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Old 31st March 2012, 12:18 AM   #41
Pixel42
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Originally Posted by jojonete View Post
I'm not sure why nobody has asked these questions directly yet
I can't answer for anyone else, but in my case it's because it's abundantly clear to me that flabio doesn't have the slightest clue what the answers are.

From the video he has posted it's clear he hasn't even grasped what the ideomotor effect is yet, and why a demonstration of it is not a demonstration that dowsing is capable of detecting underground water/pipes/cables whose position the dowser doesn't already know - which is what he would need to demonstrate to win the MDC.
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Old 31st March 2012, 03:15 AM   #42
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Nope, it's not the ideomotor effect at all. There's no time or room for make believe in my line of work.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideomotor_effect
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Old 31st March 2012, 03:36 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by flabio View Post
Nope, it's not the ideomotor effect at all.
The only way you'd know that is if you'd done a double blind test. Please describe the protocol you used to do one, and how much better than chance the results you obtained were.

Quote:
There's no time or room for make believe in my line of work.
There is nothing make believe about the ideomotor effect. It's reality is well documented.

Quote:
Yep, that's the one. Here's another good article about it:

http://www.quackwatch.org/01Quackery...ideomotor.html
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Old 31st March 2012, 04:23 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by flabio View Post
... I honestly thought there would have long since been a scientific explanation on how dowsing works by now.
There is.
Originally Posted by flabio View Post
Really, there's nothing to it.
"Science" came to the same conclusion as you.
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Old 31st March 2012, 09:18 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by flabio View Post
Neat, my very own thread. Thanks guys!!!



Do you think I'd have gone through the trouble of making this YT video today if I were merely joking around?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhSDe...ature=youtu.be
I will not just take your word that there are actual gas lines where you say they are. You may be right, you may be wrong. Without verification of the gas line being there, this video does not prove very much.

Have you thought about doing a self-test where the results can be verified, e.g. the one I proposed earlier?
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Old 31st March 2012, 01:40 PM   #46
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From that video you have GOT to be a troll. What was that supposed to prove??
I think I will wait behind a tree for you. Guess what I will yell.
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Old 31st March 2012, 04:54 PM   #47
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From the Wikipedia page for Troll

"In Old Norse sources, beings described as trolls dwell in isolated rocks, mountains, or caves, live together in small family units, and are rarely helpful to human beings."

An almost text book description of the second video!
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Old 31st March 2012, 07:10 PM   #48
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What worries me is that "he does this all the time at work" and that he "is going to redowse these lines and put the flags back in the earth".

So

Somewhere there are yellow flags stuck in a field showing where the gas lines are (or maybe not)

The San Bruno, CA gas line explosion is only a couple hours from where I live, many people were killed and a neighborhood burned to the ground. We take this kind of thing very seriously.

The idea that there is someone out there deciding where gas lines are by dowsing makes me uncomfortable. The idea that he said his co-workers also think this is okay makes me frightened.

Wonder if Tim Farley has any dowsing horror stories on his www.whatstheharm.net site?
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Old 31st March 2012, 07:13 PM   #49
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Apparently Tim does have something on dowsing. No gas explosions.

http://whatstheharm.net/dowsing.html
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Old 1st April 2012, 12:16 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Matty1973 View Post
I don't know if Flabio is a troll or not, but in his other video he explains how it is funny to hide behind a rock in the park and shout "RETARD" at tourists as they pass by.
Jeez - if Flabio moved in next to me I'd have my house on the market the very next day. Weird!

Originally Posted by flabio View Post
Nope, it's not the ideomotor effect at all. There's no time or room for make believe in my line of work.

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Old 1st April 2012, 03:36 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by jojonete View Post
I'm not sure why nobody has asked these questions directly yet
Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
I can't answer for anyone else, but in my case it's because it's abundantly clear to me that flabio doesn't have the slightest clue what the answers are.
I thought posting the questions would be a good idea even if he had no idea about the answers.
In part, the goal of the questions was to find out if flabio is a troll. If he were, he'd just ignore the questions and go on with some random gibberish. If he's not, he'd do a very good effort to answer the questions.

If he did honestly try to answer the questions, that would (deservedly) greatly reduce trolling accusations on him. Furthermore, the answers could be used to design a protocol or, in the case the answer is "no idea", to tell flabio to go on testing until he got answers.

Flabio's answer was "Nope, it's not the ideomotor effect at all", which counts quite well as ignoring the questions and going on with random gibberish. Now I'll add myself to the "obvious troll" club and happily go to sleep (it's 12:36 AM here).

