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Old 7th June 2008, 03:06 PM   #1
heavensblade23
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Ed And Lorraine Warren

Anyone have anything insightful to say about Ed And Lorraine Warren, the 'demonologists'?

Obviously some of their stories strain credulity. A demon-possessed Raggedy Ann doll seems unlikely to say the least, but it makes a great (fictional) story nonetheless.

Are there any stories about them being involved in hoaxes or fraud? I know they were involved in the Amityville case, and there seems be a lot of well-poisoning on the web concerning the involvement of Kaplan, who was one of the major players in exposing the Amityville phenomenon as a hoax. Related wikipedia articles largely seems to agree with Kaplan.

I find their devout Christian faith pretty perplexing. I'm reading a book on Ouija Boards right now and they pretty much said you should run away from one like it's on fire...but at the same time Lorraine Warren is supposedly a psychic and a medium herself. I'm not really sure what the great distinction is between using a ouija board to communicate with spirits and making use of psychic powers and mediumistic abilities to do the same. In fact, if you were inclined to believe in such things, it seems to me that using a board would be less dangerous because it's indirect contact. They also seem to hold some belief in 'earthbound' human spirits which is also at odds with their professed faith.

Anyway, thoughts?
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Old 7th June 2008, 06:27 PM   #2
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I'm not really sure what the great distinction is between using a ouija board to communicate with spirits and making use of psychic powers and mediumistic abilities to do the same


Welcome to the forum!
The ouija board, meduims and psychics all have the same distinction none are true and they can never produce the claimed effect!
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Old 7th June 2008, 07:38 PM   #3
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Also, anyone who claims to be Christian but use Ouija Boards/Crystal Balls, reads palms, does psychic readings/tarot readings, etc. is clearly excessively ignorant or is lying. Bible expressly and/or explicitly forbids such with rather colorful and quite precise language.
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Old 7th June 2008, 08:10 PM   #4
Jeff Corey
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That's the old testament, the revised version allows a number of things, like BLTs, shtupping the missus at certain formerly forbidden times of the month and steamers.

Last edited by Jeff Corey; 7th June 2008 at 08:11 PM.
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Old 7th June 2008, 08:48 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Jeff Corey View Post
That's the old testament, the revised version allows a number of things, like BLTs, shtupping the missus at certain formerly forbidden times of the month and steamers.
MMMMM steamers...
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Old 7th June 2008, 09:08 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by heavensblade23 View Post
Obviously some of their stories strain credulity.
You, my friend, are a master of understatement.

The horror writer, Ray Garton, worked on a book for them. The things he had to say were not complimentary.

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.f...e9a0178e6c2330

http://www.amityvillemurders.com/int...s/rgarton.html
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Old 8th June 2008, 07:50 AM   #7
heavensblade23
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Originally Posted by imjohn View Post
You, my friend, are a master of understatement.
I was trying to be charitable.

Quote:
The horror writer, Ray Garton, worked on a book for them. The things he had to say were not complimentary.
This is exactly what I was looking for, thanks.
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Old 8th June 2008, 08:02 AM   #8
Miss Whiplash
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I contacted Mr. Garton about this two years ago. He did indeed post that and stands by his statement. The thread is floating around here somewhere. Ed did have some form of mental illness. In any event, he spent the bulk of his adult life on disability. That's how he was able to live such a freewheeling life, painting pictures of haunted houses, until the ghost hunting thing took off.

BTW-Ed's nephew, John Zaffis has taken over the biz, since Ed died.
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Old 8th June 2008, 08:27 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Miss Whiplash View Post
BTW-Ed's nephew, John Zaffis has taken over the biz, since Ed died.
It was a month or so ago that "The Paracast" had John Zaffis on for a 2 hour interview. It was interesting enough but during the first hour he said "keep an open mind" so much that I wanted to reach thru my iPod and slap him. Apparantly the hosts felt that way, too, as in the 2nd half of the show he didn't say that.

I didn't know he was the Warren's nephew until that show. Talk about riding on the coattails of famous people. Well, at least he comes off as a little more credible than his aunt and uncle.
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Old 9th June 2008, 11:38 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by grayman View Post
MMMMM steamers...
A Google search, but you prolly don't wanna go here. Check out the blue subtitle of the last entry.



