ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events
 

Notices


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 3rd February 2013, 12:23 PM   #41
NoahFence
Psycho Kitty
 
NoahFence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Patriot Nation
Posts: 12,220
Originally Posted by triforcharity View Post
{citation needed}
seycyrus' body of work should do.
__________________
Our truest life is when we are in our dreams awake.

-Henry David Thoreau
NoahFence is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd February 2013, 12:26 PM   #42
Unabogie
Philosopher
 
Unabogie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 9,352
Originally Posted by triforcharity View Post
Strawman, since nobody claims the hilited.

The element of surprise was on the bad guys side. The EOS is always on the attacker's side.

Sad that the death of an American serviceman, highly decorated, and highly respected, is almost celebrated by people. Very sad.
No one is celebrating, but your response is the classic No True Gun Pro excuse. Name a scenario more in favor of the good guys than one in which their guns are already in their hands and loaded?
Unabogie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd February 2013, 01:13 PM   #43
Checkmite
Skepticifimisticalationist
 
Checkmite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 18,282
Originally Posted by Unabogie View Post
No one is celebrating
Pointing out how a particular shooting makes a case against the efficacy of the NRA's goodguy/badguy solution on gun violence, is tantamount to cruelly and heartlessly celebrating the death of the victim. You obviously weren't at The Meeting or you would know this.
__________________
"¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD?
¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?"
--- Carlos S., 2002
Checkmite is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd February 2013, 01:16 PM   #44
Checkmite
Skepticifimisticalationist
 
Checkmite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 18,282
To be fair though, it's certain that the fact there were many carrying gun owners at the gun range probably kept the shooter from claiming even more victims.

Either that, or the shooter leaving the gun range. One of these two definitely helped prevent more deaths there.
__________________
"¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD?
¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?"
--- Carlos S., 2002
Checkmite is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd February 2013, 01:40 PM   #45
joesixpack
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,534
Originally Posted by triforcharity View Post

Sad that the death of an American serviceman, highly decorated, and highly respected, is almost celebrated by people. Very sad.

Funny. I'm not "almost" celebrating his death either. His death is an absolute tragedy. There is absolutely NOTHING good about this story, on any level.

But I'll take issue with your "highly respected" characterization. He was a good shot and operated well in a morally ambiguous milieu. The accident of his birth put him on the same side to which you hold allegiance. But nothing about his actions make him stand out as a beacon of humanity.
__________________
Generally sober 'til noon.
joesixpack is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd February 2013, 01:43 PM   #46
thaiboxerken
Penultimate Amazing
 
thaiboxerken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 23,569
I don't understand. How does a guy with a gun get shot? I thought guns protected people from other guns.
__________________
All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine
thaiboxerken is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd February 2013, 01:52 PM   #47
NoahFence
Psycho Kitty
 
NoahFence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Patriot Nation
Posts: 12,220
Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
I don't understand. How does a guy with a gun get shot? I thought guns protected people from other guns.
MORE guns! Clearly there weren't enough guns there.
__________________
Our truest life is when we are in our dreams awake.

-Henry David Thoreau
NoahFence is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd February 2013, 02:18 PM   #48
BStrong
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 6,105
Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
It seems like a very bad idea to me to take someone suffering from mental illness to a gun range to rehab them... seriously wtf?
One of the new treatment methods for PTSD is to use video footage recreation of specific incidents involving the patient, allowing them to experience the same feelings in a safe environment with a professional there for support.

I've been told it works by guys I know through Swords to Plowshares that have gone through the treatment.

I often ride my motorcycle when I'm in anxiety, going into a focused mindset like that of combat without risk to anyone but myself allows me to burn it out of my mind.

Professional level shooting like what Kyle would be involved with takes the same level of focus, and I understand why someone at his skill level could find relief in focusing solely on the mechanics of shooting.

