ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » Welcome to ISF » Other Skeptical Organizations » JREF » Latest Commentary Issues
 

Notices


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags homeopathy

Reply
Old 21st June 2012, 12:35 PM   #41
Beerina
Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions
 
Beerina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 24,554
Originally Posted by Lamuella View Post
which homeopaths rebrand conventional medicine? This isn't one I've heard of before.
I have. Way back when when Randi had his old weekly newsletter, he planned such a "suicide" demo, and I suggested he be careful lest some homeopeth be less than reputable and include real narcotics.

Of course nowadays Benadryl is the narcotic of choice and if you take too much it actually buzzes you back up.
__________________
"Great innovations should not be forced [by way of] slender majorities." - Thomas Jefferson

The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales now! More, cheaper, better games, right? Right?
Beerina is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st June 2012, 12:42 PM   #42
bouch
Student
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 49
Originally Posted by JihadJane View Post
This must rank as one of the most bizarre and pointless demonstrations ever conceived, because no homeopath would expect a whole box of pills to have any different an effect than taking just one pill.
Really? Can you explain the logic behind this?

Originally Posted by JihadJane View Post
It doesn't even demonstrate that. It's just one dose. You could take one dose of antibiotics rather than a full course but the lack of effects wouldn't demonstrate the inefficacy of antibiotics.
But now you've switched the medication, and the expectations. No doctor would claim that one dose of antibiotics will cure the disease.

However, If I took ONE sleeping pill, I would expect it to make me drowsy, much like I would expect ONE Tylenol to relieve the pain of a headache.
__________________
Don't take life too seriously, you'll never get out of it alive!
bouch is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th July 2012, 06:51 AM   #43
Soapy Sam
NLH
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 28,188
When I took part in a similar demo, a couple of years ago, we followed it up with handouts explaining what actually is in homoeopathic pills.Numerous people were shocked to realise they were paying several hundred times the supermarket price for sugar. The fact there is no active ingredient in the "pillules" is what the demo illustrates. What's left is cheap filler, at a ludicrous price. Jane, this is fraud, targetting people who are often too afraid, or too poor to seek real medical advice. I'd expect you to be in favour of debunking it.
Soapy Sam is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2012, 11:33 AM   #44
edd
Master Poster
 
edd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,119
I'm in no way in favour of homeopathy but people are paying for the sugar to have gone through a particular ritual, and it isn't surprising that people pay otherwise absurd prices for it. I'm not sure I'd call it fraud to sell 'holy water' at a high price for example, and certainly not for someone to pay extra for a hypothetical product that was identical to some other product but was made in an ethically preferable way for example.
Homeopaths are misleading intentionally or not about the efficacy of their product but they're typically honest about its means of production, are they not?
And if people choose to pay more for that production method they should be free to do so, even if I personally consider them nuts for it.
Edit to clarify further: I think the key problem is lack of efficacy not lack of active ingredient.
__________________
When I look up at the night sky and think about the billions of stars out there, I think to myself: I'm amazing. - Peter Serafinowicz

Last edited by edd; 16th November 2012 at 11:35 AM.
edd is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2012, 11:50 AM   #45
Beerina
Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions
 
Beerina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 24,554
As with anything else, the final question is, "Does it work?"

Repeated, and I mean repeated, testing shows it doesn't. At what point does it turn into active, knowing fraud?

At what point does it turn into willful ignorance and thus malpractice?
__________________
"Great innovations should not be forced [by way of] slender majorities." - Thomas Jefferson

The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales now! More, cheaper, better games, right? Right?

Last edited by Beerina; 16th November 2012 at 11:51 AM.
Beerina is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2012, 01:01 PM   #46
DallasDad
Muse
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 749
I don't get the people who think that Randi's stunt just proves that he doesn't understand homeopathy. They seem to be saying that because homeopathy works on dilutions, that taking a whole bottle of sleeping pills would have the effect of a stimulant. Where this breaks down, of course, is that by the same logic, taking none at all is the same as a deadly overdose.
DallasDad is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th January 2013, 02:39 PM   #47
Edx
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,429
Originally Posted by Pup View Post
A more subtle stunt, which fewer people would get but which would more accurate mock homoepathic theory, would be to properly dilute a dose far beyond the recommended number of times, and then take that without effect.
Someone did that on YT with bleach!

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
Edx is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th January 2013, 01:54 AM   #48
Mojo
Mostly harmless
 
Mojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 25,504
Originally Posted by Edx View Post
Someone did that on YT with bleach!

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE

See also: http://crispian-jago.blogspot.co.uk/...nk-my-own.html
__________________
"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield

"The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky
Mojo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th January 2013, 07:51 AM   #49
Edx
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,429
lol nice, but urine probably isnt as toxic as bleach (indeed some crazy people drink urine regularly because they're crazy) so I like that better for real shock factor
Edx is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » Welcome to ISF » Other Skeptical Organizations » JREF » Latest Commentary Issues

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:39 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
2014, TribeTech AB. All Rights Reserved.
This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.