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#1161 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 66,340
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No one has answered Aepervius' questions. You only imagine they have.
I've asked the same thing a number of times and there has not been an answer, because the answer is the stuff is not just more trim like the rest of the trim. It's trim that is closer to the hide and the bone, i.e. further away from the muscles. |
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"Why do people say 'grow some balls'? Balls are weak and sensitive! If you really want to get tough, grow a vagina! Those things take a pounding!" — Betty White |
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#1162 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 66,340
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That's all well and good but it is an industry propaganda piece from Beef products, Inc that is not supported by the analysis of the stuff.
Nor is that advertising lie (you seem to think advertisers don't lie ![]() |
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"Why do people say 'grow some balls'? Balls are weak and sensitive! If you really want to get tough, grow a vagina! Those things take a pounding!" — Betty White |
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#1163 |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 10,307
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An industry propaganda piece? Wow that's incredibly delusional. Those quotes are from the lawsuit they filed. You really think they lied in their lawsuit? Ha!
And every expert in the field agrees with them. We've been over it all before have fun with your delusions. This is really funny. |
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#1164 |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 10,307
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I mean, to lie in your lawsuit about all of that, wow you'd really have to be an idiot. Since the point of the lawsuit is to prove those facts, you're actually guaranteeing that you'll be publicly exposed as a fraudster. Since all the experts say the same thing, since all we have as evidence from the opposition is people demonstrably misreading studies they are not qualified to interpret, yeah this is really funny.
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#1165 |
Non credunt, semper verificare
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sigil, the city of doors
Posts: 14,581
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Idiot lie in lawsuit from time to time. See Dover for compelte utter idiot. For a corporate example see SCO, that one went over what ? 10 years ? Heck see MS and their various sheenanigan and lies when got caught. The trick is not to "lie" outright, the trick is to present the lie in small part and hinge them together with truth as if it represented the whole truth, all the while not telling the small bit which would clearly show it for a lie.
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#1166 |
Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pie City, Arcadia
Posts: 22,420
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"Lean, finely textured beef (LFTB) is a lean product
derived from beef-fat trimmings. Characterization of LFTB showed that, while it is high in total protein, the LFTB contains more serum and connective tissue proteins and less myofibrillar proteins than muscle meat" ..... "Financial support and materials used for this project were provided by Beef Products, Inc. (Dakota Dunes, SD)." from this research paper , just for example. The collagen fraction in LFTB is reported and is double that of beef chuck. They used BPI LFTB, incidentally. There are many more such studies and they're easy enough to find. |
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#1167 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 66,340
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Joey McGee, if it's just like the rest of the burger why can't they just sell it as burger?
No matter how many times you dismiss this question claiming it has been addressed, it just doesn't make it so. In the industry's own marketing studies they found adding 20% LFTB to the school lunch hamburger made the burger unacceptable to the tasters. They had to limit the additive to 15% or less. |
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"Why do people say 'grow some balls'? Balls are weak and sensitive! If you really want to get tough, grow a vagina! Those things take a pounding!" — Betty White |
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#1168 |
NWO Janitor
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,518
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__________________
"why would i bother?" - Bikerdruid, on providing evidence for his claims "I view hamas as an organization fighting for the freedom of its people." - Bikerdruid |
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#1169 |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 10,307
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Whoa guys the fact is that it is limited at 15% due to texture. I mean I was pretty sure there was no boogy men under my bed by age 5. All your "qualms" have been defeated by USDA personnel I don't feel the need to respond.
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#1170 |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 10,307
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Hey we'll see it all in court, be patient.
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#1171 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 66,340
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__________________
"Why do people say 'grow some balls'? Balls are weak and sensitive! If you really want to get tough, grow a vagina! Those things take a pounding!" — Betty White |
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#1172 |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 10,307
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#1173 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 66,340
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__________________
"Why do people say 'grow some balls'? Balls are weak and sensitive! If you really want to get tough, grow a vagina! Those things take a pounding!" — Betty White |
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#1174 |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 10,307
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You must have missed where the author of that paper issued a statement saying that anyone saying that his paper means it is less nutritious is reading the paper wrong. You must have missed the many experts who have said that the nutritional quality is equal or above normal beef for this product.
No wait you didn't miss it, you willfully ignored it. |
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#1175 |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 10,307
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Hey, look, the delusional people won. The buyers of the product, the schools, even though they knew there was nothing wrong with it, they opted out to avoid controversy. Pat yourselves on the back. But the reason certain people such as myself care about this is that in the future we will need even more radical alterations to our food supply and fearmongering pseudoscientific incompetents will make things worse
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#1176 |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 10,307
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#1177 |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 10,307
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So i guess the only evidence against the product comes from a study where the author of it says you're totally wrong about it! I mean... holy smokes jokes!