If the reports are to be believed, Kyle made a lapse in judgement invovling the shooter in the range day program.
BStrong is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd February 2013, 02:24 PM   #49
BStrong
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 6,105
I read through all the responses here now.

I *********** wish I hadn't.
BStrong is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd February 2013, 02:25 PM   #50
BenBurch
Gatekeeper of The Left
 
BenBurch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one.
Posts: 35,268
Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer View Post
I thought stuff like this was never supposed to happen to you if you were armed.
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
__________________
For what doth it profit a man, to fix one bug, but crash the system?
BenBurch is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd February 2013, 02:43 PM   #51
NWO Sentryman
Proud NWO Gatekeeper
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,401
Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
I read through all the responses here now.

I *********** wish I hadn't.
Welcome to politics, leave your critical thinking at the door.
__________________
If I now say "dominoes", you won't think "pizza". Will you? - FireGarden on the Middle East
NWO Sentryman is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd February 2013, 03:15 PM   #52
Giz
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,774
a lot of dancing on graves going on
Giz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd February 2013, 03:17 PM   #53
R.Mackey
Philosopher
 
R.Mackey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 7,857
Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
I read through all the responses here now.

I *********** wish I hadn't.
You and me both.

Respect for the fallen, please. He did a heck of a dirty job for the people of the USA, and whether we believe in or support the politics that led to it doesn't make a difference. He was engaged with trying to help other veterans when he was murdered. If you can't recognize the greatness of his sacrifice and the sadness of this loss, then kindly take a break.

Not going to single anybody out. Not worth it.

__________________
"Nothing real can defeat us. Nothing unreal exists." -B. Banzai

VT VENIANT OMNES
R.Mackey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd February 2013, 03:30 PM   #54
joesixpack
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,534
Originally Posted by Giz View Post
a lot of dancing on graves going on
You should have no trouble quoting those. I frankly haven't seen anyone cheering his murder.
__________________
Generally sober 'til noon.
joesixpack is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd February 2013, 03:53 PM   #55
joesixpack
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,534
Originally Posted by R.Mackey View Post
Respect for the fallen, please.
I'm on board with that
Quote:

He did a heck of a dirty job
Yes, quite dirty

Quote:
for the people of the USA,
I'll call BS on that. I'll thank him for the fact that a few more servicemen made it back alive because of his effectiveness as a sniper, but that's about where it ends.

Quote:
and whether we believe in or support the politics that led to it doesn't make a difference.
It makes ALL the difference if you're going to equate opposition to the war in Iraq with dancing on the grave of servicemen.

Quote:
He was engaged with trying to help other veterans when he was murdered. If you can't recognize the greatness of his sacrifice
You're confusing sacrifice with victimization. It's not any different than if he'd been killed in the course of a convenience store hold-up. Don't try to portray his death as something it wasn't. It was a senseless murder plain and simple.

Quote:
and the sadness of this loss
Yes, it's very sad for his family and friends.
Quote:
, then kindly take a break.

Not going to single anybody out. Not worth it.

It would be worth it if you could clear up the confusion I have. Who has been disrespectful?
__________________
Generally sober 'til noon.
joesixpack is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd February 2013, 05:44 PM   #56
Ranb
Philosopher
 
Ranb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: WA USA
Posts: 5,738
Originally Posted by Unabogie View Post
No one is celebrating, but your response is the classic No True Gun Pro excuse. Name a scenario more in favor of the good guys than one in which their guns are already in their hands and loaded?
What evidence do you have to support that claim? I didn't see it in the link you posted. What makes you think that the two murder victims were actually armed at the time they were shot?

Ranb
Ranb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd February 2013, 05:56 PM   #57
Unabogie
Philosopher
 
Unabogie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 9,352
Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
What evidence do you have to support that claim? I didn't see it in the link you posted. What makes you think that the two murder victims were actually armed at the time they were shot?

Ranb
They were at the gun range shooting? You're right, I made an assumption here, but my question still stands. Name a scenario in which you have more advantage than when you've got your gun in hand, or just nearby and loaded?

