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Old 21st February 2012, 12:56 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by Andrew Wiggin View Post
You'll need to crash a spaceship equipped with a molecular disruption device into it. It helps to have a fleet of such ships, in case there are planetary defenses, in which case most of the fleet can do a zerg rush as a distraction while one ship makes a suicide bombing run.
Great book, but I can tell you already think so.
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Old 21st February 2012, 01:00 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by autumn1971 View Post
I thought the center of a Mars was creamy nougat.
You know what would be like totally awesome? If the mantel was chocolate and the center was nougat. It would be like a big... big... MARS BAR!!!! OMG that would be so cool...
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Old 21st February 2012, 02:06 PM   #83
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What is it with you Earthlings?

358 Million years ago it was the Cephalopods, getting all cold eyed and gangsta.

65 Million years ago it was the Dinosaurs, gonna do the lizard stomp on us.

Now its the primates.

Lets see what do we have to work with in the "shut the monkeys up storage bin", which you call the asteroid belt.
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Old 21st February 2012, 03:46 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
I mean bring it to a dead stop. If you just slow it down, you'll put it in an elliptical orbit and it will still miss the sun. Technically, one could just slow it down enough that the apogee of the eliptical orbit was less than the radius of the sun (so Mars would still hit the sun, but at an angle), but that's so much slower than its current velocity that the difference between that slow and a dead stop aren't really important to us.
Actually, there is an amazing coincidence here. The energy required to boost all of Mars' matter to escape velocity is almost exactly equal to the energy required to stop it in its orbit (and let it fall into the sun). By "almost equal" I mean within 1 per cent.

Who'd have thought?
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Old 21st February 2012, 03:53 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by WhatRoughBeast View Post
Actually, there is an amazing coincidence here. The energy required to boost all of Mars' matter to escape velocity is almost exactly equal to the energy required to stop it in its orbit (and let it fall into the sun). By "almost equal" I mean within 1 per cent.

Who'd have thought?
Huh. Now we have a real dilemma on our hands. Since they cost about the same, which would be more awesome? I lean towards the sun myself, but it's a tough call.
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Old 21st February 2012, 04:00 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by Olowkow View Post
The Newtster beat you to it.
Surprisingly, that is one thing I like about N. Gingrich. I don't support all his ideas, but I believe they should be discussed before they are dismissed. He sometimes thinks too far outside the box, but Congress is tragically myopic and the government would do better to explore unconventional options before deciding on a plan.
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Old 21st February 2012, 04:02 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by WhatRoughBeast View Post
Actually, there is an amazing coincidence here. The energy required to boost all of Mars' matter to escape velocity is almost exactly equal to the energy required to stop it in its orbit (and let it fall into the sun). By "almost equal" I mean within 1 per cent.

Who'd have thought?
Shhhhhh. The numerologists might hear you.
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Old 21st February 2012, 04:04 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
That's more "Boiling Mars".
I don't think so. The Sun gives off microwaves and I remember quite distinctly the results of my putting an egg in a microwave oven. It most assuredly "blowed up." It blowed up real good.

Last edited by Ladewig; 21st February 2012 at 04:05 PM.
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Old 21st February 2012, 04:11 PM   #89
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How much antimatter would it take to make a bomb that would vaporize Mars?
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Old 21st February 2012, 04:58 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by jhunter1163 View Post
How much antimatter would it take to make a bomb that would vaporize Mars?
The joules from the previous posts divided by the speed of light squared.

Half that amount since an equal amount of normal matter will be converted.
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Old 21st February 2012, 05:45 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by Ladewig View Post
Surprisingly, that is one thing I like about N. Gingrich. I don't support all his ideas, but I believe they should be discussed before they are dismissed. He sometimes thinks too far outside the box, but Congress is tragically myopic and the government would do better to explore unconventional options before deciding on a plan.
I just never know when people here are joking, unless there is a smilie. Please put a smilie on that.
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Old 21st February 2012, 07:02 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by WhatRoughBeast View Post
Mars delenda est.


