Merged U.S. ambassador to Libya, 3 others killed in rocket attack, witness says

manofthesea · Sep 29, 2012

Ziggurat said:
True but irrelevant. It was organized and premeditated. That's obvious from the circumstances of the attack.

It has everything to do with the attack. If he meant anything else he would have said it. If you have any proof you're welcome to provide it.

The act is considered terrorism in the US, the killing due to religion. That may not be terrorism in Libya. Killing a foreign official who (seemingly) condones blasphemy. That may be why the FBI isn't allowed to investigate. (No right to investigate non-terrorism in their country, which may lead down a slippery slope there. What next, someone vandalizing a Coke machine?)

BTW, what you're describing would be called a 'coordinated terrorist attack'.

AlBell · Sep 30, 2012

Travis said:
But Obama says intelligence now says it was terrorism.

Yup, as opposed to original reports in particular from Ambassador Rice and Press Secretary.. movie was the reason.

And do you honestly think that Obama's drone strike program has only killed one person?

No. The +1 is bin Laden and of course the +4 are our recent deaths.

Drone estimates: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drone_attacks_in_Pakistan

1877 to 3177 dead in Pakistan. Now we need number of dhimmis killed since 9/11 casualties; bin Laden etal appear still ahead.

Orphia Nay · Sep 30, 2012

Shiner and I were discussing this at my forum yesterday.

Original reports from the US government said they suspected terrorists.

CNN on 12th or 13th September:

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/09/12/world/africa/libya-us-ambassador-killed/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

But U.S. sources said Wednesday the four-hour assault in Benghazi had been planned, with the attackers using the protest as a diversion.

A senior U.S. official told CNN that American surveillance drones are expected to join the hunt for jihadists who may be tied to the attack. The drones are expected to gather intelligence that will be turned over to Libyan officials for strikes, the official said.

Sources tracking militant Islamist groups in eastern Libya say a pro-al Qaeda group responsible for a previous armed assault on the Benghazi consulate is the chief suspect. A senior defense official told CNN the drones would be part of "a stepped-up, more focused search" for a particular insurgent cell that may have been behind the killings.
The FBI also is investigating, the bureau said Wednesday.

American sources could not say whether the attackers instigated the protest or merely took advantage of it, and they say they don't believe Stevens was specifically targeted.

Washington Post, September 12:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...5de5fc-fcc4-11e1-a31e-804fccb658f9_story.html

U.S. officials and Middle East analysts said Wednesday that an attack that killed four Americans at a U.S. Consulate in eastern Libya may have been planned by extremists and inspired by al-Qaeda.

Administration officials said they still were not sure Wednesday who the attackers were, or if the Benghazi attack was related to protests over an anti-Islamic movie at the U.S. embassy in Cairo the same day.

ETA: Those links are on the first page of this thread we're in now.

manofthesea · Sep 30, 2012

That's good information. Thanks.
I read Panetta's 'statement' on CNN which was posted yesterday and he agrees that there was premeditation. It was all starting to seem like a propaganda war to me, being conducted against us.

I'll agree that the intelligence community is pointing at a terrorist coordinated plot which manipulated the anger towards the film.

joesixpack · Sep 30, 2012

AlBell said:
No. The +1 is bin Laden and of course the +4 are our recent deaths.

Drone estimates: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drone_attacks_in_Pakistan

1877 to 3177 dead in Pakistan. Now we need number of dhimmis killed since 9/11 casualties; bin Laden etal appear still ahead.

Is there a reason that you're not counting the many thousands of deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan since 9/11? I seem to recall that the number of deaths as a result of the US invasions in those countries was pretty significant.

I Ratant · Sep 30, 2012

trustbutverify said:
Nope. You don't know what a hate crime is.

.
Yeah, caught me.
It was only a hate prank.
Who coulda expected some expatriot Egyptian Copts engaged in broadcasting insults about Mohammed (pbuhn) to Egypt would know that making a movie that has images of the Prophet (pbuh) presenting him in a insulting degrading manner, and dubbing the movie into Arabic and publishing it on Facebook, with a heads-up to Egyptian media in case no one noticed could have expected riots and deaths, just like every other such publication of demeaning portrayals of Mohammed (pbuhn) has provoked in recent times.
Beggars the imagination, dunnit.

tyr_13 · Sep 30, 2012

joesixpack said:
Is there a reason that you're not counting the many thousands of deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan since 9/11? I seem to recall that the number of deaths as a result of the US invasions in those countries was pretty significant.

Someone should also explain to him that bin Laden is dead too.

mhaze · Sep 30, 2012

ANTPogo said:
Why should we allow a convicted felon to violate his parole (after said felon had previously violated his parole for a different felony, no less)? .....

