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Tags anti-vax , vaccines

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Old 20th November 2010, 05:08 PM   #1
MattusMaximus
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Anti-Vaccination PSA Coming to a Theater Near You… Literally!

Folks, we need to spread the word far & wide on this one:

http://skepticalteacher.wordpress.co...you-literally/
Quote:
It’s time to kick some ass… I just found out that the anti-vaccinationist groups called Age of Autism and SafeMinds are planning on running a public service announcement (PSA) in movie theaters nationwide the weekend following Thanksgiving. I’ve seen the 30 second ad, and it contains the usual thoroughly debunked nonsense regarding “mercury toxins in vaccines” and how this is supposedly dangerous for children. ...

... I suggest that if you live in any of these areas (or know people who do) that you contact the theater in question to find out whether or not they plan to run this PSA, and if they do plan to do so then make it well known to them that you will boycott that business in perpetuity (and you will encourage everyone you know to do the same). I would also notify your local health department and medical doctors’ organization about this, on the chance that they might wish to make some kind of public statement against this idiocy.
Cheers - MM
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Old 20th November 2010, 07:52 PM   #2
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bump
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Old 20th November 2010, 08:10 PM   #3
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Noted and am spreading the word.

I noticed the article allows comments.
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Old 20th November 2010, 08:12 PM   #4
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Thanks for the heads up. I really don't understand this anti-vaccination crowd at all.

I dugg the blog post, but since I have all of 1 follower, I doubt it'll get much play.
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Old 20th November 2010, 08:18 PM   #5
Emet
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I just looked into the group behind the PSAs. They promote the DAN! Approach to treating and 'curing' Autism.

A dear friend has a mildly autistic son. She relies on physical therapists, speech therapists, and other professionals--he is doing much better, thank you. And he received a flu shot this year.

He has strange eating habits due to a bit of OCD, but they sure don't fuss over it.

I have some friends in GA and VA. E-mails will be sent.

Thanks for warning folks, MM.

Last edited by Emet; 20th November 2010 at 08:24 PM.
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Old 20th November 2010, 08:54 PM   #6
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Any suggestions, MM, as to the best way to counter this assault on reason?
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Old 20th November 2010, 09:11 PM   #7
MattusMaximus
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Any suggestions, MM, as to the best way to counter this assault on reason?
In my blog post I called for people to contact the theaters listed if they're in the area, ask if the PSA is slated to be played, and if so express concern/outrage about it to the manager. I even went so far as to tell people to boycott these theaters and to let the managers know why they were boycotting the theaters - hopefully the threat of such financial pressure will make them reconsider playing the PSA. Other people have suggested handing out anti-anti-vax literature outside these theaters, but I don't know how feasible that would be. It could be tricky, depending upon local laws & private property issues.
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Old 21st November 2010, 09:18 AM   #8
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While it is not necessary, at least it is possible to get mercury-free flu vaccine. The PSA is still despicable.
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Old 21st November 2010, 09:23 AM   #9
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Cheer up. Won't big pharma soon counter with its' own advertisement played in theatres?
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Old 21st November 2010, 09:43 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by AlBell View Post
Cheer up. Won't big pharma soon counter with its' own advertisement played in theatres?
Big pharma has pre-countered its reaction...which may be the source of the problem. The need to sell new drugs is intense and pervasive. We are regularly bombarded with that effort. The woo reaction, however misguided, may be a gut level aversion to that arrogance.

As a kid, i recall the early tv ads. Put a lab coat and a stethoscope on an actor, and you'll buy their brand of tobacco.
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Old 21st November 2010, 11:04 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by AlBell View Post
Cheer up. Won't big pharma soon counter with its' own advertisement played in theatres?
Big Pharma, as in a worldwide public health network of dedicated health professionals and researchers who are not getting rich, all the medical community including hundreds of thousands of practicing family, pediatric, and infectious disease physicians & nurse practitioners, countless informed nurses and other medical professionals all over the world, university professors and researchers, and non-profit agency professionals who fund research, again all over the world? That Big Pharma?

Unless of course, all those highly educated, experienced, knowledgeable, dedicated medical and science professionals are either duped or in on the conspiracy.

