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Tags George W. Bush , Iraq incidents , Iraq politics , Muntazer al-Zaidi , thrown object incidents

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Old 12th January 2009, 05:35 PM   #361
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Originally Posted by Skeptic View Post
Well, Parky, for starters:

1). You don't think Israel has no right to exist or to defend itself, even if we may disagree on some, or even many, of Israel's policies.

2). Nor are you a lying hypocrite who claims to care about human rights... but in reality cares about human rights only when you can blame Israel for violating them.

3). Nor do you think everything Israel does is automatically wrong, or that everything the Palestinians or the Arabs or Muslims in general do is a "reaction to the occupation", and whose "root cause" is the existence of Israel.

A few minor differences, here, between you and certain other posters who criticize Israel. For those posters, their real beef with Israel, despite their unconvincing protestations to the contrary, is its very existence as a Jewish state. You, whatever our disagreements about specific Israeli policies, do not think that.

I like the way, incidentally, that these folks think that wanting the Jewish state dismantled, and that the Jewish state--alone of all the nations in the world, of course--is illegitimate and has no right to exist, is NOT antisemitism, but "only anti-Zionism". That's about as logical as saying, "I don't hate all Black people, only those who don't know their place should be lynched."
Your post is so transparent. Where you go wrong and where you expose yourself is that you ALWAYS try to make the Zionist/Israel issue a Jewish Issue so you can spew up the tired old cry of Anti-Semite!!

But where you seem totally blind is that Zionists created Israel on land owned by others and turfed them off. Israel has since embarked upon a systematic racial persecution of the Palestinians, ghettoization of the Palestinians for the last 60 years.

I suppose you think all that behavior is OK don't you? So in your eyes the only reason people could be criticizing Israel is because it's population is mainly Jews.

You also have a chip on your shoulder about the world hating Jews. Just because christianity has been generally anti-semitic over the last 2,000 years don't blame the rest of us.

You need to start appreciating that the vast majority of people's criticisms of Israel have nothing to do anyone being Jewish. Who cares what race you are? What does it matter? Get over yourself
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Old 30th January 2009, 04:29 AM   #362
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CNN: Iraqis build Bush shoe-throwing monument
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Old 30th January 2009, 07:48 AM   #363
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Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
Yes, it's very nice.
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Old 30th January 2009, 09:20 AM   #364
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Isn't that a coincidence? The monument of Muntadhir al-Zaidi's shoe found a home in the region of Tikrit, Saddams's birth place. Laith al-Amiri is rumored to be working on a giant Odor-Eaters Insole sculpture so the shoe will not offend the orphans.
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Old 30th January 2009, 11:26 AM   #365
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The monumnet lasted 1 day. Ah well, maybe Laith al-Amiri will have better luck with a giant Birkenstock.

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/me...shoe.monument/
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Old 30th January 2009, 02:29 PM   #366
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Originally Posted by Cicero View Post
The monumnet lasted 1 day. Ah well, maybe Laith al-Amiri will have better luck with a giant Birkenstock.

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/me...shoe.monument/
Well at least it further shows how the Current Iraqi Government is invader friendly. Democracy in Iraq is currently... You can vote for anything as long as it's ratified by the Americans

I think the magnificent shoe statue should be erected in front of the Whitehouse to show Americans not to forget the dangers of a rotten presidency.
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Old 30th January 2009, 06:54 PM   #367
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Originally Posted by Tin Foil Timothy View Post
Well at least it further shows how the Current Iraqi Government is invader friendly. Democracy in Iraq is currently... You can vote for anything as long as it's ratified by the Americans

I think the magnificent shoe statue should be erected in front of the Whitehouse to show Americans not to forget the dangers of a rotten presidency.

"We will not allow anyone to use the government facilities and buildings for political motives," said Abdullah Jabara, Salaheddin deputy governor."

It seems Iraq follows the same guidelines as the U.S. does about using government property to erect personal political statements.

We already have a monument 1/4 mile from The White House that reminds Americans of the dangers of 3 rotten Presidents; The Vietnam Memorial
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Old 5th February 2009, 04:29 AM   #368
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Bumped because "Skeptic" is once more talking about "absurd conspiracy theories about Bush".
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Old 5th February 2009, 06:17 AM   #369
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Originally Posted by Dr Adequate View Post
My Orwell quote was not aimed at Bush et al, but at Skeptic, when he claimed that WMDs were never offered as the main reason for invading Iraq. This is a blatant rewriting of history. This is indeed on a par with Stalin airbrushing Trotsky out of photographs and with the Orwellian statement that "We have always been at war with Eastasia."
But there never were any WMDs, ergo, Bush never talked about WMDs!

Simple, eh?

