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#7561 |
imperfecto del subjuntivo
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: stranded at Buenos Aires, a city that, like NYC or Paris, has so little to offer...
Posts: 8,411
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No possible offence as that's rigorously true; I never said that my English level were better than intermediate. What I can't see is why some find so difficult to understand half-tongue in the presence of a half-tongue public. There are just the people who want to communicate and those who give a darn, and the matter of language only has been used here as part of argumentations. In other fora, with even more primitive and chauvinist public, I have had worst discussions and never the problem of language has emerged as part of the argumentation.
Now I reckon that most participants here barely read the messages; they just scanned them like a person in a train station does, barely listening the messages given through the loudspeakers just to learn if there was some change of plans. In that poor context is obvious that every word have to be placed precisely or the chap would be forced to read carefully the posts indeed to understand it. Shame on who does this and complain. |
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Horrible dipsomaniacs and other addicts, be gone and get treated, or covfefe your soul!These fora are full of scientists and specialists. Most of them turn back to pumpkins the second they log out. I got tired of the actual schizophrenics that are taking hold part of the forum and decided to do something about it. |
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#7562 |
imperfecto del subjuntivo
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: stranded at Buenos Aires, a city that, like NYC or Paris, has so little to offer...
Posts: 8,411
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Stop playing the fool and using smoke screens. You haven't answered what I asked you on this very subject so I presume confirmed you mixed two scenarios in one.
So, bickering with you is essential to get you reading else's posts. At last you read my posts and it's not confusing at all. As you quoted, it always was over 2013 conditions. It never could have been otherwise, but your confusion exceeds scenarios and extends to baselines. I'll take a look to those links tomorrow morning. You are saying a lot of thing at the same time, some of them contradictory. I'll help you out of your confusion, but be patient. |
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Horrible dipsomaniacs and other addicts, be gone and get treated, or covfefe your soul!These fora are full of scientists and specialists. Most of them turn back to pumpkins the second they log out. I got tired of the actual schizophrenics that are taking hold part of the forum and decided to do something about it. |
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#7563 |
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 23,064
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#7564 |
imperfecto del subjuntivo
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: stranded at Buenos Aires, a city that, like NYC or Paris, has so little to offer...
Posts: 8,411
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The net absorption of CO2 by the oceans depends on imbalances. How much "CO2" can contain ocean water depends on temperature and pressure. The actual average content of inorganic carbon in the oceans is 0.032 g/dm3. Fresh water at normal pressure can hold 0.17g of CO2/dm3 (that's 0.05g of carbon) at 20°C, so basically you would need to heat up the oceans an average of 14°C and throw into them some 50,000 GT of CO2 to saturate them. And I'm still keeping an ace in the sleeve: under high pressure sea water can hold even more carbon -that doesn't mean it actually does, and that's the difference between real risks and hysterical fantasies-.
So, it'd look like there's no problem at all. But the problem is that waters close to the surface can be warm enough to become "reluctant" to absorb more CO2 and that hinders the process that links the atmosphere with the oceans, so it's expected that the ocean system is going to absorb in the future a declining percentage of human emissions and some areas in the ocean are or may become "emitters". But you won't find any risk in the next several decades. Coupled atmosphere-ocean models include modules dealing with this. You can download some of them or run them on-line. I've had a headache making gmake for Windows work in Windows 7 64bits together with my PERL installation -Active Perl- to compile and run on low resolution GISS GCM ModelE and get by myself the same graphics I was shown in one of the research centers I visit, for instance, that of what happens in a stop cold emissions scenario. |
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Horrible dipsomaniacs and other addicts, be gone and get treated, or covfefe your soul!These fora are full of scientists and specialists. Most of them turn back to pumpkins the second they log out. I got tired of the actual schizophrenics that are taking hold part of the forum and decided to do something about it. |
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#7565 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Planet earth on slow boil
Posts: 7,848
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Alec - you make mistakes due to language and haste and you are too arrogant to admit it.
And piss off with the patronizing - if I want help from you I'll ask. I tend to ask Gavin et al instead. All I'm trying to do is clarify what you won't. See the preceding post to this. The confusion you are dishing up as over reaching knowledge isn't. Providing temperatures as working out of a 2013 baseline is simply ludicrous.
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When I am talking about 4C increase it's from the baseline not from now, it's never been from now for my posts so you can do your own math as to what it means in your non-standard terminology.
