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Old 21st December 2012, 12:09 PM   #241
SatansMaleVoiceChoir
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Originally Posted by John Albert View Post
Your "experience and opinion" are irrelevant to the basic question of freedom, and they appear to be quite ill-informed as well.
If you feel comfortable handwaving away my personal experience and the opinions I have based on it, that's absolutely fine. Ill informed? If you say so. If you can't change someone's opinion, then just write it off as ill informed... How's those grapes taste?
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Old 21st December 2012, 12:19 PM   #242
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
No, as others have pointed out, you're the one handwaving away the freedom that comes with Android. That you have no interest in exercising that freedom and that you think "average Android user[s]" feel the same way doesn't make IOS as free as Android. In fact, your opinion is entirely irrelevant to the objective question: "Does the Android operating system offer more user freedom than IOS?" The answer to that question can be "yes" without being an indictment of IOS as an overall quality user experience.
Maybe you should pay attention. My argument is that having the freedom to do something, but not having the ability or even intent to do it isn't really 'freedom'.

I'll say it again for those of you with reading comprehension problems; Android offers a great deal of freedom and versatility to those with the knowledge required to truly utilise it.

It's also great for people who enjoy collecting viruses and malware on a mobile device. Now THAT'S trolling!
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Old 21st December 2012, 12:43 PM   #243
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Originally Posted by SatansMaleVoiceChoir View Post
Maybe you should pay attention. My argument is that having the freedom to do something, but not having the ability or even intent to do it isn't really 'freedom'.
That's simply an assertion/opinion that has nothing to do with reality. I have the freedom to move to any of the 50 United States even if I never intend to exercise it. I have the freedom to buy and drive a car even if I choose to ride the bus. I have the freedom to join a church, buy a big TV, and eat only raw vegetables. That I never choose to exercise those options doesn't make me any less free to do so.

Believe it or not (you have the freedom to choose which), I understand your argument. I simply find it fallacious.
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Old 21st December 2012, 01:04 PM   #244
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Originally Posted by SatansMaleVoiceChoir View Post
If you feel comfortable handwaving away my personal experience and the opinions I have based on it, that's absolutely fine. Ill informed? If you say so. If you can't change someone's opinion, then just write it off as ill informed... How's those grapes taste?
Black knight declares victory.
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Old 21st December 2012, 01:08 PM   #245
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Originally Posted by SatansMaleVoiceChoir View Post
If you feel comfortable handwaving away my personal experience and the opinions I have based on it, that's absolutely fine. Ill informed? If you say so. If you can't change someone's opinion, then just write it off as ill informed...

I'm handwaving your personal opinion because personal opinions do not constitute facts, and you haven't offered any coherent rationale to back up your opinions except an evident desire to bicker.

I called your opinion "ill-informed" because you've demonstrated little understanding of Android in particular, and no understanding of the basic concepts relevant to this discussion; such as open source software, open standards, creative commons, proprietary intellectual property models, monopolistic business practices, "walled garden" marketplaces, etc. Instead of participating in a reasoned discussion of ideas, you've simply thrown arbitrary opinions around and then started whinging when people dismiss them out of hand. You have also neglected to address any of the points I made in my previous posts.

You have opinions. Good for you. So do I and everybody else in this discussion. But opinions do not make facts and there's nothing more of real substance in your argument, so there's really nothing to debate here.
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Last edited by John Albert; 21st December 2012 at 01:19 PM.
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Old 21st December 2012, 01:13 PM   #246
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Originally Posted by SatansMaleVoiceChoir View Post
My argument is that having the freedom to do something, but not having the ability or even intent to do it isn't really 'freedom'.

Yeah, and as others and I have repeatedly pointed out, that's objectively wrong.


Originally Posted by SatansMaleVoiceChoir View Post
Android offers a great deal of freedom and versatility to those with the knowledge required to truly utilise it.

