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20th June 2012, 06:29 PM | #161 |
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20th June 2012, 06:29 PM | #162 |
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That was fun the first time. Thanks , Castro!
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20th June 2012, 06:40 PM | #163 |
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You're welcome Tom. Those threads can be pretty boring sometimes, can't they?
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20th June 2012, 06:42 PM | #164 |
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20th June 2012, 06:45 PM | #165 |
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Definitely
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20th June 2012, 07:37 PM | #166 |
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Ontario,
Are you going to respond to post 153? |
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20th June 2012, 10:29 PM | #167 |
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I'll be interested in seeing some peer review and error analysis of Prof. Konczak's findings. His credentials as a kinesiologist are certainly impressive, as a simple yahoo search shows.
This page from 2009 briefly discusses Konczak's PGF work and conclusions. I can't copy any text for the edification of the forum, but the gist is that Konczak motion-captures an athlete and concludes that "the motions could not have been made by a human". On-hand, NYU primatologist E. Sarmiento pronounces that the gait does not match that of an ape or a human. We can see in this video (thanks, Castro!), from 29:00, that the subject in the ape suit mimicks "Patty"'s compliant gait almost perfectly. The "almost" consists in idiosyncrasies that are endemic to individual human beings. We also see Tube and a guy named Tom Pate doing it in still photographs here. Are Konczak and Sarmiento unfamiliar with the compliant gait? (I use it myself when I descend the steep sidewalk north of my house, or when carrying heavy boxes/loads at work.) Are they assuming that vertical femurs (as opposed to ground-plane parallel) are the sole mode of locomotion that can be classified as "human"? I want to see their data... and better yet, get a second opinion from another kinesiologist and primatologist who don't show up semi-regularly on bigfoot shows (as Sarmiento does). |
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20th June 2012, 10:38 PM | #168 |
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Want to see someone do the "patty" walk? You can film yourself doing it real easy. Put on some swim flippers and take long steps and film yourself doing it. Bigfeet make for bigfoot walk.
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21st June 2012, 05:04 AM | #169 |
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^^^ This.
With practice an actor could mimic my gait, or that of my wife almost perfectly - but probably never exactly perfectly. Whoever was in the suit came up with what they thought was a suitably animalistic gait for the film. That it took a little training to mimic the film's subject is not an argument against it being a man in a suit. |
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21st June 2012, 05:15 AM | #170 |
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"I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker "I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325 Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic |
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21st June 2012, 05:17 AM | #171 |
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It looks like this FB page: The Bigfoot Hunting Club has located a road-killed Bigfoot.
http://www.facebook.com/BigfootHuntingClub |
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"I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker "I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325 Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic |
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21st June 2012, 07:22 AM | #172 |
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21st June 2012, 09:12 AM | #173 |
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Bigfoot is everywhere, yet nowhere. LTC8K6 (Bigfoot) evidence doesn't look better on deeper analysis, it looks worse. David Daegling The Bigfoot hypothesis is tested daily. |
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21st June 2012, 09:21 AM | #174 |
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Correct, that's why he did the arm swing.
Most apes don't swing their arms when they walk but most people think they do. The arm swing is just more evidence of Patty being a bloke in a suit. |
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21st June 2012, 12:20 PM | #175 |
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^That's Bob Heironimus wearing Philip Morris's "original" suit. I don't think people understand how difficult it is creating a wearable costume that will look like Patty. When Bill Munns says 0.00005, he really means it. He knows just how impossible it is to recreate the film. People accuse him of bias because his report is not confirming on the hoax theory. |
21st June 2012, 12:28 PM | #176 |
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"I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker "I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325 Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic |
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21st June 2012, 12:35 PM | #177 |
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What is really amazing is how good the costume and acting are in the 1955 Japanese Tarzan Baruuba movie.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mufnIc_pIe8 If you think Patty couldn't be built in 1967, how did they build this suit in 1955? That actor in the Gorilla suit has really short legs, far below normal human range... |
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"I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker "I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325 Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic |
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21st June 2012, 12:36 PM | #178 |
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21st June 2012, 12:47 PM | #179 |
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Ontario,
Post 153 is still unanswered. |
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21st June 2012, 12:54 PM | #180 |
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21st June 2012, 01:09 PM | #181 |
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I listed a whole series of movies from the 30s-90s with convincing ape or ape-man suits, which have been summarily ignored by the ignorant and uninterested-in-education OntarioSquatch.