Would guns have been more out of reach than at home or at the movies?
Unabogie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd February 2013, 06:43 PM   #58
Monketey Ghost
Guitar Wizard
 
Monketey Ghost's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 20,897
Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
What a loss.

My heart goes out to his family.
I can't believe this hasn't been echoed more. A lot of you make me sick with the issue-flogging-at-any-opportunity.

This man served his country.
__________________
SSKCAS, member in long standing

"This'll teach those filthy bastards who's lovable."
Monketey Ghost is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd February 2013, 06:44 PM   #59
LTC8K6
Penultimate Amazing
 
LTC8K6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail
Posts: 15,675
It's normal to hear gunfire at the range, so unless you were in a position to see what was happening, you'd have no idea anyone was being killed. The gunshots wouldn't sound any different, especially with hearing protection being worn.

The way many ranges are set up, it's very possible that the other people wouldn't see the incident, and would have no idea anything was wrong until the killer was gone.
__________________
What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing.

2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
LTC8K6 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd February 2013, 07:01 PM   #60
LashL
Goddess of Legaltainment™
Administrator
 
LashL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 33,600
Mod WarningI split a bunch of off-topic posts about the war in Iraq and/or Afghanistan and such to AAH. Most of them would probably be perfectly fine in another thread where the subject matter is U.S. military in Iraq and/or Afghanistan, so if members wish to start such a thread and reproduce the posts there, please feel free. But for this thread, please stick to the subject matter of this thread. Thank you in advance for your anticipated cooperation.
Posted By:LashL
LashL is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd February 2013, 07:10 PM   #61
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 28,494
Originally Posted by R.Mackey View Post
You and me both.

Respect for the fallen, please. He did a heck of a dirty job for the people of the USA, and whether we believe in or support the politics that led to it doesn't make a difference. He was engaged with trying to help other veterans when he was murdered. If you can't recognize the greatness of his sacrifice and the sadness of this loss, then kindly take a break.

Not going to single anybody out. Not worth it.

What is the big deal?

Why is this so different from any other shooting?

I don't see why a veteran is worth so much more than anyone else?
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd February 2013, 07:14 PM   #62
Monketey Ghost
Guitar Wizard
 
Monketey Ghost's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 20,897
Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
What is the big deal?

Why is this so different from any other shooting?

I don't see why a veteran is worth so much more than anyone else?
Who said he was worth more than anyone else?
__________________
SSKCAS, member in long standing

"This'll teach those filthy bastards who's lovable."
Monketey Ghost is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd February 2013, 07:16 PM   #63
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 28,494
Originally Posted by Monketey Ghost View Post
Who said he was worth more than anyone else?
I don't see how this thread is different from any other thread on shootings, but it disgusts him more than them, so clearly as a veteran his murder bothers many here than other murders of innocent people.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd February 2013, 07:20 PM   #64
Monketey Ghost
Guitar Wizard
 
Monketey Ghost's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 20,897
I don't know about him, but it bothers me that there were so few expressions of condolence or respect.
__________________
SSKCAS, member in long standing

"This'll teach those filthy bastards who's lovable."
Monketey Ghost is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd February 2013, 07:23 PM   #65
BStrong
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 6,105
Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
What is the big deal?

Why is this so different from any other shooting?

I don't see why a veteran is worth so much more than anyone else?
I don't think anyone asserted that, but a few posters here wanted to grind their personal axe rather than mourn a loss.

Bad taste at the least, ironic callousness by individuals claiming to be concerned about violence, definitely.
BStrong is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd February 2013, 07:35 PM   #66
Ranb
Philosopher
 
Ranb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: WA USA
Posts: 5,738
Originally Posted by Unabogie View Post
They were at the gun range shooting? You're right, I made an assumption here, but my question still stands. Name a scenario in which you have more advantage than when you've got your gun in hand, or just nearby and loaded?

