Burning Man 2013 (It's never too early to start planning)

Wowbagger · 23rd December 2012, 07:20 PM

I had secured my Burning Man 2013 ticket during the Early Bird Holiday Sale, a few days ago. (Yes, it is more expensive that way. But, I don't care.) And even though it won't take place until August, I am commencing with preliminary survival plans, since this will be my first one.

I have read through the 2012 edition of their official Survival Guide. (The 2013 one is not available, yet.) So, I know all the basics. One previous burner dude advised me to bring EVERYTHING listed on there, even if they claim it is "optional": Optional things have a habit of becoming necessities out there, for someone. That sounds good to me.

So, the purpose of this thread is twofold:

1. Any additional advice or help or tips or whatever, from any of you previous burners out there, would be most welcomed.

2. Is there anyone ELSE on this forum planning to attend in 2013? I am looking for travel group options. Or, at the very least, we can meet up once we have arrived there.

I just wish the theme for this year wasn't something as wooish-sounding as "Cargo Cults".

The Central Scrutinizer · 24th December 2012, 07:03 AM

Camping in a hot, dusty desert with a bunch of sweaty hippies? Where do I sign up?

Wowbagger · 24th December 2012, 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer

Camping in a hot, dusty desert with a bunch of sweaty hippies?

Oh, it's much worse than that..... Some of them will be naked, too. Ugh.

Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer

Where do I sign up?

http://tickets.burningman.com/

If you can't get into the Holiday Sale, you'll have to wait until January 4th for "full ticket information".

Hope I don't really have to see you there!

paiute · 24th December 2012, 08:43 AM

Originally Posted by Wowbagger

I had secured my Burning Man 2013 ticket during the Early Bird Holiday Sale, a few days ago. (Yes, it is more expensive that way. But, I don't care.) And even though it won't take place until August, I am commencing with preliminary survival plans, since this will be my first one.

I have read through the 2012 edition of their official Survival Guide. (The 2013 one is not available, yet.) So, I know all the basics. One previous burner dude advised me to bring EVERYTHING listed on there, even if they claim it is "optional": Optional things have a habit of becoming necessities out there, for someone. That sounds good to me.

So, the purpose of this thread is twofold:

1. Any additional advice or help or tips or whatever, from any of you previous burners out there, would be most welcomed.

2. Is there anyone ELSE on this forum planning to attend in 2013? I am looking for travel group options. Or, at the very least, we can meet up once we have arrived there.

I just wish the theme for this year wasn't something as wooish-sounding as "Cargo Cults".

Never been, but grew up in the high desert nearby. If you are unfamiliar with that climate here are my recollections.

However much water/drinking liquids is recommended, add more. Moisture will be sucked out of your skin and you will be thirsty all the time. Bring extra glasses/tumblers. You will want to have glass of some liquid in your hand most of the time. Your nose will fill with solidified mucus regularly. Bring tissues/wet wipes/handkerchiefs. Bring extra lotion, sunblock, spare sunglasses and goggles. That sunburn cream which contains lidocaine. Hats, several hats with wide brims. Several heavy-duty (Home Depot industrial grade) spray bottles filled with water. (Water evaporates so quickly in the high desert that a spray of water is like a shot from a CO2 fire extinguisher to cool you off fast.) Gentle laxatives in case you lose so much water your stool forms bricks.

Wowbagger · 24th December 2012, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by paiute

Never been, but grew up in the high desert nearby. If you are unfamiliar with that climate here are my recollections.

However much water/drinking liquids is recommended, add more. Moisture will be sucked out of your skin and you will be thirsty all the time. Bring extra glasses/tumblers. You will want to have glass of some liquid in your hand most of the time. Your nose will fill with solidified mucus regularly. Bring tissues/wet wipes/handkerchiefs. Bring extra lotion, sunblock, spare sunglasses and goggles. That sunburn cream which contains lidocaine. Hats, several hats with wide brims. Several heavy-duty (Home Depot industrial grade) spray bottles filled with water. (Water evaporates so quickly in the high desert that a spray of water is like a shot from a CO2 fire extinguisher to cool you off fast.) Gentle laxatives in case you lose so much water your stool forms bricks.

Thanks!

Most of those items are covered by the Suvival Guide, but I will add the few that aren't on there to my list.

I have a squeeze breeze, (from Walt Disney World), that I will bring with me. Almost forgot I had it.

I am thinking I ought to bring a few paper-based books with me, in case there are time periods where I am bored (which I am sure are very rare, but not out of the question, since I will be there the whole week, and both the entrance and exodus involve being in long lines), and for some reason electicity is more scarce than expected.

paiute · 26th December 2012, 03:42 AM

Earplugs. In case you want to nap and the crowd or the wind on the playa is loud.

Dicon · 27th December 2012, 10:10 PM

The number one thing we always tell newbies to bring is saline nasal spray. A few shots each day will do wonders to keep you breathing clear.

Also, it took me several years to work out the best thing to do to keep my feet happy and it boils down to this: screw fashion, go 100% for comfort. The first thing I did every morning was clean my feet, slather them in lotion, put on a fresh pair of socks and then comfortable walking shoes. Do not go barefoot. Do not wear flip-flops. Treat your feet right and you'll be a much happier camper.

Skeptic Ginger · 28th December 2012, 12:22 AM

Go with a trailer/camper rather than a tent if possible. You can rent one in Reno. That's my only regret. The wind was relentless on the tent. Expect everything to be covered in dust. Go with the flow and just enjoy it.

I had no trouble with breathing.

Skeptic Ginger · 28th December 2012, 12:28 AM

I'd say the spray bottles would be great. Sometimes it was hard to cool off.

Didn't need any earplugs.

We were happy we had the camp sink and shower (if you go with the tent).

Our really cool pirate ship and dinosaur kites still didn't have enough wind to stay up from the camp site.

The Nickelodeon flash screens were a big hit.

Skeptic Ginger · 28th December 2012, 12:32 AM

Our cheap thrift store bikes were useful, go with fat tires. But there are also a lot of free bikes and we wanted to leave the bikes there but didn't because the message was, they had enough, don't leave any more. The bikes continue to rust in my backyard. I should have just returned them to the Goodwill.

Miss_Kitt · 28th December 2012, 01:03 AM

A friend of mine attended a few years ago, he got one of those camel-style water backpacks with drinking tube and said it was a good way to stay hydrated. No chance to lose, knock over, or break a cup; no dust in your water; and a balanced load to carry.

Pretty much any desert event requires that bring more water than you think you'll possibly need. Saline nasal spray, ditto.

Also, you might petition to move this thread to another sub-forum, since I would not consider Burning Man by any stretch of the imagination a skeptical event!

Best wishes, have fun, MK

Gilmar · 28th December 2012, 03:36 AM

Yup, Camelbak hydration systems are good. And a headband-mounted LED flashlight. I would call Burning Man a techno-hippie celebration; you will find any and all things there. I like the art projects; I've seen things I could never have thought of. I don't know if I'll ever go again (went in 2003), but it can be quite an experience.

Do you have people you know going? It's helpful to be with others, or at least have others you know there.

Orphia Nay · 28th December 2012, 04:32 AM

What on earth has possessed you to go to Burning Man, Wowbags?

Looking for more people to insult on your list?

Wowbagger · 28th December 2012, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by paiute

Earplugs. In case you want to nap and the crowd or the wind on the playa is loud.

Already mentioned in the survival guide.

Not sure if I will need them. I have a talent for sleeping well under any distractions. But, it couldn’t hurt to bring some, just in case.

