique to the SDO 171A images and overlay the chromosphere on that image. You'll see exactly what I'm talking about.

Directly related how?
Click to expand...

The iron from the surface all originates from the same place. The various ionization states are simply related to the current flow inside the loops. Since all the iron originates from that opaque limb dimming region, all the iron ion RD images will outline that 4800km region, no the interior of the chromosphere.


Nobody else here is making a crackpot claim.
Click to expand...

You claim to want a civil conversation, but there you go right back to the 'crackpot in every post' routine. Hoy. Who taught you the term "civil conversation" anyway?
 
Michael Mozina said:
What are you talking about? I had no trouble at all coming up with the size of the disk. I had to pay our dear Mr. Spock to help *YOU* come with with a diameter of your pie chart.
Click to expand...


No lying allowed, Michael. Nobody in this discussion has come up with a diameter of a pie chart.

Since I can’t get a single one of you to come up with any other numerical predictions, I am personally going to stake out the 1201KM region +- 1200Km region *above* the photosphere since that would be the most logical region for the disk to appear based on LMSAL’s claim. If I get hit with that particular "prediction", I least I know that *I* was the one that put my own theory out of it’s misery since none of you seem willing to do it for me via quantified physics. I don’t need your help to figure that number out on my own. Coming up with numbers seems to be your problem, not mine.
Click to expand...


Your argument here is more incoherent babbling. Piece by piece, stake out what claim for what reason? Can you define what you mean by disk? What the hell is LMSAL's claim? What do you mean by "hit"? Like, if you see something that isn't there as you do with all the other solar imagery you stare at? Oh, you don't have a theory. It's a conjecture, a guess, based on grade school looks-like-a-bunny misunderstanding of a simple optical illusion. And you have claimed before that this-or-that would put your crackpot conjecture to rest. When this-or-that comes to show just how miserably failed your argument is, you continue babbling your argument from incredulity and ignorance. Nobody believes you'll accept anything as a falsification, because you've posed the same kind of dishonest arguments in the past.
 
GeeMack said:
Just in case there are any newbies or lurkers here, Michael's argument about running difference images supporting his crackpot conjecture is simply false. They don't. And when he claims they do, he's being dishonest.
Click to expand...

You call that civil? You and I have a strong disagreement about what it means, but I'm not "dishonest" and I'm really trying hard to give you the benefit of the doubt too. At worst case one of us has lots of conviction and is simply wrong. One test will tell.

Remember, Michael's qualifications to understand solar imagery have been challenged......
Click to expand...

Not in an honest scientific way with real numbers. Care to give it a whirl?
 
GeeMack said:
No lying allowed, Michael.
Click to expand...

That's a civil sentence in your opinion? The only one lying is the one that failed to put numbers on the table when it became crunch time. I put my numbers up. Did you?

Nobody in this discussion has come up with a diameter of a pie chart.
Click to expand...

That's because you are afraid to come up with any numbers. If you were not afraid, you would put up your diameter and let history decide. You'd rather smear me on personal level instead. The only one acting dishonestly is you. I have made my next prediction. I've told you how to test it. I've been specific about how it will line up with the limb dimming feature of the original images and it will be consistently 4800Km inside the chromosphere, +- 1200KM. What were your numbers again?
 
Last edited:
Michael Mozina said:
Please go back to your friends in the SDO program and tell them that the limb line dimming "feature" of the transition region is not and cannot be any sort of image “artifact” in the 171A wavelength or other iron ion wavelengths related to SDO or TRACE. That limb dimming and opacity (your definition) appears in every single limb image. If they disagree with me, please have them produce for us a limb line image in 171A from TRACE or from SDO that shows no sign of limb line dimming along the horizon.

Better yet, have your friends at SDO go round up the software that was used to create this image:

[qimg]http://www.thesurfaceofthesun.com/images/171surfaceshotsmall.JPG[/qimg]

Have them apply that same software technique to the SDO 171A images and overlay the chromosphere on that image. You'll see exactly what I'm talking about.
Click to expand...