Why do you have to make this so complicated?!
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Old 5th February 2009, 06:40 AM   #370
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Originally Posted by Cicero View Post
The monumnet lasted 1 day. Ah well, maybe Laith al-Amiri will have better luck with a giant Birkenstock.

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/me...shoe.monument/
From the linked article:

Quote:
"We will not allow anyone to use the government facilities and buildings for political motives," said Abdullah Jabara, Salaheddin deputy governor.
I think we can point to at least one way in which Iraqi governance is more mature than American. Wouldn't it be great if the no one were allowed to use the U.S. Capitol and the White House for "political motives"?
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Old 12th March 2009, 08:18 AM   #371
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Muntadhar al-Zeidi gets three years (the minimum sentence) in prison for hurling Florsheim's at Bush.

"I have great faith in the Iraqi judiciary. It is a judiciary that is both just and has integrity," al-Zeidi responded."

Munt must have a lot of confidence in the Iraqi appellate court.

Amazing how much sympathy this guy gets from American "journalists." Lourdes Garcia-Navarro and Steve Inskeep never once mentioned that Munt was a Saddam supporter and that the shoe monument, that lasted 1 day, was erected in Saddam's home of Tikrit.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...24&ft=1&f=1004
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Old 12th March 2009, 02:37 PM   #372
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Guy gets 3 years for throwing a couple of shoes in the direction of Bush and misses.

Bush is responsible for the deaths of a million and gets a fat pension and a place in his retirement home to stand that botox mannequin called Laura.

There's no justice.
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Old 12th March 2009, 02:44 PM   #373
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Originally Posted by Tin Foil Timothy View Post
Guy gets 3 years for throwing a couple of shoes in the direction of Bush and misses.

Bush is responsible for the deaths of a million and gets a fat pension and a place in his retirement home to stand that botox mannequin called Laura.

There's no justice.
And you're still in Mom's basement.

I blame the Jooos for that.

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Old 12th March 2009, 03:21 PM   #374
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
And you're still in Mom's basement.

I blame the Jooos for that.
The irony. such a childish personal attack.
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Old 12th March 2009, 03:45 PM   #375
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Apparently "assault on foreign leader" is significantly different to just "assault" and carries a minimum sentence of 3 years.

This case appears to have been tried entirely by the book, so no issues with it. I personally think the sentencing limits are a bit harsh, but it's not my country.
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Old 12th March 2009, 04:09 PM   #376
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Originally Posted by Tin Foil Timothy View Post
Guy gets 3 years for throwing a couple of shoes in the direction of Bush and misses.

Bush is responsible for the deaths of a million and gets a fat pension and a place in his retirement home to stand that botox mannequin called Laura.

There's no justice.
I wonder why Munt has more faith in the Iraqi criminal justice system than you do?

After Nancy Pelosi's treatments, even Joan Rivers would have to scramble to find any BOTOX®
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Old 12th March 2009, 04:12 PM   #377
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Originally Posted by gumboot View Post
Apparently "assault on foreign leader" is significantly different to just "assault" and carries a minimum sentence of 3 years.

This case appears to have been tried entirely by the book, so no issues with it. I personally think the sentencing limits are a bit harsh, but it's not my country.
"Squeaky" Fromme drew an empty chamber Colt .45 Government Automatic on Ford when he reached to shake her hand in a crowd. She was sentenced to life in prison. If she threw her pumps at Ford, do you think she would have gotten probation?
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Old 12th March 2009, 04:40 PM   #378
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Originally Posted by Cicero View Post
"Squeaky" Fromme drew an empty chamber Colt .45 Government Automatic on Ford when he reached to shake her hand in a crowd. She was sentenced to life in prison. If she threw her pumps at Ford, do you think she would have gotten probation?
You're being a bit dishonest there. The pistol's chamber was empty but the magazine had four rounds in it, and she was convicted of attempted assassination not assault.

I don't think she would have been convicted of attempted assassination if she'd thrown shoes at him.

In addition she directed her actions against her own head of state, not a foreign visiting head of state.

Assault isn't even a federal crime in the USA, so had Fromme thrown a shoe at someone and missed it would have been simple Assault under California law, which has a maximum sentence of $1000 fine or 6 months in jail.

Even if she had hit him it would only add an additional maximum of $2000 fine or 6 months in prison.
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Old 12th March 2009, 04:42 PM   #379
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Originally Posted by Cicero View Post
I wonder why Munt has more faith in the Iraqi criminal justice system than you do?
Errrrrr, it's not the Iraqi criminal justice system that's the problem is it? Bush is the one that got off

Quote:
After Nancy Pelosi's treatments, even Joan Rivers would have to scramble to find any BOTOX®
You ain't kidding.
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Old 12th March 2009, 05:24 PM   #380
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Originally Posted by gumboot View Post
You're being a bit dishonest there. The pistol's chamber was empty but the magazine had four rounds in it, and she was convicted of attempted assassination not assault.

