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Is Islam an evil religion?

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http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/1381-placebos-and-deception.html

Placebos And Deception





Swift

Written by Dr. Steven Novella

Monday, 15 August 2011 12:05


"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool." - Richard Feynman
We (meaning people) are really good at fooling ourselves. Our brains excel at that task perhaps in excess of all others. I suspect this derives from one of the basic functions of our brains - consciousness, which is a constructed illusion of our own existence.


This is not to say that we do not exist, or that our consciousness is not constructed from real information about the world. Our senses have a practical relationship to reality that serves us well. But the end result, our stream of consciousness, is massively constructed. Information is filtered, interpreted, and altered, then stitched together with the gaps filled in seamlessly.

Our brains are constantly making assumptions about what is probably happening, projecting our vision into the future, and altering one sense based upon information from other senses.

At the highest level of functioning, our reasoning ability, our brains spend a lot of time and effort serving our basic emotional needs. So we construct a fictional reality from a highly egocentric perspective. The default mode of human behavior is to engage in "motivated reasoning" - to rationalize away the negative, and emphasize the positive.
Skeptics, to varying degrees, but generally, understand and accept this view of the human condition. We can rattle off examples of how hopelessly biased and mistaken people can be on a regular basis. There does not seem to be any practical limit to the degree to which people can fool themselves.

And yet, on an equally regular basis the skeptical position is often casually dismissed by grossly underestimating the human capacity for self-deception. We hear phrases such as, "so many people can't be wrong," "Where there's smoke there's fire" (referring to anecdotal evidence)," or "Do you think everyone is crazy or lying?"
The effort to promote science-based medicine (SBM), which is an inherently skeptical project (and is now officially supported by the JREF) encounters the same casual dismissal of our arguments. The most important specific manifestation of this dismissal is justification by "the placebo effect." This is why we have spent much time at SBM writing about placebo effects, and why that was our chosen topic for the SBM panel at TAM9 this year.

Essentially, the evidence strongly suggests that placebo effects are largely a manifestation of the same kinds of self deception that leads to belief in alien visitation and Bigfoot. People report that they feel better because of expectation, suggestion, confirmation bias, and a simple desire to get better. They interpret regression to the mean or random fluctuation in symptoms to a cause and effect from treatment. They do not properly isolate variables and will interpret non-specific effects as effects of a specific intervention.

The perception of symptoms in the first place is also highly susceptible to the full spectrum of psychological effects. And further, psychological stress can sometimes manifest as physical ailments, which of course can then respond to the mere suggestion of treatment, which can help alleviate stress.

Engaging all of these psychological effects, as well as distracting patients from symptoms, or getting them to focus more on the positive, and take better general care of themselves, is all part of the therapeutic ritual. This may even include real health benefit from stress reduction, improves lifestyle, and improved compliance with treatments.

When the subjective experience of symptoms improve with a physiologically inactive treatment, many people (I would say most) do not want to believe the apparent effects are due to placebo effects. They want to believe that they are benefiting from the specific effects of a treatment. There is a tendency to be insulted, as if this means the symptoms (or the improvement) was "all in their head" - a commonly used phrase that is meant to imply dismissiveness.

But it's not dismissive. It's no more dismissive than suggesting that someone who believes they were abducted by aliens simply had a hypnagogic hallucination, or that someone who believes they saw a ghost experienced pareidolia combined with suggestion. It's no more dismissive that chalking up the sense that a psychic was very accurate to confirmation bias and a reasonably well done cold-reading.

People are really good at deceiving themselves, even to the point of manufacturing false experiences and memories. This is not dismissive or insulting - it's the human condition.

It is also why we need science. Science is a collection of methods that are designed to control for the significant human tendency toward bias and misperception. If we want to know whether some people have psychic ability, we cannot base our conclusions on anecdotes alone. We need to observe the alleged phenomenon under tightly controlled conditions - conditions that do not allow for all the various methods of self-deception.

The same is true for any medical intervention. If we want to know if a treatment works, we have to test it in such a way that placebo effects can be controlled for. Only if there is a consistent effect in excess of placebo effects do we conclude that the treatment "works" - that it has a specific physiological effect.