Your qualifications to understand solar imagery of any sort have been challenged and you have been unwilling and/or unable to demonstrate that you are so qualified. Your qualifications to understand solar science terminology have been challenged, also, and you haven't been able to demonstrate that you have any qualifications in that area. Your use of terms like "limb dimming", "transition region", "iron ion wavelengths", and "opacity" is different than the way they might be used by legitimate astrophysicists. And you have yet to define your use of them in an unambiguous way.

The iron from the surface all originates from the same place. The various ionization states are simply related to the current flow inside the loops. Since all the iron originates from that opaque limb dimming region, all the iron ion RD images will outline that 4800km region, no the interior of the chromosphere.
Click to expand...


There is no iron on the surface in the way you believe it to be. There is no current flow inside the loops in the way that you believe it to be. Your qualification to understand limb darkening has been challenged and you haven't been able to show that you are qualified to understand it. And nothing in a running difference image shows anything except a graphical representation of a series of mathematical computations. But your qualifications to understand calculation of two digit numbers has been challenged, and you haven't been able to demonstrate that you are qualified to do so.

You claim to want a civil conversation, but there you go right back to the 'crackpot in every post' routine. Hoy. Who taught you the term "civil conversation" anyway?
Click to expand...


Your claim is by definition a crackpot conjecture.
 
GeeMack said:
Your qualifications to understand solar imagery of any sort have been challenged ......
Click to expand...

You have never "challenged" me in an open, honest scientific way with real numbers. Honest men do things the honest way. I put up my honest attempt at coming up with an honest number. Did you?

Your claim is by definition a crackpot conjecture.
Click to expand...

You want 'civil' conversation, yet you are incapable of posting a single post without the term 'crackpot' or 'crank' or some other put down in your post. Is that really "civil' conversation in your mind? Are you really that deluded?
 
GeeMack said:
There is no iron on the surface in the way you believe it to be.
Click to expand...

Then when we run the long cadence RD image, the edge of the disk will not align with the limb dimming feature at 4800K. If there is a on iron rich surface, that's exactly what will happen.
 
Michael Mozina said:
You call that civil? You and I have a strong disagreement about what it means, but I'm not "dishonest" and I'm really trying hard to give you the benefit of the doubt too. At worst case one of us has lots of conviction and is simply wrong. One test will tell.
Click to expand...


You've used that "one test will tell" argument so many times in the past, and you've failed to acknowledge the failures of those tests. Your repetition of that argument seems likely to provide the same results.

Not in an honest scientific way with real numbers. Care to give it a whirl?
Click to expand...


Of course I've used real numbers, so your objection is dishonest. Remember when I said that running difference graph you posted, on my monitor, is about 1/17209728800th the dimension of the lower boundary of the chromosphere? Post another one and I'll calculate the relative size of it, too. It's math. Understand?
 
Dear GM,

Use those contacts at NASA for something useful. Remind them that their so called "artifact" is a "feature" of every iron ion limb image released to date from SDO. Tell them if they want a high resolution version of the disk, all they have to do is use that same exact software routine that created this image:

171surfaceshotsmall.JPG


Have them overlay that RD image in 171A with the chromosphere. Have them publish the image. Let's see what happens.
 
GeeMack said:
You've used that "one test will tell" argument so many times in the past, and you've failed to acknowledge the failures of those tests.
Click to expand...

Actually, my theory passed that green light test with flying colors. Your SSM theory flunked the physics test entirely!

Will the disk be on the chromosphere, or inside the chromosphere?
 
Michael Mozina said:
That's a civil sentence in your opinion? The only one lying is the one that failed to put numbers on the table when it became crunch time. I put my numbers up. Did you?
Click to expand...


I've told you exactly what the mathematical formula is for making a running difference graph. When it comes to graphs, that's really the only relevant numbers. It's math, simple addition and subtraction of two and three digit numbers.

