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Tags obituaries , osama bin laden

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Old 2nd May 2011, 06:28 AM   #201
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Originally Posted by little grey rabbit View Post
Don't you find it a little odd that no one that I have seen has not pointed out that the outcome of this mission - if you assume that AQ is not the black ops arm of the CIA - has been at best only a half-success? Not only does OBL live in a prestigious suburb for several years, but when he is located you can't even capture him alive?
as this is less than 24 hours since the operation was conducted, it is too early to determine exactly what happened.

Though it sounds like the administration (BO and company) went in and gave orders to KILL him.

I don't like that. If it was at all possible he should have been captured, interrogated and then tried and executed.


Quote:
Surely this is a failure that needs an explanation? Agreeing that is early days.
Yup... I'd like to see the after action reports, and even the planning if possible.

Quote:
Incidently, regarding respecting Islamic burial tradition - I don't think there is a strict 24 hour rule. But one thing I have noticed that if you talk to many Arabs they will not spontaneously bring up AQ or Osama bin Laden. If you, as I have done on occasion, say that you believe 9/11 was done by the American government, even quite respectable Arabs, ie professionals, will enthusiatically agree, almost like floodgates have been opened. These people mostly seem to say that they consider Osama bin Laden a very holy man - which seems to me illogical since he has either kept his trap shut since 9/11 or released some very odd video statements.
Living in the UAE, surrounded by muslims, many of them firmly believe in the "you have to be buried within a day after dying" idea. They will tell you firmly to your face that is is in the Holy Qu'ran.

As for the agreement of muslims that it must have been the US government, or the jews.... well how do you want your faith portrayed? Their entire lives, muslims have been labeled "terrorists"
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Old 2nd May 2011, 06:30 AM   #202
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Originally Posted by Scott Jurgenson View Post
Right things don't always play out where the hero has time to quickly take out the gun hand, then disarm and tie the suspect while the other cats in the room shooting don't hit anything but the walls around them.

.
This all takes place after the hero has been in a fight with the bad guys and has been punched and kicked full force in the face and maybe been belted on the head by an iron bar. Makes you wonder which planet these Hollywood scriptwriters live on. The same one as the truthers most likely.
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Old 2nd May 2011, 06:39 AM   #203
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Originally Posted by little grey rabbit View Post
A sequencing machine is not something you cart around the world at a whim. It is large and heavy and takes a while to set up - you need specialised personal to run it, you trained people to score genotypes and run comparisions, I struggle to see the point to expedite by no more than 24 hours a DNA confirmation.
I can get next day results on a DNA test for $950 plus tax.

Last edited by Furcifer; 2nd May 2011 at 06:41 AM. Reason: $950 not 250
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Old 2nd May 2011, 06:39 AM   #204
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Originally Posted by TruthersLie View Post
as this is less than 24 hours since the operation was conducted, it is too early to determine exactly what happened.

Though it sounds like the administration (BO and company) went in and gave orders to KILL him.

I don't like that. If it was at all possible he should have been captured, interrogated and then tried and executed.
The operative word here is "if".
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Old 2nd May 2011, 06:47 AM   #205
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Originally Posted by Sabretooth View Post
I know you're being sarcastic here...but some idiot called the local talk radio this morning calling shenanigans on the whole "buried at sea" thing...

The thing is, the US had to do that. Had they buried OBL on land anywhere, that grave would have instantly become a shrine for all the other terrorist idiots...
Actually, that wouldn't have been such a bad idea after all!

Put a non-descript grave, nothing big, and then when people come to pay their "respects", scoop them bastards up too!!
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Old 2nd May 2011, 06:48 AM   #206
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Originally Posted by dafydd View Post
No thermite?
Oh no, the thermite was used to set the helicopter and all the other evidence aflame!! WOOT!
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Old 2nd May 2011, 06:51 AM   #207
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Another Police sniper shoots a gun from hand 50 yards away

Originally Posted by Drudgewire View Post
lol nice edit to take out the part about "one of the shots" to make it look like a calculated sharpshooting rather a fortunate hit as bullets were flying around.
Originally Posted by TheRedWorm View Post
So let me get this straight: You want the military to train for an insanely lucky shot at very close range in the middle of a firefight?
For sharp shooters it is not luck. It what they train to be able to do.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ff4XuPtAOUk
http://www.flicklife.com/d3ebaabb04d...guys_hand.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fv69hX4jlWQ

Why weren't they ordered to take him alive, and bring him to justice (a trial)?
He was surrounded, and will eventually run out of ammo, or need a kidney dialysis.

Last edited by TruthMakesPeace; 2nd May 2011 at 07:07 AM.
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Old 2nd May 2011, 06:56 AM   #208
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do you HONESTLY think that some dude holding a pistol in a non threatening manner and a man shooting at you are the same circumstances in which a sharpshooter can do what you claim?

have you -ever- been in a firefight?
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Old 2nd May 2011, 06:56 AM   #209
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Originally Posted by TruthMakesPeace View Post
That guy wasn't shooting at anyone, genius. If he was, they would have killed him. Furthermore, how the hell would the SEALs set up snipers when there is an 18 foot wal around the compound?
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Old 2nd May 2011, 06:58 AM   #210
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Originally Posted by Unsecured Coins View Post
do you HONESTLY think that some dude holding a pistol in a non threatening manner and a man shooting at you are the same circumstances in which a sharpshooter can do what you claim?

have you -ever- been in a firefight?
I'm guessing no.

the fact of the matter is - in order for a sharpshooter to hit his hand, the sharpshooter would have to be in a prone position, shooting a hand that isn't moving. Of course it could be done, but I'm fairly sure those weren't the circumstances.
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Old 2nd May 2011, 07:03 AM   #211
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Originally Posted by TruthMakesPeace View Post
And this is what Navy Seals do when you gotta get **** done.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


Start at about 3:30 or so.

Last edited by triforcharity; 2nd May 2011 at 07:04 AM.
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Old 2nd May 2011, 07:04 AM   #212
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'Nuclear hellstorm'

Guess we'll soon know if KSM is right.

'Nuclear hellstorm'
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Old 2nd May 2011, 07:04 AM   #213
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What were we these guys thinking not reading Bin laden his Miranda rights? Outrageous conduct I tell you.
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Old 2nd May 2011, 07:05 AM   #214
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
I'm guessing no.

the fact of the matter is - in order for a sharpshooter to hit his hand, the sharpshooter would have to be in a prone position, shooting a hand that isn't moving. Of course it could be done, but I'm fairly sure those weren't the circumstances.

"Not taking return fire" also helps.
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Old 2nd May 2011, 07:09 AM   #215
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i watched that whole video and didn't once see a SEAL say "aim for the gun!!"
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Old 2nd May 2011, 07:13 AM   #216
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Originally Posted by Björn Toulouse View Post
Guess we'll soon know if KSM is right.

'Nuclear hellstorm'
I think is pretty much a guarentee that he was lying. Where the hell would those savages het a nuclear weapon. There is no way they could build one. And there is no way a country would be stupid/suicidal enough to give them one.
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Old 2nd May 2011, 07:13 AM   #217
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Originally Posted by TruthersLie View Post
Though it sounds like the administration (BO and company) went in and gave orders to KILL him.
UK News agencies are regularly indicating that US officials have confirmed it was a *kill mission*.
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Old 2nd May 2011, 07:15 AM   #218
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Originally Posted by TruthMakesPeace View Post
For sharp shooters it is not luck. It what they train to be able to do.
Why weren't they ordered to take him alive? He was surrounded.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ff4XuPtAOUk
http://www.flicklife.com/d3ebaabb04d...guys_hand.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fv69hX4jlWQ

Negative. Lucky shots are not what they are "trained" to do. Police officers as well as soldiers are trained to shoot center mass. People who pay even the least bit of attention to marksmanship training understand that the whole notion of shooting guns out of people's hands is an accident of luck and circumstance, and it's not something you deliberately train to do. Don't mistake exceptions for the rule; they most certainly do not train for that, nor are they taught to do that. What few examples exist are the product of unusual circumstances plus a police officer's or soldier's decision to deviate from training to take a higher risk course of action to suit the circumstance. It is not something you plan deliberately to do.

Also: Don't make things up about deadly force training. That tanks your credibility.
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Old 2nd May 2011, 07:18 AM   #219
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Originally Posted by Unsecured Coins View Post
i watched that whole video and didn't once see a SEAL say "aim for the gun!!"
I didn't either.

Cicorp is talking out of his posterior as usual.
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Old 2nd May 2011, 07:19 AM   #220
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Originally Posted by femr2 View Post
UK News agencies are regularly indicating that US officials have confirmed it was a *kill mission*.
Quite right. Vermin are there to be exterminated.
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Old 2nd May 2011, 07:19 AM   #221
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Originally Posted by triforcharity View Post
I didn't either.

Cicorp is talking out of his posterior as usual.
Oh, that's Cicorp? Huh. (*adds him to ignore list*)

Thanks, man. I missed that fact.
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Old 2nd May 2011, 07:20 AM   #222
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Originally Posted by femr2 View Post
UK News agencies are regularly indicating that US officials have confirmed it was a *kill mission*.
Yep. I am getting that info too.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapc...pt=T1&iref=BN1

I retract my previous statements. Oh well.

Guess what? I didn't lose a damn bit of sleep due to sadness. I lost sleep due to drinking!!
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Old 2nd May 2011, 07:21 AM   #223
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Originally Posted by ElMondoHummus View Post
Oh, that's Cicorp? Huh. (*adds him to ignore list*)

Thanks, man. I missed that fact.
Yeah, that's our old pal cicorp, who aparently thought we wouldn't notice the name change.
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Old 2nd May 2011, 07:23 AM   #224
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I don't realize that either.
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Old 2nd May 2011, 07:24 AM   #225
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Keeping him alive would have been a LOT of trouble.
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Old 2nd May 2011, 07:25 AM   #226
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Originally Posted by triforcharity View Post
Yeah, that's our old pal cicorp, who aparently thought we wouldn't notice the name change.
He should've changed his avatar as well.
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Old 2nd May 2011, 07:26 AM   #227
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Yep. Look at the Pentagon - Cicorp thread.
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Old 2nd May 2011, 07:27 AM   #228
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Originally Posted by ElMondoHummus View Post
People who pay even the least bit of attention to marksmanship training understand that the whole notion of shooting guns out of people's hands is an accident of luck and circumstance, and it's not something you deliberately train to do. Don't mistake exceptions for the rule; they most certainly do not train for that, nor are they taught to do that. What few examples exist are the product of unusual circumstances plus a police officer's or soldier's decision to deviate from training to take a higher risk course of action to suit the circumstance. It is not something you plan deliberately to do.

Aiming for the gun goes against the most basic objective of this sort of operation: "neutralize the threat." It's a tiny and moving target, and missing once gives him time to kill your fellow soldiers. The notion is mind-bogglingly stupid... which makes it par for the course in twoofworld.
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Old 2nd May 2011, 07:30 AM   #229
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I can't believe this thread has turned into a debate. I agree with a post from page 1 or 2 that said this is a celebration thread, not a debate thread like every other thread on JREF.

The truthers have hijacked the Yahoo comments as well.
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Old 2nd May 2011, 07:33 AM   #230
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I must admit, I wish Osama had been caught. It would help to bury some of the truthers. I know they would claim it was a fake Osama or he was tortured into saying he was in charge of 911, but it could have helped.

In South Africa our news websites are full of truthers popping out of the woodwork! All the commenst are full of truthers spweing stuff I havent seen since 2005.

Shows how damaging the truther movement can be. Idiots all over the world are believeing their stories.
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Old 2nd May 2011, 07:35 AM   #231
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Originally Posted by Drudgewire View Post
Aiming for the gun goes against the most basic objective of this sort of operation: "neutralize the threat." It's a tiny and moving target, and missing once gives him time to kill your fellow soldiers. The notion is mind-bogglingly stupid... which makes it par for the course in twoofworld.
Right, exactly. Center mass of a human is far bigger target than just about any gun, especially when it's pointed at you. Even when you're talking an assault rifle, which may not fly out of someone's hands if it's successfully hit by a bullet, it's not a large target relative to the broadness of a torso.
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Old 2nd May 2011, 07:50 AM   #232
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Watching CNN right now, and they are interviewing Wajid Hasan the High Commissioner of Pakistan to the U.K, and he is trying to claim that they knew in advance, that they "did know this was going to happen". The interviewer asks him a direct question
"When did your government know this was going to happen" and he gives him a non-direct answer.

I have a feeling that he is lying.

"When did they tell you they were going in?"

"We were in the know, we had been sharing intelligence"

Evading the question.....nice!
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Old 2nd May 2011, 07:57 AM   #233
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Originally Posted by triforcharity View Post
Watching CNN right now, and they are interviewing Wajid Hasan the High Commissioner of Pakistan to the U.K, and he is trying to claim that they knew in advance, that they "did know this was going to happen". The interviewer asks him a direct question
"When did your government know this was going to happen" and he gives him a non-direct answer.

I have a feeling that he is lying.

"When did they tell you they were going in?"

"We were in the know, we had been sharing intelligence"

Evading the question.....nice!
Yeah it seems likely to me they are lying. US forces going into their country, near the capital to whack Osama makes them look bad. Almost as bad as him living in a manion near their capital. And oh well. If I was Obama, I probably wouldn't have told them anything. Who knows what kind leaks there might be in their government.
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Old 2nd May 2011, 08:07 AM   #234
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Originally Posted by dafydd View Post
Quite right. Vermin are there to be exterminated.
It's obvious OBL wasn't ever going to surrender willingly, he'd rather die for his cause as a martyr. Which is exactly how his supporters will now see him. Maybe he planned to kill himself or have guards kill him rather than be captured, so what other choice was there apart from killing him first? None.
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Old 2nd May 2011, 08:15 AM   #235
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FFS, they weren't playing Hide And Go Seek they were hunting him.

Is it even possible to ask a soldier to go into combat and ask him to make non lethal shots? It seems to me like that's got to violate some sort of code. If my commanding officer asked me to shoot at someone but not kill them I'd be pissed. May as well paint a bulls eye on my chest.
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Old 2nd May 2011, 08:23 AM   #236
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Originally Posted by dtugg View Post
Yeah it seems likely to me they are lying. US forces going into their country, near the capital to whack Osama makes them look bad. Almost as bad as him living in a manion near their capital. And oh well. If I was Obama, I probably wouldn't have told them anything. Who knows what kind leaks there might be in their government.
Oh, I agree 100%. I don't fully trust the Pakistani government, and for good reason. This being one of them.
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Old 2nd May 2011, 08:49 AM   #237
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Originally Posted by triforcharity View Post
Oh no, the thermite was used to set the helicopter and all the other evidence aflame!! WOOT!
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m14-th3.htm
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Old 2nd May 2011, 08:59 AM   #238
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Why would they use that? It's too easy! Gotta paint that SOB with nano-thermite paint!!



-------------------------------------

As an asside, here is the GPS for what is being reported as the hideout.

34°11'15.85"N
73°14'33.18"E

The PMA is not even 1 mile from his hideout. It is at the corner of Awami Rd and Kakul Rd, just SE of the site.

Amazing.
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Old 2nd May 2011, 09:08 AM   #239
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Originally Posted by aggle-rithm View Post
Keeping him alive would have been a LOT of trouble.
There would be dozens of kidnappings with the sole purpose of exchanging them for bin laden. Killing him and getting rid of the body at sea means there won't be a shrine to him also.
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Old 2nd May 2011, 09:09 AM   #240
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Originally Posted by triforcharity View Post
Why would they use that? It's too easy! Gotta paint that SOB with nano-thermite paint!!



-------------------------------------

As an asside, here is the GPS for what is being reported as the hideout.

34°11'15.85"N
73°14'33.18"E

The PMA is not even 1 mile from his hideout. It is at the corner of Awami Rd and Kakul Rd, just SE of the site.

Amazing.
Actually the nano-thermite is just a match for the thermate. Don't forget the thermate!
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