And a handful of fringe people in the medical profession with a few thousand conspiracy theory followers with no medical experience, education or special skills other than they read a bunch of stuff on the Internet and elsewhere can see what all those highly educated, experienced, knowledgeable, dedicated medical and science professionals cannot see, that vaccine promotion is all about some corporate profit, not about saving lives.
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Old 21st November 2010, 11:12 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by quarky View Post
Big pharma has pre-countered its reaction...which may be the source of the problem. The need to sell new drugs is intense and pervasive. We are regularly bombarded with that effort. The woo reaction, however misguided, may be a gut level aversion to that arrogance.

As a kid, i recall the early tv ads. Put a lab coat and a stethoscope on an actor, and you'll buy their brand of tobacco.
While I strongly advocate media literacy, something we inexplicably don't value enough as a society to add to school curricula, I wonder if you have any evidence supporting this hypothesis? Because I'm wondering why the same people who reject scientific evidence based medicine have no issues with the advertising bombardment of those same lab coated actors promoting every snake oil scam they can get away with?
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Old 21st November 2010, 11:21 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by MattusMaximus View Post
In my blog post I called for people to contact the theaters listed if they're in the area, ask if the PSA is slated to be played, and if so express concern/outrage about it to the manager. I even went so far as to tell people to boycott these theaters and to let the managers know why they were boycotting the theaters - hopefully the threat of such financial pressure will make them reconsider playing the PSA. Other people have suggested handing out anti-anti-vax literature outside these theaters, but I don't know how feasible that would be. It could be tricky, depending upon local laws & private property issues.
One of the theater complexes is listed as "Edwards" so may be an independent, one is listed as United Artists but also as a Regal and all the rest are listed as AMC Loews. Since there isn't one listed in the Seattle area, I think I'll bring up with our local skeptics group to contact AMC as they do have movie theaters in this area.
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Old 21st November 2010, 11:30 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Big Pharma, as in a worldwide public health network of dedicated health professionals and researchers who are not getting rich, all the medical community including hundreds of thousands of practicing family, pediatric, and infectious disease physicians & nurse practitioners, countless informed nurses and other medical professionals all over the world, university professors and researchers, and non-profit agency professionals who fund research, again all over the world? That Big Pharma?
No, the management of a few multinationals that make multi-billions selling their products. They'll just discover movie theatres as a new ad opportunity.

Although you and others here seem to believe that group does nothing against public best-interest, I don't.
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Old 21st November 2010, 12:32 PM   #15
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This is really discouraging. I wish there was more that I could do other than countering the message to friends and family.
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Old 21st November 2010, 01:09 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by quarky View Post
Big pharma has pre-countered its reaction...which may be the source of the problem. The need to sell new drugs is intense and pervasive. We are regularly bombarded with that effort. The woo reaction, however misguided, may be a gut level aversion to that arrogance.

As a kid, i recall the early tv ads. Put a lab coat and a stethoscope on an actor, and you'll buy their brand of tobacco.
Come now, however guilty "big pharma' may be of all sorts of sins, you cannot blame them for the sins of the tobacco industry.
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Old 21st November 2010, 01:16 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Come now, however guilty "big pharma' may be of all sorts of sins, you cannot blame them for the sins of the tobacco industry.
Yeah, that was some members of 'little pharma'.
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Old 21st November 2010, 01:37 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by AlBell View Post
...
Although you and others here seem to believe that group does nothing against public best-interest, I don't.
Well that's quite a straw man. I post quite often on the need for and lack of corporate social responsibility. I debate the Libertarians on the board fairly regularly on the problems with marketing having a negative impact on any efficacy one hopes to find in free market forces.

Do you believe the scientific evidence that vaccines do tremendous good compared to any risks they might pose?
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Old 21st November 2010, 01:50 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by AlBell View Post
Cheer up. Won't big pharma soon counter with its' own advertisement played in theatres?
Tu Quoque. This is a sneaky, deceptive 'public service' announcement on the part of SafeMinds. They have clearly worked with a PR professional as their real message is highly sanitised (I guess even they have to admit they can't let their freak flag fly too high). I am, by the way, firmly against direct-to-consumer advertising by pharmaceutical companies. Although I don't foresee any industry attempting to counter this.

Este
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Old 21st November 2010, 02:20 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Well that's quite a straw man. I post quite often on the need for and lack of corporate social responsibility. I debate the Libertarians on the board fairly regularly on the problems with marketing having a negative impact on any efficacy one hopes to find in free market forces.

