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Tags Dave Thomas , Michael Fullerton , wtc 7

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Old 27th September 2010, 12:47 PM   #1
cmatrix
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Open Letter to Dave Thomas

Dr. Thomas I would like to invite you to discuss the WTC 7 collapse physics here, preferably in a competently and fairly moderated thread. I noticed on your recent Coast To Coast interview that you did not have the opportunity to explain the 2.25 second free fall period of WTC 7. This would be an ideal place to discuss this significant and disturbing problem.

To all other JREFers: Please be respectful of the distinguished Dr. Thomas and kindly refrain from the sophomoric attacks and other flawed logic that often passes for intelligent debate here.
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Old 27th September 2010, 12:49 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by cmatrix View Post
To all other JREFers: Please be respectful of the distinguished Dr. Thomas and kindly refrain from the sophomoric attacks and other flawed logic that often passes for intelligent debate here.
In that case, you should moderate, you're well versed in sophomoric attacks and flawed logic.
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Old 27th September 2010, 12:51 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by cmatrix View Post
Dr. Thomas I would like to invite you to discuss the WTC 7 collapse physics here, preferably in a competently and fairly moderated thread. I noticed on your recent Coast To Coast interview that you did not have the opportunity to explain the 2.25 second free fall period of WTC 7. This would be an ideal place to discuss this significant and disturbing problem.

To all other JREFers: Please be respectful of the distinguished Dr. Thomas and kindly refrain from the sophomoric attacks and other flawed logic that often passes for intelligent debate here.
I can respect that...can you? You should contact David by PM requesting such, and then when you have agreed, ask a moderator to keep it free of comments except from the two of you. We usually set up a seperate thread to discuss the moderated thread when this is the case.


TAM
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Old 27th September 2010, 01:28 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by T.A.M. View Post
I can respect that...can you? You should contact David by PM requesting such, and then when you have agreed, ask a moderator to keep it free of comments except from the two of you. We usually set up a seperate thread to discuss the moderated thread when this is the case.


TAM
The moderators have never setup such a thread for me before so why should I expect them to do it now? I have PM'd Dr. Thomas and hopefully he can get things rolling.

I do not seek to limit others from contributing (unless Dr. Thomas so wishes). I seek competent and fair moderation: attacks (personal or impersonal) and off-topic misdirection should not be allowed from anyone (except from Dr. Thomas if he so desires); simply reporting abuses should not be grounds for banishment.

I promise to be 100% respectful under these conditions.
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Old 27th September 2010, 01:34 PM   #5
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1. Have you requested they do so, and if so, did they give reasons for their refusal?
2. I suggest that you request others do not participate, as it keeps the noise down significantly...however, a moderated thread can do this for the most part as well, as they will not allow unrelated or insulting/snarky posts to be added to the thread.

TAM
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Old 27th September 2010, 01:56 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by cmatrix View Post
Dr. Thomas I would like to invite you to discuss the WTC 7 collapse physics here, preferably in a competently and fairly moderated thread. I noticed on your recent Coast To Coast interview that you did not have the opportunity to explain the 2.25 second free fall period of WTC 7. This would be an ideal place to discuss this significant and disturbing problem.

To all other JREFers: Please be respectful of the distinguished Dr. Thomas and kindly refrain from the sophomoric attacks and other flawed logic that often passes for intelligent debate here.
Are you going to pay him the money you promised after he mops the floor with you?

And if you are so confident that you have information on the murders of 24 Canadians, then why are you picking fits with it on some little-known internet forum instead of taking it to the RCMP?
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Old 27th September 2010, 02:02 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by cmatrix View Post
To all other JREFers: Please be respectful of the distinguished Dr. Thomas and kindly refrain from the sophomoric attacks and other flawed logic that often passes for intelligent debate here.
No. I will treat Dr. Thomas like any other truther.

With disdain, disgust, disrespect, disobedience, and disorder.

Basically, I will dis him.
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Old 27th September 2010, 02:04 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by cmatrix View Post
I seek competent and fair moderation: attacks (personal or impersonal) and off-topic misdirection should not be allowed from anyone (except from Dr. Thomas if he so desires);
why would you tolerate personal attacks, impersonal attacks, and off-topic misdirection from Dr. Thomas?

is he a God?
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Old 27th September 2010, 02:05 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
No. I will treat Dr. Thomas like any other truther.

With disdain, disgust, disrespect, disobedience, and disorder.