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21st June 2012, 01:23 PM | #182 |
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I accept Roger's story over BobH's because BobH's story has inconsistencies with both the film and Philip Morris himself. For example, Philip Morris said the fur was made from synthetic material, while BobH said it was made from real horse hide. Roger Patterson couldn't have changed the material of the suit, he would have had to use a completely different suit.
I haven't heard of the bent stirrup, it's the first time I've heard of it, but I do know after reading many reports of Bigfoot, animals like horses and dogs become really afraid when they are around one. I'm not exactly sure what it is they are afraid of, but i'm sure it's something that can be explained by science one day. Hopefully. |
21st June 2012, 01:35 PM | #183 |
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But Roger says he fell off the horse, bent a stirrup, and hurt his foot.
Gimlin never seems to recall these events, despite being right there. Gimlin's horse either ran off as well, or wasn't much bothered, depending on when you ask Gimlin. If dogs are afraid, why did Roger want some to chase Patty? And why did he call Canada for them? |
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What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing. 2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break? |
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21st June 2012, 01:57 PM | #184 |
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Bob did not say it was made from horse hide. He said he was told it was made from horse hide. He told the absolute truth in that he just repeated what he was told.
You said Roger slid off the horse but he said he fell off and nearly broke his foot in the stirrup. Do you see how you do not clearly understand the facts and are basing your belief on faulty information? If you open your mind, do some digging, and weigh all the facts you may see things in a different light, even if you don't want to. |
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21st June 2012, 02:29 PM | #185 |
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21st June 2012, 02:39 PM | #186 |
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21st June 2012, 02:46 PM | #187 |
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21st June 2012, 03:19 PM | #188 |
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Why "confidently?"
If it's because the person is knowledgeable about wildlife, that doesn't preclude the person being wrong. It doesn't preclude the person having a hallucination or having a false memory of the event. It doesn't preclude the person being hoaxed by someone else. It certainly doesn't preclude that person from fabricating the story. This is the nature of anecdotal information, and why it's useless when it comes to describing a new species. If there isn't a piece of that new species that can be measured and described, then it's at best premature to consider that it exists at all. There are too many competing explanations for anecdotal accounts. Note of course, that both liars and people who believe themselves to be correct will be perceived as unfailingly honest and sincere. I don't share your confidence. |
21st June 2012, 03:20 PM | #189 |
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21st June 2012, 05:01 PM | #190 |
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I'm amazed that you are so closed-minded that you won't consider any other possibilities.
So they all saw bigfoot. Couldn't have been anything else. None of them saw a bear, or imagined it, or were drinking at the time, and you're positive of those facts. Why do believers tell skeptics to be open-minded when the problem is clearly with the former? |
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21st June 2012, 05:54 PM | #191 |
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21st June 2012, 08:47 PM | #192 |
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21st June 2012, 08:52 PM | #193 |
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22nd June 2012, 07:10 AM | #194 |
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Do you have any thoughts on post 190?
Why are you so close-minded when it comes to bigfoot? And why do you just accept the false facts you hear about bigfoot instead of searching for the truth. An example being not accepting Roger's version of him falling off the horse and bending his stirrup, but instead accepting Gimlin's story of him leaping off the horse. |
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7th August 2012, 10:41 AM | #195 |
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Now the guy who believes Patty is a real bigfoot is going to prove it by making a suit using Long's book as a guide.
Finally, real objective evidence!!!!!
Originally Posted by Bill Munns @ BFF
Post 2552 I'm sure his recreation test will be completely unbiased. One of Bill's problems is that Patterson was a better artist and craftsman than Bill could ever hope to be. |
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7th August 2012, 12:50 PM | #196 |
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Munns will build a suit based on BobH's description?
That's ludicrous: A craftsman builds something unique. A non-craftsman examines it at close range, and decades later describes it from memory to an author who writes those statements in a book. Based on those statements, a second craftsman attempts to recreate the unique thing. Lemme guess - if the suit ends up an unmitigated failure that'll prove that BobH was never in the suit? |
7th August 2012, 03:33 PM | #197 |
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7th August 2012, 04:20 PM | #198 |
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Munns knows how to fish footers.
They'll swallow it all, bait, hook and sinker. I bet Munns can build a better bigfoot costume than the one Patterson built or adapted. I doubt, however, that he will do it. |
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7th August 2012, 04:35 PM | #199 |
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Yeah, Munns may be a dishonest attention whore and a drunk but he's intelligent enough to know what he needs to do to enhance his bigfoot career.
His joint effort with Meldrum proves that. |
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8th August 2012, 01:18 PM | #200 |
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Bill is incorrect. The chance of the film being faked is more like 0
Here's a bonus gif image from SweatyYeti |
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