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#1178 |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 10,307
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Quote:
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#1179 |
NWO Janitor
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,518
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__________________
"why would i bother?" - Bikerdruid, on providing evidence for his claims "I view hamas as an organization fighting for the freedom of its people." - Bikerdruid |
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#1180 |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 10,307
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The reason they need ammonia is because they need to heat the meat to help it separate in the centrifuge. Increased heat leads to increased bacterial activity, the perfectly safe treatment prevents that.
Lets revisit the lies SG believes 1. A USDA offcial was bribed to let this go 2. This product was only approved as dog food before this.. 3. Sorry I have more but I can't stop laughing |
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#1181 |
Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pie City, Arcadia
Posts: 22,420
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#1182 |
Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pie City, Arcadia
Posts: 22,420
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Would you object if I served you up a plate of pulverised tendon and cartilage (cooked
![]() Obviously I exaggerate hugely here, but the problem is one of terminology and deception. "Low-fat tissue of cow origin" <> "Lean beef" in my book. Let me throw the question back to you - if a meat patty or sausage contained minced earthworm while being marketed as "100% lean meat" would that be a problem? |
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#1183 |
NWO Janitor
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,518
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__________________
"why would i bother?" - Bikerdruid, on providing evidence for his claims "I view hamas as an organization fighting for the freedom of its people." - Bikerdruid |
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#1184 |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 10,307
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Then what it is about? I thought it was about how connective tissue was being used as filler. Since this is a lie, I have no idea what you are talking about. It doesn't say they are using connective tissue. Try again.
Quote:
Yes, the sentence you have lost your collective **** over is "the LFTB contains more serum and connective tissue proteins and less myofibrillar proteins." Ok. Does that not imply that there are connective tissue proteins in regular ground beef, just less? Do you see where you have gone wrong yet... I need to stop posting in this thread, sorry. |
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#1185 |
Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pie City, Arcadia
Posts: 22,420
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Excellent, as this is a point you have strenuously denied before. For example:
".....you should simply be made to eat a burger containing LFTB. Don't worry, it's a scientific fact there is no connective tissue in it." I know full well that muscle meat includes connective tissue. Just ~50% less (according to the study under discussion), as you now accept. |
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#1186 |
Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pie City, Arcadia
Posts: 22,420
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Because we typically leave parts that are normally considered indedible on the side. Powdered cow bone would be 'lean bovine tissue', but could hardly be considered "lean beef", could it? And nobody I know gnaws at the cartilage or tendon tissue.
Semi serious, but only to make a point (one you've ignored). Earthworm 'meat' is perfectly nutritious, just that I have no plans to eat any. And if it were present in a food product I'd like to have the information in order to make that choice myself. |
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#1187 |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 10,307
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I thought it was obvious that we were talking about tendons and the stuff that is around the muscle meat, not the connective tissue that is within muscle meat. It is ALL muscle meat, right?
And in regards to the post that was edited, I should have said, anecdotes aren't interesting at this point, evidence is, I didn't mean to be mean. |
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#1188 |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 10,307
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Right? With that non-issue out of the way, now you can explain where you are getting this ridiculous nonsense about cartilage and tendons. Got a link there?
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#1189 |
Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pie City, Arcadia
Posts: 22,420
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First of all, do you now accept that FTLB contains ~2x the connective tissue of beef chuckWP (which itself is rather higher in connective tissue than the edible portion of prime cuts)? The study in question compared FTLB to chuck.
"The chuck contains a lot of connective tissue, including collagen, which partially melts during cooking. Meat from the chuck is usually used for stewing, slow cooking, braising, or pot roasting." I hope we have established that point. As for your question, I don't know what it means. What "ridiculous nonsense" are you referring to? But if it's the fact that butchers remove the more prime meat by hand, leaving the more difficult tissue to the machines, then I'd say it's self evident that the scraps will be higher in connective tissue, and the results of the process confirm this. But please feel free to enlarge. |
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#1190 |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 10,307
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I never didn't accept that study, pat yourself on the back much? Besides it's 17 years old the product has evolved since then.
Younger animals have a much higher amount of connective tissue in their muscle meat. Are the evil corporations sneaking connective tissue into veal? Does this point make you realize why I think this is funny? Do you not realize it is being claimed that tendons or anything other than muscle meat are in this product? Were you just talking out of your ass here? |
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#1191 |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 10,307
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#1192 |
Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pie City, Arcadia
Posts: 22,420
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Then why have you been denying the presence of connective tissue in FTLB, let alone its high proportion?