Originally Posted by Dicon

The number one thing we always tell newbies to bring is saline nasal spray. A few shots each day will do wonders to keep you breathing clear.

Sounds good.

Originally Posted by Dicon

Also, it took me several years to work out the best thing to do to keep my feet happy and it boils down to this: screw fashion, go 100% for comfort. The first thing I did every morning was clean my feet, slather them in lotion, put on a fresh pair of socks and then comfortable walking shoes. Do not go barefoot. Do not wear flip-flops. Treat your feet right and you'll be a much happier camper.

Perhaps my usual sneakers will be just fine.

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Go with a trailer/camper rather than a tent if possible. You can rent one in Reno. That's my only regret. The wind was relentless on the tent. Expect everything to be covered in dust. Go with the flow and just enjoy it.

I am considering doing that. It depends on who else I go with, and what their plans are.

I have somewhat tentative offer, already, from someone I know who owns a van. I wonder if sleeping in a van, for a week, is good enough? (I only slept in a van for one night, once.) We will pack other things like portable showers and whatever else people bring when using a tent. But, in place of the tent it will be a van.

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

I'd say the spray bottles would be great. Sometimes it was hard to cool off.

Spray bottles are mentioned in the survival guide. I have something better than a spray bottle: A squeeze breeze. It's a combination spray bottle and fan.

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Our cheap thrift store bikes were useful, go with fat tires. But there are also a lot of free bikes and we wanted to leave the bikes there but didn't because the message was, they had enough, don't leave any more. The bikes continue to rust in my backyard. I should have just returned them to the Goodwill.

I was considering bringing my own bike along. Decorating it in some fairly interesting manner.
The baggage fees will be hefty, if I fly in (and I most likely will), but I think I can handle that.

Originally Posted by Miss_Kitt

A friend of mine attended a few years ago, he got one of those camel-style water backpacks with drinking tube and said it was a good way to stay hydrated. No chance to lose, knock over, or break a cup; no dust in your water; and a balanced load to carry.

Good idea.

Originally Posted by Miss_Kitt

Also, you might petition to move this thread to another sub-forum, since I would not consider Burning Man by any stretch of the imagination a skeptical event!

From what I understand, there is a sizable section of science and skeptical folks there. I know that, technically, that’s not what it’s about. (Otherwise they would not use "Cargo Cults" as a theme.)
But, technically, Dragon*Con is not a skeptical event, either.

If more people think this belongs elsewhere, perhaps in Community, I guess it could move there.

Originally Posted by Gilmar

Do you have people you know going? It's helpful to be with others, or at least have others you know there.

I know a few people who would LIKE to go. But, none of them bought tickets as early as I did. There is a good chance some of them will buy tickets during the normal ticket-buying time period.

Originally Posted by Orphia Nay

What on earth has possessed you to go to Burning Man, Wowbags?

I have momentary fits of mental madness, that make me do all sorts of random, crazy things, every now and then: Jumping from airplanes, test firing weapons at a range, writing apps. with languages that are not type-safe, buying Burning Man tickets, etc., etc. None of these would make sense to my rational brain, but then I am crazy enough to stick to these commitments once I start them, anyway.

...Actually, the real reason is that I weighed the negative stuff against the really cool positive stuff, and the positive stuff came out ahead. The desert is something one needs to survive in. The drunk, high and/or nude people are something I am going to have to roll my eyes at, and just deal with.

In return I get to experience the biggest, baddest showing of creative stuff the country has to offer!

And, as a bonus, I suspect there will be some unique tech and science related stuff going on, as well.
For example: I know they have had TEDx conferences inside Burning Man, before. Not sure if there will be one this year or not. But, even if there isn't something with that name, I think there is a good chance something else like that will be around to take its place.

Skeptic Ginger · 28th December 2012, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by Wowbagger

Perhaps my usual sneakers will be just fine.

Sneakers, anything you'd wear on flat ground with a lot of blowing dirt. Good flip flops are useful.

Originally Posted by Wowbagger

I have somewhat tentative offer, already, from someone I know who owns a van. I wonder if sleeping in a van, for a week, is good enough? (I only slept in a van for one night, once.) We will pack other things like portable showers and whatever else people bring when using a tent. But, in place of the tent it will be a van.

Camper's better than a van which is better than a tent. It's nice to have a place to hang out if a sandstorm blows in. One of the nights we were there it was a seriously total sand out, almost couldn't find our way back to camp. We had to sit in the car just to survive.

Originally Posted by Wowbagger

I was considering bringing my own bike along. Decorating it in some fairly interesting manner.
The baggage fees will be hefty, if I fly in (and I most likely will), but I think I can handle that.

Keep in mind the bike will take a dirt beating. If it's an expensive bike with fancy mechanics I'd leave it. If it's a cheap bike then covering it with lights and stuff is fun.

Originally Posted by Wowbagger

In return I get to experience the biggest, baddest showing of creative stuff the country has to offer!

And, as a bonus, I suspect there will be some unique tech and science related stuff going on, as well.
For example: I know they have had TEDx conferences inside Burning Man, before. Not sure if there will be one this year or not. But, even if there isn't something with that name, I think there is a good chance something else like that will be around to take its place.

It is an experience not to be missed in one's lifetime.

Wowbagger · 28th December 2012, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Keep in mind the bike will take a dirt beating. If it's an expensive bike with fancy mechanics I'd leave it. If it's a cheap bike then covering it with lights and stuff is fun.

It's an old bike. Average mechanics for its day. I certainly don't mind getting it beat up. It's taken a few beatings before.

paiute · 28th December 2012, 04:53 PM

Originally Posted by Wowbagger

I just wish the theme for this year wasn't something as wooish-sounding as "Cargo Cults".

Why do you associate cargo cults with woo? They are and were real and documented bizarre and interesting aspects of the interaction of cultures.

Dicon · 28th December 2012, 08:02 PM

Don't bother with a shower setup. They require a lot of water to use, and then you end up with a lot of gray water to deal with (and I'll let you in on another secret: gray water evaporation ponds are essentially worthless). Instead, take a spray bottle with some soapy water, a small bowl, and a couple of washcloths. You can get much cleaner than you would with a shower while using far less water.

The one time we would splurge on a full shower is at the very end of the event. After the camp is fully broken down and the vehicle is completely packed, use your remaining water to do a full-body rinse. Then take your hermetically sealed bag of exodus clothes (you are planning to pack a hermetically sealed bag of exodus clothes, aren't you?), open it, get dressed, step into your car and get the hell out of there.

We camped in all sorts of things in the 12 years we attended, but what we settled into toward the end was simply sleeping in the back of our minivan. It was by far the quietest solution and it was great to not have a tent to deal with.

Dicon · 28th December 2012, 08:07 PM

Originally Posted by paiute

Why do you associate cargo cults with woo? They are and were real and documented bizarre and interesting aspects of the interaction of cultures.

The use of cargo cults for a Burning Man theme is rather hilarious and I'm not sure everyone attending is quite grasping the irony. Structuring a theme around a community building massive things and performing rituals in hopes of something great happening -- though it never does -- is really funny.

I thought it was a prank when I first heard about it.

Skeptic Ginger · 28th December 2012, 08:31 PM

Originally Posted by Dicon

Don't bother with a shower setup. They require a lot of water to use, and they you end up with a lot of gray water to deal with (and I'll let you in on another secret: gray water evaporation ponds are essentially worthless). Instead, take a spray bottle with some soapy water, a small bowl, and a couple of washcloths. You can get much cleaner than you would with a shower while using far less water.

