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Old 11th November 2010, 10:52 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by thecritta View Post
No timers found you say huh, why would they survive? Why would they not have been pulverised to dust along with the rest of the building contents and materials? Atleast the perps had a way that they could ensure any physical evidence of their wrong doings would be destroyed and not found later on in
the mess they generated.

Boy this is soooo complicated...

so it is planned by a known idiot, and then built by the A team in invisiblity suits...

gee, wouldn't it have been easier just to fly a jet into the building at high speed and let it burn?
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Old 11th November 2010, 10:52 AM   #42
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LOL. Love this comment from Dr Steven Jones
'The cat's-meow experiment would involve a small chip of the red/gray material found in the WTC dust, a powerful pyrotechnic, placed next to a sparkler which in turn is in contact with your thermate-cutter material. The red-chip would be ignited by sending a current through it, using a radio-receiver to receive the command, thus ignited remotely. This would also increase safety.

One could use the red-chip as an initiator all by itself if a large enough chip could be found in the WTC dust, but our findings show that this material is brittle and has been reduced to small chips (evidently from the explosive demolition process itself).'

ETA Oh no he di'int!
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Old 11th November 2010, 10:53 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
this thread is stupid.
Agreed. I think Red just didn't want to be out-dimwitted by the WTC Dust character.
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Old 11th November 2010, 10:54 AM   #44
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"No timers found you say huh, why would they survive? Why would they not have been pulverised to dust along with the rest of the building contents and materials? Atleast the perps had a way that they could ensure any physical evidence of their wrong doings would be destroyed and not found later on in
the mess they generated.

They would survive....they usually find remains of bombs timers and often use this evidence to catch the bombers. Many of the columns fell out clear off the resulting fires yet none show charges were used and none had remains of charges or timers......
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Old 11th November 2010, 10:56 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by thecritta View Post
Hold on why do people insist that there would have to be charges thermitic or
not planetd everywhere according to you guys and the OCT all you would have to do is rigg the area of the building where the plane went in about ten floors blow the charges dropping the upper section onto the lower section
And thats why even we could come up with a conspiracy theory that makes more sense.,

Instead you guys claim thermate was used in devices installed like the guy in the OP's video suggests. Jones claims also that nano thermite was painted onto steel and it becomes a high explosive but also additionally was used to set off traditional explosives like C4 and HMX. And Gage also says that they packed so much intensive explosives into the towers that it propelled steel hundreds of feet yet at the same times argues it was quiet because they used thermite (which doesnt explode, and definitely not with that intensity, but if it did would still be just as loud)

And then you have the claim that the towers had to have explosives planted at all levels as the top part cant crush the bottom part, according to truthers. That they also planted explosives in the basement for some reason and also had all these explosives going off pre-maturely all over the place while firefighters were inside, throwing people around, yet are so weak as explosives they dont cause any blast injuries to anyone at all on 911, not even ruptured ear drums. In fact they only made explosives that burned people for absolutely no reason and also create a fake jet fuel smell in order to make people think it was actually jet fuel.

If you want to come up with a more sensible demolition theory, then why do you guys still defend such preposterous nonsense from people like Gage, Jones, Chandler and so on?

Quote:
so hard after all anyway that deals with issue of idiots running everywhere through the towers planted charges and risking getting busted anyone noticing and
Sorry but even your theory requires black ops ninjas installing explosives all over one floor with no one noticing, which is just the start of your problems.

Quote:
you could always wrap the charges in fire proofing material to stop any premature detonations,
According to truthers pre mature detonations were going off all over the place, but when the actual collapses happened where all this concrete pulverising and steel flinging was meant to be occurring none were even loud enough to be picked up on videos. How is that?

Last edited by Edx; 11th November 2010 at 11:00 AM.
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Old 11th November 2010, 10:58 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by thecritta View Post
What about the massive hole that he made in the steel beam it looks
very similar in appearance to the steel that was found from the wtc with the swiss cheese type apearance why dont you guys try explaining that?