But you seem to forget you're the one making a claim here. Nobody else has any responsibility to do your work for you. The burden of proof, Michael, is yours and yours alone.

That's because you are afraid to come up with any numbers. If you were not afraid, you would put up your diameter and let history decide. You'd rather smear me on personal level instead. The only one acting dishonestly is you. I have made my next prediction. I've told you how to test it. I've been specific about how it will line up with the limb dimming feature of the original images and it will be consistently 4800Km inside the chromosphere, +- 1200KM. What were your numbers again?
Click to expand...


I predict that the results of analysis of the SDO images will be in agreement with the current consensus position that the Sun's diameter is approximately 1.39 million kilometers.

Oh, and your continued claim to be able to see through 80,000 kilometers of plasma is ludicrous. It's a ridiculous, totally unsupportable argument from ignorance.
 
Last edited:
Michael Mozina said:
Actually, my theory passed that green light test with flying colors. Your SSM theory flunked the physics test entirely!
Click to expand...

It wasn't a test at all, Michael. It was an image processing artifact. The only failure was your understanding.

In fact, you're a complete failure from top to bottom when it comes to physics. Your errors are legion. Seriously, have you ever even taken a physics course?

And yes, Michael, I'm attacking you personally, because you deserve it. You have spent years here, arguing in bad faith, ignoring the problems with your model, refusing to answer basic questions, avoiding quantification at every turn. I've tried to actually argue substance with you, but you refuse to do so. My patience with you has worn out. You are a delusional troll, nothing more. You will grow old and die without any serious scientist accepting your model, because your model is crackpottery.
 
ben m said:
And let's not forget a week or two ago:
Click to expand...

Do the RD test I just mentioned. FYI, that "artifact" exists in every SDO and TRACE limb image. It's not an artifact of any sort. In fact those little jagged edges are distinct characteristics of the transition region as seen in any TRACE limb image. LMSAL just put the 'transition region' on the wrong side of the inside edge of the chromosphere.
 
Michael Mozina said:
Actually, my theory passed that green light test with flying colors. Your SSM theory flunked the physics test entirely!

Will the disk be on the chromosphere, or inside the chromosphere?
Click to expand...


Word salad. What disk? What chromosphere? What do you mean by "on" and "inside"? What scale? And what organization of professional astrophysicists will we have as the arbiter of the success of your prediction?

And what if there's a greater error in the number of pixels than the number you claim to be significant to your claim? I've told you a dozen times now there are some serious errors with that SDO PR image that you so thoroughly misunderstand. Count those pixels again. You miscounted... badly. :p
 
Ziggurat said:
It wasn't a test at all, Michael. It was an image processing artifact.
Click to expand...

Baloney! That limb dimming "feature" exist in *EVERY* iron ion wavelength. Find me one SDO image that doesn't have that "artifact"? That is *NOT* an artifact.

And yes, Michael, I'm attacking you personally, because you deserve it.
Click to expand...
Nope. Nobody on Earth deserves this sort of treatment.

You have spent years here, arguing in bad faith, ignoring the problems with your model,
Click to expand...

The only "problems" I've ignored are the the problems you percieve based on your own theories, not mine.

refusing to answer basic questions, avoiding quantification at every turn.
Click to expand...

Boloney. I gave you a quantified number on that disk size. I've explained how to find it. Nobody here will even bet their public position on the outcome.

You are a delusional troll, nothing more. You will grow old and die without any serious scientist accepting your model, because your model is crackpottery.
Click to expand...

And you guys want to have a civil dialog?

I dare each and every one of you to come up with a published SDO or Trace Limb image that doesn't show that same limb dimming "feature". That is no "artifact". That's not even a good excuse because anyone that looks at the iron ion images from SDO will see it's not true.
 
Michael Mozina said:
I dare each and every one of you to come up with a published SDO or Trace Limb image that doesn't show that same limb dimming "feature".
Click to expand...

