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Tags Germany history , Hermann Rauschning , Nazi Germany history , Wolfgang Hanel

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Old 1st May 2012, 10:32 PM   #1
Mondial
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Did Hitler Really Say That?

Historian Wolfgang Haenel has revealed that a book HITLER SPEAKS (aka THE VOICE OF DESTRUCTION) which since it came out in the 1930's had been widely touted as being the secret plans of the nazi leader is nothing but a pack of lies made up by a former disgruntled nazi party official. www.ihr.org/jhr/v04/v04p378_Weber.html www.ihr.org/jhr/v06/v06p499_Weber.html
The quotes from the book which have been used by historians for decades are either outright fabrications or they come from other people.
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Old 1st May 2012, 10:52 PM   #2
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The Institute for Historical Review is a holocaust denying hate site populated by scum like David Irving. If it said the sky was blue, I'd race outside to check.
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Old 1st May 2012, 11:02 PM   #3
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermann..._Hitler_Speaks

ETA:
Quote:
its credibility would later be severely criticised, and it now has no standing as an accurate document on Hitler for historians
I hope you are not going to go on to suggest that this proves that Hitler wasn't really so bad?
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Old 2nd May 2012, 12:27 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermann..._Hitler_Speaks

ETA:


I hope you are not going to go on to suggest that this proves that Hitler wasn't really so bad?
What else would be doing if you cite IHR?
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Old 2nd May 2012, 12:41 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
The Institute for Historical Review is a holocaust denying hate site populated by scum like David Irving. If it said the sky was blue, I'd race outside to check.
That bears repeating.

The most authoritative work on this issue seems to be that of the Swiss Wolfgang Hänel, who first presented his findings at a conference of the revisionist association "Zeitgeschichtliche Forschungsstelle Ingolstadt". Hänel himself seems, however, not to be a "revisionist" but a bona fide historian.

And it also bears repeating here that Ian Kershaw has said he hasn't used a quote from this book for his Hitler biography.
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Old 2nd May 2012, 01:21 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Mondial View Post
Historian Wolfgang Haenel has revealed that a book HITLER SPEAKS (aka THE VOICE OF DESTRUCTION) which since it came out in the 1930's had been widely touted as being the secret plans of the nazi leader is nothing but a pack of lies made up by a former disgruntled nazi party official. www.ihr.org/jhr/v04/v04p378_Weber.html www.ihr.org/jhr/v06/v06p499_Weber.html
The quotes from the book which have been used by historians for decades are either outright fabrications or they come from other people.
The reason for posting this thread is to point out that too many "historians", journalists and politicians use quotes from HITLER SPEAKS as if they are genuine when they are not.
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Old 2nd May 2012, 01:23 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Mondial View Post
The reason for posting this thread is to point out that too many "historians", journalists and politicians use quotes from HITLER SPEAKS as if they are genuine when they are not.
According to whom? Did you read puppycow's post?
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Old 2nd May 2012, 01:34 AM   #8
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Not to mention the terrible quiproquo on Hitler's Mein Kunst.
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Old 2nd May 2012, 01:34 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Mondial View Post
The reason for posting this thread is to point out that too many "historians", journalists and politicians use quotes from HITLER SPEAKS as if they are genuine when they are not.
Evidence?
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Old 2nd May 2012, 02:12 AM   #10
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While the book may well be partly or totally a fabrication, I can't help but feel that this thread's purpose is nothing more or less than a round about way of defending Herr Hitler.
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Old 2nd May 2012, 02:16 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by BazBear View Post
While the book may well be partly or totally a fabrication, I can't help but feel that this thread's purpose is nothing more or less than a round about way of defending Herr Hitler.
Of course it is. You only need to look at the posting history of the OP.
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Old 2nd May 2012, 03:01 AM   #12
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It's amazing how many of these defend-the-nazis-or-support-this-woo threads start with otherwise-benign-but-obvious-opener posts.
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Old 2nd May 2012, 03:24 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Of course it is. You only need to look at the posting history of the OP.
Yes, I seen Mondial's posts over in CTville. That's exactly why I said that. I probably should have ended with a to convey the slightly sarcastic tone I intended.
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Old 2nd May 2012, 03:45 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Mondial View Post
The reason for posting this thread is to point out that too many "historians", journalists and politicians use quotes from HITLER SPEAKS as if they are genuine when they are not.
May I suggest that you gather the true inner thoughts of Hitler and turn them into a musical?

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Old 2nd May 2012, 04:20 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
The Institute for Historical Review is a holocaust denying hate site populated by scum like David Irving. If it said the sky was blue, I'd race outside to check.
They would never say that, because Rayleigh was a Jew.
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Old 3rd May 2012, 10:17 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Mondial View Post
Historian Wolfgang Haenel has revealed that a book HITLER SPEAKS (aka THE VOICE OF DESTRUCTION) which since it came out in the 1930's had been widely touted as being the secret plans of the nazi leader is nothing but a pack of lies made up by a former disgruntled nazi party official. www.ihr.org/jhr/v04/v04p378_Weber.html www.ihr.org/jhr/v06/v06p499_Weber.html
The quotes from the book which have been used by historians for decades are either outright fabrications or they come from other people.
The entire book by Hermann Rauschning THE VOICE OF DESTRUCTION is available here www.jrbooksonline.com/Voice%20of%20Destruction.htm
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Old 3rd May 2012, 10:24 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by timhau View Post
May I suggest that you gather the true inner thoughts of Hitler and turn them into a musical?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-gyO9I3T8Ey...ime4hitler.jpg
You mean, you DON'T think that Hitler could dance the pants off of Churchill?