Let me guess your just going to deny that it looks similar it really is a waste of
time posting here, JREFS will never admit to anything.
Source a picture of the swiss cheese steel at the WTC and we will compare.
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Old 11th November 2010, 11:35 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by RedIbis View Post
Didn't even bother to watch it I see. How shocking.
There was no melted structural steel the video is a lie, from an idiot liar. Good job exposing idiots trying to back in thermite.

The video lies about the fires, saying they were going out. Not surprised you back idiots pushing moronic lies so stupid they debunk themselves. Good job Gravy Obsessive person.

The video says they found thermite in the dust, an idiotic lie since the energy of the dust never matched thermite. Failure for 9 years and now you push lies outright. You posted lies from an idiot
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Old 11th November 2010, 11:49 AM   #48
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Quote:
The video says they found thermite in the dust, an idiotic lie since the energy of the dust never matched thermite. Failure for 9 years and now you push lies outright. You posted lies from an idiot
[/quote]

Must have been fun playing with all that steel and thermate!
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Old 11th November 2010, 12:09 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Because, whatever the delusions of the truth movement, the events of 9/11 are very fully understood, and the anomalies claimed by truthers are simply not real.
The swiss cheese steel reported by FEMA, the iron rich microspheres in the USGS particle atlas, and the thematic nanocomposite found by Harrit et al. are real. On the other hand, the notion that the towers could have come down so quickly and completely absent having been rigged to do so is pure fantasy, hence the reason nobody can produce any semblance of experimental confirmation to support it.

Last edited by kylebisme; 11th November 2010 at 12:18 PM.
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Old 11th November 2010, 12:18 PM   #50
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The "swiss cheese" eroded steel was studied by the Worcester group, and found to have been due to a sulfidation attack, not thermite. Their experimentation showed reaction kinetics on the order of hours to days; that right there eliminates thermate from consideration.

The supposed "thermatic" material from Jones's crew was anything but. This was demonstrated using Jones's and Harrit's own data, and shown to be material that was hardly "thermitic" at all.

This gets pointed out time and time again. You truthers cannot keep beating the drum of disproven proposals.
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Old 11th November 2010, 12:27 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by kylebisme View Post
The swiss cheese steel reported by FEMA, the iron rich microspheres in the USGS particle atlas, and the thematic nanocomposite found by Harrit et al. are real. On the other hand, the notion that the towers could have come down so quickly and completely absent having been rigged to do so is pure fantasy, hence the reason nobody can produce any semblance of experimental confirmation to support it.
The idiot who did the experiment proved no thermite at the WTC. Guess why? You truthers have failed for 9 years and your name, truther, is a lie. Good job remaining in ignorance with Red for over 9 years.


the guy is using political science personal moronic biases to attack 911 issues and failed


thermite leaves iron products, not found at the WTC, oops, I told you the clue

It was funny, the moron who did the video misses the fact he proved no thermite was used at the WTC, and he makes up the biggest fantasy, the columns were loaded with themite during construction before 1971. Delusions of 911 truth are so stupid only a few very gullible followers believe this insanity.

Last edited by beachnut; 11th November 2010 at 12:33 PM.
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Old 11th November 2010, 12:48 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by ElMondoHummus View Post
The "swiss cheese" eroded steel was studied by the Worcester group, and found to have been due to a sulfidation attack, not thermite. Their experimentation showed reaction kinetics on the order of hours to days; that right there eliminates thermate from consideration.
Um, maybe because they were looking at how that could have happened over days and weeks in a hot debris pile? Obviously, as is pointed out, sulfidation could also occur through thermate.

Quote:
The supposed "thermatic" material from Jones's crew was anything but.This was demonstrated using Jones's and Harrit's own data, and shown to be material that was hardly "thermitic" at all.

This gets pointed out time and time again. You truthers cannot keep beating the drum of disproven proposals.
Where is your peer-reviewed paper on it?
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Old 11th November 2010, 01:23 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by ergo View Post
Um, maybe because they were looking at how that could have happened over days and weeks in a hot debris pile? Obviously, as is pointed out, sulfidation could also occur through thermate.



Where is your peer-reviewed paper on it?
Jones paid to have his paper published and data in the paper proves he did not find thermite. Read the paper and weep for your failed moronic movement of lies. At least Gage travels and puts away 75K a years fooling people like you.