We'll have to start by you explaining exactly what YOU mean by "limb dimming feature".
 
Michael Mozina said:
Do the RD test I just mentioned. FYI, that "artifact" exists in every SDO and TRACE limb image.
Click to expand...


No, it simply does not. You have already been shown a second version of that PR image from the SDO first-light material which does not show that green border. When the color layers are separated out of the images there is no such border. In fact in the color separations, there is an artifact which is entirely consistent with JPG compression of a circular gradient filter placed over the image. Several other pieces of SDO PR data have been published, almost none of which show the same kind of alignment error which created that green line.

Having some expertise in image processing, and having discussed the matter directly with the SDO team at NASA, I can tell you that your argument here is an argument from incredulity and ignorance, and is flat out unsupported, unsubstantiated rubbish. For you to claim otherwise would be a lie.
 
Michael Mozina said:
Baloney! That limb dimming "feature" exist in *EVERY* iron ion wavelength. Find me one SDO image that doesn't have that "artifact"? That is *NOT* an artifact.
Click to expand...


The science team for the SDO project at NASA says it is. So it's the people who designed the equipment, launched the satellite, operate the equipment, acquire the data, process the data, and analyze the data, a group made up of hundreds of highly educated astrophysicists including several who hold doctorate degrees, who say it is a processing artifact. And there's you, Michael, the lone voice of disagreement. And it's been shown beyond the doubt of anyone in this conversation that you simply are not qualified to understand solar imagery of any kind.

You are wrong. Sorry. It's an artifact. No matter how loud you shout and how long you thrown the tantrum, it's an artifact.

Oh, and you cannot see through 80,000 kilometers of plasma, so artifact or not, your argument is laughably ridiculous.
 
Michael Mozina said:
Nobody on Earth deserves this sort of treatment.
Click to expand...

Oh, please. Quit the drama queen act. This is a message board. Nothing I can say is actually capable of harming you.

The only "problems" I've ignored are the the problems you percieve based on your own theories, not mine.
Click to expand...

Which is basically an admission that you don't believe your theory has to conform to thermodynamics, gravity, or basic material property constraints.

Boloney. I gave you a quantified number on that disk size.
Click to expand...

And you've avoided giving me numbers on your cathode refrigeration model, the interior pressure or temperature of the sun, the gravitational self-attraction of a water bubble which you consider equivalent to your model, etc. All of which I asked for quite some time ago.

And you guys want to have a civil dialog?
Click to expand...

This ceased being a dialogue long ago, Michael, when you made it clear you had no interest in actually learning anything which might dispel any of your vast ignorance.
 
Ziggurat said:
[...]
Michael Mozina said:
The only "problems" I've ignored are the the problems you percieve based on your own theories, not mine.
Click to expand...

Which is basically an admission that you don't believe your theory has to conform to thermodynamics, gravity, or basic material property constraints.

[...]
Click to expand...
And then some; for example: conservation of energy, conservation of charge, Maxwell's equations, atomic physics, ... even the basic geometry first (?) written up by some ancient Greeks.
 
GeeMack said:
Word salad. What disk?
Click to expand...

What disk? From SDO's perspective the sun is a giant "disk" in the sky. That disk! This disk in a long cadence RD image:

20050527-1913.JPG


What chromosphere?
Click to expand...

sd01.jpg


The red/orange flaming ring is the chromosphere in SDO.

What do you mean by "on" and "inside"?
Click to expand...

The limb darkening is *INSIDE* of the chromosphere. Likewise the RD image will reside *INSIDE* of that chromosphere. If we were to look at a full disk image, it will show up inside that red/orange region with 4800KM to spare. It will be physically and directly related to that limb darkening region.