More and more, however, proponents of treatments that do not appear to work when studied in controlled conditions are arguing that they "work" through placebo effects. This is like saying that psychic abilities "work" through cold reading.

Placebo effects are mostly, and in some cases entirely, psychological effects and self deception. But even skeptics are often left with the question -well, if it makes people feel better, then who cares.

I think an appropriate analogy is this - it's like saying, well, if people are entertained by a psychic reading, even if it's nothing more than a cold reading, than who cares. Sure, you can make an argument for doing a "psychic" reading for entertainment purposes only. But I think most skeptics understand the risks of doing a cold reading in order to convince someone that one's abilities are genuinely psychic, and then hitting them up for larger and larger sums of money in order to contact their dead relative.

In medicine the stakes are even higher. It is dangerous to use placebo effects to convince individuals, the public, and regulators that an inactive treatment is effective. If someone is convinced that homeopathy works because it "helped" their cold symptoms, they may be inclined to rely on homeopathy when they have a serious illness.

Further, placebo effects have been leveraged to get superstition-based ineffective remedies into medical schools, scientific journals, and funded by the government to be researched. Limited resources are being diverted to pay for and research nonsense. In other words - there is clearly demonstrable direct and indirect harm from confusing placebo effects for specific effects.

All of this mischief is largely due to the fact that people significantly underestimate how massively susceptible we are to self-deception. Feynman's observation is as relevant today as it has ever been


This is why DC would rather believe that I am paranoid than believe Islam is evil.

This is why people want to dismiss this by saying feel-good things like "all religions are evil".

So we construct a fictional reality from a highly egocentric perspective. The default mode of human behavior is to engage in "motivated reasoning" - to rationalize away the negative, and emphasize the positive.
 
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http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/1381-placebos-and-deception.html




This is why DC would rather believe that I am paranoid than believe Islam is evil.

This is why people want to dismiss this by saying feel-good things like "all religions are evil".

So we construct a fictional reality from a highly egocentric perspective. The default mode of human behavior is to engage in "motivated reasoning" - to rationalize away the negative, and emphasize the positive.

I rather believe you are paranoid because you have demonstrated your paranoia over and over again. And you failed to demonstrate that Islam is evil.
 
Ah... I see that Bill is still at it just as benightedly as before.... oh well.... one attribute required for any salesman is PERSISTENCE....even Hate Oil Mongers may find it hard to sell their venom....there is hope for the world yet.
 
http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/1381-placebos-and-deception.html




This is why DC would rather believe that I am paranoid than believe Islam is evil.

This is why people want to dismiss this by saying feel-good things like "all religions are evil".

So we construct a fictional reality from a highly egocentric perspective. The default mode of human behavior is to engage in "motivated reasoning" - to rationalize away the negative, and emphasize the positive.

So a religion can be made evil via the placebo effect, eh?

Wow! What absolutely stunning news.

I had no idea what-so-ever that such a thing could be done. I sure hope that the Nobel Committee has heard of your work as well, because I am sure that they would love to hear how such a thing can happen.
 
Are you seriously trying to support your claim that Islam is evil by citing the placebo effect!?
No I am not.
But the quotes about people wanting to believe what makes them happy is interesting.
I admit. Thinking Islam is ok, makes us all happy.
 
No I am not.
But the quotes about people wanting to believe what makes them happy is interesting.
I admit. Thinking Islam is ok, makes us all happy.

Actually, the only one here rejecting facts they don't like in favor of what they want to believe is you.

Now, are you going to answer my questions about abrogation? Or address why jihad an-nafs is at least a thousand years older than you thought it was (and depending on how accurate you think the early medieval commentators were, is possibly something promulgated by Muhammad himself)?
 
I rather believe you are paranoid because you have demonstrated your paranoia over and over again. And you failed to demonstrate that Islam is evil.

Oh, sorry about that. What do you think of this?

The Quran is very specific and not open to interpretation. There is no special magic way to interpret the evil and cruel demands in the Quran. You can find them for yourself.

I will post just a few. There are more. But these are enough.