No sulfidation could not occur through thermate, it leaves products fused to the steel. Oops, bee dunked by themselves in the video which clearly shows thermate products attacked to the steel. self bee dunked

The steel sample from WTC 7 was corroded not melted; the videos talks of melted steel, there was no melted steel found at the WTC. bee dunked by evidence, you are adding to over 9 years of failure ... can't 911 truth read? Why are you guys call truth when all you do is lie?

Morons with video will not earn a Pulitzer Prize. Why? Where is your evidence? Where is your physics?

The nut in the video says the other columns had thermate placed in them during construction! In 1970/71. This is fantasy, and you fall for it.
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Old 11th November 2010, 01:33 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by ElMondoHummus View Post
The "swiss cheese" eroded steel was studied by the Worcester group, and found to have been due to a sulfidation attack, not thermite.
Thermate, is thermite with sulfer, and causes damage comprable to that of the swiss cheese steel FEMA found.

Originally Posted by ElMondoHummus View Post
Their experimentation showed reaction kinetics on the order of hours to days; that right there eliminates thermate from consideration.
Please quote whatever you are referring to here specifically.

Originally Posted by ElMondoHummus View Post
The supposed "thermatic" material from Jones's crew was anything but. This was demonstrated using Jones's and Harrit's own data, and shown to be material that was hardly "thermitic" at all.
The highly exothermic reaction and production of iron rich microspheres when it's ignited proves it's thermitic, and most obviously not paint. As for the notion that the XEDS map shows the aluminum platelets are already oxidized, they're not, but rather they're simply coated in a silicon oxide.

Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
thermite leaves iron products, not found at the WTC...
Again, iron rich microspheres are found throughout the dust, as noted in the USGS particle atlas.

Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
...he makes up the biggest fantasy, the columns were loaded with themite during construction before 1971.
You came up with that nonsense on your own.

Regardless, even if the evidence that the buildings we rigged to come down had been buried, you've all still got squat for experimental confirmation to support the notion that the towers could have come down so quickly and completely as the towers did absent such sabotage.
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Old 11th November 2010, 01:36 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by ergo View Post
Obviously, as is pointed out, sulfidation could also occur through thermate.
I'd like you to find an independent scientific paper that backs that statement up.

Sulphidation occurs through solid state diffusion and is therefore subject to f,i,ck's (see editing reason) Laws of diffusion. If you understand what these laws are then you would see that Time plays a large factor (along with temperature and concentration gradient across the solid/gas interface) in the rate of diffusion.

There simply is not enough time in 1 hour to get corrosion of the steel seen in those samples let alone a few seconds of burning thermate.

If I was performing an experiment to determine a (most likely parabolic) rate constant for sulphidation I would be performing the test past 1000 hrs and I still wouldn't expect to see "swiss cheese" steel.

Lastly no thermate was found in Jones' own paper because he doesn't find enough Sulphur in any of the chips/samples for his material to be thermate - so the thermate debate is dead apart from those too ignorant to know otherwise.

If you wish to start educating yourself I suggest you start by looking at carburising of steels to understand the diffusion process as used to case harden steel.

Last edited by Sunstealer; 11th November 2010 at 01:37 PM. Reason: swear filter doesn't recognise f-i-c-k-s law
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Old 11th November 2010, 02:15 PM   #56
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Whatever happened to nanothermite?

Fairly simple as some noted earlier. No discernible explosions just prior to the collapses. And no light indicative of a thermite reaction. Kind of important given that the two main characteristics of each product respectively are totally absent.
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Old 11th November 2010, 02:28 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
I may have missed it among the filler material that makes it rather too tedious to watch. Can you give me a time stamp for the bit where he demonstrates making a horizontal cut through a vertical column?

Dave

ETA: I see he managed to melt a bit out of the side of one, and make a vertical cut down the middle of one. Neither of these constitutes cutting the column.
Not to mention the fact that he is using relitively thin steel compared to the steel that was used in the towers.

But hey, good job TM!!

(I won't even get started on the fact that he is using thermate instead of thermite/nano-thermite)
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Old 11th November 2010, 02:30 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by kylebisme View Post
Thermate, is thermite with sulfer, and causes damage comprable to that of the swiss cheese steel FEMA found.
As clearly seen in the video, the thermate leaves products fused to steel. Oops, no products found on the FEMA sample, just corroded, not melted steel. No melted steel found, zero samples. you lost, add this to your 9 years of failure pile of junk...