Basically, I will dis him.
I think Dr. Thomas is a debunker.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...er.php?u=39130

TAM
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Old 27th September 2010, 02:10 PM   #10
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whoosh
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Old 27th September 2010, 02:13 PM   #11
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well, if he is a debunker, then I shall treat him with the utmost respect.

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Old 27th September 2010, 02:57 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by cmatrix View Post
To all other JREFers: Please be respectful of the distinguished Dr. Thomas and kindly refrain from the sophomoric attacks and other flawed logic that often passes for intelligent debate here.
I conditionally agree; if you stop attaching reverential titles to human beings. Oh, and I'm not going to let this sophomoric statement of yours pass for intellectual debate.

Last edited by Mince; 27th September 2010 at 03:11 PM.
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Old 27th September 2010, 03:00 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by cmatrix View Post
To all other JREFers: Please be respectful of the distinguished Dr. Thomas and kindly refrain from the sophomoric attacks and other flawed logic that often passes for intelligent debate here.
We will... if you stop threatening to kill people.
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Old 27th September 2010, 03:01 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by cmatrix View Post
The moderators have never setup such a thread for me before so why should I expect them to do it now? I have PM'd Dr. Thomas and hopefully he can get things rolling.

I do not seek to limit others from contributing (unless Dr. Thomas so wishes). I seek competent and fair moderation: attacks (personal or impersonal) and off-topic misdirection should not be allowed from anyone (except from Dr. Thomas if he so desires); simply reporting abuses should not be grounds for banishment.

I promise to be 100% respectful under these conditions.
This sounds like cult of personality.
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Old 27th September 2010, 03:04 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Sword_Of_Truth View Post
We will... if you stop threatening to kill people.
source please.

...source found.

Last edited by Thunder; 27th September 2010 at 03:17 PM.
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Old 27th September 2010, 03:04 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by cmatrix View Post
Dr. Thomas I would like to invite you to discuss the WTC 7 collapse physics here, preferably in a competently and fairly moderated thread. I noticed on your recent Coast To Coast interview that you did not have the opportunity to explain the 2.25 second free fall period of WTC 7. This would be an ideal place to discuss this significant and disturbing problem.

To all other JREFers: Please be respectful of the distinguished Dr. Thomas and kindly refrain from the sophomoric attacks and other flawed logic that often passes for intelligent debate here.
You have to love how this guy repeatedly now has started threads in which he takes insulting direct shots at the entire forum here in the OP, while acting like he is asking everyone else to remain civil and not throw any shots back...

But we are the ones trying to pass off sophmoric attacks and other flawed logic as intelligent debate around here... Ya right...

The arrogance of these kooks is barely tolerable...
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Old 27th September 2010, 03:13 PM   #17
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Old 27th September 2010, 03:35 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by cmatrix View Post
Dr. Thomas I would like to invite you to discuss the WTC 7 collapse physics here, preferably in a competently and fairly moderated thread. I noticed on your recent Coast To Coast interview that you did not have the opportunity to explain the 2.25 second free fall period of WTC 7. This would be an ideal place to discuss this significant and disturbing problem.

To all other JREFers: Please be respectful of the distinguished Dr. Thomas and kindly refrain from the sophomoric attacks and other flawed logic that often passes for intelligent debate here.
Is that your "open letter"? Really? No explanation of your data and a well sourced theory?


Do you really wonder why no one takes you seriously?

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Old 27th September 2010, 04:13 PM   #19
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Sorry, everytime I read this thread's name I think it's about the Wendy's Dave Thomas.
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Old 27th September 2010, 04:32 PM   #20
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While you're writing open letters to challenge people to debates on physics, perhaps you should mention that you've already refused to prove you know even the most basic things about physics.
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Old 27th September 2010, 04:54 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by TShaitanaku View Post
Sorry, everytime I read this thread's name I think it's about the Wendy's Dave Thomas.
Dave Thomas: Sane hamburger...



Truthers: Not so same hamburger...



</hamburger thread>
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Old 27th September 2010, 05:54 PM   #22
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3 questions regarding the debate:

1. IIRC, TFK and yourself was close to at least the beginning of a discussion and you stopped posting. Why do you choose to debate Mr. Thomas now?

2. When Mr. Thomas wins the debate, will you be paying him the $5,000 he will be eligible to recieve?

http://vernon911truth.org/wtc7challenge.html

3. If #2 is yes, then who will be the arbitrator and will you be providing proof that the money is held in an escrow account by a completely neutral party?

