Here beachnut is falsely implying that "shure" is claiming a stand down order was issued. When in fact the opposite is true, when it comes to orders issued.
shure plagarized your post, way over yonder, and in that massive post of illogically poppycock -
Was there a stand down on 9-11? In a sense yes, but there is no evidence that a stand down order was issued. There would be no reason for VP Cheney to issue a stand down order, since he issuing a shoot down order, would have the same effect. I will proceed to show this as a fact along with the disturbing fact that the President of the United States, and the Secretary of Defense, both deserted their posts in a time of war. These two individuals who are the only ones authorized to issue shoot down orders of civilian aircraft, created the stand down, by deserting their posts, and then further disgraced themselves, and their offices, by lying to the American people.(use google to find this junk)
, no it is worse, you guys imply since it was not issued, it was issued. A step into nonsense and delusional logic.
Then beachnut falsely implies that any pilot in the USAF can kill as many civilians on commercial aircraft as he deems necessary. Lol! No, he doesn't need orders to kill civilians, babies, and defenseless women on a commercial aircraft. The 9-11 commission, not to mention common sense disagree with you.
Who gave the Passengers the order to take down 93 (this fact, that event, that action, destroys your can't shoot down without permission nonsense, and I would not shoot down, unless needed, I would stop them if I can - just like the Passengers on Flight 93 did). A possible outcome of attacking terrorists, crashing the plane. Who gave the Passengers authority? My oath of office is broad enough to cover stopping the terrorists from their goal. When others sit in front of the closed door, I open it, and enter. Go ahead, sit in front of the door, make up nonsense. You failed to make a point, you spread nonsense based on political biases.
In fact they were specifically told they had negative clearance to shoot. I can't post links so google the quote yourself from the 9-11 commission report....
Who said so? Funny, I have had negative clearance, and I still did what I wanted. How do you stop the guy with at the pointy end of the stick when you are on the other end of the radio? This is classic nonsense. You appear to think the military are bots controled by other bots.
The lies are from you, saying that we are suggesting a stand down order, and another lie, is you suggesting pilots didn't need shoot down orders, and even though told by their commander "negative clearance to shoot", they could still shoot as they pleased, and another lie is saying the VP is in the chain of command and part of the NCA.
The VP is part of the NCA, but then your google knowledge stops at hearsay sources. No problem, you just keep using your google sources. On 911 there was not time for the military in the field to worry about what the NCA was going to do, it was emergency time, field commanders can take action as needed based on their knowledge of the event at hand. If I find terrorists in a cockpit, I will harass that plane, and if the terrorists act like the ones who murdered on 93, then they will most likely panic and crash after I flame out their engines with my AB exhaust, and if not, I will make it hard to see etc, give hand signals to passengers, etc.
Your own document of this refutes you, along with the 9-11 commission. You never posted a link to your source of your quote and here is why...if you did we would have seen this.....
I ask who said he was not part of the chain. You make up lies and go on because you are upset the VP is part of the NCA, but you have no clue because you are using filtered sources, and I will not waste time posting sources for someone who thinks posting here is a waste of time, when you SPAM massive amounts of nonsense which showed up here anyway since you are too busy to waste time here making up illogical "stand down" because the VP said "shoot down" nonsense. All so you bash bush, and make up more nonsense.
I can't post links because I haven't wasted enough of my time here pointing out how dishonest you are, because I think it's boring and annoying.
Don't let that stop you from making up junk.
You will probably continue with your dishonesty and say the VP was in the NSC which is the same thing...it isn't. Or say the VP was lawfully "in their stead", He wasn't. He was never the commander in chief on 9-11.
Where is the NSC? There is a NSC? lol, you are so funny... you think military commanders and soldiers in the field need authority to do everything before they do it. 911 was an emergency, no need for orders, you can ask for help, but that is a sign of weakness... etc.
Confirmed again by the 9-11 commission.....
"in turn guides" SecDef? Who cares, there was no time to ask SecDef what do I do. Confirm away.
So you say I can't shoot down a threat to the USA? because of this? Your failed logic is showing and, hate to say it, debunks your nonsense completely and without hesitation or mental reservation. Nice try, but you are quote mining away, quote mining away, the more you make up nonsesnes, you the more you need to quote mine away...
Prior to 9/11, it was understood that an order to shoot down a commercial aircraft would have to be issued by the National Command Authority (a phrase used to describe the president and secretary of defense). Exercise planners also assumed that the aircraft would originate from outside the United States, allowing time to identify the target and scramble interceptors. The threat of terrorists hijacking commercial airliners within the United States-and using them as guided missiles-was not recognized by NORAD before 9/11
On 911, the need to get NCA permission was negated due to emergency and the very nature that the hijacked aircraft were not hijacked aircraft, but weapons of mass destruction. Your own NWO sources shot you down. Not to worry.
Here beachnut falsely tries to imply some connection to Pilots for no plane at the pentagon and CIT.....
No, I imply your logic is worse than Balsamo and CIT. Let me make it clear, your logic is worse than Balsamo and CIT.
When the only people who pay any attention to Pilots for No plane crash at the pentagon and CIT are fruitcakes and some people on a jref forum.
I am now a fruitcake, or related to being like one, chewy and sweet. I like it.
As fun as all that is, I find it much more interesting that the President got away with protecting foreign nationals who were involved in the 9-11 attacks that killed 3000 Americans. Conducting a cover up of those involved in the 9-11 attacks makes him a traitor who has committed treason, and is deliberately keeping important information on the attack of 9-11 from us. And it continues. You seem to support the government in keeping it's citizens in the dark as much as possible. At the same time the President was protecting his Saudi buddies the Administration was working with their Saudi buddies trying to convince Americans to attack Iraq. It's treason.
... from failed logic to silly political nonsense.
What does Saddam have to do with 911? Nothing. We were going to take out Saddam for shooting at our planes; remember the first gulf war? Saddam was shooting at me, he was not nice; but he has nothing more than indifference, took no action to keep terrorists from attacking us. We call this mission creep or something, where the topic is nuts who make up lies about 911, and then you are going off talking about other topics.
You blindly follow your leaders no matter where they lead you or what they tell you and keep from you. You like being manipulated by those in power.
What are you talking about?
When it comes to money, UBL knew funding for his end run, using our own planes against us, would be below the RADAR. It is common for Saudi people to get funding to live from Saudi people. Flight training would not raise flags, the United States is a great place to learn to fly before 911. Not sure how funding from Saudi sources proves the sources knew about the plot. Would be like you loaning money to your friend to buy stuff, then you learn McVeigh used your money to buy 4,000 pounds of fertilizer; after the bombing in OKC. If a Saudi knew of the plot and he is found out, he will loose his head. A Saudi shot at American troops during the gulf war; he was executed the next day. You are drifting into political nonsense.
Really?
I thought you were retired at that time.
MM
I was on active duty on 911, an active flier. I flew the on 912, and 913. I flew to OR, go ducks, to pick up someone from my unit stuck due to the no commercial plane ban. I was a liaison officer to CAP. CAP stood up and flew missions to move blood products and medical supplies that normally were flown by civilian airliners, which were grounded for days. I could have flown on 911, but I was >2000 miles away, and the plane I flew would not go faster than 200 mph... No stand down order was issued. Proved by the fact fighters were launched by the worker bees, no need for NCA.
The overall point I got from shure and jimd. Since the VP issued a shoot down order, there was a stand down order implied, so they can back in political junk. ... I thought 911 truth logic was the worse, then some political poppycock jumps out.