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Mainstream climate science sources • http://www.skepticalscience.com/empi...al-warming.htm • http://ossfoundation.us/projects/env...g/human-caused • http://arstechnica.com/science/2013/...e-responsible/ ![]() ![]() |
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#7566 |
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 23,064
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that sounds very simplified. and this part of the science is not at all as clear as some might think. as far as i know there still is a huge lack of data especialy from coastal areas. things like the "continental shelf pump" etc and alot of uncertainties. and some simple model runs will not get you a good answer yet.
i would argue this question cannot be answered yet. |
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#7567 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 12,289
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In the statement you quote me as referring to "natural sources," I am not talking just about the ocean sink. In fact, the surface sinks (major watershed forests, prarielands, and permafrost) are more immediate threats and concern. The northern permafrosts contain at least a doubling of current atmospheric ratios in carbon in the top 3 meters of surface. Much of that will likely be warmed and released within the next century.
"Suddenly," is inaccurate in most common senses of usage. From a geological standpoint, however, anything that happens over a timeframe of less than a millenia is usually considered extraordinarily fast. More to your question, many regions of the planet's oceans are already net emitters of CO2, most especially the surface waters in regions of the equitorial band. This is in tune with statements made by Pixel42. There are many other factors in this general area of consideration, such as upwellings and stratification issues for instance. In some of areas the deeper colder waters are actually more heavily saturated with CO2 than the warmer surface waters, in areas where upwellings occur this more heavily saturated cold water will not absorb more CO2 from the atmosphere and as it warms on the surface it cannot hold onto all the CO2 that it already has and thus emits some of its load. What is occurring in other areas of the higher latitude oceans is that we are getting warmer fresher waters overlaying much of the cooler saltier waters that normally drag the CO2 from the surface to the ocean depths in the normal course of the conveyor currents. This stratification reduces the absorption of atmospheric CO2 and causes a stagnation of circulation. I don't see anything that looks like major currents will shutdown but even a slowing of the thermohaline circulations will cause a lot of problems with one of the major heat flow engines of our environment as well as the impact upon CO2 absorption. The entirety of the oceans do not need to become a saturated CO2 emission source for net oceanic emissions to change dramatically. Until the industrial revolution, it is generally accepted that the oceans were a net source of atmospheric CO2 rather than being a sink, it is only after we started pumping more carbon into the atmosphere that the oceans started trying to play catch-up striving for equilibrium. References: "Policy Implications of Warming Permafrost" - http://www.unep.org/pdf/permafrost.pdf "Amount and timing of permafrost carbon release in response to climate warming" - http://www.researchgate.net/publicat...limate_warming "Soils emitting more carbon dioxide: Trend could exacerbate global warming." - http://www.nature.com/news/2010/1003....2010.147.html (following is a term-paper not a journal paper, but is well stocked with supporting references - mainly included for Fig. 1, but the information looks good with a quick look-through) "The Coastal Ocean:A Source or a Sink of Atmospheric CO2?" http://www.up.ethz.ch/education/term...paper_hs07.pdf "Wind-Driven Upwelling in the Southern Ocean and the Deglacial Rise in Atmospheric CO2" - https://edit.ethz.ch/umweltphysik/ed...son_sci_09.pdf "Impact of the Ocean’s Overturning Circulation on Atmospheric CO2" http://mgg.coas.oregonstate.edu/~and...ttner07agu.pdf This is just a quickly gathered sampling of references retrieved with a quick search, I don't have access to my databases right now but will try to put together a better set of references for you when I return home next weekend, if you'd like. |
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Trakar "By doubting we come to inquiry, and through inquiry we perceive truth." — Peter Abelard "My civilization can do anything!" - David Brin (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i275AvgVvow) |
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#7568 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,586
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IPCC uses standard terms for different confidence levels:
http://www.ipcc.ch/pdf/supporting-ma...dance-note.pdf ![]() ![]() Has anyone compiled the most important bits of AGW info together with these IPCC confidence levels to one place? |
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Richard Dawkins: "We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further." Pixie of key: "HOW IS YOU NOT UNDERSTANDING WHAT I AM GIVING LECTURES ON A PROBLEM." |
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#7569 | |||
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,586
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What is the current understanding of the increase in extreme weather events? And what is the confidence / agreement level?
I'm reading the SREX at the moment: https://www.ipcc.ch/pdf/special-repo...ull_Report.pdf ...but I'd appreciate a quick summary and relevant quotes / sources to save time! From the popular media I've received a clear picture that droughts, heat waves, floods, tornados, etc. are all becoming more intense and more numerous because of AGW. I'd like to present IPCC confidence levels with these claims. EDIT: Tim Palmer from Oxford on the increase of extreme weather events (1 min 33 sec): Are extreme weather events going to increase?