The one time we would splurge on a full shower is at the very end of the event. After the camp is fully broken down and the vehicle is completely packed, use your remaining water to do a full-body rinse. Then take your hermetically sealed bag of exodus clothes (you are planning to pack a hermetically sealed bag of exodus clothes, aren't you?), open it, get dressed, step into your car and get the hell out of there.

We camped in all sorts of things in the 12 years we attended, but what we settled into toward the end was simply sleeping in the back of our minivan. It was by far the quietest solution and it was great to not have a tent to deal with.

I know you've been there way more times than me but we had one of those camping solar showers and I, for one, was glad we did. We used plastic sheeting to collect the water (nothing fancy) and it all evaporated just fine. You can shower in the open and if you're shy use swim wear.

For our kitchen sink I found a camping sink/table set up similar to this one for $20 bucks at a thrift store. It had a drain hose and we used a collapsible container to collect that waste water and hauled it out.

One of the best investments we made was getting a camping toilet. Soooo much better than hiking to the outhouses though we did use those on occasion. They have these little pee bags that are easy to use and easy to haul out on the top of the car.

We had a two room tent. One lesson learned, use rebar for the stakes if you go with the tent. And get there in the daylight. Besides the tent we also had a pop up shade that we kept the bikes and the car under. I'm big on shade.

Of course this is all moot if you have a camper, except maybe the pop up shade.

My situation was different than coming by air. My son and I left Seattle, drove to Yellowstone, enjoyed a week+ there then circled around to Gerlach on the way back. I have a Subaru Outback. So we could pack all that stuff without any problems. We bought the water at the last city before Burning Man, tied gallons and gallons to the top of the car. We had plenty left over.

Dang, all this talk makes me want to go again.

Wowbagger · 29th December 2012, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by paiute

Why do you associate cargo cults with woo? They are and were real and documented bizarre and interesting aspects of the interaction of cultures.

Yes, they were (and still are) real. A real form of mass delusion. Granted, we are dealing with populations that could not have understood any better, perhaps, which is sad. But, it is still a delusion.

There seems to be a bit of an emphasis on John Frum, in their descriptions, which leads me to think this is more about that type of futile faith, than about history and culture.

I am sure it won't be all bad. I can only image what sorts of funky model airplanes will be on display!

Originally Posted by Dicon

Don't bother with a shower setup. They require a lot of water to use, and then you end up with a lot of gray water to deal with (and I'll let you in on another secret: gray water evaporation ponds are essentially worthless). Instead, take a spray bottle with some soapy water, a small bowl, and a couple of washcloths. You can get much cleaner than you would with a shower while using far less water.

Something to consider.

Originally Posted by Dicon

Then take your hermetically sealed bag of exodus clothes (you are planning to pack a hermetically sealed bag of exodus clothes, aren't you?)

I did think about preparing a set of clothes for leaving (which I typically do when travelling to exotic or unusual locales). Though, I did not consider the idea of keeping it hermetically sealed.

Originally Posted by Dicon

step into your car and get the hell out of there.

If only it were that easy. From what I understand, the Exodus procedure is mighty slow, and done in shifts.

Originally Posted by Dicon

We camped in all sorts of things in the 12 years we attended, but what we settled into toward the end was simply sleeping in the back of our minivan. It was by far the quietest solution and it was great to not have a tent to deal with.

Yeah, that does sound adequate.

Originally Posted by Dicon

Structuring a theme around a community building massive things and performing rituals in hopes of something great happening -- though it never does -- is really funny.

A real knee-slapper!

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Dang, all this talk makes me want to go again.

Thanks for the useful product links! Perhaps the more we talk, the more you WILL be inclined to go again!

jj · 4th January 2013, 08:13 AM

Wow, just read that whole thing. We don't have a car big enough to carry the water required (and make no mistake about it, I understand water requirements in the desert).

Too old I am, he says. Too old.

Wowbagger · 4th January 2013, 10:27 AM

"Full Ticket Information" should be getting released, today, for those interested. Whatever that means.

Do people bring items with them for bartering? I have a few old, but still kinda cool, toys and things I can bring for trading with folks for various other things I might want. In a 99% cashless society, I suspect such things might be useful.

Skeptic Ginger · 4th January 2013, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by jj

Wow, just read that whole thing. We don't have a car big enough to carry the water required (and make no mistake about it, I understand water requirements in the desert).

Too old I am, he says. Too old.

Pushaw! If I wasn't too old, neither are you. And we didn't use half the water we brought so it's probably an overestimate.

If you have the money, however, rent a motorhome in Reno. That's the way to go when you are a more 'mature' fella.

Skeptic Ginger · 4th January 2013, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by Wowbagger

"Full Ticket Information" should be getting released, today, for those interested. Whatever that means.

Do people bring items with them for bartering? I have a few old, but still kinda cool, toys and things I can bring for trading with folks for various other things I might want. In a 99% cashless society, I suspect such things might be useful.

They sell drinks (iced and coffee type things) for cash in the center house. We never 'acquired' anything else. They sell ice too, but we stuck to foods that didn't need ice to keep.

Dicon · 4th January 2013, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by Wowbagger

Do people bring items with them for bartering? I have a few old, but still kinda cool, toys and things I can bring for trading with folks for various other things I might want. In a 99% cashless society, I suspect such things might be useful.

Technically, it's a gift economy rather than a barter economy. I wouldn't bother packing and transporting things to trade away... now, if you're OK with just giving them away and they are things that someone might actually want/need, that's a different story.

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

And we didn't use half the water we brought so it's probably an overestimate.

This is very common as most people take way, way too much water their first couple trips. I tell people to err on the side of taking too little; if you do happen to run out there are plenty of others around you who have some to spare.

I think we were typically using less than a gallon a day for the two of us. We did, however, also have other mostly-water-based drinks like Gatorade and Diet Coke.

Dicon · 4th January 2013, 03:10 PM

A conversation I recently had reminds me of another piece of important advice: Nothing happens when it is supposed to happen, if it happens at all. You'll hear any references to "playa time" and you'll soon learn that it's a very real thing. Someone says they'll meet you in Center Camp at noon? They might wander in around 2:30 the next day.

When you arrive, the Greeters give you a booklet called the What Where When guide. It is filled with hundreds of event listings, many of which you are bound to find interesting. The only problem is that these listings were submitted by well-intentioned people many months in advance. Since that time, many of them have had to change their plans, some had to cancel their trip, some passed out right after they arrived and will be sleeping through the whole week, some just don't care. Consider the guide to be a mere suggestion of things that might happen at some time at some place... but probably won't.

On the playa, it's all about Plan B. Or C.

Skeptic Ginger · 4th January 2013, 07:01 PM

Originally Posted by Dicon

Technically, it's a gift economy rather than a barter economy. I wouldn't bother packing and transporting things to trade away... now, if you're OK with just giving them away and they are things that someone might actually want/need, that's a different story....

We took a box of dust masks and handed them out when it got windy.

Wowbagger · 4th January 2013, 07:23 PM

Originally Posted by Dicon

Technically, it's a gift economy rather than a barter economy.

Perhaps a small box of things to give away might suffice.

I'll bring some snacks to gift away, also. Unfortunately, Tim-Tams are likely to melt out there. So, I'll pick up something hardier.