Last edited by jojonete; 1st April 2012 at 03:38 PM. Reason: join "my" with "self" so that it says "myself" instead of "my self". Easy, right?
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Old 1st April 2012, 04:03 PM   #52
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Being deemed a troll by a bunch of trolls is really quite laughable to say the least. If I wanted to troll or engage in a flame war I'd do that on an appropriate troll board.

Anyways...


I've found someone who is willing to put me through the blindfold test, and should have YT vids up in the next couple of days. The fella who's agreed to test me also has no faith in my ability to dowse what so ever, not unlike everyone here. This should be good, do stay tuned...
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Old 1st April 2012, 04:07 PM   #53
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Good for you. I hope it inspires you to actually apply for a one of the challenges and earn yourself a big cash prize. Otherwise this thread should probably be moved out of the challenges subforum and to the general skepticism subforum.

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Old 1st April 2012, 05:34 PM   #54
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Well that was compelling. Totally unequivocal proof of something or other.

I thought you were supposed to find something you didn't know where it was or have I missed the point?

Next time I put my car keys on the table I'll dowse for them there then.
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Old 1st April 2012, 09:08 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by flabio View Post
I've found someone who is willing to put me through the blindfold test, and should have YT vids up in the next couple of days. The fella who's agreed to test me also has no faith in my ability to dowse what so ever, not unlike everyone here. This should be good, do stay tuned...
Meantime here's a prediction ($1m prize if correct?!): somehow I think we're going to be disappointed.
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Old 1st April 2012, 11:34 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by flabio View Post
I've found someone who is willing to put me through the blindfold test
If you mean a double blinded test, then good. As has been pointed out until you have successfully located something whose position you did not already know, under circumstances where all sources of information other than dowsing have been carefully and methodically eliminated, you yourself cannot know for sure whether or not dowsing works.

It might be a good idea to post the test protocol you intend to use here first. There wouldn't be much point in you going to the time and trouble of doing a test if there are fundamental flaws in it, would there?
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Old 1st April 2012, 11:42 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by flabio View Post

I've found someone who is willing to put me through the blindfold test, and should have YT vids up in the next couple of days. The fella who's agreed to test me also has no faith in my ability to dowse what so ever, not unlike everyone here. This should be good, do stay tuned...
As Pixel42 notes, a blindfold test is not the same as a double blind test. Could you clarify what you're actually going to be doing in your test?
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Old 1st April 2012, 11:50 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by flabio View Post
I've found someone who is willing to put me through the blindfold test ...
If Flabio is confusing 'blindfold' test with 'blind' test I think we could be here for the long haul!
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Old 1st April 2012, 11:53 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Mashuna View Post
As Pixel42 notes, a blindfold test is not the same as a double blind test. Could you clarify what you're actually going to be doing in your test?
I'm not sure a double-blind test is necessary, or even practicable. A simple blind test (but definitely not 'blindfold' test) should suffice.
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Old 2nd April 2012, 12:20 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by Southwind17 View Post
I'm not sure a double-blind test is necessary, or even practicable. A simple blind test (but definitely not 'blindfold' test) should suffice.
It's essential that no-one who knows where whatever it is flabio is dowsing for is buried is present during the test, as they can inadvertantly give him clues with their body language. So the test must be double blinded: neither the testee nor the observers can know where the targets are.

ETA: http://www.skepdic.com/control.html

Quote:
A double-blind test is a control group test where neither the evaluator nor the subject knows which items are controls
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Old 2nd April 2012, 12:33 AM   #61
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I was thinking a blindfold and a duct taped full face motorcycle helmet might be convincing. And like I've said before, I've only ever dowsed service lines before, so that's what I intend to stick with...
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Old 2nd April 2012, 12:44 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by flabio View Post
I was thinking a blindfold and a duct taped full face motorcycle helmet might be convincing.
You need to demonstrate that you can tell the difference between ground which has a service line running under it from ground which does not, when there are no visual clues as to which is which, significantly more often than would be expected by chance.

Usually this is done by someone setting up an area with several marked spots, some of which have had whatever it is the dowser thinks he can detect buried in them and some of which have not, and then leaving whilst the dowser dowses each spot and identifies which is which. As long as there is no visual clue which is which, the dowser does not need to be blindfolded whilst he does this. As most dowsers need to see how their dowsing rods are reacting to determine whether they are getting a positive response, it's usually impractical to blindfold them.