Parole? Last I heard it was probation. Do you even know what you are talking about?

And do you even know whether the previous charge was consummated, or dismissed, or placed in deferred adjudication? In 2 of these cases, he would simply not be a "convicted felon".

ANTPogo said:
.....Exercising your right to free speech does not give you a "get out of jail free" card when it comes to actual crimes that you commit.

ACTUAL CRIMES? WTF YOU TALKING ABOUT?

IF you don't understand the use of these terms in the USA, "probation", "parole", "felon", etc, just ask.

A'isha · Sep 30, 2012

mhaze said:
Parole? Last I heard it was probation. Do you even know what you are talking about?

It was probation, not parole, in both instances. I apologize for using the wrong term.

And do you even know whether the previous charge was consummated, or dismissed, or placed in deferred adjudication? In 2 of these cases, he would simply not be a "convicted felon".

According to the link, "Nakoula Basseley Nakoula was arrested by the L.A. Country Sheriff's Department on March 27, 1997 and charged with intent to manufacture methamphetamine. He pleaded guilty and was sentenced on Nov. 3, 1997 to one year in county jail and three years probation. The D.A.’s office said he violated probation on April 8, 2002, and was re-sentenced to another year in county jail."

ACTUAL CRIMES? WTF YOU TALKING ABOUT?

These crimes, for which he seems to have violated the terms of his probation: "Citing Nakoula’s “lengthy pattern of deception,” a federal magistrate this afternoon ordered him held without bond for alleged probation violations, including making false statements to his probation officer and using aliases."

AlBell · Sep 30, 2012

I Ratant said:
.
Yeah, caught me.
It was only a hate prank.
Who coulda expected some expatriot Egyptian Copts engaged in broadcasting insults about Mohammed (pbuhn) to Egypt would know that making a movie that has images of the Prophet (pbuh) presenting him in a insulting degrading manner, and dubbing the movie into Arabic and publishing it on Facebook, with a heads-up to Egyptian media in case no one noticed could have expected riots and deaths, just like every other such publication of demeaning portrayals of Mohammed (pbuhn) has provoked in recent times.
Beggars the imagination, dunnit.

The fact that you seem to believe this was a crime in the US unprotected by the 1st Amendment ... Beggars the imagination, dunnit.

AlBell · Sep 30, 2012

tyr_13 said:
Someone should also explain to him that bin Laden is dead too.

As all were advised previously he was the +1 scored to Obama by me. Did you miss my post #1322?

AlBell · Sep 30, 2012

joesixpack said:
Is there a reason that you're not counting the many thousands of deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan since 9/11? I seem to recall that the number of deaths as a result of the US invasions in those countries was pretty significant.

If you feel war deaths are important please supply the data.

I don't agree they add anything to the situation.

mhaze · Sep 30, 2012

ANTPogo said:
It was probation, not parole, in both instances. I apologize for using the wrong term.

According to the link, "Nakoula Basseley Nakoula was arrested by the L.A. Country Sheriff's Department on March 27, 1997 and charged with intent to manufacture methamphetamine. He pleaded guilty and was sentenced on Nov. 3, 1997 to one year in county jail and three years probation. The D.A.’s office said he violated probation on April 8, 2002, and was re-sentenced to another year in county jail.".....

Clearly you didn't understand what I said. None of this makes him, today, a "convicted felon". The guilty plea does not make him that.

He was in fact on the path to deferred adjudication, which is exactly the opposite of being "convicted of a felony". I have not looked up the current status of that case, just commenting on the legal terms and their usage. You don't seem to understand this.

The very fact he was "on probation" means he was NOT a "convicted felon". Parole is an early release from prison for those who are convicted.

ANTPogo said:
....These crimes[/URL], for which he seems to have violated the terms of his probation: "Citing Nakoula’s “lengthy pattern of deception,” a federal magistrate this afternoon ordered him held without bond for alleged probation violations, including making false statements to his probation officer and using aliases."

Again, you don't seem to know what the words mean.

Probation violations are typically not "crimes", but simply things they don't want someone to do. One of the most commonly seen requirements for probation is "don't go into bars". Obviously not "a crime". Got it?

Clearly you are trying to emphasize this "is a bad guy". Well, to me he looks just like one of a million screwed up losers, more worthy of pity than hate. And yes, there's a million like him out there on probation, worried all the time someone might find something to pull them back in on. So face up to it, it was a politically motivated event, ostensively based on actions of his which violated probation (which had of course been overlooked prior to his becoming a bit of a celebrity).

rwguinn · Sep 30, 2012

mhaze said:
Clearly you didn't understand what I said. None of this makes him, today, a "convicted felon". The guilty plea does not make him that.