I just knew the Cato Institute had a hidden agenda.
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Old 21st February 2012, 07:09 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by phunk View Post
But I guess really the amount of energy is going to depend on how you blow it up. A bomb on the surface will require much more energy than one at the core.
If that bomb was carefully positioned we could hit Jupiter with a lot of debris. If carelessly positioned it could make for some interesting nights down here.

Looking far enough into the future this might be what passes for performance art.
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Old 21st February 2012, 07:13 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Huh. Now we have a real dilemma on our hands. Since they cost about the same, which would be more awesome? I lean towards the sun myself, but it's a tough call.
How close should we have it come by us? A neat trick would be for it to take our Moon with it - that would be awesome. It would make wrapping Mons Olympus in tinfoil look like child's play.
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Old 21st February 2012, 07:26 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by CapelDodger View Post
How close should we have it come by us? A neat trick would be for it to take our Moon with it - that would be awesome. It would make wrapping Mons Olympus in tinfoil look like child's play.
That close and we might be looking at some serious tidal problems, but even more importantly possibly large permanent perturbations to our orbit.
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Old 21st February 2012, 07:28 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
I suspect most people who want to blow up Mars would be more than happy with just creating a bunch of rubble that forms a new asteroid belt.
The main thing is not to vote for them.
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Old 21st February 2012, 07:33 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
That close and we might be looking at some serious tidal problems, but even more importantly possibly large permanent perturbations to our orbit.
Yup. One heck of a performance.

This does assume almost terminal boredom and effectively unlimited energy available.
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Old 21st February 2012, 07:39 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by CapelDodger View Post


I just knew the Cato Institute had a hidden agenda.
Oh, I say. Well done.
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Old 21st February 2012, 07:52 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by CapelDodger View Post
The main thing is not to vote for them.
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Old 21st February 2012, 08:02 PM   #100
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I think we are all in agreement?

If mars can be destroyed, it should be.
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Old 21st February 2012, 08:04 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by KingMerv00 View Post
The internet being what it is, you shouldn't be surprised that there is a website on the ways one could destroy Earth. Pretty sure it has energy estimates too. You just need to adjust for the fact Mars is about half as big and you are all set to go.
Not the Earth! That's where I keep all my stuff!!!
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Old 21st February 2012, 08:13 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by lopeyschools View Post
I think we are all in agreement?

If mars can be destroyed, it should be.

Nonsense.

(I live to prevent unanimity.)
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Old 21st February 2012, 08:36 PM   #103
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Tell the NeoCons there are terrorists with WMDs on Mars
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Old 21st February 2012, 08:40 PM   #104
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If we need to protect Earth from asteroids we need to test what we have to see if it works.

Have one of our nukes hit an asteroid on the 4th of July. Make sure it will be visible in the night sky from North America.



Go get the squirrel boy! say with a southern accent.
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Old 21st February 2012, 09:10 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by lopeyschools View Post
I think we are all in agreement?

If mars can be destroyed, it should be.
Only if it can be done in a cool way. Like, for instance, if you drop it into the sun; it's only cool if it comes out the other side.
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Old 21st February 2012, 09:14 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by WhatRoughBeast View Post
Only if it can be done in a cool way. Like, for instance, if you drop it into the sun; it's only cool if it comes out the other side.
It wouldn't come out the other side, but it would make one hell of a splash.
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Old 21st February 2012, 09:55 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by CapelDodger View Post
If that bomb was carefully positioned we could hit Jupiter with a lot of debris.
There would be a certain irony to that. Immanuel Velikovsky proved over 60 years ago that the planet Venus was ejected from the planet Jupiter.

jk
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Old 21st February 2012, 10:08 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by Complexity View Post
Nonsense.

(I live to prevent unanimity.)
One way or the other we're going to have to deal with the Martian problem so I say we fight them there so we don't have to fight them in our streets.
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Old 22nd February 2012, 12:49 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by tsig View Post
One way or the other we're going to have to deal with the Martian problem so I say we fight them there so we don't have to fight them in our streets.
Too late.
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Old 22nd February 2012, 06:58 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by tsig View Post
One way or the other we're going to have to deal with the Martian problem so I say we fight them there so we don't have to fight them in our streets.