Do you believe the scientific evidence that vaccines do tremendous good compared to any risks they might pose?
Can't speak for Al, Ginger, but I suspect he's referring to things known to happen pretty widely like making minor (usually non-medical) changes to a drug about to go off-patent so they can repatent it - even though there is no functional change in the medical efficacy of the drug. Or charging more for the drug to US patients than to patients outside the US. Or fighting attempts to force the withdrawal of the drug when it is found to be harmful due to one or more side effects. Or covering up/ forgetting to pass on negative reports on efficacy or safety. All of which have turned out to have actually happened with US drug companies (not only, but also) in the reasonably recent past.

Overall, the companies provide products that help many of us stay healthy (healthier) and/or at least feel some better - denying that would be silly - but there are real darker parts of them and those darker parts help lead to things like the silliness of the anti-vaxers.
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Old 21st November 2010, 02:24 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Well that's quite a straw man. I post quite often on the need for and lack of corporate social responsibility. I debate the Libertarians on the board fairly regularly on the problems with marketing having a negative impact on any efficacy one hopes to find in free market forces.
"Corporate Social Responsibility" for what I deemed big pharma stops at the bottom line, as fuelair just mentioned.

Quote:
Do you believe the scientific evidence that vaccines do tremendous good compared to any risks they might pose?
Have certainly cut down on minor illness, which is what flu is for most. The possibility of first world outbreaks of diphtheria, whooping cough, pneumonia, Hep B and many other things recommended is basically zip. MMR, I have no strong inclination either way, but most kids will receive it wanted or not.

Save lives? Go back to killing mosquitos with DDT.

Last edited by AlBell; 21st November 2010 at 02:26 PM.
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Old 21st November 2010, 02:31 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by portlandatheist View Post
This is really discouraging. I wish there was more that I could do other than countering the message to friends and family.
Now you can.
On the AMC getsatisfaction website, there is a letter denouncing the psa and requesting its romoval. You can add your voice by clicking on the box.

http://getsatisfaction.com/amc_theat..._from_your_ads

Its at 360 votes atm.
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Old 21st November 2010, 02:35 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
One of the theater complexes is listed as "Edwards" so may be an independent, one is listed as United Artists but also as a Regal and all the rest are listed as AMC Loews. Since there isn't one listed in the Seattle area, I think I'll bring up with our local skeptics group to contact AMC as they do have movie theaters in this area.
UA Cinema, Regal Cinema, and Edwards Cinema are the three main brands owned by Regal Entertainment Group with 6,775 screens, 548 locations in 39 states and DC. WP
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Old 21st November 2010, 03:46 PM   #24
MattusMaximus
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Originally Posted by OlegTheBatty View Post
Now you can.
On the AMC getsatisfaction website, there is a letter denouncing the psa and requesting its romoval. You can add your voice by clicking on the box.

http://getsatisfaction.com/amc_theat..._from_your_ads

Its at 360 votes atm.
Thanks for the notification on this - I'll pass it along.
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Old 21st November 2010, 03:59 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
Can't speak for Al, Ginger, but I suspect he's referring to things known to happen pretty widely like making minor (usually non-medical) changes to a drug about to go off-patent so they can repatent it - even though there is no functional change in the medical efficacy of the drug. Or charging more for the drug to US patients than to patients outside the US. Or fighting attempts to force the withdrawal of the drug when it is found to be harmful due to one or more side effects. Or covering up/ forgetting to pass on negative reports on efficacy or safety. All of which have turned out to have actually happened with US drug companies (not only, but also) in the reasonably recent past.

Overall, the companies provide products that help many of us stay healthy (healthier) and/or at least feel some better - denying that would be silly - but there are real darker parts of them and those darker parts help lead to things like the silliness of the anti-vaxers.
None of this is news to me. Nor is it anything I've not pointed out in a thread or three about the failure of the free market to produce the best outcome with some products like pharmaceuticals. Instead of better products the free market is supposed to create, drug companies get better at marketing and taking known market share from competitors rather than developing drugs we need like new antibiotics.

But it is totally irrelevant when it comes to the claim that Big Pharma is pushing vaccines for profit and those of us who are trying to counter the anti-vaccine nonsense are duped or in on it when we discredit anti-vaxxers with the evidence.
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Old 21st November 2010, 04:07 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by AlBell View Post
....
Have certainly cut down on minor illness, which is what flu is for most. The possibility of first world outbreaks of diphtheria, whooping cough, pneumonia, Hep B and many other things recommended is basically zip. MMR, I have no strong inclination either way, but most kids will receive it wanted or not.