No special knowledge is required in order to benefit from the kind of freedom presented by open source, open standards, and creative commons licensing models.
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Last edited by John Albert; 21st December 2012 at 01:38 PM.
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Old 21st December 2012, 05:06 PM   #247
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Originally Posted by OnlyTellsTruths View Post
Great example of how Apple does not want to be associated with others:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57...table-charger/

Apparently Apple had a change of heart today. Perhaps they were visited by three ghosts during the night??

http://arstechnica.com/apple/2012/12...g-accessories/


Quote:
Apple has reviewed the specifications and has apparently reversed course on those restrictions, telling Ars on Friday that it has decided to allow 30-pin and Lightning connectors side-by-side for charging purposes
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Old 21st December 2012, 06:38 PM   #248
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Can you please elaborate, because I don't know what you mean here. I have m4a files that no one else can play. I apparently ripped hundreds of albums into this format, because it was the default for iTunes. I'm sure that I will "lose data" if I convert the files into other formats like mp3, but what else would you recommend?
Mp3 and m4a are lossy formats, after all you're taking for example a 50 mb wav file and changing it to a 3 mb mp3 or m4a. They make the file so much smaller in large part by ignoring much of ther data in the wav file. Once you convert to the lossy format that data is lost forever.

That's not necessarily a bad thing, because most of what is lost is unhearable to many people especially when playing it back on inferior equipment like a portable music player. You'd probably notice the difference on hi-end home stereos though.

But you get into trouble when you try converting the lossy formast into another format, because now you're making it even more lossy and quality will suffer.

The alternative is to buy and store your music in a lossless format like flac (Free Lossless Audio Compression). You can convert those into a lossy format for portable players and such, the flacs can also be converted to wav files to burn and play on a cd player with no loss whatsoever from the original file.

Flac files, however, are still huge, about 60% of the size of the uncompressed wav file.
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Old 21st December 2012, 07:45 PM   #249
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Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
Mp3 and m4a are lossy formats
I'll nitpick a little here. You're right about mp3 since that's a specific CODEC. The .m4a extension, however, only denotes a container format which can deliver any number of payloads, lossy or lossless. Unfortunately, this means that you can't tell what a file really is based on the extension alone; to some extent, the same could be said of .mp3 as it can represent any number of bitrates/encode settings, but as a rule any .mp3 file can be played by any hardware/software that claims to be able to play files with that extension.
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Old 21st December 2012, 08:48 PM   #250
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Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
Mp3 and m4a are lossy formats, after all you're taking for example a 50 mb wav file and changing it to a 3 mb mp3 or m4a. They make the file so much smaller in large part by ignoring much of ther data in the wav file. Once you convert to the lossy format that data is lost forever.

That's not necessarily a bad thing, because most of what is lost is unhearable to many people especially when playing it back on inferior equipment like a portable music player. You'd probably notice the difference on hi-end home stereos though.

But you get into trouble when you try converting the lossy formast into another format, because now you're making it even more lossy and quality will suffer.

The alternative is to buy and store your music in a lossless format like flac (Free Lossless Audio Compression). You can convert those into a lossy format for portable players and such, the flacs can also be converted to wav files to burn and play on a cd player with no loss whatsoever from the original file.

Flac files, however, are still huge, about 60% of the size of the uncompressed wav file.
You quoted my question. Would you care to answer it? I have all of these files already in "Apple lossless" so what should I do with them? I'm not going to rescan several hundred vinyl and CD based albums.
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Old 21st December 2012, 09:04 PM   #251
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
You quoted my question. Would you care to answer it? I have all of these files already in "Apple lossless" so what should I do with them? I'm not going to rescan several hundred vinyl and CD based albums.
Use iTunes to export them as mp3s.
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Old 21st December 2012, 10:47 PM   #252
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max might be a better option, although i find the interface a little wonky.
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Old 22nd December 2012, 05:28 PM   #253
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The thing is, when I'm in iTunes, I can't tell which songs are which type of file, so exporting them would be a pain. Again, it's thousands of files. I have to go through the actual file system to look at their names to see the type. It looks like all of the music I bought on iTunes "walled garden" over the years is DRM protected m4v files, and All of the music that I scanned into iTunes from physical media apparently is the same type of file name, but without DRM protection.