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Richard Dawkins: "We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further." Pixie of key: "HOW IS YOU NOT UNDERSTANDING WHAT I AM GIVING LECTURES ON A PROBLEM." |
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#7570 | ||||||
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,586
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Here's a short video overview of the SREX report by IPCCGeneva YouTube channel:
Overview of the IPCC Report on Extreme Events (SREX)
Here's a bit more detailed SREX overview (6 min 16 sec): SREX Presentation: Chris Field at COP18
EDIT: They have a SREX playlist with 7 different video clips: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL11970AA1CB21A33C |
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Richard Dawkins: "We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further." Pixie of key: "HOW IS YOU NOT UNDERSTANDING WHAT I AM GIVING LECTURES ON A PROBLEM." |
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#7571 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Planet earth on slow boil
Posts: 7,848
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Mainstream climate science sources • http://www.skepticalscience.com/empi...al-warming.htm • http://ossfoundation.us/projects/env...g/human-caused • http://arstechnica.com/science/2013/...e-responsible/ ![]() ![]() |
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#7572 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,586
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Richard Dawkins: "We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further." Pixie of key: "HOW IS YOU NOT UNDERSTANDING WHAT I AM GIVING LECTURES ON A PROBLEM." |
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#7573 |
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open.
Posts: 38,609
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Only two years after record flooding in Queensland, more record flooding, plus a record number of tornadoes.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-01-2...6?WT.svl=news0 Both are extreme events, once in a hundred years or decades. Looking like it's more than just a coincidence, and we aren't over this years cyclone season yet. The irony is that the 2011 floods caused major problems for the growing coal mining industry. |
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Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity. Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes |
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#7574 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 12,289
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Erring on the side of least drama?
"Climate change prediction: Erring on the side of least drama?"
Keynyn Brysse a,*, Naomi Oreskes b, Jessica O’Reilly c, Michael Oppenheimer d http://www.wageningenur.nl/upload/f2...5fc_erring.pdf
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Trakar "By doubting we come to inquiry, and through inquiry we perceive truth." — Peter Abelard "My civilization can do anything!" - David Brin (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i275AvgVvow) |
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#7575 |
Guest
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 14,255
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A confusion:
When global warming is increasing, how it is too cold this year? |
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#7576 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,466
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“Ego is subversive and devolutionary, truly destructive and terrible; ego is the generator of privilege, established institutions, and comfortable habit. Ego is the fire that burns within the pit of hell, devouring and consuming everything that enters and leaving utterly nothing behind. Ego is horrible, cruel, and restraining, the darkness of the world, and the doom and bane of man.” – my reaction to that famous Bertrand Russell quote. |
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#7577 |
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open.
Posts: 38,609
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Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity. Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes |
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#7578 |
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open.
Posts: 38,609
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An interesting article on the value of climate research in Australia.
http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/4484...WT.svl=theDrum
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Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity. Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes |
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#7579 |
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open.
Posts: 38,609
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dupe
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Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity. Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes |
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#7580 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 22,755
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__________________
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool. William Shakespeare |
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#7581 |
imperfecto del subjuntivo
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: stranded at Buenos Aires, a city that, like NYC or Paris, has so little to offer...
Posts: 8,411
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Knock it off with such ludicrous changes of subject and your general disorderly behaviour. You asked me and you were replied: both 1 to 1.2° in 250 years and peak of 0.2°C in some 30 years for two different scenarios were provided by me departing on today levels. I never needed to add "additional" because it's quite obvious: it comes naturally from the simple notion of "warming still in the pipes".
The rest of yours is just a smoke screen: as you don't like what I say you already tried a lot of paths: acting as I said a different thing; that you don't understand my use of language -yet you do as if you understood and had answers for it-; that my inferences should have departed for the off-topics you provide, and a lot of garbage that is called in my language "to 'strew' the field with holes" that is, to hinder the opposite team with "unsportmanly" actions because your own team is a failure. From my incidental scanning of the filler texts you posted recently I deduct you have little idea about how climate models work and how they can be initiated each day departing from a current file containing a mix of values come from a running instance of the model together and tweaked with actual instrumental data. So, what's your problem with "warming still on the pipe" that you need to make bad inferences based on outdated incomplete material while you're asking others 'sworn statements' and hard proof? I have now to go back and reply a few messages posted before yours. |
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Horrible dipsomaniacs and other addicts, be gone and get treated, or covfefe your soul!These fora are full of scientists and specialists. Most of them turn back to pumpkins the second they log out. I got tired of the actual schizophrenics that are taking hold part of the forum and decided to do something about it. |
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#7582 |
imperfecto del subjuntivo
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: stranded at Buenos Aires, a city that, like NYC or Paris, has so little to offer...