Originally Posted by kylebisme View Post
Please quote whatever you are referring to here specifically.
There was study done on steel to replicate the FEMA sample, it took a long time to corrode the steel; you lost again, double this time due to lack of knowledge and zero research.

come prepared next time


Originally Posted by kylebisme View Post
The highly exothermic reaction and production of iron rich microspheres when it's ignited proves it's thermitic, and most obviously not paint. As for the notion that the XEDS map shows the aluminum platelets are already oxidized, they're not, but rather they're simply coated in a silicon oxide.
There are iron rich micro-spheres in my yard, you can take the most abundant elements on earth (crust) and you have evidence of the same. My goodness, O, Fe, Si, Al are the most abundant elements in the earths crust and Jones fools you into thinking they mean thermite was used to bring down the WTC; you sure are gullible.

Originally Posted by kylebisme View Post
Again, iron rich microspheres are found throughout the dust, as noted in the USGS particle atlas.
And in my backyard. Gee whiz, professor Peabody ...

Originally Posted by kylebisme View Post
You came up with that nonsense on your own.
Sorry, in the video the moron states the thermite devices were placed in the shell columns during construction. He is insane, I saved the video in-case his relatives decide to have him committed. Happy-Dale's newest inmate...

Originally Posted by kylebisme View Post
Regardless, even if the evidence that the buildings we rigged to come down had been buried, you've all still got squat for experimental confirmation to support the notion that the towers could have come down so quickly and completely as the towers did absent such sabotage.
Sorry, fire and gravity did it. Your inability to comprehend the physics behind a gravity collapse are ironic since gravity is the major energy source in CD.

The collapse of each tower released over 130 TONS of TNT energy due to gravity; you can't comprehend physics so you like delusions made up by morons, you think are experts. 9 years of failure has not stopped you, I would try education to cure your gullibility next. Google and 911 truth have failed you. Try a physics course...
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Old 11th November 2010, 02:31 PM   #59
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I'll go slightly out on a limb here and award this guy a big round of applause for getting off his arse and actually trying something himself. And with a high degree of skill and ingenuity.

The logical and logistical problems in applying this kind of process at WTC remain insurmountable, however. Not to mention evidence.
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Old 11th November 2010, 02:31 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by thecritta View Post
What about the massive hole that he made in the steel beam it looks
very similar in appearance to the steel that was found from the wtc with the swiss cheese type apearance why dont you guys try explaining that?

Let me guess your just going to deny that it looks similar it really is a waste of
time posting here, JREFS will never admit to anything.
Somewhat similar, yes.

Does that hole that he made also have inner-granular melting that occurs at a much lower temperature?

The piece that WPI tested did not reach a temperature as hot as thermite does.
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Old 11th November 2010, 02:34 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by kylebisme View Post
Thermate, is thermite with sulfer, and causes damage comprable to that of the swiss cheese steel FEMA found.


Please quote whatever you are referring to here specifically.
I understand the difference between thermite and thermate. Neither were used, the WPI study shows this. Look up previous threads on this topic.

Originally Posted by kylebisme View Post
The highly exothermic reaction and production of iron rich microspheres when it's ignited proves it's thermitic, and most obviously not paint. As for the notion that the XEDS map shows the aluminum platelets are already oxidized, they're not, but rather they're simply coated in a silicon oxide.
This is uninformed babble. The highly exothermic reaction was energetic in far excess of what thermite or thermate can produce; see previous threads and posts showing the violation of thermite's heat of reaction. You're behind on this topic, and are simply repeating points that have long been refuted.

Furthermore, the "production" of the iron microspheres was not established by the Jones team; it was merely claimed. They did not properly eliminate the possibility that they were already within the matrix of the combusted material before they were tested. Yes, I'm fully aware that they claimed they examined it and didn't find any, but at least one of Jones's micrographs that are supposedly "before" pictures shows an item that can be argued as being an iron microsphere. Add that to the fact that Jones has been known to distort evidence in the past, and you have a claim that needs more than their assertion to back it. Their claim is insufficient.