Save lives? Go back to killing mosquitos with DDT.
This post reveals your ignorance about the evidence. It brings me back to my original question which you dodged by changing the subject to Big Pharma advertising.

So for the sake of this discussion, let's just say we agree on the problems with marketing pharmaceuticals, we agree on problems with corporate irresponsibility. But you seem to think that because some in the pharmaceutical industry are greedy and sleazy that means nothing they produce, including vaccines could have any benefit.

So answer my questions, please: Do you think the entire worldwide public health network of dedicated health professionals and researchers who are not getting rich, all the medical community including hundreds of thousands of practicing family, pediatric, and infectious disease physicians & nurse practitioners, countless informed nurses and other medical professionals all over the world, university professors and researchers, and non-profit agency professionals who fund research, again all over the world are duped or in on the conspiracy?

Why would you believe that a handful of fringe people in the medical profession with a few thousand conspiracy theory followers with no medical experience, education or special skills other than they read a bunch of stuff on the Internet and elsewhere can see what all those highly educated, experienced, knowledgeable, dedicated medical and science professionals cannot see, that vaccine promotion is all about some corporate profit, not about saving lives?
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Old 21st November 2010, 04:11 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by OlegTheBatty View Post
Now you can.
On the AMC getsatisfaction website, there is a letter denouncing the psa and requesting its romoval. You can add your voice by clicking on the box.

http://getsatisfaction.com/amc_theat..._from_your_ads

Its at 360 votes atm.
Done. Thanks for the link.
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Old 21st November 2010, 04:16 PM   #28
Skeptic Ginger
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Originally Posted by OlegTheBatty View Post
Now you can.
On the AMC getsatisfaction website, there is a letter denouncing the psa and requesting its romoval. You can add your voice by clicking on the box.

http://getsatisfaction.com/amc_theat..._from_your_ads

Its at 360 votes atm.
That's great. I had to register with "GetSatisfaction" or release all my FaceBook info to them, so I registered and voted. Definitely worth the effort. Maybe we can get a few bloggers, like PZ to also recruit some votes.

The count is already up to 860 people agree with the complaint.... Now 948 about a minute later. Yeah!

1299 and rising.
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Old 21st November 2010, 04:34 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
This post reveals your ignorance about the evidence.
Thanks for sharing.

Quote:
It brings me back to my original question which you dodged by changing the subject to Big Pharma advertising.

So for the sake of this discussion, let's just say we agree on the problems with marketing pharmaceuticals, we agree on problems with corporate irresponsibility. But you seem to think that because some in the pharmaceutical industry are greedy and sleazy that means nothing they produce, including vaccines could have any benefit.
Please quote me as saying that. I didn't, so don't bother looking.

Quote:
So answer my questions, please: Do you think the entire worldwide public health network of dedicated health professionals and researchers who are not getting rich, all the medical community including hundreds of thousands of practicing family, pediatric, and infectious disease physicians & nurse practitioners, countless informed nurses and other medical professionals all over the world, university professors and researchers, and non-profit agency professionals who fund research, again all over the world are duped or in on the conspiracy?
Nope. I've never said anything like that either.

Quote:
Why would you believe that a handful of fringe people in the medical profession with a few thousand conspiracy theory followers with no medical experience, education or special skills other than they read a bunch of stuff on the Internet and elsewhere can see what all those highly educated, experienced, knowledgeable, dedicated medical and science professionals cannot see, that vaccine promotion is all about some corporate profit, not about saving lives?
You want to borrow a match to burn all those strawmen that you set up?
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Old 21st November 2010, 04:41 PM   #30
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Quote:
Ryan Noonan, Official Rep, replied 26 minutes ago
Thank you all for your feedback. I know there's a lot of passion shared on this thread today and I apologize for the short delay in response here.

I want to assure everyone that AMC has no plans to air any ad or Public Service Announcement about the vaccination topic, nor has any ad or PSA about the issue been shown on our screens.

Again, I appreciate you all taking the time to share your thoughts. I hope this clarifies the issue.
http://getsatisfaction.com/amc_theat..._from_your_ads
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Old 21st November 2010, 05:18 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Emet View Post
Great News, now what about Regal Entertainment? And Sony?

Este

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Old 21st November 2010, 06:31 PM   #32
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Which one is Sony?
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Old 21st November 2010, 06:49 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Chris Haynes View Post
Which one is Sony?
None that I could tell from MM's list but just covering the bases as they are in the Northeast U.S.