Posts: 8,411
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Indeed both links manage values in line with those I used (one, some +0.8°C in +300 years under "hypothetical stabilization", the other one constant or slow drop for the other scenario) , so look elsewhere if you want to contradict me. In most models -which not include a coupled ocean circulation model- the heat storage in deep ocean is just a tiny set of parameters that you can change in different runs. These models were pretty poor -yet, the best we had until a few years ago, and strong enough to allow us to know where science was standing-, and by modifying those parameters you had much different inertias.
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Horrible dipsomaniacs and other addicts, be gone and get treated, or covfefe your soul!These fora are full of scientists and specialists. Most of them turn back to pumpkins the second they log out. I got tired of the actual schizophrenics that are taking hold part of the forum and decided to do something about it. |
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#7583 |
imperfecto del subjuntivo
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: stranded at Buenos Aires, a city that, like NYC or Paris, has so little to offer...
Posts: 8,411
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That is not simplified. That is just an analysis, a common sense one, to see if there's something behind or not. It's called reality check. Do you think that I 'believe' that analysis or that this is the extent of my knowledge on that subject?
The question is, what analysis come from common sense and involving principles of natural sciences and figures do you and others do to check the soundness of all arguments? To my astonishment I am discovering these last few weeks that nobody or almost nobody does, so I have to conclude that the fact that some are denialist and others are warmer-like is purely coincidental/accidental. So, summarizing: you take a snippet -my analysis- and reply that it's all too much complex and who knows. It boils down to "something is possible" (oceans vomiting 'a sea' of CO2) "just because it's very complex and I don't know". That's is just a trick to keep the wished possibility even in lack of evidence, because that is what is happening in this thread. Denialist shouldn't feel alone! |
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Horrible dipsomaniacs and other addicts, be gone and get treated, or covfefe your soul!These fora are full of scientists and specialists. Most of them turn back to pumpkins the second they log out. I got tired of the actual schizophrenics that are taking hold part of the forum and decided to do something about it. |
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#7584 |
imperfecto del subjuntivo
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: stranded at Buenos Aires, a city that, like NYC or Paris, has so little to offer...
Posts: 8,411
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I am burning now with 38°C (+100 ° Usian) and we are breaking records week after week; around Xmas we experienced the record dew point high: 27.9°C: opening the door and going out was more knocking than an uppercut. It was just like we were breathing soup.
Where's the "so much" cold? Will you invite me there? |
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Horrible dipsomaniacs and other addicts, be gone and get treated, or covfefe your soul!These fora are full of scientists and specialists. Most of them turn back to pumpkins the second they log out. I got tired of the actual schizophrenics that are taking hold part of the forum and decided to do something about it. |
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#7585 |
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 23,064
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i don't believe there is any real chance atm that Oceans overall will switch from sink to source. but your oversimplified approach did not really approach this question properly. its far more complicated, and this is actually a topic i did read about in scientific literature. but from the question, are the oceans currently a net sink or not. and for example we do not have good data from coastal areas, and parts of coastal areas are already a net CO2 source. also the different oceans are acting differently in this regard. etc etc. we simply do not know much about that particular question. and oversimplification will not deliver a proper and usefull answer at all. and it doesn't matter in which direction.
2 of the papers i did read about this have been linked to by someone else just resently here. but i did read them a few months ago. |
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#7586 |
Guest
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 14,255
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#7587 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 22,755
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__________________
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool. William Shakespeare |
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#7588 |
Schrödinger's cat
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Malmesbury, UK
Posts: 10,224
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Here's the global temperature report for December:
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/2012/12 If you scroll down to the section headed Temperatures you'll see a map of global temperatures showing that it was colder than usual in central Asia, and warmer than usual almost everywhere else. The report for January will be put up in mid February. I predict that some areas will again be showing lower than usual temperatures, but many more will be showing higher. |
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"If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett |
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#7589 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 22,755
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I thought it was kind of cold in Japan too and that map confirms my anecdotal feeling about this winter. The cold air mass in central Asia seems to be affecting us even here in Japan. Perhaps it is also affecting India in January although that map for December doesn't indicate it yet.
