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#321 |
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#322 |
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Any good reason I should continue trying to help you understand, when instead of working a tiny little bit with what I'm offering you, you flip me off?
Quote:
It looks like at least a few understand the concept I'm working with. I'd venture a guess that at least a few learned about simple machines when they were in grade school, or at least high school. Thinking through a simple physics puzzle doesn't require any mind reading. |
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#323 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 9,607
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#324 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 9,607
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I suppose you mean that you never claimed to know how it was done, but only how it might have been done.
Yeah, I misspoke there. Sorry for that. I don't think it was a terrible error, but it was a misrepresentation.
Quote:
Conversation, even with gullible fringe folk, is not a contest to be won by cleverness. If you actually had a particular method in mind, there's no reason not to have spelled it out by at least the third request to do so. |
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#325 |
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,235
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Do notice that I've tried at least a few times to find out if Zeuzzz has the physics background necessary to actually understand any explanation I might offer. Also notice that my efforts at that have been met with flippancy and willful ignorance. If he doesn't understand simple machines, he quite possibly won't understand my explanation. If he does understand simple machines, my explanation would likely be unnecessary. But since we don't know one way or another, it puts us in a bit of a quandary until Zeuzzz chooses to participate in a productive, cooperative manner, now doesn't it? |
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#326 |
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,211
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Can you please help me Geemack?
I studied physics at university for three years. This is no secret here. |
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#327 |
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#328 |
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In terms of leverage and transporation, yes. I canh onyl guess at what you have in mind at this point though. But as we pointed out before the stress on wood machines with such weight would severely constrain their effectiveness, unless you have evidence to the contrary. |
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#329 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 12,331
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You mean, like the hard evidence you posted up 5 years ago to show the stones are part of a pre-Roman construction?
Or do you have anything more than 100year+ old quotations mined from other writers? If so, post it up, please. Thanks, Harte. Ñom, ñom. |
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#330 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 39,012
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__________________
I suspect you are a sandwich, metaphorically speaking. -Donn And a shot rang out. Now Space is doing time... -Ben Burch You built the toilet - don't complain when people crap in it. _Kid Eager Never underestimate the power of the Random Number God. More of evolutionary history is His doing than people think. - Dinwar |
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#331 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 39,012
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__________________
I suspect you are a sandwich, metaphorically speaking. -Donn And a shot rang out. Now Space is doing time... -Ben Burch You built the toilet - don't complain when people crap in it. _Kid Eager Never underestimate the power of the Random Number God. More of evolutionary history is His doing than people think. - Dinwar |
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#332 |
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#333 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,968
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#334 |
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#335 |
Illuminator
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#336 |
Philosopher
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#337 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 8,406
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__________________
@tomhodden Never look up an E-book because this signature line told you. Especially not Dead Lament (ASIN: B00JEN1MWY). Or A Little Trouble (ASIN: B00GQFZZQW). |
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#338 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 15,347
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How about the writings and carvings by the Romans that tell us exactly how they moved huge stones?
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#339 |
"más divertido"
Join Date: Jul 2009
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#340 |
Banned
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Posts: 5,211
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So many words, such little content.
I've tried googling some of what you just said but drew blanks. |
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#341 |
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http://www.internationalskeptics.com...eply&p=8766723 Someone later worked out it's not impossible on a perfectly smooth road, but definitely tests the wood to it's limit, even when 40 rollers are used. |
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#342 |
"más divertido"
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#343 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jul 2010
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__________________
@tomhodden Never look up an E-book because this signature line told you. Especially not Dead Lament (ASIN: B00JEN1MWY). Or A Little Trouble (ASIN: B00GQFZZQW). |
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#344 |
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#345 |
Sorcerer Supreme
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 7,905
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The laws of physics prevent more than 40 rollers being used. The gods get angry if you try to use more than 40. The extra logs burst into flame and then shoot glowing fire, Ark of the Covenant-style, through all the workers' bodies. It is known.