Also: The platelets are identified as Kaolin. Your assertion that they're simply silicon oxide coated platelets is unjustified, unsupported, and in fact, contradictory to the notion that this is a manufactured nanothermate composition since silicon dioxide would compete with the iron in the redox reaction with the aluminum. Furthermore, if SiO2 were indeed present with elemental i.e. free, unbound Aluminum (the presence of which that team did not establish, and was shown by Sunstealer to not even be present), sulfur (recall, you're the one claiming thermate) and combusted in air (as they did in their calorimeter test), one of their by-products would've been H2S gas. I don't recall reading that as being reported as a product by Jones and Harrit.

(And no, don't try to bring the notion that it could've been silicon monoxide. That would've oxidized in air to silicon dioxide and you would've been right at the spot I'm pointing out above. I'm aware of the application of silicon monoxide to astronomy optics, but there are other processes involved, as well as coatings or other methods to prevent the SiO from oxidizing in air. So that's a failed proposal from the start).

And lastly, as Sunstealer and The Almond have pointed out, those spheres are not "iron rich". They most definitely contain other substances.

Originally Posted by kylebisme View Post
Again, iron rich microspheres are found throughout the dust, as noted in the USGS particle atlas.
And have long been noted to be present well before 9/11, most likely due to it's known presence in concrete. Which also happens to square properly with the elevated microsphere findings after the collapses; that strongly indicates that the microspheres were liberated from concrete during the collapses. There's zero about Jones's and Harrit's work to prove the spheres were generated on 9/11 or via thermate reactions, and plenty to argue that they were already present beforehand in concrete. Again, this is ground well covered in previous threads. You need to catch up.

Originally Posted by kylebisme View Post
Regardless, even if the evidence that the buildings we rigged to come down had been buried, you've all still got squat for experimental confirmation to support the notion that the towers could have come down so quickly and completely as the towers did absent such sabotage.
Not only irrelevant, but flies in the face of studies by organizations not only independent of the federal government (i.e. the Purdue simulation), but also of the US entirely. Look up Architect's posts regarding the studies the Arup group has done.
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Old 11th November 2010, 02:36 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by thecritta View Post
Hold on why do people insist that there would have to be charges thermitic or
not planetd everywhere according to you guys and the OCT all you would have to do is rigg the area of the building where the plane went in about ten floors blow the charges dropping the upper section onto the lower section and then you have yourself a gravity driven crush down type demolition this is why i believe a demolition of the wtc twin towers wouldnt not be so hard after all anyway that deals with issue of idiots running everywhere through the towers planted charges and risking getting busted anyone noticing and
you could always wrap the charges in fire proofing material to stop any premature detonations, and why risk using remote detonators when you could rig the charges with some sort of timer to go off at a set time in precise manner.

And by the way the video does demonstrate that horizontal cuts are possible
with thermite look at the inside of the box column he constructed even the normal thermite
almost cut through it when it exploded, the only problem is you would need thermite with
more of a bang to cut all the way through and that where explosive nanothermite comes into
play a more potent form of thermite as so to say.

See anythings possible.

How did these devices survive the plane crash? I bet I could break those things with a sledge hammer and a 6 pack of beer.

Since we know that collapse began at the same exact point as the plane crash, how did these devices survive?
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Old 11th November 2010, 02:41 PM   #63
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How thick is his steel? Now compare with the WTC Columns.
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Old 11th November 2010, 02:49 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by thecritta View Post
No timers found you say huh, why would they survive? Why would they not have been pulverised to dust along with the rest of the building contents and materials? Atleast the perps had a way that they could ensure any physical evidence of their wrong doings would be destroyed and not found later on in the mess they generated. I like how some duh bunkers have said if the tower where
destroyed in a CD type fashion there would be detonator cords everywhere just assuming it was an actual explosive controlled demolition but why would they survive? Even probably the detonator cords would have been pulverised into nothing, there where not
even electrical wires found in the wtc rubble, not from the pictures i have seen anyhow.

Remnants of det-cord always survives.



Electrical wires?

Like these?



and these?