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Old 3rd May 2012, 10:27 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Laeke View Post
Not to mention the terrible quiproquo on Hitler's Mein Kunst.
"My Art"?
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Old 3rd May 2012, 10:29 AM   #19
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Does anyone else think the thread title would be a great name for a game show?
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Old 3rd May 2012, 10:44 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Mondial View Post
The entire book by Hermann Rauschning THE VOICE OF DESTRUCTION is available here www.jrbooksonline.com/Voice%20of%20Destruction.htm
Also available (among many other similar works) is
Quote:
BOLSHEVISM FROM MOSES TO LENIN by Dietrich Eckart, friend and confidant of AH from 1919-23; AH dedicated Mein Kampf to him
How touching!

You really have some strange sources of information. The list of books available at that site could be mistaken for the catalogue from an SS library.
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Old 3rd May 2012, 10:56 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
You really have some strange sources of information. The list of books available at that site could be mistaken for the catalogue from an SS library.
What do you mean "could be mistaken for"?
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Old 3rd May 2012, 11:50 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Mondial View Post
The entire book by Hermann Rauschning THE VOICE OF DESTRUCTION is available here www.jrbooksonline.com/Voice%20of%20Destruction.htm
The original article claims that the entire book is a hoax and focuses on this quote:

Quote:
We must be brutal. We must regain a clear conscience about brutality. Only then can we drive out the tenderness from our people ... Do I propose to exterminate entire nationalities? Yes, it will add up to that ... I naturally have the right to destroy millions of men of inferior races who increase like vermin ... Yes, we are barbarians. We want to be barbarians. It is an honorable title.
I don't know whether it's the translation at fault but it's similar yet not identical in form and substance to other authentic Hitler quotes such as:

Quote:
A time will come, even though in the distant future, when there can be only two alternatives: Either the world will be ruled according to our modern concept of democracy, and then every decision will be in favour of the numerically stronger races; or the world will be governed by the law of natural distribution of power, and then those nations will be victorious who are of more brutal will and are not the nations who have practised self-denial.
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Old 3rd May 2012, 12:49 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by aggle-rithm View Post
Does anyone else think the thread title would be a great name for a game show?
May I present Garfunkel and Oates' "Who Said It: Kanye or Hitler?"
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I AGREE
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Old 8th May 2012, 04:45 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by timhau View Post
May I suggest that you gather the true inner thoughts of Hitler and turn them into a musical?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-gyO9I3T8Ey...ime4hitler.jpg
I see Jews.
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Old 8th May 2012, 08:59 AM   #25
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come on leave the guy alone already, he liked dogs and could draw a really good house
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Old 8th May 2012, 12:01 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by MaGZ View Post
I see Jews.
Honey, you can see Jews with your eyes closed.
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Old 8th May 2012, 12:07 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by MaGZ View Post
I see Jews.
Actually there is only one Jew in that shot
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Old 8th May 2012, 12:13 PM   #28
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I have a question - If I drew information using only Hitler's public speeches from 1933 to 1939 would I draw a different conclusion to The Voice of Destruction

For me the answer is no
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Old 8th May 2012, 01:22 PM   #29
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Hitler... there was a painter! He could paint an entire apartment in ONE afternoon! TWO coats!
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Old 8th May 2012, 01:36 PM   #30
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Did Ceasar really say that?
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Old 8th May 2012, 02:07 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Saule View Post
Did Ceasar really say that?
What? 'Infamy, Infamy, They've all got it infamy?

Well, according to Talbot Rothwell he did, and who am I to argue with him?
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Old 8th May 2012, 02:11 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by MaGZ View Post
I see Jews.
All the time. They're everywhere.

Nice try, but no. That isn't Sixth Sense. And FYI, it's 'dead people', not 'Jews'.
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Old 8th May 2012, 05:47 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by timhau View Post
All the time. They're everywhere.

Nice try, but no. That isn't Sixth Sense. And FYI, it's 'dead people', not 'Jews'.
Well, Hitler was basically trying to convert the latter into the former. So there's that.
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Old 8th May 2012, 06:51 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by MG1962 View Post
Actually there is only one Jew in that shot
Two.

Zero Mostel and Gene Wilder are both Jewish.
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Old 8th May 2012, 11:12 PM   #35
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I like how MagZ is trying to sell us an almost thirty year old book by a mainstream historian as something new and allimportant.
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Old 9th May 2012, 12:40 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Moss View Post
I like how MagZ is trying to sell us an almost thirty year old book by a mainstream historian as something new and allimportant.
Huh? Did I miss something? The only thing I see from MagZ in this thread is a joke about the picture from The Producers. Which is well over 30 years old, but he didn't seem to be trying to sell it to us. Did you mean someone else, or is this a reference to another thread?
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Old 9th May 2012, 12:59 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by kedo1981 View Post
come on leave the guy alone already, he liked dogs and could draw a really good house
No, no, please no. Now you've opened the door for applecorped.
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Old 9th May 2012, 09:35 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by xtifr View Post
Huh? Did I miss something? The only thing I see from MagZ in this thread is a joke about the picture from The Producers. Which is well over 30 years old, but he didn't seem to be trying to sell it to us. Did you mean someone else, or is this a reference to another thread?
Sorry, for some reason I confused Mondial and MagZ.
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Old 9th May 2012, 09:50 AM   #39
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Old 9th May 2012, 01:20 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Moss View Post
Sorry, for some reason I confused Mondial and MagZ.

Well, in your defence, that's a distinction without much of a difference.
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