Would guns have been more out of reach than at home or at the movies?
You should quit while you are behind. While I can't think of any such scenario at the moment where I have a greater advantage, this is not what I experience at the local range I shoot at.

The article said they were at a shooting area and were killed, not much more than that at all. I didn't see anything that said they were actually shooting there. How do you know that the two murder victims were armed or even brought guns with them Probably they did, doesn't mean those guns were loaded or within easy reach.

This thread is about a couple of guys that were murdered at a shooting area presumably by some guy they were trying to help in some way. You are trying to make some sort of political statement and inventing facts to support it. Why can't you go to any of the other threads you are so damn sorry to have started and trash these people there?

Shooting areas vary a lot in the USA. Some are just remote areas where people shoot at targets. Other are facilities that cater to people who want more than just pulling the trigger. There are more than a few unarmed people at many shooting areas. I work at the KRRC each weekend. Unless I am actually at a bench and shooting, I am not armed nor do I have a firearm in easy reach. If someone wanted to go nuts and start blowing people away, I would be a sitting duck. But the roads between my house and the range are far more dangerous than the range itself.

Ranb
Ranb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd February 2013, 07:46 PM   #67
Ranb
Philosopher
 
Ranb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: WA USA
Posts: 5,738
Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
What is the big deal?

Why is this so different from any other shooting?
His death is a bit different from most other people for me. He is someone I actually knew of or and read about before he was killed; kind of like John Lennon.

Ranb
Ranb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd February 2013, 08:43 PM   #68
R.Mackey
Philosopher
 
R.Mackey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 7,857
Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
What is the big deal?

Why is this so different from any other shooting?

I don't see why a veteran is worth so much more than anyone else?
Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
I don't see how this thread is different from any other thread on shootings, but it disgusts him more than them, so clearly as a veteran his murder bothers many here than other murders of innocent people.
Now you just stop. Right there.

I didn't say he was worth more than anyone else. It doesn't disgust me more than other shootings. Your suggestion that it does is repellent. For instance, I made a similar appeal for candor in the early hours of the Newtown calamity. Your inference is based on nothing other than your own preconceptions. You can keep those.

Unlike the Newtown shooting, however, Kyle did happen to be a veteran. Obviously none of the schoolchildren were veterans. So it happens that the off-color remarks and rhetorical sniping in this thread are of a somewhat different complexion. But the sentiment is similar.

However, I'm not sure what bothers me more -- that so many people are so blinkered as to filter another man's death (any man) solely through their own politics, or that they'll go one step further, and attempt to cast aspersions at other posters based on the most idiotic logic, in this case based on a perception of omission that isn't even true.

Thanks to such ridiculous character attacks as the above, I'm beginning to reevaluate the utility of this Forum.
__________________
"Nothing real can defeat us. Nothing unreal exists." -B. Banzai

VT VENIANT OMNES
R.Mackey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd February 2013, 08:46 PM   #69
thaiboxerken
Penultimate Amazing
 
thaiboxerken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 23,569
Yes, we shouldn't talk about gun control until there is, at least, a week where no one is shot in the USA.
__________________
All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine
thaiboxerken is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd February 2013, 09:58 PM   #70
UnrepentantSinner
A post by Alan Smithee
 
UnrepentantSinner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 26,886
Originally Posted by triforcharity View Post
Sad that the death of an American serviceman, highly decorated, and highly respected, is almost celebrated by people. Very sad.
You might want to check out the comments on Free Republic, The Blaze, etc. before you engage in this sort of disdain. Many of them think this was a hit on a "Constitutional Conservative" by the Musllm/Communist/Gun Grabber government to send a message to patriots and/or to eliminate SEALs who might have inside information on the bogus bin Laden operation.
__________________
I am an American citizen who is part of American society and briefly served in the American armed forces. I use American dollars and pay taxes that support the American government. And yes, despite the editorial decison to change American politics to the nonsensical "USA politics" subforum, I follow and comment on American politics.
UnrepentantSinner is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd February 2013, 10:06 PM   #71
UnrepentantSinner
A post by Alan Smithee
 