Este
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Old 21st November 2010, 07:12 PM   #34
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Old 21st November 2010, 07:19 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by AlBell View Post
Thanks for sharing.


Please quote me as saying that. I didn't, so don't bother looking.


Nope. I've never said anything like that either.


You want to borrow a match to burn all those strawmen that you set up?
Then address the contradiction in your claim,

"Have certainly cut down on minor illness, which is what flu is for most. The possibility of first world outbreaks of diphtheria, whooping cough, pneumonia, Hep B and many other things recommended is basically zip. MMR, I have no strong inclination either way, but most kids will receive it wanted or not.
Save lives? Go back to killing mosquitos with DDT."


and what the vast majority of the scientific and medical community's position on vaccinations is. Because your opinion is not based on evidence or the scientific and medical community's conclusions about the evidence.

You can't have it both ways, AlB, much as you apparently would like to. Either you buy the majority opinion on vaccines or you explain why you think you know more than those of us who work in the field of infectious disease prevention. Either you believe we are duped or in on the Big Pharma conspiracy, or you can offer your own explanation why you don't think the majority scientific and medical community knows what they are talking about when it comes to vaccines.
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Old 21st November 2010, 07:49 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Come now, however guilty "big pharma' may be of all sorts of sins, you cannot blame them for the sins of the tobacco industry.
That's not what i was getting at. Its more of a history of creating something like a priest class, via the Doctor image. American TV is still rife with it; we are programmed. And now our magazines are full of ads extolling us to ask (tell) our doctor about the drug we want to buy.

I think this had led to a back-lash of distrust. I'm not blaming science, or doctors...but I can imagine why it happens; this confusion; this distrust.
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Old 21st November 2010, 08:39 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by AlBell View Post
"Corporate Social Responsibility" for what I deemed big pharma stops at the bottom line, as fuelair just mentioned.


Have certainly cut down on minor illness, which is what flu is for most. The possibility of first world outbreaks of diphtheria, whooping cough, pneumonia, Hep B and many other things recommended is basically zip. MMR, I have no strong inclination either way, but most kids will receive it wanted or not.

Save lives? Go back to killing mosquitos with DDT.
I don't know where you got the idea that "first world outbreaks" of these diseases are not likely. Many people aren't getting vaccinations and boosters; therefore, whooping cough, at least, is coming back in the U.S. (a first-world country). See here:
Quote:
Fielding says lack of awareness and misinformation is helping to fuel the largest pertussis outbreak L.A. County has ever seen. Ten infants have died and more than 1,600 cases were reported in the month of October alone.

"We are way above where we had expected to be," said Fielding. "We're above any year that we've seen before, so this epidemic continues unabated."

Studies show 41 percent of infants infected with pertussis contracted the disease from a sibling; 38 percent contracted it from their mother; and 17 percent from their father. That's why Fielding says every child who hasn't completed their vaccination schedule needs to do so, and every one over the age of 11 needs to get a booster.
Also see here, from the CDC:

Quote:
Recent Outbreak Activity

Localized outbreaks of pertussis are not uncommon and occur throughout the year. Some examples of current pertussis activity in the US include:
  • From January to November 16, 2010, more than 6,700 cases of pertussis (including ten infant deaths) were reported throughout California. This is the most cases reported in 63 years when 9,934 cases were reported in 1947 and the highest incidence in 52 years when a rate of 26.0 cases/100,000 was reported in 1958. Previously, the peak was in 2005 when there were 3,182 cases reported. Visit the California Department of Public Health website for the most recent information.
  • In Michigan, an increase in pertussis was first observed in the second half of 2008, continued throughout 2009, and has continued to date throughout 2010. This is on top of a long term rising trend in the reported number of pertussis cases since about 1990. As of September 30, there were 917 cases reported for this year. In 2009 (for the complete year) there were 902 cases reported. In 2008 there were 315 cases reported. Visit the Michigan Department of Community Health website for the most recent information.
For other diseases, see the CDC:

Quote:
In 1988 the World Health Assembly unanimously agreed to eradicate polio worldwide. As a result of global polio eradication efforts, the number of cases reported globally has decreased from more than 350,000 cases in 125 countries in 1988 to 2,000 cases of polio in 17 countries in 2006, and only four countries remain endemic (Afghanistan, India, Nigeria, Pakistan). To date polio has been eliminated from the Western hemisphere, and the European and Western Pacific regions. Stopping vaccination before eradication is achieved would result in a resurgence of the disease in the United States and worldwide.