What were you saying?
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Old 11th November 2010, 03:04 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by triforcharity View Post
Remnants of det-cord always survives.



Electrical wires?

Like these?

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h1...to_WTC-272.jpg

and these?

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h1...to_WTC-361.jpg

What were you saying?
I'm waiting for some "genius" to start claiming that the bottom picture wasn't at Ground Zero because of the "Puget Sound" FEMA jackets in the picture. You and I know that rescue personnel came from around the country to help with the response (I personally know one from Chicago), but I've never been disappointed by holding low expectations of truthers. In fact, I've far too often been surprised at how often I've given them too much credit.
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Old 11th November 2010, 03:12 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by ElMondoHummus View Post
I'm waiting for some "genius" to start claiming that the bottom picture wasn't at Ground Zero because of the "Puget Sound" FEMA jackets in the picture. You and I know that rescue personnel came from around the country to help with the response (I personally know one from Chicago), but I've never been disappointed by holding low expectations of truthers. In fact, I've far too often been surprised at how often I've given them too much credit.
LOL!!

I know that there were some S&R guys from Miami there. One of them is a very good friend of mine. Him and I spent days on that pile together.

Too much credit! I couldn't agree more.
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Old 11th November 2010, 03:53 PM   #67
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Well I have to congratulate this truther for actually doing something, I do wish though that they'd finish their work before they present it.

I wasn't keen on the number of ... in the ... quotes used in the ...video.

Independant verification of the results would be nice, or at least better documentation of the experiments.

He got a swiss cheese effect which is great. Now he just needs to have it tested to see if it matches the eutectic corrosion on the couple of WTC samples that had a similar appearance.

His bolt burners were nice but lets have a look at some numbers. There's 4 bolts per column and you have access holes/joints on 1/3 of the columns on any 1 level, so that's 336 bolt burners to weaken 1/3 of a floors perimeter columns and 84 igniters (assuming 1 igniter can set off the 4 within a column).You'd probably also want to weaken the top and bottom of any particular panel so that would double your numbers and hitting more than 1/3 of the panels means more again. So we have the remains of potentially thousands of these things in the debris pile clanging around inside the perimeter columns........I wonder why none were found?

So, while this was an interesting experiment for him, it doesn't even begin to form a coherent demolition theory that matches observed features.
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Old 11th November 2010, 04:05 PM   #68
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Not to mention that the steel that was recovered showed signs of a stress fracture, not a cut section like his do.
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Old 11th November 2010, 04:21 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by triforcharity View Post
Not to mention that the steel that was recovered showed signs of a stress fracture, not a cut section like his do.
(Cue pic of fireman with cut beam behind him.)
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Old 11th November 2010, 07:30 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Sunstealer View Post
Sulphidation occurs through solid state diffusion and is therefore subject to f,i,ck's (see editing reason) Laws of diffusion. If you understand what these laws are then you would see that Time plays a large factor (along with temperature and concentration gradient across the solid/gas interface) in the rate of diffusion.

There simply is not enough time in 1 hour to get corrosion of the steel seen in those samples let alone a few seconds of burning thermate.
So, how do you explain the holes and corrosion that Jon Cole was able to produce in the steel at 10:38?
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Old 11th November 2010, 07:54 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by RedIbis View Post
If it were trivial, it wouldn't have been one of your major debunking points.

And exactly how many of these curious steel fabrications were recovered at ground zero? or did they all just self destruct, The magnet and spring clip holding devices? The shotgun style tubes? The pneumatic activators? The tiered inserts? Or hell even remains of column connections burnt off. You would think one of his perimeter bolt burner fabrications would survive wholly intact within the confines of a tubular steel column.

You know what i see in that video? Truther desperation.
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Old 11th November 2010, 08:34 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by RedIbis View Post
If it were trivial, it wouldn't have been one of your major debunking points.
Haha, oh wow.

You do realise, Red, that by definition, "debunking" is not a process of bringing up new hypotheses, but rather a process of refuting existing hypotheses? There is no such thing as a "major debunking point". We can only debunk that which Truthers have already brought up.

In other words, it would never have been a big deal if Truthers had not made it into one.