I don't think she would have been convicted of attempted assassination if she'd thrown shoes at him.

In addition she directed her actions against her own head of state, not a foreign visiting head of state.

Assault isn't even a federal crime in the USA, so had Fromme thrown a shoe at someone and missed it would have been simple Assault under California law, which has a maximum sentence of $1000 fine or 6 months in jail.

Even if she had hit him it would only add an additional maximum of $2000 fine or 6 months in prison.
She would have been convicted of attempted assassination if she struck Ford in the head with spiked heels. Since the .45's chamber was empty, it was not about the lethality of the weapon, since Fromme didn't squeeze the trigger, rather it was the perceived threat of imminent danger to the President that got her what she wanted, life in prison.

If Fromme had drawn an automatic with an empty chamber on a civilian, she would not get life in prison. Had she done the same thing to a visiting head of state, I doubt she would be given a slap on the wrist.

Even in your own scenario, Munt would get at least a year in the slammer if this happened in the U.S. and Bush was just another civilian, and hadn't ducked.

What do you suppose would be the penalty for Munt had he done the same thing to Talibani? More time, less time?
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Old 12th March 2009, 05:40 PM   #381
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Originally Posted by Cicero View Post
She would have been convicted of attempted assassination if she struck Ford in the head with spiked heels.
Evidence?


Originally Posted by Cicero View Post
Since the .45's chamber was empty, it was not about the lethality of the weapon, since Fromme didn't squeeze the trigger, rather it was the perceived threat of imminent danger to the President that got her what she wanted, life in prison.
This is false. The weapon was a deadly weapon, with ammunition in the magazine. Had she pulled the trigger a couple of times, she would have killed him. The prosecution case was that the USSS prevented her doing this.


Originally Posted by Cicero View Post
If Fromme had drawn an automatic with an empty chamber on a civilian, she would not get life in prison. Had she done the same thing to a visiting head of state, I doubt she would be given a slap on the wrist.
Attempted murder or assault with a deadly weapon, depending on if the prosecution could successfully argue she had intended to shoot.


Originally Posted by Cicero View Post
Even in your own scenario, Munt would get at least a year in the slammer if this happened in the U.S. and Bush was just another civilian, and hadn't ducked.
No. In California he would have received a maximum sentence of 1 year in prison (probably not actually, because both sentences would probably be served at the same time).

Originally Posted by Cicero View Post
What do you suppose would be the penalty for Munt had he done the same thing to Talibani? More time, less time?
And the relevance? The sentence is fair because it's less harsh than probably the most ruthless regime to exist in the last decade? Seriously?

Next time anyone complains about a harsh sentence I'll be sure to point out that by Roman standards they got off lightly...
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Old 12th March 2009, 05:50 PM   #382
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gumboot View Post
Evidence?




This is false. The weapon was a deadly weapon, with ammunition in the magazine. Had she pulled the trigger a couple of times, she would have killed him. The prosecution case was that the USSS prevented her doing this.
She could have cocked and pulled the trigger a 1000 times and nothing would have happened. This is not a revolver, or even a double action automatic, it was a Colt .45 automatic. She would have had to pull the slide back to chamber a round.

Quote:
Attempted murder or assault with a deadly weapon, depending on if the prosecution could successfully argue she had intended to shoot.
Had it not been the President, it would have been an ADW charge.

Quote:
No. In California he would have received a maximum sentence of 1 year in prison (probably not actually, because both sentences would probably be served at the same time).
Evidence that the sentence would be served concurrently and not consecutively? Had an American citizen done the same thing to a visiting head of state, it would be a federal crime and not tried in a California state court.


Quote:
And the relevance? The sentence is fair because it's less harsh than probably the most ruthless regime to exist in the last decade? Seriously?

Next time anyone complains about a harsh sentence I'll be sure to point out that by Roman standards they got off lightly...
Ruthless regiem? President Talibani is now more ruthless than Saddam? OK

Again, explain how three years is a harsh sentence in Iraq when the maximum was 15 under Iraqi law?

Last edited by Cicero; 12th March 2009 at 06:07 PM.
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Old 12th March 2009, 06:15 PM   #383
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Originally Posted by Cicero View Post
Ruthless regiem? President Talibani is now more ruthless than Saddam? OK
Oops, for some reason I thought you were talking about the Taliban...

I don't know if Iraq has special rules for crimes committed against the President.