I'm sure there are loads of files that can mass convert to MP3s, I just hadn't really realized the level of problem I was dealing with. Hopefully, the same kind of program can clean up the file names and whatnot. I'm sick of looking at the entire song and artist name in song titles that I had ripped with my PC prior to using iTunes, for example.
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Old 22nd December 2012, 05:49 PM   #254
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Quote:
The thing is, when I'm in iTunes, I can't tell which songs are which type of file, so exporting them would be a pain. Again, it's thousands of files. I have to go through the actual file system to look at their names to see the type. It looks like all of the music I bought on iTunes "walled garden" over the years is DRM protected m4v files, and All of the music that I scanned into iTunes from physical media apparently is the same type of file name, but without DRM protection.
Actually, you can. When you are looking at your library you can add a column for "Kind" and it will tell you if a song is "Protected AAC", "Purchased AAC", "Apple Lossless", "MPEG", "AAC", etc. The ones that are "Protected" could be upgraded to iTunes Plus that gets rid of DRM and ups the bitrates for $.30 IIRC. Now they are using their cloud iTunes Match to do that, but it is a $25 a year subscription.
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Old 22nd December 2012, 06:40 PM   #255
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Originally Posted by Tsukasa Buddha View Post
Actually, you can. When you are looking at your library you can add a column for "Kind" and it will tell you if a song is "Protected AAC", "Purchased AAC", "Apple Lossless", "MPEG", "AAC", etc. The ones that are "Protected" could be upgraded to iTunes Plus that gets rid of DRM and ups the bitrates for $.30 IIRC. Now they are using their cloud iTunes Match to do that, but it is a $25 a year subscription.
If you want help, you should start a thread or have this part split.

Sorting out your library is not a huge problem to overcome.
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Old 23rd December 2012, 07:23 AM   #256
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Originally Posted by John Albert View Post
Yeah, and as others and I have repeatedly pointed out, that's objectively wrong.

No special knowledge is required in order to benefit from the kind of freedom presented by open source, open standards, and creative commons licensing models.
You see; this is one of the potential problems of this site; people become so enamoured with critical thinking and semantics that their ability to think in terms of the real world becomes lessened.

Just as Android represents 'freedom', so I am 'free' to go into space - maybe even walk on the moon. Nobody has forbade me from doing so; the technology exists so I certainly have the means, and it is something I am physically able to do. However, am I really 'free' to visit space/walk on the moon? I'd have to do all kinds of training and pass many physical and mental tests to be accepted by NASA; not to mention the tests and training that NASA would then put me through after being accepted. It's not entirely impossible that I could do all this, but really, in the real world? However, Virgin are offering flights into space for a fee. Have I got the kind of money they want? No. Could I feasibly save up that kind of money? Me - alas no. So that's not going to happen either.

So really, my 'freedom' to go into space/walk on the moon has a real-world end result no different from being told it is forbidden for me to do so.

Much like utilising Android to its full capability. Only a relative few can do it.

From personal experience (oooh sorry - I know how some of you hate that) - the majority of the minority of people I know with Android phones or devices didn't buy them because of Android; they bought them despite of, or unaware of Android; they bought them because of the features of the hardware, or the screen size, or the camera quality. This is why your average user won't utilise Android to it's full capacity, but yes they are 'free' to add neat little video clips to their home screen and things...

So, yeah - Android 'freedom'? No thanks; besides, I'm not willing to pay the price.
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Old 23rd December 2012, 08:10 AM   #257
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Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis View Post
I'm glad it works for you, but a personal anecdote does not equal truckloads of SD cards and tons of people storing their music on SD cards.

My experience tells me that is the exception, not the rule, until I see evidence otherwise.