Originally Posted by Dicon

When you arrive, the Greeters give you a booklet called the What Where When guide. It is filled with hundreds of event listings, many of which you are bound to find interesting. The only problem is that these listings were submitted by well-intentioned people many months in advance. Since that time, many of them have had to change their plans, some had to cancel their trip, some passed out right after they arrived and will be sleeping through the whole week, some just don't care. Consider the guide to be a mere suggestion of things that might happen at some time at some place... but probably won't.

They should just have an interactive version, already!

Perhaps something low tech, like a wall with with time slots and locations. People can add a strip of tape with words scribbled on it to descibe the event. Kinda like what a lot of BarCamps do.

Wowbagger · 6th January 2013, 06:20 AM

February 6th is the day to sign up for the regular ticket sale. Just thought I'd mention that.

paiute · 6th January 2013, 07:00 AM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

We took a box of dust masks and handed them out when it got windy.

Try this new product:

http://www.vogmask.com/

Wowbagger · 31st January 2013, 06:02 PM

I wonder if it pays to organize a SkeptiCamp type of thing at Burning Man. Maybe call it: SkeptiCamp Black Rock or SkeptiCamp Playa, or something. Would there be enough interest, does anyone think?

There might be a BarCamp at Burning Man, as there were in some previous years.

The Central Scrutinizer · 31st January 2013, 07:17 PM

I'm not interested.

littleelvira · 31st January 2013, 08:20 PM

Originally Posted by Wowbagger

I had secured my Burning Man 2013 ticket during the Early Bird Holiday Sale, a few days ago. (Yes, it is more expensive that way. But, I don't care.) And even though it won't take place until August, I am commencing with preliminary survival plans, since this will be my first one.

I have read through the 2012 edition of their official Survival Guide. (The 2013 one is not available, yet.) So, I know all the basics. One previous burner dude advised me to bring EVERYTHING listed on there, even if they claim it is "optional": Optional things have a habit of becoming necessities out there, for someone. That sounds good to me.

So, the purpose of this thread is twofold:

1. Any additional advice or help or tips or whatever, from any of you previous burners out there, would be most welcomed.

2. Is there anyone ELSE on this forum planning to attend in 2013? I am looking for travel group options. Or, at the very least, we can meet up once we have arrived there.

I just wish the theme for this year wasn't something as wooish-sounding as "Cargo Cults".

What is the point to that thing? A super creative temporary city?

Wowbagger · 31st January 2013, 09:11 PM

Originally Posted by littleelvira

What is the point to that thing? A super creative temporary city?

Yeeee-Haw!

Skeptic Ginger · 1st February 2013, 12:33 AM

Originally Posted by Wowbagger

I wonder if it pays to organize a SkeptiCamp type of thing at Burning Man. Maybe call it: SkeptiCamp Black Rock or SkeptiCamp Playa, or something. Would there be enough interest, does anyone think?

There might be a BarCamp at Burning Man, as there were in some previous years.

Not sure how you define "pays" but I think it's a superb idea.

Wowbagger · 1st February 2013, 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Not sure how you define "pays" but I think it's a superb idea.

By "pays" I mean: It might take a bit of planning effort. Perhaps a bit less than the NYC SkeptiCamp. Would interest match that effort?

Are projectors readily available around the place, or should I haul my own over, in case people need one? (I know I would like one, for my own session ideas.)

Skeptic Ginger · 1st February 2013, 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by Wowbagger

By "pays" I mean: It might take a bit of planning effort. Perhaps a bit less than the NYC SkeptiCamp. Would interest match that effort?

Are projectors readily available around the place, or should I haul my own over, in case people need one? (I know I would like one, for my own session ideas.)

No projectors. There's a center camp with the concession stand and lots of spaces to hang out in between the art displays. There are various tent areas people set up for their own campy thing and the first aid tent. I think there was a bike repair tent, stuff like that.

I don't think too many people would be interested in listening to a 'talk'. You'd need to do it as a visual and make it very artsy. Burning Man is a giant participatory art event; learning stuff, not so much. Regulars come early bring lots of lumbar and rebar and build their camps. The rest typically have camps big and small like you'd see at a big campground.

I wasn't thinking of a skepticamp like the events we have, I was thinking more along the lines of just promoting critical thinking.

Wowbagger · 1st February 2013, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

I wasn't thinking of a skepticamp like the events we have, I was thinking more along the lines of just promoting critical thinking.

I suppose I can find a way to promote skepticism (and science!) to everyone, in an open, artsy manner, through something like this.

Just gotta find the right angle of funkiness, or something.

Skeptic Ginger · 1st February 2013, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by Wowbagger

I suppose I can find a way to promote skepticism (and science!) to everyone, in an open, artsy manner, through something like this.

Just gotta find the right angle of funkiness, or something.

I tried to get the JREF to fund putting the logo on the dust masks I handed out, but they weren't interested.

23rd December 2012, 07:20 PM	#1
Wowbagger The Infinitely Prolonged Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Westchester County, NY (when not in space) Posts: 14,703	Burning Man 2013 (It's never too early to start planning) I had secured my Burning Man 2013 ticket during the Early Bird Holiday Sale, a few days ago. (Yes, it is more expensive that way. But, I don't care.) And even though it won't take place until August, I am commencing with preliminary survival plans, since this will be my first one. I have read through the 2012 edition of their official Survival Guide. (The 2013 one is not available, yet.) So, I know all the basics. One previous burner dude advised me to bring EVERYTHING listed on there, even if they claim it is "optional": Optional things have a habit of becoming necessities out there, for someone. That sounds good to me. So, the purpose of this thread is twofold: 1. Any additional advice or help or tips or whatever, from any of you previous burners out there, would be most welcomed. 2. Is there anyone ELSE on this forum planning to attend in 2013? I am looking for travel group options. Or, at the very least, we can meet up once we have arrived there. I just wish the theme for this year wasn't something as wooish-sounding as "Cargo Cults".
	__________________ WARNING: Phrases in this post may sound meaner than they were intended to be. SkeptiCamp NYC: http://www.skepticampnyc.org/ An open conference on science and skepticism, where *you* could be a presenter! By the way, my first name is NOT Bowerick!!!!

24th December 2012, 07:03 AM	#2
The Central Scrutinizer Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 48,577	Camping in a hot, dusty desert with a bunch of sweaty hippies? Where do I sign up?
	__________________ If I see somebody with a gun on a plane? I'll kill him. Lupus is Lupus tor central scrutineezer

24th December 2012, 08:33 AM	#3
Wowbagger The Infinitely Prolonged Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Westchester County, NY (when not in space) Posts: 14,703	Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer Camping in a hot, dusty desert with a bunch of sweaty hippies? Oh, it's much worse than that..... Some of them will be naked, too. Ugh. Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer Where do I sign up? http://tickets.burningman.com/ If you can't get into the Holiday Sale, you'll have to wait until January 4th for "full ticket information". Hope I don't really have to see you there!
	__________________ WARNING: Phrases in this post may sound meaner than they were intended to be. SkeptiCamp NYC: http://www.skepticampnyc.org/ An open conference on science and skepticism, where *you* could be a presenter! By the way, my first name is NOT Bowerick!!!!