Once the dowser has marked which spots he thinks are which, the guy who set it up returns and tells him if he is right.

The odds of getting the right spot by chance can be calculated beforehand. For example if there are 10 spots only one of which has the dowsing target buried in it, the chances of finding the right spot by chance is 1:10. For the JREF preliminary test, applicants are typically required to beat chance odds of 1:1000.
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Old 2nd April 2012, 01:56 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by flabio View Post
I was thinking a blindfold and a duct taped full face motorcycle helmet might be convincing. And like I've said before, I've only ever dowsed service lines before, so that's what I intend to stick with...
A double-blind test would be convincing, you being blindfolded would not.
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Old 2nd April 2012, 05:21 AM   #64
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flabio, it sounds like you have no clue what a double-blind test is. Here is a hint: it has nothing to do with a blindfold.

Double-blind Test
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Old 2nd April 2012, 11:31 AM   #65
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I am looking forward to flabio's next You Tube video, in which he points sticks at yellow flags while wearing two blindfolds.
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Old 2nd April 2012, 12:57 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
I am looking forward to flabio's next You Tube video, in which he points sticks at yellow flags while wearing two blindfolds.
Yeah. Wearing two blindfolds while dowsing gives a whole new meaning to double-blind testing.
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Old 2nd April 2012, 01:08 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Dumb All Over View Post
Yeah. Wearing two blindfolds while dowsing gives a whole new meaning to double-blind testing.
Yes, put one blindfold on each dowsing rod - that would prove the rods are not reacting because they see the flags.
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Old 2nd April 2012, 06:04 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
It's essential that no-one who knows where whatever it is flabio is dowsing for is buried is present during the test, as they can inadvertantly give him clues with their body language. So the test must be double blinded: neither the testee nor the observers can know where the targets are.
I agree, but I don't consider that the test setters not being present is the essence of a double-blind test. A truly double-blind test would require that nobody knows where the burial site is/are, whether present at the testing or not. And that was my point - that's not practicable - hence a simple blind test, albeit with the test setters then vacating the test area.
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Old 2nd April 2012, 06:08 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Dumb All Over View Post
Yeah. Wearing two blindfolds while dowsing gives a whole new meaning to double-blind testing.
Which is what Flabio means by wearing a blindfold and a duct-taped full-face crash helmet, I think!

As I wrote earlier, we could be here for the long haul!
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Old 2nd April 2012, 10:13 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Southwind17 View Post
Which is what Flabio means by wearing a blindfold and a duct-taped full-face crash helmet, I think!

As I wrote earlier, we could be here for the long haul!
Very long haul as he has now been quietly suspended.
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Old 3rd April 2012, 12:01 AM   #71
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Well, that wasn't fun while it lasted. But if Flabio is still reading this thread (and we know he is), and he's at all serious about applying for a cash prize; he's got all the info he needs.

Ward
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Old 3rd April 2012, 02:35 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
Very long haul as he has now been quietly suspended.
He is now hanging from something?
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Old 3rd April 2012, 03:03 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Lanzy View Post
He is now hanging from something?
Some rods.
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Old 3rd April 2012, 10:55 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Saule

Some rods.
Blindfolded.
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Old 4th April 2012, 04:04 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by realpaladin View Post
Blindfolded.
Double layered.
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Old 4th April 2012, 02:10 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by Lanzy View Post
He is now hanging from something?
We will never know as he probably will not come back. Not as Flabio anyway.
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Old 5th April 2012, 09:35 PM   #77
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Thumbs down

Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
Very long haul as he has now been quietly suspended.
Why was he suspended? This was just starting to get fun.

I admit I was unable to tell if he was "trolling" or was serious.
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Old 5th April 2012, 10:04 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by johnnyawe View Post
Why was he suspended? This was just starting to get fun.

I admit I was unable to tell if he was "trolling" or was serious.
The answer is in this thread.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=233532
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Old 12th April 2012, 02:41 AM   #79
Lamuella
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Originally Posted by Southwind17 View Post
I'm not sure a double-blind test is necessary, or even practicable. A simple blind test (but definitely not 'blindfold' test) should suffice.
I could think of a few ways you could make a practical double blind test, depending on what Flabio claims he can dowse for.
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Old 12th April 2012, 06:01 AM   #80
Southwind17
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Originally Posted by Lamuella View Post
I could think of a few ways you could make a practical double blind test, depending on what Flabio claims he can dowse for.
I'm sure most of us could. Still unnecessary, though.
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