I haven't decided which side I'm on.

If it comes down to Tom Cruise vs. The Tripods, I've got to side with The Tripods.
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Old 22nd February 2012, 08:00 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by Complexity View Post
I haven't decided which side I'm on.

If it comes down to Tom Cruise vs. The Tripods, I've got to side with The Tripods.
May I ask why? Something tells me your reason will be most interesting.
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Old 22nd February 2012, 09:54 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by h.g.Whiz View Post
May I ask why? Something tells me your reason will be most interesting.

(geez! - the pressure is excruciating!)

Non-serious answer*: Cruise used to be cute, then he opened his mouth. Cuteness betrayed!

Also, I really like the way that Orson Welles played with peoples' heads. People haven't gotten any smarter - that could sooooo happen again.

Serious answer: It depends on what the martians would do with earth once they conquered/obliterated humans.

I don't necessarily value human life over other life (more than cockroaches, less than cats; varies by individual**) and I have a good sense of the ill effects on other life of human life (if it continues as it has, which I regard as very likely).

Without any foreknowledge of the character and purposes of martians***, I might feel compelled to oppose the martians, but I would certainly take care of some particularly annoying humans in the process.

* Actually, I'm serious about both of these answers, too.

** Many people are worse than cockroaches, while a very few are better than some cats.

*** Particularly with regard towards their policy on cats.
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Old 22nd February 2012, 10:12 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by KingMerv00 View Post
The internet being what it is, you shouldn't be surprised that there is a website on the ways one could destroy Earth. Pretty sure it has energy estimates too. You just need to adjust for the fact Mars is about half as big and you are all set to go.
In The Forge of God, Greg Bear estimates a 100 million ton nugget of neutron star colliding with a similar nugget of anti-neutrons at the center of the Earth would impart sufficient energy to cause the Earth to blow apart AKA make its mass blow itself out of its common gravity well.

IIRC, curiously that is also about how much mass the sun converts to energy every second, by one account I have read. Seems a bit high to me.
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Old 22nd February 2012, 03:37 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by WhatRoughBeast View Post
Actually, there is an amazing coincidence here. The energy required to boost all of Mars' matter to escape velocity is almost exactly equal to the energy required to stop it in its orbit (and let it fall into the sun). By "almost equal" I mean within 1 per cent.
Ack! Who let me make that claim, anyway? Why don't you people check on claims like this?

I just redid my calculations, and it seems that "mistakes were made".

Actually, to stop Mars in its orbit takes nearly 40 times as much energy as blowing it up.

Sorry, all.

Well, at least we don't have to worry about the numerologists.
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Old 22nd February 2012, 03:58 PM   #115
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Over 100 responses, and no one has mentioned Alexander Abian?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Abian
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Old 22nd February 2012, 05:08 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by Beerina View Post
In The Forge of God, Greg Bear estimates a 100 million ton nugget of neutron star colliding with a similar nugget of anti-neutrons at the center of the Earth would impart sufficient energy to cause the Earth to blow apart AKA make its mass blow itself out of its common gravity well.

IIRC, curiously that is also about how much mass the sun converts to energy every second, by one account I have read. Seems a bit high to me.

I remember The Forge of God. The font used on the cover (possibly only that used on the spine) caused me to read it as "The Force of Goo".
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Old 22nd February 2012, 11:05 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by h.g.Whiz View Post
May I ask why? Something tells me your reason will be most interesting.
My answer would be that I always root for the underdog. Tom Cruise is a certified Level 8 Operating Theatan. He has control of time, space, matter, life, death, health and a host of other things that can be controlled by the mind of an OT VIII.
.


although apparently dignity is not on that list.

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Old 13th January 2013, 04:20 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by KingMerv00 View Post
The internet being what it is, you shouldn't be surprised that there is a website on the ways one could destroy Earth. Pretty sure it has energy estimates too. You just need to adjust for the fact Mars is about half as big and you are all set to go.
Thanks for the link.
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