24th December 2012, 08:43 AM	#4
paiute Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,251	Originally Posted by Wowbagger I had secured my Burning Man 2013 ticket during the Early Bird Holiday Sale, a few days ago. (Yes, it is more expensive that way. But, I don't care.) And even though it won't take place until August, I am commencing with preliminary survival plans, since this will be my first one. I have read through the 2012 edition of their official Survival Guide. (The 2013 one is not available, yet.) So, I know all the basics. One previous burner dude advised me to bring EVERYTHING listed on there, even if they claim it is "optional": Optional things have a habit of becoming necessities out there, for someone. That sounds good to me. So, the purpose of this thread is twofold: 1. Any additional advice or help or tips or whatever, from any of you previous burners out there, would be most welcomed. 2. Is there anyone ELSE on this forum planning to attend in 2013? I am looking for travel group options. Or, at the very least, we can meet up once we have arrived there. I just wish the theme for this year wasn't something as wooish-sounding as "Cargo Cults". Never been, but grew up in the high desert nearby. If you are unfamiliar with that climate here are my recollections. However much water/drinking liquids is recommended, add more. Moisture will be sucked out of your skin and you will be thirsty all the time. Bring extra glasses/tumblers. You will want to have glass of some liquid in your hand most of the time. Your nose will fill with solidified mucus regularly. Bring tissues/wet wipes/handkerchiefs. Bring extra lotion, sunblock, spare sunglasses and goggles. That sunburn cream which contains lidocaine. Hats, several hats with wide brims. Several heavy-duty (Home Depot industrial grade) spray bottles filled with water. (Water evaporates so quickly in the high desert that a spray of water is like a shot from a CO2 fire extinguisher to cool you off fast.) Gentle laxatives in case you lose so much water your stool forms bricks.
paiute Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,251	__________________ A Novel and Efficient Synthesis of Cadaverine Organic chemistry, vengeful ghosts, and high explosives. What could possibly go wrong? Now free for download! http://www.scribd.com/doc/36568510/A...-of-Cadaverine

24th December 2012, 05:06 PM	#5
Wowbagger The Infinitely Prolonged Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Westchester County, NY (when not in space) Posts: 14,703	Originally Posted by paiute Never been, but grew up in the high desert nearby. If you are unfamiliar with that climate here are my recollections. However much water/drinking liquids is recommended, add more. Moisture will be sucked out of your skin and you will be thirsty all the time. Bring extra glasses/tumblers. You will want to have glass of some liquid in your hand most of the time. Your nose will fill with solidified mucus regularly. Bring tissues/wet wipes/handkerchiefs. Bring extra lotion, sunblock, spare sunglasses and goggles. That sunburn cream which contains lidocaine. Hats, several hats with wide brims. Several heavy-duty (Home Depot industrial grade) spray bottles filled with water. (Water evaporates so quickly in the high desert that a spray of water is like a shot from a CO2 fire extinguisher to cool you off fast.) Gentle laxatives in case you lose so much water your stool forms bricks. Thanks! Most of those items are covered by the Suvival Guide, but I will add the few that aren't on there to my list. I have a squeeze breeze, (from Walt Disney World), that I will bring with me. Almost forgot I had it. I am thinking I ought to bring a few paper-based books with me, in case there are time periods where I am bored (which I am sure are very rare, but not out of the question, since I will be there the whole week, and both the entrance and exodus involve being in long lines), and for some reason electicity is more scarce than expected.
	__________________ WARNING: Phrases in this post may sound meaner than they were intended to be. SkeptiCamp NYC: http://www.skepticampnyc.org/ An open conference on science and skepticism, where *you* could be a presenter! By the way, my first name is NOT Bowerick!!!!

26th December 2012, 03:42 AM	#6
paiute Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,251	Earplugs. In case you want to nap and the crowd or the wind on the playa is loud.
paiute Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,251	__________________ A Novel and Efficient Synthesis of Cadaverine Organic chemistry, vengeful ghosts, and high explosives. What could possibly go wrong? Now free for download! http://www.scribd.com/doc/36568510/A...-of-Cadaverine

27th December 2012, 10:10 PM	#7
Dicon is not a radish Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 3,110	The number one thing we always tell newbies to bring is saline nasal spray. A few shots each day will do wonders to keep you breathing clear. Also, it took me several years to work out the best thing to do to keep my feet happy and it boils down to this: screw fashion, go 100% for comfort. The first thing I did every morning was clean my feet, slather them in lotion, put on a fresh pair of socks and then comfortable walking shoes. Do not go barefoot. Do not wear flip-flops. Treat your feet right and you'll be a much happier camper.
Dicon is not a radish Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 3,110

28th December 2012, 12:22 AM	#8
Skeptic Ginger formerly skeptigirl Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 44,969	Go with a trailer/camper rather than a tent if possible. You can rent one in Reno. That's my only regret. The wind was relentless on the tent. Expect everything to be covered in dust. Go with the flow and just enjoy it. I had no trouble with breathing.
	__________________ (*Tired of continuing to hear the "Democrat Party" repeatedly I've decided to adopt the name, ~~Pubbie Party, Repubs~~ "Republics" and Republic Party in response.)

28th December 2012, 12:28 AM	#9
Skeptic Ginger formerly skeptigirl Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 44,969	I'd say the spray bottles would be great. Sometimes it was hard to cool off. Didn't need any earplugs. We were happy we had the camp sink and shower (if you go with the tent). Our really cool pirate ship and dinosaur kites still didn't have enough wind to stay up from the camp site. The Nickelodeon flash screens were a big hit.
	__________________ (*Tired of continuing to hear the "Democrat Party" repeatedly I've decided to adopt the name, ~~Pubbie Party, Repubs~~ "Republics" and Republic Party in response.)

28th December 2012, 12:32 AM	#10
Skeptic Ginger formerly skeptigirl Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 44,969	Our cheap thrift store bikes were useful, go with fat tires. But there are also a lot of free bikes and we wanted to leave the bikes there but didn't because the message was, they had enough, don't leave any more. The bikes continue to rust in my backyard. I should have just returned them to the Goodwill.
	__________________ (*Tired of continuing to hear the "Democrat Party" repeatedly I've decided to adopt the name, ~~Pubbie Party, Repubs~~ "Republics" and Republic Party in response.)

28th December 2012, 01:03 AM	#11
Miss_Kitt Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 3,882	A friend of mine attended a few years ago, he got one of those camel-style water backpacks with drinking tube and said it was a good way to stay hydrated. No chance to lose, knock over, or break a cup; no dust in your water; and a balanced load to carry. Pretty much any desert event requires that bring more water than you think you'll possibly need. Saline nasal spray, ditto. Also, you might petition to move this thread to another sub-forum, since I would not consider Burning Man by any stretch of the imagination a skeptical event! Best wishes, have fun, MK
Miss_Kitt Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 3,882

28th December 2012, 03:36 AM	#12
Gilmar Muse Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 603	Yup, Camelbak hydration systems are good. And a headband-mounted LED flashlight. I would call Burning Man a techno-hippie celebration; you will find any and all things there. I like the art projects; I've seen things I could never have thought of. I don't know if I'll ever go again (went in 2003), but it can be quite an experience. Do you have people you know going? It's helpful to be with others, or at least have others you know there.
Gilmar Muse Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 603	__________________ Woo, woo, woo, woo, woo, I'm pulling over the side of the road to let the ambulance drive by. - Senex "World domination is such an ugly phrase. I prefer to call it world optimization." - Less Wrong You can't make Frodo a Jedi without giving Sauron the Death Star. - Less Wrong

28th December 2012, 04:32 AM	#13
Orphia Nay Penguilicious Spodmaster. Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables). Posts: 34,398	What on earth has possessed you to go to Burning Man, Wowbags? Looking for more people to insult on your list?
	__________________ The Australasian Skeptics Forum.