I have no idea why you're introducing this point, as we don't usually eat the gristle from veal. I can't even understand this sentence. Are you drunk again? No. I was illustrating - in an extreme manner - why it isn't reasonable to describe bovine products high in CT as 'lean beef'. I asked a similar question earlier ... would ground cow bone, skin, hoof or horn reasonably qualify for the description 'lean beef' ? After all, they're from a cow and are low in fat and (variably) high in protein ![]() |
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#1193 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 66,340
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Because it changes the texture of the burger. Some people don't mind, I do. But when they hid the fact the stuff was added to the burger people like myself who didn't like the texture had no way of knowing which burger would taste normal. Even the people behind the meat counter couldn't say.
If they would have labeled it properly instead of trying to hide it from consumers by calling it "beef" when in reality it had very little meat, there wouldn't be an issue today. |
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"Why do people say 'grow some balls'? Balls are weak and sensitive! If you really want to get tough, grow a vagina! Those things take a pounding!" — Betty White |
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#1194 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 66,340
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OK, let's.
SG has said repeatedly she is not in the, 'it's bad for you', camp. One of the key regulators responsible for the decision to approve adding LFTB to hamburger without informing the consumer left her government position shortly after and was paid 1.4 million dollars (spread out over a number of years) to sit on the board of one of the main beneficiaries of the decision. While it was argued it only amounted to $40K a year, what was ignored was that $40K was for working a couple days a year. This revolving door of government is well known, a recognized problem, and certainly not something SG imagined. And you have evidence that isn't a true statement? (Except I believe the trim was sold to be put in animal feed, not necessarily just dog food.) I lieu of actual arguments no doubt. |
__________________
"Why do people say 'grow some balls'? Balls are weak and sensitive! If you really want to get tough, grow a vagina! Those things take a pounding!" — Betty White |
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#1195 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 66,340
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__________________
"Why do people say 'grow some balls'? Balls are weak and sensitive! If you really want to get tough, grow a vagina! Those things take a pounding!" — Betty White |
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#1196 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 66,340
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Let's clarify the tendon thing.
The beef industry websites and some university websites associated with the beef industry say there are no tendons in the LFTB. This is a moot point since the issue is the connective tissue proteins, not which body part they come from. From Scientific American guest blogger, See Arr Oh:
Quote:
If there are no tendons in the LFTB, then where does the fibrous protein fibers come from? Something other than tendons, ligaments, and cartilage? If it's the same kind of tissue, who cares? It's still fibrous CT protein, not globular muscle meat protein. |
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"Why do people say 'grow some balls'? Balls are weak and sensitive! If you really want to get tough, grow a vagina! Those things take a pounding!" — Betty White |
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#1197 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 66,340
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Finely Textured Lean Beef as an Ingredient for Processed Meats - A.S. Leaflet R1361
It's interesting revisiting this document. The point of the analysis was to find out why LFTB was an unsuitable ingredient in hot dogs.
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In the discussion part of the paper, it was noted:
Quote:
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Why would they do that? Because they were afraid consumers would reject the product. Well, in this country, that is supposed to be our right to do. |
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"Why do people say 'grow some balls'? Balls are weak and sensitive! If you really want to get tough, grow a vagina! Those things take a pounding!" — Betty White |
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#1198 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 26,282
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I'm beginning to think that the Kosher labeling example should be a litmus test for pro-nanny-staters.
Anybody who looks at food labeling questions of personal preference (or religious prohibitions) and instead of saying "no problem, we'll just emulate the success of the kosher community", says "no problem, we'll just get the government to criminalize something" is clearly having a gay crush on the Nanny State, Solver Of All Life's Problems. |
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#1199 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 66,340
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__________________
"Why do people say 'grow some balls'? Balls are weak and sensitive! If you really want to get tough, grow a vagina! Those things take a pounding!" — Betty White |
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#1200 |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 10,307
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I'm sorry you really just repeated what has been called out as ******** before. There are higher amounts of connective tissue in a study from 1995. The author said that people seeing this as having a negative effect on nutrition were wrong. We have seen that it is actually more tender when we look at the majority of taste tests. We also see that despite the higher amount of connective tissue in veal that no one would ever call that product tough or not-tender. So the presence of higher amounts of connective tissue would never insinuate a lesser quality product.
We have people far out of their depth reading what they want into studies that actually don't say anything of the kind. It is ALL muscle meat. Yes, there are connective tissues throughout the body, not just in muscle meat, just fantasist ranting. |
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