In other other words: We never had any interest in this point. We were only forced to address it because you idiots wouldn't shut up about it.
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Old 11th November 2010, 08:38 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by ergo View Post
So, how do you explain the holes and corrosion that Jon Cole was able to produce in the steel at 10:38?
9 years!

9 years of work and what does 9/11 "Truth" have to show for it? A couple of holes in a steel beam! LOL!

9 years!

It took 9/11 Truth longer to produce this one single piece of insignificant evidence than it took Peter Jackson to produce all three "Lord of the Rings" films.

You people truly are pathetic.
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Old 11th November 2010, 08:45 PM   #74
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9 YEARS!

LOL!

You know what? I take back everything I've ever said about the Truth Movement. You people don't deserve to be insulted, ridiculed, or hated. You deserve to be pitied, consoled, and comforted. How bad I would feel if I had wasted 9 years of my life producing nothing!

Any evidence of thermate at WTC? Haha!

You proved thermate could make a little hole in this steel beam! LOL! Any evidence it could have brought down a 110-story skyscraper?

No?

Looks like you've got another 9 years of work to do!

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Old 11th November 2010, 09:00 PM   #75
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Most of the responses here... pretty much sum up the collective of my thoughts... let me just end it with that..
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Old 11th November 2010, 09:28 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by ergo View Post
So, how do you explain the holes and corrosion that Jon Cole was able to produce in the steel at 10:38?

As was said earlier, his holes would need to be tested and compared to those found on samples from the WTC.

(What is it with you people and your insistence that "eyeballing it" is the only analysis one could possibly need? God damn...)
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Old 11th November 2010, 10:01 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd View Post
As was said earlier, his holes would need to be tested and compared to those found on samples from the WTC.

(What is it with you people and your insistence that "eyeballing it" is the only analysis one could possibly need? God damn...)
My God... it can't be eyeballed to make a proper comparison! That's what these truthers are missing! The WPI studies included micrographs of the grain boundary layers showing the different iron/iron oxide/iron sulfide phases, and without something similar done to this steel, there is no way to tell if the result is a true replication or not!

Jesus... what you're pointing out is exactly what I mean when I curse truthers for engaging in "cargo cult science": That sort of practice just takes the superficial form of experimentation without bothering to aquire any critical understanding of the underlying conceptual issues. Burning holes in the steel is insufficient; that can be done with a frikkin' thermal lance. What's important is seeing if the microstructure studied by Barnett, Biederman, Sisson, Sullivan, and Vander Voort gets replicated.

And if these fools understood the WPI findings, they'd realize that in no way, shape, or form could thermite/thermate have been involved in this. The reaction kinetics to form those attack boundaries Biederman, Barnett, and Sisson noted are way too slow to have been from thermite/*mate, and on top of that, those phases would've been destroyed by the temperatures a thermite/mate reaction reaches anyway. Right there is falsification of the concept simply from applying known principles to what is observed about the original eroded WTC steel!

Cripes...
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Old 11th November 2010, 10:14 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by triforcharity View Post
Remnants of det-cord always survives.



Electrical wires?

Like these?

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h1...to_WTC-272.jpg

and these?

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h1...to_WTC-361.jpg

What were you saying?
That sure is a lot of dust!
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Looks like the one on top has a magazine, thus needs less reloading. Also, the muzzle shroud makes it less likely for a spree killer to burn his hands. The pistol grip makes it more comfortable for the spree killer to shoot. thaiboxerken
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Old 12th November 2010, 01:36 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by RedIbis View Post
If it were trivial, it wouldn't have been one of your major debunking points.
It wasn't.

Dave
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Old 12th November 2010, 01:39 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by ergo View Post
Um, maybe because they were looking at how that could have happened over days and weeks in a hot debris pile? Obviously, as is pointed out, sulfidation could also occur through thermate.
So we then come to Occam's Razor. We know that heat and sulphur were present in the rubble pile. We have no evidence, once the incompetent analysis of Harrit et al is discarded, of thermite in the rubble pile. Therefore, we provisionally conclude that the cause of the effect was the heat and sulphur known to be present. There is still no reason to even consider thermate.

And, of course, we have no evidence that there was any sulphidation of the samples produced in this video.

Dave
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