28th December 2012, 01:49 PM	#14
Wowbagger The Infinitely Prolonged Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Westchester County, NY (when not in space) Posts: 14,703	Originally Posted by paiute Earplugs. In case you want to nap and the crowd or the wind on the playa is loud. Already mentioned in the survival guide. Not sure if I will need them. I have a talent for sleeping well under any distractions. But, it couldn’t hurt to bring some, just in case. Originally Posted by Dicon The number one thing we always tell newbies to bring is saline nasal spray. A few shots each day will do wonders to keep you breathing clear. Sounds good. Originally Posted by Dicon Also, it took me several years to work out the best thing to do to keep my feet happy and it boils down to this: screw fashion, go 100% for comfort. The first thing I did every morning was clean my feet, slather them in lotion, put on a fresh pair of socks and then comfortable walking shoes. Do not go barefoot. Do not wear flip-flops. Treat your feet right and you'll be a much happier camper. Perhaps my usual sneakers will be just fine. Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger Go with a trailer/camper rather than a tent if possible. You can rent one in Reno. That's my only regret. The wind was relentless on the tent. Expect everything to be covered in dust. Go with the flow and just enjoy it. I am considering doing that. It depends on who else I go with, and what their plans are. I have somewhat tentative offer, already, from someone I know who owns a van. I wonder if sleeping in a van, for a week, is good enough? (I only slept in a van for one night, once.) We will pack other things like portable showers and whatever else people bring when using a tent. But, in place of the tent it will be a van. Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger I'd say the spray bottles would be great. Sometimes it was hard to cool off. Spray bottles are mentioned in the survival guide. I have something better than a spray bottle: A squeeze breeze. It's a combination spray bottle and fan. Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger Our cheap thrift store bikes were useful, go with fat tires. But there are also a lot of free bikes and we wanted to leave the bikes there but didn't because the message was, they had enough, don't leave any more. The bikes continue to rust in my backyard. I should have just returned them to the Goodwill. I was considering bringing my own bike along. Decorating it in some fairly interesting manner. The baggage fees will be hefty, if I fly in (and I most likely will), but I think I can handle that. Originally Posted by Miss_Kitt A friend of mine attended a few years ago, he got one of those camel-style water backpacks with drinking tube and said it was a good way to stay hydrated. No chance to lose, knock over, or break a cup; no dust in your water; and a balanced load to carry. Good idea. Originally Posted by Miss_Kitt Also, you might petition to move this thread to another sub-forum, since I would not consider Burning Man by any stretch of the imagination a skeptical event! From what I understand, there is a sizable section of science and skeptical folks there. I know that, technically, that’s not what it’s about. (Otherwise they would not use "Cargo Cults" as a theme.) But, technically, DragonCon is not a skeptical event, either. If more people think this belongs elsewhere, perhaps in Community, I guess it could move there. Originally Posted by Gilmar* Do you have people you know going? It's helpful to be with others, or at least have others you know there. I know a few people who would LIKE to go. But, none of them bought tickets as early as I did. There is a good chance some of them will buy tickets during the normal ticket-buying time period. Originally Posted by Orphia Nay What on earth has possessed you to go to Burning Man, Wowbags? I have momentary fits of mental madness, that make me do all sorts of random, crazy things, every now and then: Jumping from airplanes, test firing weapons at a range, writing apps. with languages that are not type-safe, buying Burning Man tickets, etc., etc. None of these would make sense to my rational brain, but then I am crazy enough to stick to these commitments once I start them, anyway. ...Actually, the real reason is that I weighed the negative stuff against the really cool positive stuff, and the positive stuff came out ahead. The desert is something one needs to survive in. The drunk, high and/or nude people are something I am going to have to roll my eyes at, and just deal with. In return I get to experience the biggest, baddest showing of creative stuff the country has to offer! And, as a bonus, I suspect there will be some unique tech and science related stuff going on, as well. For example: I know they have had TEDx conferences inside Burning Man, before. Not sure if there will be one this year or not. But, even if there isn't something with that name, I think there is a good chance something else like that will be around to take its place.
	__________________ WARNING: Phrases in this post may sound meaner than they were intended to be. SkeptiCamp NYC: http://www.skepticampnyc.org/ An open conference on science and skepticism, where *you* could be a presenter! By the way, my first name is NOT Bowerick!!!!

28th December 2012, 02:17 PM	#15
Skeptic Ginger formerly skeptigirl Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 44,969	Originally Posted by Wowbagger Perhaps my usual sneakers will be just fine. Sneakers, anything you'd wear on flat ground with a lot of blowing dirt. Good flip flops are useful. Originally Posted by Wowbagger I have somewhat tentative offer, already, from someone I know who owns a van. I wonder if sleeping in a van, for a week, is good enough? (I only slept in a van for one night, once.) We will pack other things like portable showers and whatever else people bring when using a tent. But, in place of the tent it will be a van. Camper's better than a van which is better than a tent. It's nice to have a place to hang out if a sandstorm blows in. One of the nights we were there it was a seriously total sand out, almost couldn't find our way back to camp. We had to sit in the car just to survive. Originally Posted by Wowbagger I was considering bringing my own bike along. Decorating it in some fairly interesting manner. The baggage fees will be hefty, if I fly in (and I most likely will), but I think I can handle that. Keep in mind the bike will take a dirt beating. If it's an expensive bike with fancy mechanics I'd leave it. If it's a cheap bike then covering it with lights and stuff is fun. Originally Posted by Wowbagger In return I get to experience the biggest, baddest showing of creative stuff the country has to offer! And, as a bonus, I suspect there will be some unique tech and science related stuff going on, as well. For example: I know they have had TEDx conferences inside Burning Man, before. Not sure if there will be one this year or not. But, even if there isn't something with that name, I think there is a good chance something else like that will be around to take its place. It is an experience not to be missed in one's lifetime.
	__________________ (Tired of continuing to hear the "Democrat Party" repeatedly I've decided to adopt the name, ~~Pubbie Party, Repubs~~ "Republics" and Republic Party in response.) Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 28th December 2012 at 02:19 PM.*

28th December 2012, 04:19 PM	#16
Wowbagger The Infinitely Prolonged Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Westchester County, NY (when not in space) Posts: 14,703	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger Keep in mind the bike will take a dirt beating. If it's an expensive bike with fancy mechanics I'd leave it. If it's a cheap bike then covering it with lights and stuff is fun. It's an old bike. Average mechanics for its day. I certainly don't mind getting it beat up. It's taken a few beatings before.
	__________________ WARNING: Phrases in this post may sound meaner than they were intended to be. SkeptiCamp NYC: http://www.skepticampnyc.org/ An open conference on science and skepticism, where *you* could be a presenter! By the way, my first name is NOT Bowerick!!!!

28th December 2012, 04:53 PM	#17
paiute Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,251	Originally Posted by Wowbagger I just wish the theme for this year wasn't something as wooish-sounding as "Cargo Cults". Why do you associate cargo cults with woo? They are and were real and documented bizarre and interesting aspects of the interaction of cultures.
paiute Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,251	__________________ A Novel and Efficient Synthesis of Cadaverine Organic chemistry, vengeful ghosts, and high explosives. What could possibly go wrong? Now free for download! http://www.scribd.com/doc/36568510/A...-of-Cadaverine

28th December 2012, 08:02 PM	#18
Dicon is not a radish Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 3,110	Don't bother with a shower setup. They require a lot of water to use, and then you end up with a lot of gray water to deal with (and I'll let you in on another secret: gray water evaporation ponds are essentially worthless). Instead, take a spray bottle with some soapy water, a small bowl, and a couple of washcloths. You can get much cleaner than you would with a shower while using far less water. The one time we would splurge on a full shower is at the very end of the event. After the camp is fully broken down and the vehicle is completely packed, use your remaining water to do a full-body rinse. Then take your hermetically sealed bag of exodus clothes (you are planning to pack a hermetically sealed bag of exodus clothes, aren't you?), open it, get dressed, step into your car and get the hell out of there. We camped in all sorts of things in the 12 years we attended, but what we settled into toward the end was simply sleeping in the back of our minivan. It was by far the quietest solution and it was great to not have a tent to deal with.
Dicon is not a radish Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 3,110	Last edited by Dicon; 28th December 2012 at 08:07 PM.