But, this is entirely off topic, I apologize for posting earlier and won't continue this here.
No apology necessary. I use my Android phone in a way that, so far as I know, I would not be able to use an iPhone. Spot on topic.
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Old 23rd December 2012, 09:32 AM   #258
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Originally Posted by SatansMaleVoiceChoir View Post
So, yeah - Android 'freedom'? No thanks; besides, I'm not willing to pay the price.
So, now we finally have the full demonstration of your dishonesty.

It seems pretty clear that when you started this thread, you had a good idea of what Android freedom was.

Everything else has just been trolling by an Apple fanboi.
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Old 23rd December 2012, 09:37 AM   #259
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Yes. Putting a weather widget on your phone desktop is exactly like going to outer space. Great point.
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Old 23rd December 2012, 10:22 AM   #260
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
No apology necessary. I use my Android phone in a way that, so far as I know, I would not be able to use an iPhone. Spot on topic.
there is a flac player for the iphone, but you'd still have the sd card issue.

i have never used it, so i can't speak to how usable the app is.
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Old 23rd December 2012, 12:05 PM   #261
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Originally Posted by Wangler View Post
So, now we finally have the full demonstration of your dishonesty.

It seems pretty clear that when you started this thread, you had a good idea of what Android freedom was.

Everything else has just been trolling by an Apple fanboi.
Oh it's CLEAR I knew what Android Freedom was when I STARTED the thread, is it? Well, if you and your psychic powers deem it so. Plus, that makes it easier for you to label me a troll.

How about you put that quote in the context of me summing up everything I've been told in this thread has not convinced me of any realistic major 'freedom'.

Alternatively, you could go and have a good cry about how the bad "Apple fan" trolled you. I mean, I am clearly a MASSIVE Apple troll - I'm all OVER the Apple-related threads on this forum... Oh hang on - I'm not! Ah, that's right - I couldn't care less about Apple Vs Android arguments!

<SNIP> - it's nearly Christmas.

Edited by Locknar:  SNIPed, breach of rule 0/rule 12.
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Old 23rd December 2012, 12:18 PM   #262
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Yes. Putting a weather widget on your phone desktop is exactly like going to outer space. Great point.
No it's not - what a stupid thing to say! Who said that?

I was talking about 'freedom', and that there's a difference between being 'free' to do something, and realistically being able to actually do it, thus questioning whether that is actually 'freedom'.

Am I free to learn to code and write my own Apps for Android, thus making it do "anything I want"? Yes. Do I have the time, basic skills and knowledge required to learn how to do this? No. So how is that outcome realistically any different to it being forbidden?

Beautiful textbook example of a Straw Man though. Well done.

I don't need a weather widget on my desktop anyway - I just swipe down from the top of the screen and the local weather is in the notification centre; works anywhere as well - not just the home screen!

Or I can just hold the home button, wait for the beep and ask Siri what I want to know.
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Old 23rd December 2012, 12:52 PM   #263
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Originally Posted by SatansMaleVoiceChoir View Post
I was talking about 'freedom', and that there's a difference between being 'free' to do something, and realistically being able to actually do it, thus questioning whether that is actually 'freedom'.
Virtually anyone with an Android phone is easily capable of (1) adding storage and (2) connecting phone to computer and transferring files. These are mainstream capabilities.
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Old 23rd December 2012, 12:58 PM   #264
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Originally Posted by SatansMaleVoiceChoir View Post
I couldn't care less about Apple Vs Android arguments!
An easy way to prove this would be to stop posting in this thread. Good luck.
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Old 23rd December 2012, 01:42 PM   #265
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Originally Posted by SatansMaleVoiceChoir View Post
I see my iPhone as a phone/communication device, internet browser and media player - not a portable hard drive.
Does not compute. The main reason people want storage is to store media files, or so I (safely!?) speculate.
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Old 23rd December 2012, 01:53 PM   #266
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
You quoted my question. Would you care to answer it? I have all of these files already in "Apple lossless" so what should I do with them? I'm not going to rescan several hundred vinyl and CD based albums.
If they are actually a lossless format you should be able to convert them back to wav or flac or directly to mp3, but in the latter case you can't ever get back to the original lossless data format.