Results 1 - 10 of about 300,000 for slang steamers. (0.46 seconds)

Cleveland steamer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Cleveland steamer is a form of coprophilia, where a man or a woman defecates on a partner's chest. .... Categories: Sexual acts | Sexual slang ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_steamer - 25k - Cached - Similar pages

Southern Maryland Slang - Page 2 - Southern Maryland Community Forums
Oct 1, 2007 ... and calling a Sloppy Joe a "Steamer" is Urban Slang usually reserved for something else, but somewhat the same in appearance. ...
forums.somd.com/life-southern-maryland/114214-southern-maryland-slang-2.html - 83k - Cached - Similar pages

Stanley Steamer: Information and Much More from Answers.com
Stanley Steamer has also become a slang-word for "fecal matter". In the movie Lost & Found, comedian David Spade says to another character, "Why do you have ...
www.answers.com/topic/stanley-steamer-2 - 59k - Cached - Similar pages

cleveland steamers - compare prices, research products, save money
...A Cleveland steamer is sexual slang for one partner defecating on the other partner's chest. It is rubbed onto the recipient using a steamroller . ...
www.become.com/shop?q=cleveland+steamers - 177k - Cached - Similar pages
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Last edited by Beerina; 9th June 2008 at 11:41 AM.
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Old 9th June 2008, 01:39 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by heavensblade23 View Post
Are there any stories about them being involved in hoaxes or fraud? I know they were involved in the Amityville case
Looks like you answered your own question there.
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Old 9th June 2008, 02:22 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by imjohn View Post
The horror writer, Ray Garton, worked on a book for them. The things he had to say were not complimentary.

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.f...e9a0178e6c2330
You gotta love the internet - If nothing else, it's making it harder and harder for the con artists and frauds to keep such behavior secret. Though it's just one person's opinion, it strikes me as believable as far as it goes. And this couple sounds particularly miserable in their choice of who to exploit.
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Old 9th June 2008, 03:10 PM   #13
Miss Whiplash
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The Warren's scared quite a few people out of their houses and made a mint off the gullible. IIRC, Lorraine was sued last fall by those involved in a past case.

I don't have a whole lot for John Zaffis either. One "demon possessed" woman died after several exorcisms. The woman had terminal cancer and was at the end stage anyway. Still, I fail to see how indulging a terminal cancer patient's delusions comforted her or her family.
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Old 9th June 2008, 03:43 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Jeff Corey View Post
That's the old testament, the revised version allows a number of things, like BLTs, shtupping the missus at certain formerly forbidden times of the month and steamers.


True, many of the Levitical cultural proscriptions have been dropped by the Christian church, but the basic principle of being forbidden to consult a medium, witch, spiritist, etc. remains the same, and remains a part of Christian doctrine.

The principle being, from Isaiah 8:19, "When men tell you to consult mediums and spiritists, who whisper and mutter, should not a people inquire of their God? Why consult the dead on behalf of the living?"

Which I always thought was an excellent point.

So anybody who hangs out a shingle as a medium consulting the spirits, and claims to be a Christian, is either lying, or horribly deluded as to what being a Christian entails.
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Old 9th June 2008, 08:00 PM   #15
imjohn
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I always thought the Warrens were the worst of the ghost hunters. I used to enjoy Hans Holzer's books, but the first Warren book I read was also the last Warren book I read. Holzer's escapapades with Sybil Leek seemed like hokey fun, but the Warrens just took it all very seriously and their Demonologist crap was straight out of the Exorcist.
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Old 10th June 2008, 01:52 PM   #16
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Heavensblade23, you may want to contact the folks at the New England Skeptic Society. They are the one who put out the weekly podcast, The Skeptic's Guide to the Universe. They have interviewed the Warrens on more than one occaision, I believe.

In one of their podcasts from a couple years ago, they tell a story where Steven Novella, Perry Deangelis and (I think) Jay Novella visited the Warren's home. While in the basement viewing the assortment of demonic objects, Ed Warren warned them not to touch anything for fear of inviting evil. Jay claimed that as soon as Ed turned his back, "I started touching everything I could". Good times.
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Old 11th June 2008, 07:13 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Goshawk View Post
True, many of the Levitical cultural proscriptions have been dropped by the Christian church, but the basic principle of being forbidden to consult a medium, witch, spiritist, etc. remains the same, and remains a part of Christian doctrine.

The principle being, from Isaiah 8:19, "When men tell you to consult mediums and spiritists, who whisper and mutter, should not a people inquire of their God? Why consult the dead on behalf of the living?"
I don't know ask the catholics with the saints.
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Old 11th August 2011, 10:41 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Miss Whiplash View Post
I contacted Mr. Garton about this two years ago. He did indeed post that and stands by his statement. The thread is floating around here somewhere. Ed did have some form of mental illness. In any event, he spent the bulk of his adult life on disability. That's how he was able to live such a freewheeling life, painting pictures of haunted houses, until the ghost hunting thing took off.

BTW-Ed's nephew, John Zaffis has taken over the biz, since Ed died.
I am bringing up this thread because Monster Talk interviewed Ray Garton this week. Enjoy: A Connecticut Haunting in a Keen Authorís Court

Also the thread referred to above is linked to on Ed and Lorrain Warren's wiki page.
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