28th December 2012, 08:07 PM	#19
Dicon is not a radish Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 3,110	Originally Posted by paiute Why do you associate cargo cults with woo? They are and were real and documented bizarre and interesting aspects of the interaction of cultures. The use of cargo cults for a Burning Man theme is rather hilarious and I'm not sure everyone attending is quite grasping the irony. Structuring a theme around a community building massive things and performing rituals in hopes of something great happening -- though it never does -- is really funny. I thought it was a prank when I first heard about it.
Dicon is not a radish Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 3,110

28th December 2012, 08:31 PM	#20
Skeptic Ginger formerly skeptigirl Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 44,969	Originally Posted by Dicon Don't bother with a shower setup. They require a lot of water to use, and they you end up with a lot of gray water to deal with (and I'll let you in on another secret: gray water evaporation ponds are essentially worthless). Instead, take a spray bottle with some soapy water, a small bowl, and a couple of washcloths. You can get much cleaner than you would with a shower while using far less water. The one time we would splurge on a full shower is at the very end of the event. After the camp is fully broken down and the vehicle is completely packed, use your remaining water to do a full-body rinse. Then take your hermetically sealed bag of exodus clothes (you are planning to pack a hermetically sealed bag of exodus clothes, aren't you?), open it, get dressed, step into your car and get the hell out of there. We camped in all sorts of things in the 12 years we attended, but what we settled into toward the end was simply sleeping in the back of our minivan. It was by far the quietest solution and it was great to not have a tent to deal with. I know you've been there way more times than me but we had one of those camping solar showers and I, for one, was glad we did. We used plastic sheeting to collect the water (nothing fancy) and it all evaporated just fine. You can shower in the open and if you're shy use swim wear. For our kitchen sink I found a camping sink/table set up similar to this one for $20 bucks at a thrift store. It had a drain hose and we used a collapsible container to collect that waste water and hauled it out. One of the best investments we made was getting a camping toilet. Soooo much better than hiking to the outhouses though we did use those on occasion. They have these little pee bags that are easy to use and easy to haul out on the top of the car. We had a two room tent. One lesson learned, use rebar for the stakes if you go with the tent. And get there in the daylight. Besides the tent we also had a pop up shade that we kept the bikes and the car under. I'm big on shade. Of course this is all moot if you have a camper, except maybe the pop up shade. My situation was different than coming by air. My son and I left Seattle, drove to Yellowstone, enjoyed a week+ there then circled around to Gerlach on the way back. I have a Subaru Outback. So we could pack all that stuff without any problems. We bought the water at the last city before Burning Man, tied gallons and gallons to the top of the car. We had plenty left over. Dang, all this talk makes me want to go again.
	__________________ (*Tired of continuing to hear the "Democrat Party" repeatedly I've decided to adopt the name, ~~Pubbie Party, Repubs~~ "Republics" and Republic Party in response.)

29th December 2012, 02:12 PM	#21
Wowbagger The Infinitely Prolonged Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Westchester County, NY (when not in space) Posts: 14,703	Originally Posted by paiute Why do you associate cargo cults with woo? They are and were real and documented bizarre and interesting aspects of the interaction of cultures. Yes, they were (and still are) real. A real form of mass delusion. Granted, we are dealing with populations that could not have understood any better, perhaps, which is sad. But, it is still a delusion. There seems to be a bit of an emphasis on John Frum, in their descriptions, which leads me to think this is more about that type of futile faith, than about history and culture. I am sure it won't be all bad. I can only image what sorts of funky model airplanes will be on display! Originally Posted by Dicon Don't bother with a shower setup. They require a lot of water to use, and then you end up with a lot of gray water to deal with (and I'll let you in on another secret: gray water evaporation ponds are essentially worthless). Instead, take a spray bottle with some soapy water, a small bowl, and a couple of washcloths. You can get much cleaner than you would with a shower while using far less water. Something to consider. Originally Posted by Dicon Then take your hermetically sealed bag of exodus clothes (you are planning to pack a hermetically sealed bag of exodus clothes, aren't you?) I did think about preparing a set of clothes for leaving (which I typically do when travelling to exotic or unusual locales). Though, I did not consider the idea of keeping it hermetically sealed. Originally Posted by Dicon step into your car and get the hell out of there. If only it were that easy. From what I understand, the Exodus procedure is mighty slow, and done in shifts. Originally Posted by Dicon We camped in all sorts of things in the 12 years we attended, but what we settled into toward the end was simply sleeping in the back of our minivan. It was by far the quietest solution and it was great to not have a tent to deal with. Yeah, that does sound adequate. Originally Posted by Dicon Structuring a theme around a community building massive things and performing rituals in hopes of something great happening -- though it never does -- is really funny. A real knee-slapper! Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger Dang, all this talk makes me want to go again. Thanks for the useful product links! Perhaps the more we talk, the more you WILL be inclined to go again!
	__________________ WARNING: Phrases in this post may sound meaner than they were intended to be. SkeptiCamp NYC: http://www.skepticampnyc.org/ An open conference on science and skepticism, where *you* could be a presenter! By the way, my first name is NOT Bowerick!!!!

4th January 2013, 08:13 AM	#22
jj grumpy old skeptic Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 21,383	Wow, just read that whole thing. We don't have a car big enough to carry the water required (and make no mistake about it, I understand water requirements in the desert). Too old I am, he says. Too old.
jj grumpy old skeptic Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 21,383	__________________ The Power to Quit

4th January 2013, 10:27 AM	#23
Wowbagger The Infinitely Prolonged Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Westchester County, NY (when not in space) Posts: 14,703	"Full Ticket Information" should be getting released, today, for those interested. Whatever that means. Do people bring items with them for bartering? I have a few old, but still kinda cool, toys and things I can bring for trading with folks for various other things I might want. In a 99% cashless society, I suspect such things might be useful.
	__________________ WARNING: Phrases in this post may sound meaner than they were intended to be. SkeptiCamp NYC: http://www.skepticampnyc.org/ An open conference on science and skepticism, where *you* could be a presenter! By the way, my first name is NOT Bowerick!!!!

4th January 2013, 11:23 AM	#24
Skeptic Ginger formerly skeptigirl Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 44,969	Originally Posted by jj Wow, just read that whole thing. We don't have a car big enough to carry the water required (and make no mistake about it, I understand water requirements in the desert). Too old I am, he says. Too old. Pushaw! If I wasn't too old, neither are you. And we didn't use half the water we brought so it's probably an overestimate. If you have the money, however, rent a motorhome in Reno. That's the way to go when you are a more 'mature' fella.
	__________________ (*Tired of continuing to hear the "Democrat Party" repeatedly I've decided to adopt the name, ~~Pubbie Party, Repubs~~ "Republics" and Republic Party in response.)