TIA.

Last edited by AJM8125; 27th September 2010 at 07:36 PM.
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Old 28th September 2010, 01:58 AM   #23
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Just out of interest, given that the 2.25 seconds of near-freefall has already been explained, why does it have to be Dave Thomas specifically who repeats the explanation? Is it only true if the right person says it?

Dave
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Tony Szamboti: That is right
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Old 28th September 2010, 02:22 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by AJM8125 View Post
...
2. When Mr. Thomas wins the debate, will you be paying him the $5,000 he will be eligible to recieve?

http://vernon911truth.org/wtc7challenge.html

3. If #2 is yes, then who will be the arbitrator and will you be providing proof that the money is held in an escrow account by a completely neutral party?

TIA.
That challenge cannot possibly be met:

Quote:
Applicants must explain how normal office fires caused 8 stories or about 100 feet of structure including the 58 perimeter columns and 25 massive core columns of WTC 7 to be effectively removed simultaneously floor by floor so that the building was able to free fall straight down symmetrically for at least 2.25 seconds.
The event this person wants to have explained is not the "official" theory and not what NIST described, and of course also not what happened in reality.
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Old 28th September 2010, 02:50 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
That challenge cannot possibly be met:
The event this person wants to have explained is not the "official" theory and not what NIST described, and of course also not what happened in reality.


Ah.....the old classic strawman.


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Old 28th September 2010, 04:28 AM   #26
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That is the key to setting up a challenge you have no intention (and not likely the resources) to fund...make it unwinnable.

TAM
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Old 28th September 2010, 04:44 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Just out of interest, given that the 2.25 seconds of near-freefall has already been explained, why does it have to be Dave Thomas specifically who repeats the explanation? Is it only true if the right person says it?

Dave
Apparently, and it's not only who says it, it's also where it's said.
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Old 28th September 2010, 04:54 AM   #28
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Everything has been said, but not yet by everyone
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Old 28th September 2010, 07:38 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Everything has been said, but not yet by everyone
I finally caught word of this via cmatrix PM.

Upon reading his challenge, and the other posts mentioned here, I see so purpose to debating WT7's brief freefall episode here.

Cmatrix, I suggest you do like Richard Gage. When he wanted all the debunkers to debate at the press club, and all refused, he just went ahead and debated our soundbites from previous encounters.

So, why not scour some old threads for my comments on WTC7, and debate those? You'll find more than a few on this 40-page-long thread. It was basically hashed to death there.

I have also posted some musings on WTC7 in general here. Feel free to debate any of these comments also.

But while you're there, check out my other articles, most having to do with the Twin Towers, here.

And now, I've scripts to code, and homework papers to grade.

Have a safe and happy debate! TTFN, Dave
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Old 28th September 2010, 11:15 PM   #30
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Bump.
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Old 29th September 2010, 04:03 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by DaveThomasNMSR View Post
I finally caught word of this via cmatrix PM.

Upon reading his challenge, and the other posts mentioned here, I see so purpose to debating WT7's brief freefall episode here.

Cmatrix, I suggest you do like Richard Gage. When he wanted all the debunkers to debate at the press club, and all refused, he just went ahead and debated our soundbites from previous encounters.

So, why not scour some old threads for my comments on WTC7, and debate those? You'll find more than a few on this 40-page-long thread. It was basically hashed to death there.

I have also posted some musings on WTC7 in general here. Feel free to debate any of these comments also.

But while you're there, check out my other articles, most having to do with the Twin Towers, here.

And now, I've scripts to code, and homework papers to grade.

Have a safe and happy debate! TTFN, Dave
Nice try Dave. We all know you have never ever attempted to deal with the WTC 7 2.25 seconds free fall period because you can't. It is simply not possible to conform with both the official crackpot 9/11 theory and the laws of physics. You know that, at least unconsciously. You see no purpose in debating not because it's irrelevant or that it's been done before but because you simply can't win. Your position is one of faith not science and most certainly not skepticism.
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Old 29th September 2010, 04:25 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by cmatrix View Post
Nice try Dave. We all know you have never ever attempted to deal with the WTC 7 2.25 seconds free fall period because you can't.
Multi-storey buckle.

Next truther, please.

Dave
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Me: So what you're saying is that, if the load carrying ability of the lower structure is reduced to the point where it can no longer support the load above it, it will collapse without a jolt, right?