Let's recap for the newbies now. You have a green "opaque" math bunny problem in the SDO images. If I had access to the FITS files, I would/could turn off the blue iron line in the original release image and demonstrate to you that you have a yellow math bunny problem. I'd then turn the blue line back on and demonstrate your bunny turns green again. I would then turn off the yellow line and turn your bunny blue. I would then turn the yellow line into a red line and make your bunny glow a pretty purple. Alas I can't play with your color bunnies because I can't access the FITS files yet.

The more "decisive' way to demonstrate this point is with the RD images. If the SSM is correct, all those iron line emissions *MUST* start above the chromosphere ring, and the RD image outline should end up right along that red orange ring. If however the iron emissions start at the limb darkened region as I believe they do, then the RD image will show a disk that fits nicely inside that red/orange ring with 4800 KM to spare.

There are technically two different RD techniques we might use. We could use a longer cadence version to find the edge of the disk to see if aligns itself with the chromosphere or the limb darkened region. The second and "better" way to go about it IMO would be to round up the higher cadence/averaged RD process that created this image:

171surfaceshotsmall.JPG


Apply that process to the 171A channel of SDO. Then lay that chromosphere on top of that image. That will/would be one of *THE* most spectacular images of the sun for all time IMO. It will also demonstrate that the iron line emissions originate in the limb darkened areas, not at the chromosphere boundary. Of course those green bunny problems should have already told you all of this, but then denial seems to be the name of the game around here. "What disk"? :)
 
Last edited:
Michael Mozina said:
Let's recap for the newbies now. You have a green "opaque" math bunny problem in the SDO images. If I had access to the FITS files, I would/could turn off the blue iron line in the original release image and demonstrate to you that you have a yellow math bunny problem. I'd then turn the blue line back on and demonstrate your bunny turns green again. I would then turn off the yellow line and turn your bunny blue. I would then turn the yellow line into a red line and make your bunny glow a pretty purple. Alas I can't play with your color bunnies because I can't access the FITS files yet.
Click to expand...

That makes everything very clear for any newbies that happen to read it. But I'm not sure the message they'll get is quite the one you intended to communicate, Michael.
 
Taking up an idea someone made, earlier in this thread (accurate attribution welcome): if I, or someone else, could find a sequence of images of Jupiter, or Saturn, could GM (or anyone else!) produce an RD movie from them? And from that movie, could one image be colourised using a scheme similar to the one used in his 'rugged mountains on the Sun' fave?

Jupiter has, of course, many persistent features, some more or less stable over several centuries (e.g. the Great Red Spot). When Shoemaker-Levy 9 hit it, there were many features which persisted, with changes, over several Jovian days. I for one would be curious to know what a suitably colourised RD movie of Jupiter would look like.
 
Michael Mozina said:
And you guys want to have a civil dialog?
Click to expand...

Let’s dialogue about the word dialogue …

A dialogue is not a situation where posters all bow down and just accept what you say as the truth.

A dialogue is a two way street. And in this case that includes YOU addressing the valid concerns that others have expressed with your idea. Namely,

• An iron shell for the sun violates the laws of thermodynamics. If you want a dialogue in this forum, please address this issue …

• It has been shown by a particular poster that the sun’s photosphere is opaque after a few meters is you assume anything resembling the composition of the sun in the SSM. You claim that you can see thru 1000’s of km’s of the photosphere because the sun’s composition is actually a heretofore unheard of composition (referred to as moplasma). You’ve been asked to provide this composition so that the opacity of moplasma can be estimated. You’ve not provided this composition and run away from the issue. If you want a dialogue in this forum, please address this issue …

I could go on, but this is a good place for you to start doing your share of dialoguing …
 
DeiRenDopa said:
Taking up an idea someone made, earlier in this thread (accurate attribution welcome): if I, or someone else, could find a sequence of images of Jupiter, or Saturn, could GM (or anyone else!) produce an RD movie from them?
<snip>
Jupiter has, of course, many persistent features, some more or less stable over several centuries (e.g. the Great Red Spot).
Click to expand...

In the interest of feeding my ego, I'll assume that it was me: Post 404
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom