Genomic evidence unraveling Christianity as Evangelicals question myth of Adam & Eve

Gaius said:
Hmm? Those were generics; I was mostly speaking about Protestantism. I rarely think of Catholicism because Catholicism has a tendency to just recycle the old guys and give them new saintly names :D.

The real issue is evangelicalism which is a hardcore and literal interpretation of the bible. There is a deep belief that everything in the bible is the literal spoken word of god! Nothing in the bible must deviate from its original state or the entire word is false. I know because I have to deal with two evangelical parents trying to get me to renounce science and reason and get me to go to church every Sunday.

Any scientific evidence that dismantles biblical symbolism is thrown out as scientific nonsense. I always greet my parents in the morning with "HEY how's it goin' my fellow hairless apes? Isn't it another great day to be a hairless ape? :D" And my parents go :jaw-dropp, quoting scriptures and what not. It's all very funny actually TShaitanaku. Bottom-line is that Evangelicalism is actually on the rise in the states. And its congregations are intensely spreading across America like wildfire.

They are attempting to stamp out scientific education and replace it with a highly inaccurate and biased biblical education. Don't believe me, go to a museum in a major city and a group of evangelicals will give ignorant but very innocent Christians tours of how they think the world works. "Now the Earth is 6'000 years old, and the dinosaurs actually lived with humans in ancient times." I'll find you a video of something I saw like that and prove to you what I am saying is no joke, or laughing matter!!!
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The fact that there are young people like you means that there is STILL hope.

I must admit....every time I meet a young person who REGURGITATES the retarded christian apologetics and maintains that science is secondary to the bible... I feel a great pain in my heart.

I would like you to ask your parents to read
Mark 16:15-18
He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

And these signs will accompany those who believe:
  1. In my name they will drive out demons;
  2. they will speak in new tongues;
  3. they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all;
  4. they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”


Then ask them about number 4 in the list......

Is there ANY ONE person in America that can go to the Veterans' Hospitals and lay his hands on the THOUSANDS of veterans that have lost limbs and make those limbs grow back.

Is there ANY ONE person in America that can go to the Cancer wards and cure the millions of CHILDREN that are dying from cancer.

Is there ANY ONE person in America that can go to the nursing homes that have millions of AUTISTIC CHILDREN or SPINA BIFIDA VICTIMS or or or or or or or or or ....CHILDREN born with all sorts of genetic and congenital deceases.......

IS THERE ONE F***** REAL christian who can prove Mark 16:18 to be a true assertion????

If not then it means one of two things:
  1. Jesus was a LIAR
  2. All American Christians who profess to being good followers of Jesus are LIARS

So ask your parents which one of the above two options they want to avow.

But…But…wait….hang on…. On second thoughts…. Better not….they are your parents and you are not obeying them…so maybe they would invoke the PUNISHMENT for the 5th commandment (in fact it is not the 5th commandment but this is another argument see below)

Deuteronomy 21:18-21
If someone has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. They shall say to the elders, “This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a glutton and a drunkard.” Then all the men of his town are to stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid.​



Better not ask them…. Keep the peace….

For another day….ask your parents to recite the 10 commandments….they won’t be able to tell you them all…and even if they do…they never remember the bit about god being a jealous god who will punish the children for their parents’ sins up to FOUR GENERATIONS.

BUT THEN….drop this surprise on them……THESE ARE NOT the 10 commandments the ten commandments that are actually CALLED the TEN COMMANDMENTS in the actual biblical text and that are labeled accordingly by Moses and that are on the two tablets that end up in the ark are a TOTALLY different set of commandments…..so ask you parents when they want to have the ten commandments in the court houses…..WHICH BLOODY 10 commandments they want …..THE REAL ONES called so by Moses and God….or the ones that European Christians decided they are?????? Is Christianity obeying God by SECOND GUESSING him??

Here are the REAL ten commandments…..notice verse 28….. by the way….the words “ten commandments” is mentioned in the biblical text ONLY THREE times…. The one below and two times in Deuteronomy…. NONE of the times refers to the ten commandments that people think they are (thou shalt not kill etc.)

Exodus 34

1 The LORD said to Moses, “Chisel out two stone tablets like the first ones, and I will write on them the words that were on the first tablets, which you broke. 2 Be ready in the morning, and then come up on Mount Sinai. Present yourself to me there on top of the mountain. 3 No one is to come with you or be seen anywhere on the mountain; not even the flocks and herds may graze in front of the mountain.”
[…]
10 Then the LORD said: “I am making a covenant with you. Before all your people I will do wonders never before done in any nation in all the world. The people you live among will see how awesome is the work that I, the LORD, will do for you. 11 Obey what I command you today. I will drive out before you the Amorites, Canaanites, Hittites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites. 12 Be careful not to make a treaty with those who live in the land where you are going, or they will be a snare among you. 13 Break down their altars, smash their sacred stones and cut down their Asherah poles.[a] 14 Do not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.
  1. 15 “Be careful not to make a treaty with those who live in the land; for when they prostitute themselves to their gods and sacrifice to them, they will invite you and you will eat their sacrifices. 16 And when you choose some of their daughters as wives for your sons and those daughters prostitute themselves to their gods, they will lead your sons to do the same.
  2. 17 “Do not make any idols.
  3. 18 “Celebrate the Festival of Unleavened Bread. For seven days eat bread made without yeast, as I commanded you. Do this at the appointed time in the month of Aviv, for in that month you came out of Egypt.
  4. 19 “The first offspring of every womb belongs to me, including all the firstborn males of your livestock, whether from herd or flock. 20 Redeem the firstborn donkey with a lamb, but if you do not redeem it, break its neck. Redeem all your firstborn sons.
  5. “No one is to appear before me empty-handed.
  6. 21 “Six days you shall labor, but on the seventh day you shall rest; even during the plowing season and harvest you must rest.
  7. 22 “Celebrate the Festival of Weeks with the firstfruits of the wheat harvest, and the Festival of Ingathering at the turn of the year. 23 Three times a year all your men are to appear before the Sovereign LORD, the God of Israel. 24 I will drive out nations before you and enlarge your territory, and no one will covet your land when you go up three times each year to appear before the LORD your God.
    [*]25 “Do not offer the blood of a sacrifice to me along with anything containing yeast, and do not let any of the sacrifice from the Passover Festival remain until morning.
    [*]26 “Bring the best of the firstfruits of your soil to the house of the LORD your God.
    [*]“Do not cook a young goat in its mother’s milk.”

27 Then the LORD said to Moses, “Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.” 28 Moses was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights without eating bread or drinking water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant—the Ten Commandments. ​
 
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Gaius said:
Hmm? Those were generics; I was mostly speaking about Protestantism. I rarely think of Catholicism because Catholicism has a tendency to just recycle the old guys and give them new saintly names :D.

The real issue is evangelicalism which is a hardcore and literal interpretation of the bible...
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So, you didn't mean all Jews, Christians and Muslims when you said "Abrahamic religions," you just meant a couple of minor extremist christian sects? Then why did you not state it as such? When you employ broadbrush absolutist remarks as you have, you are using the rhetoric and tactics of those you claim to disapprove of. If you are going to play the role of cheerleader, it doesn't matter which side of an issue you are supporting. If you actually understand and believe what you claim, spend the time and consideration to make good arguments in support and defense of those understandings.
 
TShaitanaku said:
So, you didn't mean all Jews, Christians and Muslims when you said "Abrahamic religions," you just meant a couple of minor extremist christian sects? Then why did you not state it as such? When you employ broadbrush absolutist remarks as you have, you are using the rhetoric and tactics of those you claim to disapprove of. If you are going to play the role of cheerleader, it doesn't matter which side of an issue you are supporting. If you actually understand and believe what you claim, spend the time and consideration to make good arguments in support and defense of those understandings.
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I'll keep that in mind. You sure like to follow me and make sure I'm making good arguments. :catfight:
 
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Skeptic Ginger said:
At some point the evidence just becomes overwhelming, like the church finally getting over the fact the Earth is not the center of the solar system. If not now, it certainly will happen eventually.
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Given that they've already successfully ignored/denied the cosmological evidence of the age of the universe, the geological (and other) evidence for the age of the Earth, the fossil/molecular biological/ecological/botanical/physiological evidence for Evolution and against ID, the errors and contradictions in the bible and much more besides, I think people are being optimistic if they believe this will have much effect on the those suffering from religion.


OK I know the actual quote is “Rational arguments don’t usually work on religious people. Otherwise there would be no religious people.”
 
Dinwar said:
Evangelicals have intellectual currency and respectability to begin with?

Sorry, but they lost that when they went with YEC and rejected evolution in favor of Biblical literalism. And don't some of them advocate working towards Armageddon?
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The young earthers have never had credibilty.
 
The young earthers have never had credibilty.
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Yes, they did. Prior to the rise of geology as a scientific field, YEC was the only game in town, quite literally. There were a few fringe groups advocating an old Earth, but the mainstream was YEC all the way. And they had pretty decent arguments, too--at least arguments that didn't conflict with facts known at the time. Once geology came into its own, it was all over for YEC, but we need to remember history and give credit where credit is due.
 
I always felt that religious belief was similarto a row of dominoes. Down goes one domino and the whole row collapses. Since genesis would be the first domino to fall then it takes xianitys credibility with it.
 
TShaitanaku said:
Follow you? Have I discussed something else with you lately?
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Elephants :p.

You’re just being a good guy showing me the ropes. To be honest I've never been surrounded by so many well informed and knowledgeable people. I am very used to making emotional based arguments and swaying the masses using rudimentary forms of NLP and persuasion. However, you men take the time to make sound and logical arguments, with intense care and research.

You either spend copious amounts of time in creating topics, replying to them, reply to very small and specific points, or when you respond to a post you attack the fundamental ideas and do not use rhetoric.

My skills for debate come from the common masses where knowledge is less of logical matter and more of an emotional matter. I am the kingpin at swaying the common masses :D. You even made me seek out the Purdue OWL for some help :p! Ha-ha, I like this website though it helps keep me sharp and teaches me valuable life lessons. I am looking forward to being able to make sound logical arguments.

Gaius
 
Cainkane1 said:
I always felt that religious belief was similarto a row of dominoes. Down goes one domino and the whole row collapses. Since genesis would be the first domino to fall then it takes xianitys credibility with it.
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Sure, in your mind (and in my mind). But in the fundamentalist mind, the dominoes are set up 1 of 2 ways:

1) All the dominoes are glued to the surface so they can't fall over

or

2) All the dominoes are far enough apart that one falling over doesn't necessarily cause any others to fall over

I suppose there could be the 3rd option, which would be the combination of those two, but this is the problem with attempting rational discussion of evidence with Fundamentalists.
 
sadhatter said:
I was going to say something similar for a laugh, but i always get stopped, even in humor by a certain fact.

God has infinite power, effort is not something he has to expend to do something. Think of programming, but you don't have to program, your just thinking, " I want this" and bam, you have Doom, or Firefox suddenly ready to go.

There would be no possible reason to be lazy.
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Ahh, but then if this god has infinite power, why would he/she/it need to rely on something like DNA? Why not simply "poof" creatures into being?
 
Gaius said:
Elephants :p...
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I'm so sorry, it takes me a few threads and exchanges before I begin to recognize unfamiliar fellow travellers. Please forgive me for not recalling, I'm terrible with names in real life as well, and here, where there is no face to tie in with them, it takes me a while.

Not all are as pendantic as I with regards to the sourcing and supporting of claims, but, I don't want to get too OT here, I just wanted to apologize for not recognizing you and assure you that no slight nor disrespect was intended.
 
TShaitanaku said:
I'm so sorry, it takes me a few threads and exchanges before I begin to recognize unfamiliar fellow travellers. Please forgive me for not recalling, I'm terrible with names in real life as well, and here, where there is no face to tie in with them, it takes me a while.

Not all are as pendantic as I with regards to the sourcing and supporting of claims, but, I don't want to get too OT here, I just wanted to apologize for not recognizing you and assure you that no slight nor disrespect was intended.
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Nah man your good. Plus you have a cute baby picture as your avatar, who could be mad at that :p? Which reminds me I need an avatar associated with this name, thanks!
 
Gaius said:
Nah man your good. Plus you have a cute baby picture as your avatar, who could be mad at that :p? Which reminds me I need an avatar associated with this name, thanks!
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LOL, my father was a marine pilot, which made him the black sheep of our predominantly Army family traditions. This baby pic of me in a marine cap was his way of taking a dig at my grandfather and the rest of our green-blooded family.
 
timhau said:
It's overwhelming already, but nothing can overwhelm folks who stick their fingers in their ears and chant "Laa laa laa, I'M NOT HEARING THIS!"
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Yes things can change. The vast majority of Christian churches no longer insist the Earth is the center of the solar system.

At some point the vast majority of Christian churches will no longer deny evolution. IMO, it is inevitable.
 
catsmate1 said:
Given that they've already successfully ignored/denied the cosmological evidence of the age of the universe, the geological (and other) evidence for the age of the Earth, the fossil/molecular biological/ecological/botanical/physiological evidence for Evolution and against ID, the errors and contradictions in the bible and much more besides, I think people are being optimistic if they believe this will have much effect on the those suffering from religion.
...
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You are simply thinking on a different time scale. It took the Catholic Church 359 years to apologize to Galileo.
 
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