He was in fact on the path to deferred adjudication, which is exactly the opposite of being "convicted of a felony". I have not looked up the current status of that case, just commenting on the legal terms and their usage. You don't seem to understand this.

The very fact he was "on probation" means he was NOT a "convicted felon". Parole is an early release from prison for those who are convicted.

Wanna bet?

Probation is a court-imposed SANCTION that "releases a convicted offender into the community under a conditional suspended sentence." This practice assumes that most offenders are not dangerous and will respond well to treatment. In fact, the average PROBATIONER is a first time and/or non-violent offender who, it is believed, will be best served by remaining in the community while serving out the sentence.

Pedatry is fine, if you know what you are talking about...

mhaze · Sep 30, 2012

rwguinn said:
Wanna bet?

Pedatry is fine, if you know what you are talking about...

Huh? Your own quote SAYS "suspended sentence" and I have already used "deferred adjudication". These both mean that a "conviction", if there is to be one, will be at a future time. One in such a condition cannot, at the present, be a "convicted felon".

It is not pedatry, it is simply what these words actually mean.

rwguinn · Sep 30, 2012

mhaze said:
Huh? Your own quote SAYS "suspended sentence" and I have already used "deferred adjudication". These both mean that a "conviction", if there is to be one, will be at a future time. One in such a condition cannot, at the present, be a "convicted felon".

It is not pedatry, it is simply what these words actually mean.

What part of

Probation is a court-imposed SANCTION that "releases a convicted offender into the community under a conditional suspended sentence."

Are you having difficulty with, he asked, not expecting a straight answer...

mhaze · Sep 30, 2012

rwguinn said:
What part of
Are you having difficulty with, he asked, not expecting a straight answer...

The straight answers need to come from you.

What part of "Deferred Adjudication" do you NOT UNDERSTAND?

WildCat · Sep 30, 2012

mhaze said:
The straight answers need to come from you.

What part of "Deferred Adjudication" do you NOT UNDERSTAND?

Do you not understand that a defendant can be convicted, but not yet sentenced?

Robrob · Sep 30, 2012

mhaze said:
Clearly you didn't understand what I said. None of this makes him, today, a "convicted felon". The guilty plea does not make him that.

The guilty plea is what exactly makes him that.

He was in fact on the path to deferred adjudication, which is exactly the opposite of being "convicted of a felony". I have not looked up the current status of that case, just commenting on the legal terms and their usage. You don't seem to understand this.

You probably should look up the meaning of words you don't understand before using them in a sentence.

The very fact he was "^{on probation}" means he was NOT a "convicted felon". Parole is an early release from prison for those who are convicted.

You probably should look up the meaning of words you don't understand before using them in a sentence.

Probation is the result of a conviction.

Again, you don't seem to know what the words mean.

Pot, kettle, black.

Probation violations are typically not "crimes", but simply things they don't want someone to do. One of the most commonly seen requirements for probation is "don't go into bars". Obviously not "a crime". Got it?

You probably should look up the meaning of words you don't understand before using them in a sentence.

Probation violations are not only "crimes," they can send you back to prison. When the court orders you not to "go into bars" - going into bars becomes a crime for you.

Clearly you are trying to emphasize this "is a bad guy". Well, to me he looks just like one of a million screwed up losers, more worthy of pity than hate. And yes, there's a million like him out there on probation, worried all the time someone might find something to pull them back in on. So face up to it, it was a politically motivated event, ostensively based on actions of his which violated probation (which had of course been overlooked prior to his becoming a bit of a celebrity).

Clearly you are trying to pretend this guy - even though he violated the terms of his probation - isn't a criminal.

Since the violation of his probation was not known till he went out of his way to ensure the entire world knew about it, your point would be?

Chris L · Sep 30, 2012

Robrob said:
Clearly you are trying to pretend this guy - even though he violated the terms of his probation - isn't a criminal.

While I do believe the actual arrest was politically motivated (there is such a thing as prosecutorial discretion), he did in fact violate his parole. That makes his arrest and imprisonment (as he is a criminal) quite legal.

Merged U.S. ambassador to Libya, 3 others killed in rocket attack, witness says

2wu4u

Philosopher

Penguilicious Spodmaster

2wu4u

Illuminator

Penultimate Amazing

Penultimate Amazing

Banned

Miss Schoolteacher

Philosopher

Philosopher

Philosopher

Banned

Penultimate Amazing

Banned

Penultimate Amazing

Banned

NWO Master Conspirator

Philosopher

Graduate Poster

Share this page

ISF - Join now!