UnrepentantSinner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 26,886
Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
And isn't that always the death knell for the "cold, dead fingers" crowd? This is rock-solid proof that no, a good guy with a gun can't stop a bad guy with a gun. (IN GENERAL!!!) Because the bad guy knows what he's doing and the good guy can't see it coming.
I have a gun nut coworker who is big on CHL. So was his former girlfriend. He told me some time back about how she'd hand both her DL and CHL to any law enforcement that pulled her over. Of course, to this day, I wonder why a "law abiding armed and responsible citizen" would get pulled over by the cops, but I don't mention that.

About a year ago her drug addicted brother bludgeoned her to death.

The schadenfreude makes me sick to this day, but I nearly bite my tongue in half when he get's all gun nutty at work and I want to simply say that having her CHL and gun didn't help her on that tragic afternoon.
__________________
I am an American citizen who is part of American society and briefly served in the American armed forces. I use American dollars and pay taxes that support the American government. And yes, despite the editorial decison to change American politics to the nonsensical "USA politics" subforum, I follow and comment on American politics.
UnrepentantSinner is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd February 2013, 10:13 PM   #72
Checkmite
Skepticifimisticalationist
 
Checkmite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 18,282
"American Sniper" Chris Kyle murdered

Originally Posted by Monketey Ghost View Post

This man served his country.
Are you referring to Kyle or his killer? The same is true of both, and I haven't seen anyone bad-mouthing the victims.
__________________
"¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD?
¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?"
--- Carlos S., 2002
Checkmite is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd February 2013, 10:16 PM   #73
UnrepentantSinner
A post by Alan Smithee
 
UnrepentantSinner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 26,886
Originally Posted by R.Mackey View Post
You and me both.

Respect for the fallen, please. He did a heck of a dirty job for the people of the USA, and whether we believe in or support the politics that led to it doesn't make a difference. He was engaged with trying to help other veterans when he was murdered. If you can't recognize the greatness of his sacrifice and the sadness of this loss, then kindly take a break.

Not going to single anybody out. Not worth it.

Local station KDFW has been running an interview where he talks about taking out targets and how he justified doing so ethically. They were bad guys who were looking to do harm to our guys (and gals) in a combat environment so he had a clear conscience. I concur 100 percent.
__________________
I am an American citizen who is part of American society and briefly served in the American armed forces. I use American dollars and pay taxes that support the American government. And yes, despite the editorial decison to change American politics to the nonsensical "USA politics" subforum, I follow and comment on American politics.
UnrepentantSinner is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd February 2013, 10:36 PM   #74
quadraginta
What was the question?
 
quadraginta's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Vale of Humility
Posts: 9,686
Originally Posted by Elypsis44 View Post
**** happens.



Now, to be fair, the killer could have just as easily used a car, pool or a bottle of 18 year-old scotch.

No way.

Somebody would have noticed if he had been packing a pool.
__________________
"It never does just what I want, but only what I tell it."
quadraginta is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd February 2013, 11:40 PM   #75
Puppycow
Penultimate Amazing
 
Puppycow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,321
Originally Posted by UnrepentantSinner View Post
http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/rough...189536271.html

He was shot at a firing range being used to rehab troopers with PTSD. The suspect is a former Marine who fled the Erath County crime scene in Kyle's truck and was arrested near Lancaster (south of Dallas).
Is this standard treatment for people with PTSD?

Perhaps therapy should be left to professional therapists.

I'm sure his heart was in the right place, but just because he was an excellent sniper doesn't make him an excellent therapist.

Quote:
“It was just two great guys with Chad and Chris trying to help out a veteran in need and making time out of their day to help him. And to give him a hand. And unfortunately this thing happened,” Cox said.