4th January 2013, 11:26 AM	#25
Skeptic Ginger formerly skeptigirl Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 44,969	Originally Posted by Wowbagger "Full Ticket Information" should be getting released, today, for those interested. Whatever that means. Do people bring items with them for bartering? I have a few old, but still kinda cool, toys and things I can bring for trading with folks for various other things I might want. In a 99% cashless society, I suspect such things might be useful. They sell drinks (iced and coffee type things) for cash in the center house. We never 'acquired' anything else. They sell ice too, but we stuck to foods that didn't need ice to keep.
	__________________ (*Tired of continuing to hear the "Democrat Party" repeatedly I've decided to adopt the name, ~~Pubbie Party, Repubs~~ "Republics" and Republic Party in response.)

4th January 2013, 03:03 PM	#26
Dicon is not a radish Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 3,110	Originally Posted by Wowbagger Do people bring items with them for bartering? I have a few old, but still kinda cool, toys and things I can bring for trading with folks for various other things I might want. In a 99% cashless society, I suspect such things might be useful. Technically, it's a gift economy rather than a barter economy. I wouldn't bother packing and transporting things to trade away... now, if you're OK with just giving them away and they are things that someone might actually want/need, that's a different story. Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger And we didn't use half the water we brought so it's probably an overestimate. This is very common as most people take way, way too much water their first couple trips. I tell people to err on the side of taking too little; if you do happen to run out there are plenty of others around you who have some to spare. I think we were typically using less than a gallon a day for the two of us. We did, however, also have other mostly-water-based drinks like Gatorade and Diet Coke.
Dicon is not a radish Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 3,110

4th January 2013, 03:10 PM	#27
Dicon is not a radish Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 3,110	A conversation I recently had reminds me of another piece of important advice: Nothing happens when it is supposed to happen, if it happens at all. You'll hear any references to "playa time" and you'll soon learn that it's a very real thing. Someone says they'll meet you in Center Camp at noon? They might wander in around 2:30 the next day. When you arrive, the Greeters give you a booklet called the What Where When guide. It is filled with hundreds of event listings, many of which you are bound to find interesting. The only problem is that these listings were submitted by well-intentioned people many months in advance. Since that time, many of them have had to change their plans, some had to cancel their trip, some passed out right after they arrived and will be sleeping through the whole week, some just don't care. Consider the guide to be a mere suggestion of things that might happen at some time at some place... but probably won't. On the playa, it's all about Plan B. Or C.
Dicon is not a radish Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 3,110

4th January 2013, 07:01 PM	#28
Skeptic Ginger formerly skeptigirl Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 44,969	Originally Posted by Dicon Technically, it's a gift economy rather than a barter economy. I wouldn't bother packing and transporting things to trade away... now, if you're OK with just giving them away and they are things that someone might actually want/need, that's a different story.... We took a box of dust masks and handed them out when it got windy.
	__________________ (*Tired of continuing to hear the "Democrat Party" repeatedly I've decided to adopt the name, ~~Pubbie Party, Repubs~~ "Republics" and Republic Party in response.)

4th January 2013, 07:23 PM	#29
Wowbagger The Infinitely Prolonged Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Westchester County, NY (when not in space) Posts: 14,703	Originally Posted by Dicon Technically, it's a gift economy rather than a barter economy. Perhaps a small box of things to give away might suffice. I'll bring some snacks to gift away, also. Unfortunately, Tim-Tams are likely to melt out there. So, I'll pick up something hardier. Originally Posted by Dicon When you arrive, the Greeters give you a booklet called the What Where When guide. It is filled with hundreds of event listings, many of which you are bound to find interesting. The only problem is that these listings were submitted by well-intentioned people many months in advance. Since that time, many of them have had to change their plans, some had to cancel their trip, some passed out right after they arrived and will be sleeping through the whole week, some just don't care. Consider the guide to be a mere suggestion of things that might happen at some time at some place... but probably won't. They should just have an interactive version, already! Perhaps something low tech, like a wall with with time slots and locations. People can add a strip of tape with words scribbled on it to descibe the event. Kinda like what a lot of BarCamps do.
	__________________ WARNING: Phrases in this post may sound meaner than they were intended to be. SkeptiCamp NYC: http://www.skepticampnyc.org/ An open conference on science and skepticism, where *you* could be a presenter! By the way, my first name is NOT Bowerick!!!!

6th January 2013, 06:20 AM	#30
Wowbagger The Infinitely Prolonged Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Westchester County, NY (when not in space) Posts: 14,703	February 6th is the day to sign up for the regular ticket sale. Just thought I'd mention that.
	__________________ WARNING: Phrases in this post may sound meaner than they were intended to be. SkeptiCamp NYC: http://www.skepticampnyc.org/ An open conference on science and skepticism, where *you* could be a presenter! By the way, my first name is NOT Bowerick!!!!

6th January 2013, 07:00 AM	#31
paiute Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,251	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger We took a box of dust masks and handed them out when it got windy. Try this new product: http://www.vogmask.com/
paiute Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,251	__________________ A Novel and Efficient Synthesis of Cadaverine Organic chemistry, vengeful ghosts, and high explosives. What could possibly go wrong? Now free for download! http://www.scribd.com/doc/36568510/A...-of-Cadaverine

31st January 2013, 06:02 PM	#32
Wowbagger The Infinitely Prolonged Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Westchester County, NY (when not in space) Posts: 14,703	I wonder if it pays to organize a SkeptiCamp type of thing at Burning Man. Maybe call it: SkeptiCamp Black Rock or SkeptiCamp Playa, or something. Would there be enough interest, does anyone think? There might be a BarCamp at Burning Man, as there were in some previous years.
	__________________ WARNING: Phrases in this post may sound meaner than they were intended to be. SkeptiCamp NYC: http://www.skepticampnyc.org/ An open conference on science and skepticism, where *you* could be a presenter! By the way, my first name is NOT Bowerick!!!!

31st January 2013, 07:17 PM	#33
The Central Scrutinizer Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 48,577	I'm not interested.
	__________________ If I see somebody with a gun on a plane? I'll kill him. Lupus is Lupus tor central scrutineezer

31st January 2013, 08:20 PM	#34
littleelvira Guest Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 39	Originally Posted by Wowbagger I had secured my Burning Man 2013 ticket during the Early Bird Holiday Sale, a few days ago. (Yes, it is more expensive that way. But, I don't care.) And even though it won't take place until August, I am commencing with preliminary survival plans, since this will be my first one. I have read through the 2012 edition of their official Survival Guide. (The 2013 one is not available, yet.) So, I know all the basics. One previous burner dude advised me to bring EVERYTHING listed on there, even if they claim it is "optional": Optional things have a habit of becoming necessities out there, for someone. That sounds good to me. So, the purpose of this thread is twofold: 1. Any additional advice or help or tips or whatever, from any of you previous burners out there, would be most welcomed. 2. Is there anyone ELSE on this forum planning to attend in 2013? I am looking for travel group options. Or, at the very least, we can meet up once we have arrived there. I just wish the theme for this year wasn't something as wooish-sounding as "Cargo Cults". What is the point to that thing? A super creative temporary city?
littleelvira Guest Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 39

31st January 2013, 09:11 PM	#35
Wowbagger The Infinitely Prolonged Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Westchester County, NY (when not in space) Posts: 14,703	Originally Posted by littleelvira What is the point to that thing? A super creative temporary city? Yeeee-Haw!
	__________________ WARNING: Phrases in this post may sound meaner than they were intended to be. SkeptiCamp NYC: http://www.skepticampnyc.org/ An open conference on science and skepticism, where *you* could be a presenter! By the way, my first name is NOT Bowerick!!!!