But it it's a lossy format (and you can tell by the size of the files, if you have a 4 minute song that's only 3 mb or so it's in a lossy format) you will noticeably degrade the sound quality by converting to mp3.

Last edited by WildCat; 23rd December 2012 at 01:56 PM.
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Old 25th December 2012, 11:04 AM   #267
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I didn't read the whole thread, but in my opinion, iOS and Android are pretty close to being functionally equivalent for my use (I guess I'd call myself a "power user", somewhere between a developer/hacker and an average user). Why I've decided to standardize on iOS is for one reason and one reason only: with 3 iPhones, 1 iPad, and 1 iPad mini (and another iPad on the way) in my household, the ability to buy an app once and use it on all the mobile devices simultaneously. If those were all Android devices, I'd have to buy the same app 6 times to have them on all the devices (assuming they're all set up on different email accounts).
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Old 25th December 2012, 11:32 AM   #268
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Originally Posted by mortimer View Post
I didn't read the whole thread, but in my opinion, iOS and Android are pretty close to being functionally equivalent for my use (I guess I'd call myself a "power user", somewhere between a developer/hacker and an average user). Why I've decided to standardize on iOS is for one reason and one reason only: with 3 iPhones, 1 iPad, and 1 iPad mini (and another iPad on the way) in my household, the ability to buy an app once and use it on all the mobile devices simultaneously. If those were all Android devices, I'd have to buy the same app 6 times to have them on all the devices (assuming they're all set up on different email accounts).
This policy is dictated by the app publisher. Based on my experience/reading, you're generally wrong.
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Old 25th December 2012, 12:40 PM   #269
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Merry Christmas to me. My mom remembered a conversation we had a few months ago and surprised me with the freedom of a Nexus 7! She and Santa clearly know what's up.
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Old 25th December 2012, 06:10 PM   #270
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Originally Posted by SatansMaleVoiceChoir View Post

From personal experience (oooh sorry - I know how some of you hate that) - the majority of the minority of people I know with Android phones or devices didn't buy them because of Android; they bought them despite of, or unaware of Android; they bought them because of the features of the hardware, or the screen size, or the camera quality.
But wouldn't that count as part of the freedom issue? Namely, with Android you're free to get whichever hardware configuration suits you the best, something that isn't available with IOS. Apple puts out whatever hardware configuration they deem you need with very, very little in the way of options.

In fact, in many respects, that may be one of the biggest freedoms Android offers the average user...lotsa choices in terms of price, screen size, ports, etc. I know it's what convinced me (not a power user) to go with Android instead of IOS. Less money to some extent, but I could get something small and light for reading (since I was carrying it all day), but it could still do email, type a few quick story notes or do a simple bit of sketching. Far better solution for me than an IPAD and a phone wouldn't do what I want, so Apple didn't have me covered at all.
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Old 25th December 2012, 06:14 PM   #271
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Originally Posted by mortimer View Post
I didn't read the whole thread, but in my opinion, iOS and Android are pretty close to being functionally equivalent for my use (I guess I'd call myself a "power user", somewhere between a developer/hacker and an average user). Why I've decided to standardize on iOS is for one reason and one reason only: with 3 iPhones, 1 iPad, and 1 iPad mini (and another iPad on the way) in my household, the ability to buy an app once and use it on all the mobile devices simultaneously. If those were all Android devices, I'd have to buy the same app 6 times to have them on all the devices (assuming they're all set up on different email accounts).