This section last updated April 2007.

<snip>

According to the World Health Organization (WHO), nearly 900,000 measles-related deaths occurred among persons in developing countries in 1999. In populations that are not immune to measles, measles spreads rapidly. If vaccinations were stopped, each year about 2.7 million measles deaths worldwide could be expected.

In the U.S., widespread use of measles vaccine has led to a greater than 99 percent reduction in measles compared with the pre-vaccine era. If we stopped immunization, measles would increase to pre-vaccine levels.

<snip>

Pertussis cases occur throughout the world. If we stopped pertussis immunizations in the U.S., we would experience a massive resurgence of pertussis disease. A study* found that, in eight countries where immunization coverage was reduced, incidence rates of pertussis surged to 10 to 100 times the rates in countries where vaccination rates were sustained.

*Reference for study: Gangarosa EJ, et al. Impact of anti-vaccine movements on pertussis control: the untold story. Lancet 1998;351:356-61.

This section last updated August 2010.

<snip>

National studies have shown that about 12.5 million Americans have been infected with hepatitis B virus at some point in their lifetime. One and one quarter million Americans are estimated to have chronic (long-lasting) infection, of whom 20 percent to 30 percent acquired their infection in childhood. Chronic hepatitis B virus infection increases a person's risk for chronic liver disease, cirrhosis, and liver cancer. About 5,000 persons will die each year from hepatitis B-related liver disease resulting in over $700 million in medical and work loss costs.

The number of new infections per year has declined from an average of 450,000 in the 1980s to about 80,000 in 1999. The greatest decline has occurred among children and adolescents due to routine hepatitis B vaccination.

Infants and children who become infected with hepatitis B virus are at highest risk of developing lifelong infection, which often leads to death from liver disease (cirrhosis) and liver cancer. Approximately 25 percent of children who become infected with life-long hepatitis B virus would be expected to die of related liver disease as adults.

CDC estimates that one-third of the life-long hepatitis B virus infections in the United States resulted from infections occurring in infants and young children. About 16,000 - 20,000 hepatitis B antigen infected women give birth each year in the United States. It is estimated that 12,000 children born to hepatitis B virus infected mothers were infected each year before implementation of infant immunization programs. In addition, approximately 33,000 children (10 years of age and younger) of mothers who are not infected with hepatitis B virus were infected each year before routine recommendation of childhood hepatitis B vaccination.
I could go on and on, with other diseases. It would, however, be better if you read the links and found out your statement was incorrect.
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Old 21st November 2010, 09:18 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by quarky View Post
That's not what i was getting at. Its more of a history of creating something like a priest class, via the Doctor image. American TV is still rife with it; we are programmed. And now our magazines are full of ads extolling us to ask (tell) our doctor about the drug we want to buy.

I think this had led to a back-lash of distrust. I'm not blaming science, or doctors...but I can imagine why it happens; this confusion; this distrust.
You never answered my questions in post #12:

"I wonder if you have any evidence supporting this hypothesis? Because I'm wondering why the same people who reject scientific evidence based medicine have no issues with the advertising bombardment of those same lab coated actors promoting every snake oil scam they can get away with?"
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Old 21st November 2010, 09:38 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by FattyCatty View Post
I don't know where you got the idea that "first world outbreaks" of these diseases are not likely.

Thanks Fatty Catty. I'm in SoCal and this last pertussis outbreak has definitely been in the news. Additionally, I'm the granddaughter of a Polio survivor. Both my grandfather and my father worked hard as physicians and Rotarians to wipe out Polio. I struggle to find patience for people who impede vaccination efforts.

Anne
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Old 21st November 2010, 10:17 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
You never answered my questions in post #12:

"I wonder if you have any evidence supporting this hypothesis? Because I'm wondering why the same people who reject scientific evidence based medicine have no issues with the advertising bombardment of those same lab coated actors promoting every snake oil scam they can get away with?"
I don't have any hard evidence, but it seems clear to me, that when people's minds are pumped full of lies and contradictory 'facts', they become irrational.
I think that's what we're seeing.

Snake oil is embraced as something other than that expensive, humiliating doctor's appointment. Its about as deep as a divorced couple seeking new mates that represent the opposite of the bitch/bastard.

I'm continually compelled to remind this global community of the reality of health care, minus insurance, in the U.S.
It simply sucks. In fact, its a breeding ground for woo.
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