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A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool. William Shakespeare |
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#7590 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,586
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According to Real Climate: ![]()
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If I understand correctly, this suggests that in a zero emission scenario we would get no warming / slight cooling immediately. My other source confirmed this to be the case (and gave different scenarios), but with a caveat that because of the overall cooling effect of some small particles (in the zero GHG emission scenario) we would get a fast warming effect of something like 0.5°c but then the climate would start to cool off. Other scenarios were: a) Zero CO2 emissions = pretty much no change in temperature for hundreds of years. b) Zero CO2 and zero methane, etc. emissions = very slight cooling in the first couple of decades, because of methane's fast response. |
__________________
Richard Dawkins: "We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further." Pixie of key: "HOW IS YOU NOT UNDERSTANDING WHAT I AM GIVING LECTURES ON A PROBLEM." |
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#7591 |
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 23,064
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well if we go to 0 tomorow, we would still have a long time of higher temperatures compared to pre industrial levels, until we actually reach the pre industrial CO2 levels. only then we would not have any increased temperatures anymore (ignoring the long lag oceans would have to get back to normal)
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#7592 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,586
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And this of course assumes that we have not passed any major "tipping points" yet.
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Richard Dawkins: "We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further." Pixie of key: "HOW IS YOU NOT UNDERSTANDING WHAT I AM GIVING LECTURES ON A PROBLEM." |
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#7593 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 12,289
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"tipping points" come in many flavors:
"Climate Change and Economic Growth: Evidence from the Last Half Century" Melissa Dell, Benjamin F. Jones, Benjamin A. Olken NBER Working Paper No. 14132 Issued in June 2008 NBER Program(s): EEE EFG http://www.nber.org/papers/w14132.pdf
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When global markets collapse and the human population contracts and the environment becomes increasingly hostile, things get ugly quick. You really don't have to ratchet things up much higher than they've been over the last few decades to plausibly reach these points. We don't have to get to the point where the southwest deserts expand throughout much of the central plains states, and it's cheaper to grow food in factories than it is in the ever shrinking arable, open-air, land before the self-evident effects (and consequences) of a warming climate is going to put pressure on all other geopolitical considerations. There are still a lot of nasty weapons and technologies disseminated throughout the masses of our populations. At the least, we may be in a position to understand the drivers, even if we are without the strength of mind and character of social cohesion to meet these challenges,...simply one of many Fermi paradox considerations. |
__________________
Trakar "By doubting we come to inquiry, and through inquiry we perceive truth." — Peter Abelard "My civilization can do anything!" - David Brin (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i275AvgVvow) |
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#7594 |
imperfecto del subjuntivo
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: stranded at Buenos Aires, a city that, like NYC or Paris, has so little to offer...
Posts: 8,411
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__________________
Horrible dipsomaniacs and other addicts, be gone and get treated, or covfefe your soul!These fora are full of scientists and specialists. Most of them turn back to pumpkins the second they log out. I got tired of the actual schizophrenics that are taking hold part of the forum and decided to do something about it. |
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#7595 |
imperfecto del subjuntivo
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: stranded at Buenos Aires, a city that, like NYC or Paris, has so little to offer...
Posts: 8,411
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You are still saying the same.
"The subject is complex" is not an argument. That's why you should start with common sense and revise (or learn) the physical processes involved; then you can perceive if there's something really behind: that's exactly what I did here. When I read such kind of articles and papers, I have to be critical from the very beginning. I've probably read a dozen papers about this specific subject in the last few months. Can you provide the links to those papers so I can return a critical analysis of them? The range of problems with those papers is extremely wide. |
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Horrible dipsomaniacs and other addicts, be gone and get treated, or covfefe your soul!These fora are full of scientists and specialists. Most of them turn back to pumpkins the second they log out. I got tired of the actual schizophrenics that are taking hold part of the forum and decided to do something about it. |
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#7596 |
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 23,064
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#7597 |
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 23,064
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#7598 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Planet earth on slow boil
Posts: 7,848
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No - that's a ridiculous statement to make. There are any number of ways of stopping agw - none too pleasant and perhaps whoever is making it should attempt to back it up.
It may well have halted for the moment if the Asian brown cloud is overwhelming the warming. |
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Mainstream climate science sources • http://www.skepticalscience.com/empi...al-warming.htm • http://ossfoundation.us/projects/env...g/human-caused • http://arstechnica.com/science/2013/...e-responsible/ ![]() ![]() |
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#7599 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 12,289
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You make some good points.
There may be ways to "stop" climate change, but the issue is more whether or not we have reached the point that even if we took humanity and its future additional contributions completely out of the picture, have we already engaged enough natural feedbacks that the warming would continue to accelerate (albeit at a reduced rate)? As to the Asian emissions, there is a difference between a masking of some symptoms and a complete halting or removal of the underlying processes. |
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Trakar "By doubting we come to inquiry, and through inquiry we perceive truth." — Peter Abelard "My civilization can do anything!" - David Brin (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i275AvgVvow) |
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#7600 |
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 23,064
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