Also, Romans had no idea how to pave straight, level roads with opus caementicium (masonry resembling modern concrete that was made from crushed rock with burnt lime as binder, with volcanic ash and pulverized brick added to the burnt lime to obtain a hydraulic binder). Nope. No idea at all. |
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"I'm 'willing to admit' any fact that can be shown to be evidential and certain." -- Vortigern99 "When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." -- Jimi Hendrix |
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#346 |
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#347 |
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Yes. Castro. I find it funny that you missed pretty much the most productive post in this thread yet pay attention to all the others. The forty rollers is in fact constrained by the laws of physics and the coefficient of rolling resistance, even if it increases the surface area touching the stone. |
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#348 |
Muse
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 688
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http://www.internationalskeptics.com...&postcount=160
The calculation was made for rollers with a diameter of 0.5 m. If the length of the stone is 20 m, then the maximum number of rollers supporting the weight of the stone is 40. If the diameter of the rollers is 0.4 m, then this maximum number is 50, and the minimum width of the contact surface per roller must be 0.010 m = 10 mm to avoid the wood breaking. So: if diameter of a roller = 0.5 m then max number of rollers = 40 and minimum width of the contact surface per roller = 13 mm (about 0.8% of the circumference of a roller) and if diameter of a roller = 0.4 m then max number of rollers = 50 and minimum width of the contact surface per roller = 10 mm (about 0.8% of the circumference of a roller either) FWIW |
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#349 |
Penultimate Amazing
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#350 |
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#351 |
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#352 |
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Most scholars now a days don't sit in a library. They use online journals and google scholar to reference and research their work. Most books are online in ebook format to buy now too. Apart from very dated ones. Plus I don't believe in violence to public services. |
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#353 |
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#354 |
Critical Thinker
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#355 |
Penultimate Amazing
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#356 |
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Join Date: Aug 2007
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Thanks, I guess. I don't think most of us find this stone moving stuff to be especially mysterious though.
Quote:
Given the limited number of tools we call "simple machines", and the very limited materials available to the people of the time, the possible methods for lifting the Stone of the Pregnant Woman twenty feet would be, well, quite limited. If you continue to reduce the possible explanations by setting aside the least likely possibilities... ... it shouldn't take you much time at all to work out a viable method. Can we eliminate any of those simple machines, and if so, why? |
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#357 |
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,211
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I don't know, you tell me. You are the one that's known the answer within the first few posts since the OP yet not shared your input with the community.
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#358 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 29,167
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Start down this path...
Is there a way to lift stones an appreciable distance upward using only shovels and dirt and such? (Hint: there certainly is) Now, once you've lifted the stone vertically enough, can't you then use gravity as your slave? (Hint: yes you can) Would it take a lot of time with just six people with shovels on this size rock? Yep, depending on how far you needed to raise it and move it. |
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#359 |
Sorcerer Supreme
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 7,905
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I'm no physicist, but five minutes of research has reminded me that simple machines include wheels and axles, pulleys, levers, ramps and ropes.
We've already been discussing wheels in the form of log rollers, but GeeMack hasn't responded positively to this, so while Zeuzz has admitted it would work, wheels must not be the solution GM has in mind. The use of levers -- think see-saw -- would require greater force/weight opposite the stone in order to lift it. I haven't done the math, but that's a lot of people/bricks/stones piled up on the other end of the lever. The advantage here is that discrete units of weight can be added to the pile until the weight of the object to be moved is exceeded. Then the lever rises and the stone is raised. Once the stone has been raised as described above, the stone could be slid/dragged, via ropes and pulleys, by a large number of people and/or beasts of burden, from its position on the raised side of the lever to the top of a ramp. The stone would descend the ramp by the simple workings of gravity -- and/or the continued use of ropes -- to the bottom of the ramp. Rinse and repeat. That entire process took me about 8 minutes. Feel free to poke holes in it, as I've admitted I'm no expert in this area, but it's as good place to start as any... without, you know, actually reading about actual methods the Romans and other ancient cultures actually employed. |
__________________
"I'm 'willing to admit' any fact that can be shown to be evidential and certain." -- Vortigern99 "When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." -- Jimi Hendrix |
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#360 |
Hostile Nanobacon
Join Date: Jul 2008
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