Originally Posted by Cicero View Post
Again, explain how three years is a harsh sentence in Iraq when the maximum was 15 under Iraqi law?
I didn't say it was a harsh sentence in Iraq. In fact I thought I made it pretty clear I thought the trial was completely reasonable and fair, in keeping with Iraqi law. I merely said that I felt the Iraqi sentencing limits (3 - 15yrs) were a bit harsh.

I cite the example of California which has substantially lighter sentences for the same crime.
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Old 12th March 2009, 06:23 PM   #384
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Originally Posted by gumboot View Post
Oops, for some reason I thought you were talking about the Taliban...

I don't know if Iraq has special rules for crimes committed against the President.




I didn't say it was a harsh sentence in Iraq. In fact I thought I made it pretty clear I thought the trial was completely reasonable and fair, in keeping with Iraqi law. I merely said that I felt the Iraqi sentencing limits (3 - 15yrs) were a bit harsh.

I cite the example of California which has substantially lighter sentences for the same crime.
Considering how difficult it is for a California jury to convict any high profile defendant, maybe that state's sentencing isn't the best example of American jurisprudence.
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Old 12th March 2009, 09:44 PM   #385
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Originally Posted by Cicero View Post
Considering how difficult it is for a California jury to convict any high profile defendant, maybe that state's sentencing isn't the best example of American jurisprudence.
Even though Bush made it clear that it was no big deal to him, what this guy did is an unforgivable violation of "hospitality" in the Arab world be it Iraq or Saudi Arabia. Had he thrown the shoes at Talibani he would have probably been beaten senseless and let go.
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Old 12th March 2009, 09:58 PM   #386
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Originally Posted by Texas View Post
Even though Bush made it clear that it was no big deal to him, what this guy did is an unforgivable violation of "hospitality" in the Arab world be it Iraq or Saudi Arabia. Had he thrown the shoes at Talibani he would have probably been beaten senseless and let go.
I think the shoe thrower guy is excellent!!!. I'm just sorry he missed Bush. I would have laughed my ass off had he broke Bush's nose with one of those shoes.

Considering the deaths and misery Bush has been a large part of causing I think he would have gotten off very lightly. Bush shoulda been in Guantanamo for a few years having constant Eminem played at full volume for 24-7 and a spot of occasional waterboarding.
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Old 13th March 2009, 08:33 AM   #387
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Originally Posted by Tin Foil Timothy View Post
I think the shoe thrower guy is excellent!!!. I'm just sorry he missed Bush. I would have laughed my ass off had he broke Bush's nose with one of those shoes.

Considering the deaths and misery Bush has been a large part of causing I think he would have gotten off very lightly. Bush shoulda been in Guantanamo for a few years having constant Eminem played at full volume for 24-7 and a spot of occasional waterboarding.
If Bush invaded Israel and brought death, destruction and misery to that country, I bet you would be outraged at any Israelis who even threw a matza ball at him.
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Old 7th April 2009, 10:15 AM   #388
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Munt's sentence reduced from 3 years to 1 year. Even gets credit for time served before his conviction.

"We welcome this fair decision that shows the independence and the integrity of the Iraqi judiciary system," said another al-Zeidi's attorney, Yahya al-Ittabi.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/04072009...nce_163339.htm
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Old 7th April 2009, 10:19 AM   #389
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Munt's sentence reduced from 3 years to 1 year. Even gets credit for time served before his conviction.
Sounds fine to me.

It is obviusly a PR-stunt from the Iraki DOJ
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Old 16th September 2009, 06:18 PM   #390
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Muntadhar al-Zeidi the Al-Baghdadiya reality TV star.

Iraqi shoe thrower released; says he was tortured


"Some Iraqis said fear of a repeat of recent massive bombings in Baghdad, a crackdown by security forces or the fatigue caused by the dawn-to-dusk fast during the current Muslim month of Ramadan kept them from celebrating al-Zeidi’s release."

Or

"But nine months later, there was little public outpouring of support for him, a sign of how things have changed."



"That he was jailed and released testifies that we have a democracy in Iraq and that America does not control Iraq,” said Haidar Jabar, a mini-market owner from southwest Baghdad."


I wonder if Munt shares Jabar's sentiments?

http://www.japantoday.com/category/w...e-was-tortured
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Old 18th September 2009, 03:45 AM   #391
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Hee hee - the murderer Bush got shoed.
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Old 18th September 2009, 05:11 AM   #392
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Well, it's good thing that that million+ of Iraqis died so their compatriots could at least be free from tortu- oh ****
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Old 23rd May 2010, 04:59 PM   #393
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'TRNN Exclusive: The man that "shoed" Bush'

Interview with Muntadhar Al-Zaidi

http://www.therealnews.com/t2/index....74&jumival=560
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