Tony Szamboti: That is right
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Old 29th September 2010, 05:53 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Multi-storey buckle.

Next truther, please.

Dave
Mr. Fullerton, you owe Mr. Rogers $5,000. Please include payment arrangements in your next post. Thank you.
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Old 29th September 2010, 07:59 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by cmatrix View Post
Nice try Dave. We all know you have never ever attempted to deal with the WTC 7 2.25 seconds free fall period because you can't. It is simply not possible to conform with both the official crackpot 9/11 theory and the laws of physics. You know that, at least unconsciously. You see no purpose in debating not because it's irrelevant or that it's been done before but because you simply can't win. Your position is one of faith not science and most certainly not skepticism.
Not like you already had your mind made up or anything.
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Old 29th September 2010, 09:07 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by cmatrix View Post
Nice try Dave. We all know you have never ever attempted to deal with the WTC 7 2.25 seconds free fall period because you can't. It is simply not possible to conform with both the official crackpot 9/11 theory and the laws of physics. You know that, at least unconsciously. You see no purpose in debating not because it's irrelevant or that it's been done before but because you simply can't win. Your position is one of faith not science and most certainly not skepticism.
Hey, here is a novel idea. If you are so smart, and are so dead set on proving NIST wrong, why don't you be the FIRST TRUTHER EVER to write it up in a paper, put your math together, and submit it to any of the RESPECTABLE journals on engineering.

I reccomend:

Journal of Structural Engineering

Journal SEI - IABSE

Advances in Structural Engineering

JOM
http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/jomhome.asp

Any of the ASCE journals.

We await your abstract.
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Old 29th September 2010, 11:55 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Sam.I.Am View Post
Dave Thomas: Sane hamburger...

http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/3...4c3a3e0b66.jpg

Truthers: Not so same hamburger...

http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/570...nnoutburge.jpg

</hamburger thread>
let's see, and a bucket of fries, and oh yeah, a diet coke!
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Old 29th September 2010, 12:03 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by cmatrix View Post
Nice try Dave. We all know you have never ever attempted to deal with the WTC 7 2.25 seconds free fall period because you can't. It is simply not possible to conform with both the official crackpot 9/11 theory and the laws of physics. You know that, at least unconsciously. You see no purpose in debating not because it's irrelevant or that it's been done before but because you simply can't win. Your position is one of faith not science and most certainly not skepticism.

Care to back this giant pile of steaming bravado up with a competent argument?



tom

PS. Why did you bolt from the "I'll bet $5,000" thread...??

Would you be willing to reinstate that wager with an unbiased, competent structural engineer as arbiter?

Last edited by tfk; 29th September 2010 at 12:04 PM.
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Old 29th September 2010, 12:37 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by tfk View Post
Care to back this giant pile of steaming bravado up with a competent argument?



tom

PS. Why did you bolt from the "I'll bet $5,000" thread...??

Would you be willing to reinstate that wager with an unbiased, competent structural engineer as arbiter?
I will back up my statements (which I have put forth and defended before until they were removed) as soon as a separate moderated thread is setup for me. Which is the whole point of this thread. Your resident physicist has declined. What does that tell you?

As for the "$5000 thread" I have no idea what you are talking about. Another limp-wristed attempt to discredit and misdirect from the main points I put forth I assume. A competently moderated thread will dispense with this typical JREF stupidity as well.
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Old 29th September 2010, 12:42 PM   #39
DGM
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Originally Posted by cmatrix View Post
What does that tell you?
That your "one trick pony" boors people.



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Old 29th September 2010, 01:49 PM   #40
bill smith
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Originally Posted by cmatrix View Post
Nice try Dave. We all know you have never ever attempted to deal with the WTC 7 2.25 seconds free fall period because you can't. It is simply not possible to conform with both the official crackpot 9/11 theory and the laws of physics. You know that, at least unconsciously. You see no purpose in debating not because it's irrelevant or that it's been done before but because you simply can't win. Your position is one of faith not science and most certainly not skepticism.

This was part of a discussion that was held on that long thread.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...&postcount=917 hyperlink

http://info-wars.org/2010/08/26/coas...d-dave-thomas/ audio 11 parts

The explanation by Dave for how the 2.25 second thing worked is from about the 5:00 minutes mark in this attached clip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V93lg0P35QE 6of11
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Last edited by bill smith; 29th September 2010 at 02:11 PM.
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