I have a HD2 with Android as an alternitive boot option on the SD card. I also have an evo 3d. I have many of the same apps I have purchased installed on both phones. Both are linked to my gmail account, but this does not stop me from using other email accounts (ie Hotmail or Yahoo) with their various apps.
I also have access to my wifes gmail account and this allows me to install apps and movies SHE has purchased without any issues. (She has a Galaxy SIII) If you suggest an app that will not install on multiple devices under the one account I am happy to try it and get back to you with the results.
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Old 25th December 2012, 06:16 PM   #272
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I've not found any paid apps - bar those that are labelled as being incompatible with a particular device - that I can't install on all my household's Android devices.
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Old 25th December 2012, 06:25 PM   #273
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Originally Posted by SatansMaleVoiceChoir View Post
You see; this is one of the potential problems of this site; people become so enamoured with critical thinking and semantics that their ability to think in terms of the real world becomes lessened.

Just as Android represents 'freedom', so I am 'free' to go into space - maybe even walk on the moon. Nobody has forbade me from doing so; the technology exists so I certainly have the means, and it is something I am physically able to do. However, am I really 'free' to visit space/walk on the moon? I'd have to do all kinds of training and pass many physical and mental tests to be accepted by NASA; not to mention the tests and training that NASA would then put me through after being accepted. It's not entirely impossible that I could do all this, but really, in the real world? However, Virgin are offering flights into space for a fee. Have I got the kind of money they want? No. Could I feasibly save up that kind of money? Me - alas no. So that's not going to happen either.

So really, my 'freedom' to go into space/walk on the moon has a real-world end result no different from being told it is forbidden for me to do so.

Much like utilising Android to its full capability. Only a relative few can do it.

From personal experience (oooh sorry - I know how some of you hate that) - the majority of the minority of people I know with Android phones or devices didn't buy them because of Android; they bought them despite of, or unaware of Android; they bought them because of the features of the hardware, or the screen size, or the camera quality. This is why your average user won't utilise Android to it's full capacity, but yes they are 'free' to add neat little video clips to their home screen and things...

So, yeah - Android 'freedom'? No thanks; besides, I'm not willing to pay the price.
I do not know how to code or program, but I still benefit from many of the freedoms that Android offers. Before Android I was enjoying many of these freedoms with windows mobile from the days of compaq ipaqs.

Last edited by Hungry81; 25th December 2012 at 06:28 PM.
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Old 25th December 2012, 09:52 PM   #274
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I suggest this for a new Android ad song:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


Apple's theme song:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


Any questions?
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Old 25th December 2012, 10:37 PM   #275
Babbylonian
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Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
I suggest this for a new Android ad song:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


Apple's theme song:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


Any questions?
No questions, but the first song I thought of for Apple before I clicked open your link...
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
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Old 26th December 2012, 09:32 AM   #276
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My music library has been instantly searchable by keyword on a computer since 2002 or so. It has transferred from a Windows PC to an iMac to a Macbook and to several iPhones and iPods. I mean, iTunes is kinda bloatware, and the DRM stuff ticked me off, but that's just the RIAA Man keeping all of us down while technology marches on. At the risk of playing devil's advocate, is carrying around a bunch of SD cards relatively freer than that? Do you keep them in a little box or something?
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Old 26th December 2012, 11:33 AM   #277
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Carlitos, I don't think "a bunch of SD cards" is the proposition -- at least it's not my proposition.

I added a single 64gb card to my android phone. This isn't my primary storage though -- I permanently store my flac files on a network drive at home.

(I'll take this moment to reminisce about the days when I carried around a 5mb disk pack that weighed ~ 10 lbs for work purposes. It wouldn't hold one song today.)
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Old 26th December 2012, 04:42 PM   #278
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Hey, Back in the day I remember when I had to carry brand logos around on a SyQuest.
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Old 26th December 2012, 04:49 PM   #279
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Hey, Back in the day I remember when I had to carry brand logos around on a SyQuest.
And who could possibly need more than 44mb?
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Old 27th December 2012, 08:41 AM   #280
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
At the risk of playing devil's advocate, is carrying around a bunch of SD cards relatively freer than that? Do you keep them in a little box or something?
It's not really 'a bunch', you buy one 32+GB SD card for your phone and that's it. I use a 64GB card that I sync fairly big offline Spotify playlists to. It's also used as storage for apps that use a lot of disk space, like Evernote and some games.
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