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Old 11th March 2012, 11:29 AM   #521
calebprime
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In G, it would be a B flat if minor, or a B if major.

If we meant G harmonic major, the scale would be:

G,A,B,C,D,Eb,F#, (G)

The "third mode" of this would be B phrygian flat 4 -- a scale not found in common jazz parlance. You'd hafta spell it out.

The "flat 4" is somewhat odd, because in 12-tone equal temperament, it would be the same pitch as the major 3rd: Eb = D#.

The major third is very close to the 5th partial* of the overtone series, so we don't tend to hear it as "flat 4", except in context.

But the "altered" scale (or Locrian b4) is pretty common.

B altered: B,C,D,Eb,F,G,A

which is the same as F Lydian b7.

Your augmented triad doesn't occur in the major scale, only harmonic minor, harmonic major, and melodic minor.

I, too, like cake.

eta: Oh, and I feel it ought to be said that a C (or 4th degree in G, or "natural" 11th) clashes with a G major 7th chord, because a high C is not in the overtone series of G, and it clashes against the B of the G major 7th chord (G,B,D,F#). It's called an "avoid" note at Bezerklee.

========================

* the "American" 5th partial, or 5:1, not the deeply stoopid British habit of calling 2:1 the "first partial". Those poor Brits, with their quaint quavers.
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Last edited by calebprime; 11th March 2012 at 11:41 AM. Reason: mistakes, dammit!
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Old 11th March 2012, 11:54 AM   #522
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Originally Posted by calebprime View Post
In G, it would be a B flat if minor, or a B if major.

If we meant G harmonic major, the scale would be:

G,A,B,C,D,Eb,F#, (G)

The "third mode" of this would be B phrygian flat 4 -- a scale not found in common jazz parlance. You'd hafta spell it out.
In between or blue.
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Old 11th March 2012, 11:57 AM   #523
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Originally Posted by NavySEAL View Post
"Don't need them rules. Of course you gots to know them rules first."

Right on, now what is scale degree 3 please?
Key?

ETA Post 521 does a better job than I could express. Kind of humbling actually.

Last edited by Resume; 11th March 2012 at 12:18 PM.
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Old 11th March 2012, 12:21 PM   #524
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The 3rd mode of the harmonic major is my favorite jazz scale, it's a hybrid/alternate and close cousin of the altered scale.

So, in the key Calebprime's example, G harmonic major is
G,A,B,C,D,Eb,F#, (G)

The 3rd mode merely takes those same notes and starts them on the 3rd note, so we have

B C D Eb F# G A as the 3rd mode of the harmonic major, used on a B7 chord

Note that the first 4 notes are the same as the altered scale, as well as a half-whole diminished scale. The differences are:

3rd mode of harmonic major: F#, G, A (= 5, b6, b7)
altered scale: F, G, A (= b5, b6, b7)
half-whole diminished: F, F#, G#, A (= b5, 5, 6, b7)

The half-whole diminished scale has one extra note than modes figured from a tonal scale (major or minor scale).

The scale is just one combination of acceptable extensions in jazz (5, b6, b7) on a dominant 7th chord. The derivation of this scale as a mode of the harmonic major is a coincidence.

Might be time for a new thread if there is more discussion about the harmonic major.
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Old 11th March 2012, 01:14 PM   #525
calebprime
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Originally Posted by Paul2 View Post
The 3rd mode of the harmonic major is my favorite jazz scale, it's a hybrid/alternate and close cousin of the altered scale.

So, in the key Calebprime's example, G harmonic major is
G,A,B,C,D,Eb,F#, (G)

The 3rd mode merely takes those same notes and starts them on the 3rd note, so we have

B C D Eb F# G A as the 3rd mode of the harmonic major, used on a B7 chord

Note that the first 4 notes are the same as the altered scale, as well as a half-whole diminished scale. The differences are:

3rd mode of harmonic major: F#, G, A (= 5, b6, b7)
altered scale: F, G, A (= b5, b6, b7)
half-whole diminished: F, F#, G#, A (= b5, 5, 6, b7)

The half-whole diminished scale has one extra note than modes figured from a tonal scale (major or minor scale).

The scale is just one combination of acceptable extensions in jazz (5, b6, b7) on a dominant 7th chord. The derivation of this scale as a mode of the harmonic major is a coincidence.

Might be time for a new thread if there is more discussion about the harmonic major.
Well said, sir, and I think that this is a fresher or less common scale to play over a Dom 7 than the others. I love the modes of harmonic major/minor.

And now, we return you to your regular topic.
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Old 12th March 2012, 05:46 AM   #526
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Originally Posted by Paul2 View Post
The derivation of this scale as a mode of the harmonic major is a coincidence.
You don't think intergalactic super-beings implanted humans with the visceral ability to hear the universe singing... after their soul had transcended?

Anyhoo, please either continue or create a new thread. Very interesting.
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Old 12th March 2012, 06:27 AM   #527
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Originally Posted by Mashuna View Post
It's around 24 mins in to this interview
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


To summarise, it's in the context of talking about Pascal's wager, and saying that if, hypothetically, there is life after death (which he's strongly convinced there isn't), then no human knows what the requirements for qualification are (if there are any).
Thank you muchly for the video since it was not provided in the first instance.

There doesn't seem to be a direct quote, at least in that video so Porterboy must have been paraphrasing (without stating as much) and it annoys me when people cherry pick and paraphrase people like Hitchens in order to veil their unfounded belief and intentions...

Originally Posted by Porterboy View Post
Hitchens in his poignant last interview with Jeremy Paxman said that he finds it unlikely that there could be an Afterlife, but he also said "I love surprises". What's more... he added something more that I profoundly agree with: He said that if there is any kind of Life-After-Death then the religions are not in any way related to it.
... if you get my meaning.

Porterboy seems to be implying that Hitchens may believe in some kind of life after death but that religion has nothing to do with it. Hitchens makes it pretty clear that he doubts that there is any life after death at all, religious or otherwise and that if there is, there is certainly no evidence of it.

A sloppy and ignorant paraphrase of an intelligent person with the deliberate intent to mislead might be one way of putting it, though Porterboy has every opportunity to prove me wrong.

Last edited by Krikkiter; 12th March 2012 at 06:29 AM.
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