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sa=X&e...gc.r_pw.&fp=171c51df8e105d20&biw=1013&bih=658

From:
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/cruelty/long.html

Don't bother warning the disbelievers. Allah has made it impossible for them to believe so that he can torture them forever after they die. 2:6-7

Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kill them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. (But if they desist in their unbelief, then don't kill them.) 2:191-2

War is ordained by Allah, and all Muslims must be willing to fight, whether they like it or not. 2:216

Believers fight for Allah; disbelievers fight for the devil. So fight the minions of the devil. 4:76


Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them. 4:89

Cut off the hands of thieves. It is an exemplary punishment from Allah. 5:38

Life for life, eye for eye, nose for nose, ear for ear, and tooth for tooth. 5:45

Let the idolaters kill their children. It is Allah's will. 6:137

Slay the idolaters wherever you find them. 9:5

ght the disbelievers and hypocrites. Be harsh with them. They are all going to hell anyway. 9:73

Don't pray for idolaters (not even for your family) after it is clear they are people of hell-fire. 9:113

These are just a few. There are more. But I think this is enough

Now, if you somehow think that this is not evil or whatever, i wonder if you have the courage to consider that it is because you WANT to think this way?

I like you. I think you are entertaining. I feel like I am playing fetch. I throw the ball and see how it is going to be returned. I will throw it again when you respond. It is fun.
 
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Now, are you going to answer my questions about abrogation? Or address why jihad an-nafs is at least a thousand years older than you thought it was (and depending on how accurate you think the early medieval commentators were, is possibly something promulgated by Muhammad himself)?

You have been reading too many Muslim apologist web sites.

This is called avoiding the main issue with petty minutia that does not have anything to do with the big picture. Explain what do these things have to do with the big picture.

By the way, if you know this, then you know what Muhammad meant when he talked about Jihad. That is more important.

To be honest, i skipped over the questions about abrogation. I think you were wrong or if you were right maybe you were write on a couple of examples, but not all of them.

Let me explain by an example. Liberals like to listen to right-wing pundits day after day, hour after hour because they hate what they say and they want to hear one little mistake that they can exploit. But just because someone makes a mistake, that does not mean they are completely wrong. Einstein sometimes made mistakes in his proofs. That does not mean his theory is wrong. If someone makes a mistake, that means they are human. If someone exploits that mistake to prove a point, that means they taking unfair advantage of it.
 
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I don't know; you tell me. You seem to be desperately trying to convince everyone that Islam is bad, after all.

Wait a second.

You don't make any sense.

It was YOU who insists that I WANT to believe that Islam is bad.

You must have an idea why or you would not make such a claim.

I am not the one who says that I believe this because I want to. You do.

So why?
 
No, Bill.
It's why you don't answer any of the tough questions.

And why do you think that "all religions are evil" is a feel good statement? I wouldn't feel good about it.

it is a way of making one believe that there is nothing to be done and it is just part of the human condition and just move on.

For example, in Brazil people are convinced that corrouption is just part of poltiics (or they did when I was there) and so no one would lift a finger to stop it.
 
The Quran is very specific and not open to interpretation.

Both I and FireGarden have corrected you about this. Not only is there the concept of ta'wil, the Qur'an itself flat-out states that it contains ambiguous verses, called the Mutashabihat ayat.

The fact that the Qur'an requires interpretation is the entire reason that the many tafsir published over the centuries even exist.


http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html

So all Christians are also violent and cruel, right?
 
Oh, sorry about that. What do you think of this?

The Quran is very specific and not open to interpretation. There is no special magic way to interpret the evil and cruel demands in the Quran. You can find them for yourself.

I will post just a few. There are more. But these are enough.

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sa=X&e...gc.r_pw.&fp=171c51df8e105d20&biw=1013&bih=658

From:
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/cruelty/long.html



These are just a few. There are more. But I think this is enough

Now, if you somehow think that this is not evil or whatever, i wonder if you have the courage to consider that it is because you WANT to think this way?

I like you. I think you are entertaining. I feel like I am playing fetch. I throw the ball and see how it is going to be returned. I will throw it again when you respond. It is fun.

quote number one is funny, every single Muslim that tried to get me to belief in his fairytalebook seems to not belief in that verse. or interpret it differently. How come? why do they even do Dawah?
 
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