Bryant seemed to confirm that scenario. The sheriff said Routh’s mother “may have reached out to Mr. Kyle to try to help her son.”

“We kind of have an idea that maybe that’s why they were at the range for some type of therapy that Mr. Kyle assists people with. And I don’t know if it’s called shooting therapy, I don’t have any idea,” Bryant said.

Lt. Cmdr. Rorke Denver, who served with Kyle on SEAL Team 3 in Iraq in 2006, called Kyle a champion of the modern battlefield. Denver wasn’t surprised that Kyle apparently used a shooting range to help someone with PTSD.

“For us, for warriors, that’s a skill set that has become very familiar, very comfortable for us,” said Denver, a lieutenant commander in a reserve SEAL team. His book “Damn Few,” about training SEALs, will be released this month. “So I actually see it as kind of a perfect use of Chris’ unique skill set and expertise of which he has very few peers.”
link

Yes, but is it good for the patient?

Color me skeptical of this sort of "therapy".
__________________
“Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them. With Major Major it had been all three.”
― Joseph Heller, Catch-22
Puppycow is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th February 2013, 12:33 AM   #76
OnlyTellsTruths
 
OnlyTellsTruths's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 7,828
Many of the posts by the anti-gun crowd in this thread are not only sad, but quite telling.
__________________
________________________
OnlyTellsTruths is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th February 2013, 01:11 AM   #77
qayak
Penultimate Amazing
 
qayak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 10,435
Originally Posted by OnlyTellsTruths View Post
Many of the posts by the anti-gun crowd in this thread are not only sad, but quite telling.
The whining of the pro-gun crowd in this thread is very sad and telling.
__________________
"The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who can't read them."

(Mark Twain)
qayak is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th February 2013, 01:17 AM   #78
manofthesea
2wu4u
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,655
Originally Posted by OnlyTellsTruths View Post
Many of the posts by the anti-gun crowd in this thread are not only sad, but quite telling.
My condolences to all victims of gun violence.
I own a few handguns, a .38 snub, a couple of .22 mags, all safely locked away.
But I fear gun nutters are just beginning to 'tell their story'.
manofthesea is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th February 2013, 02:29 AM   #79
SezMe
post-pre-born
 
SezMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 18,749
Originally Posted by R.Mackey View Post
However, I'm not sure what bothers me more -- that so many people are so blinkered as to filter another man's death (any man) solely through their own politics, ...
I have a couple of problems with this. First, the "solely" part. I don't think you know that.

Second, the larger idea that people would "filter" their views through a political lens. Gun laws are a hot political topic now. Strong views are held on all sides. It is hard to see how engaged people would not be influenced by their political biases. Including you, R.Mackey. Including me, too. Including all the other posters in this - and other - gun related threads. Such filtering is an inevitable consequence of our inherent and inescapable confirmation biases. That you would call this "blinkered" is ... well, blinkered.
SezMe is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th February 2013, 04:36 AM   #80
Halfcentaur
Philosopher
 
Halfcentaur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 6,645
Funny that how pointing out in situations when innocents are killed that if someone were there with a gun it might not have happened isn't disrespecting the victims, but pointing out that in a situation where innocents were killed that guns in the area did not change much is somehow using the victims and their tragedy in some disrespectful way.

Is suggesting someone present and armed at a public shooting could have prevented the shooting also dancing on the graves of the victims just to pander to your political positions?

I don't recall seeing that accusation applied, rather it seems people are just angry about the issue and are trying to think of a way it could not have happened. I guess something about this is different. Perhaps not approving of armed bystanders is callous and indicative of self interest, while approving of them is just thinking of how to save the victims.

I think it's just more people spinning things to make themselves feel sanctimonious while denigrating those they disagree with as a bonus.
Halfcentaur is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:35 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2014, TribeTech AB. All Rights Reserved.
This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.