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Old 16th December 2011, 01:58 PM   #41
Ladewig
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Originally Posted by Lamuella View Post
here's an associated question:

Why would someone who advertises having psychic powers and believes they could take and win this challenge not do so?
Well, the most common reason given is that when one is using one's God-given gift for something as base as making money, then the gift doesn't work - which is usually quickly followed up by, when perform my gift for high-paying clients, that's different, because they are making a donation after I demonstrate my supernatural power.

To you and me, that sounds like pure bunkum, but there are millions of believers who lap it up.

The second most popular reason is "the goat effect." The supernaturalist says, "my powers won't work around so many negative people. I can only perform art my best when surrounded by loving believers."
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Old 16th December 2011, 02:02 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post

But if, like so many of these things, it seems to be useless for anything but showing off, then why not? If all your power amounts to is a parlor trick like bending spoons, then you get a million bucks and a boost to a career of showing off. .
Didn't one young applicant claim that if she was blindfolded, then she could tell what color paper was held underneath her nose (when the paper was held at a certain angle (in a well-lit room))?
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Old 17th December 2011, 12:11 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Ladewig View Post
Well, the most common reason given is that when one is using one's God-given gift for something as base as making money...
A buddy of mine was at a "gentleman's" club recently, and apparently one of the less attractive "dancers" was annoyingly hovering around him for a while and when she mentioned that she was psychic and knew the future, he asked, "Then why did you come to this table?" [/DERAIL]
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Old 17th December 2011, 06:20 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by wardenclyffe View Post
I'd be angry that the skeptical community had been tricked, but I'd be relieved that the laws of physics did not have to be re-written.
What?! You mean such a monumental, earth-shattering discovery would be a bad thing?! Despite who knows what-all kinds of potential technological and scientific breakthroughs it would create?!
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Old 17th December 2011, 09:41 PM   #45
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It would be awesome if it happened. JREF would probably win a Nobel Prize for discovering it. That, of course, would ease the pain of losing a million dollars.

But the scenario I was describing was someone pulling off a successful hoax by which they would win the million.

It would be annoying and difficult to re-write the laws of physics and have technological and scientific breakthroughs based on a hoax.

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Old 17th December 2011, 11:23 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by mike3 View Post
What?! You mean such a monumental, earth-shattering discovery would be a bad thing?! Despite who knows what-all kinds of potential technological and scientific breakthroughs it would create?!
I know what you mean. It really would be wonderful to have such a new and exciting field open up. But that's also why we have to be so careful and have such tight controls on the tests. If someone were to pass then we would want to have as much information as possible and to have prevented as many errors as we can. It would be too important to allow sloppy testing.

I really wish those who go into JREF test negotiations could understand that skeptics are not the enemy. We would love to see something new and different, we just want to be absolutely sure it's real.
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Old 18th December 2011, 02:34 AM   #47
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If I realized that I have a globally rare or indeed unique ability, but I would be as vulnerable as anyone else to violence, assassination by shooting or poisoning, kidnapping etc. -- I would avoid public spotlights such as the JREF challenge. The best defense is not to let anyone know that you possess something remarkably worthwhile.
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Old 18th December 2011, 02:58 AM   #48
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Why would you fear assasination?

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Old 18th December 2011, 10:37 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by JJM 777 View Post
If I realized that I have a globally rare or indeed unique ability, but I would be as vulnerable as anyone else to violence, assassination by shooting or poisoning, kidnapping etc. -- I would avoid public spotlights such as the JREF challenge. The best defense is not to let anyone know that you possess something remarkably worthwhile.
And once more, yet again, rinse and repeat-this Challenge is not for people that think as you do. it is for all those that openly claim to have paranormal abilities.
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Old 18th December 2011, 10:50 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by JJM 777 View Post
If I realized that I have a globally rare or indeed unique ability, but I would be as vulnerable as anyone else to violence, assassination by shooting or poisoning, kidnapping etc. -- I would avoid public spotlights such as the JREF challenge. The best defense is not to let anyone know that you possess something remarkably worthwhile.
.
At my age, 1 million dollars is way beyond my needs.
I'd have no use for it.
And wouldn't share it, either!
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Old 18th December 2011, 01:45 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by wardenclyffe View Post
Why would you fear assasination?
For the same reason why politicians, business leaders and celebrities have bodyguards. Heck, Benny Hinn has a horde of bodyguards at every meeting, and he lives in a gated and guarded area of rich people. And he doesn´t even have any powers.
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Old 18th December 2011, 01:46 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
this Challenge is not for people that think as you do. it is for all those that openly claim to have paranormal abilities.
It is for those who have no way of creating wealth with what they have, so they need to beg from JREF.
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Old 18th December 2011, 02:33 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by JJM 777 View Post
For the same reason why politicians, business leaders and celebrities have bodyguards. Heck, Benny Hinn has a horde of bodyguards at every meeting, and he lives in a gated and guarded area of rich people. And he doesn´t even have any powers.
So, it has nothing to do with psychic powers? You just don't want to be rich? If you ever feel you are accumulating too much wealth, I'll be happy to relieve you of some of it.

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Old 18th December 2011, 02:40 PM   #54
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I am of the the mind that "psecret psychics"(if they exist) need not care about the MDC one way or another. We certainly aren't going to hear from them, are we? The MDC only concerns itself with those that make public claims. On the other hand, people like you, JJM 777, are doing them no service by reminding others that they exist.
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Last edited by Czarcasm; 18th December 2011 at 02:41 PM. Reason: spllinge
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Old 20th December 2011, 03:43 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by wardenclyffe View Post
So, it has nothing to do with psychic powers? You just don't want to be rich?
If I were rich, I would do the lottery jackpot winner thing and conceal it from anyone else than my banker. A small number of lottery jackpot winners actually go public about it, a small minority of them I imagine. Can we draw a conclusion that if people had psychic powers, similarly most of them would conceal it and quietly use the force for personal economical gain?

Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
secret psychics
(...)
people like you, JJM 777, are doing them no service by reminding others that they exist.
Wait, I see some ideas and conclusions put into my mouth here.
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Old 20th December 2011, 08:51 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by JJM 777 View Post
Can we draw a conclusion that if people had psychic powers, similarly most of them would conceal it and quietly use the force for personal economical gain
And every single one of them are so good at hiding the ability that not a single one has been found out? Adding something that is highly improbable to something that is(to the best of our knowledge) pretty much impossible isn't really helping your argument.
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Old 20th December 2011, 12:02 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by JJM 777 View Post
If I were rich, I would do the lottery jackpot winner thing and conceal it from anyone else than my banker. A small number of lottery jackpot winners actually go public about it, a small minority of them I imagine.
I'm pretty sure that most lotteries require that the winners are announced publicly. The lottery tickets I have seen all say that the people who run the lottery have the right to publish the winner's name and likeness. That is one of the ways they promote the lottery. They publicize the winners whether the winners want the publicity or not.

Then the winners all face assassination apparently.

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Old 20th December 2011, 12:28 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by JJM 777 View Post
If I realized that I have a globally rare or indeed unique ability, but I would be as vulnerable as anyone else to violence, assassination by shooting or poisoning, kidnapping etc. -- I would avoid public spotlights such as the JREF challenge. The best defense is not to let anyone know that you possess something remarkably worthwhile.
So, are most Nobel Prize winners and Rockefeller Foundation fellows doing it wrong?
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Old 20th December 2011, 01:53 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by JJM 777 View Post
If I realized that I have a globally rare or indeed unique ability, but I would be as vulnerable as anyone else to violence, assassination by shooting or poisoning, kidnapping etc. -- I would avoid public spotlights such as the JREF challenge. The best defense is not to let anyone know that you possess something remarkably worthwhile.
That's an interesting catch, there, since if you're correct, then you can be quite sure than nobody claiming such abilities is honest, and nobody with such abilities is known. In this case, even those who believe that such abilities exist must concede that there's no evidence at all that they do.
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Old 8th February 2013, 10:36 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by MontagK505 View Post
he would use his ability in casinos to supplement his income. But he was smart enough not to over do it so he wouldn't get his knee caps broken or worse.

.
I watched the movie a couple of months ago and I disagree. He wasn't smart enough to fly below the radar - the whole story starts when casino security notices him.

. . . . . . . . .
As for the OP, there is one reason that has not been mentioned yet. The I-told-you-so factor. Some people would take the challenge just to say nyaa-nyaa to the skeptics.
.
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Last edited by Ladewig; 8th February 2013 at 10:40 AM.
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Old 8th February 2013, 10:38 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
If I had a secret power that allowed me to ... whisk money out of bank vaults ... I don't think the challenge would be the best way to exploit it.
What do you think the best way to exploit such a power is?
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Old 8th February 2013, 11:10 AM   #62
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Lots of transparent excuses in this thread. I particularly like the one about "not daring to demonstrate my powers out of fear of what 'they' might do to me".

Take autistic savants, people who can, for example, do complex sums in their heads -- do you see Illuminati snipers forming lines to shoot then? Do all of them try to hide their abilities? Are they surrounded by scientists and paparazzis 24/7? What about the CERN people who discovered the "God particle", have any of them disappeared yet?

Of course not. Why would they be? We don't live in a bad Conspiracy flick, after all, we live in the real world.
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Old 8th February 2013, 11:49 AM   #63
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If I had a power I would keep it secret.
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Old 8th February 2013, 11:56 AM   #64
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...and?
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Old 8th February 2013, 11:58 AM   #65
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I would learn to play poker.
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Old 8th February 2013, 03:28 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
Lots of transparent excuses in this thread. I particularly like the one about "not daring to demonstrate my powers out of fear of what 'they' might do to me".

Take autistic savants, people who can, for example, do complex sums in their heads -- do you see Illuminati snipers forming lines to shoot then? Do all of them try to hide their abilities? Are they surrounded by scientists and paparazzis 24/7? What about the CERN people who discovered the "God particle", have any of them disappeared yet?

Of course not. Why would they be? We don't live in a bad Conspiracy flick, after all, we live in the real world.
What you say is true. The error that these potential applicants make is thinking that they are as powerful as Professor X or Magneto. If such characters existed, the government would at least take an interest in them.

Sometimes this over-inflated sense of importance is the result of mild or severe mental illness. Sad cases - and often difficult to get these folks to see medical professionals.


...............
While poking around the internet checking up on the exact powers the X-men had, I came across the term "cyberpath." Using one's mind to control computers. That would be awesome - I would always win at Mario Cart.
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Last edited by Ladewig; 8th February 2013 at 03:30 PM.
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Old 9th February 2013, 06:57 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Jomante View Post
So to my original question for the thread: If anybody could pass the challenge, why would they?
Originally Posted by Moon-Spinner View Post
If I had a special "Gift", and could rake in big bucks, I think I would be more on the side of caution - I wouldn't let anybody know what I was able to do. It's hard to say what may come over me if put into that situation though.

So for me, I wouldn't take the million dollar challenge, and try to live under the radar.
I think I would take the challenge myself for two reasons:

I would rather live honestly. Using a paranormal ability to dishonestly steal money from other people, even if I could make more money that way, would make me feel bad. Secondly, the million dollars would be only the beginning. I could still make lots more money after that. People would pay me to give demonstrations of the ability. I could write a book that would probably be a bestseller. Or have a ghostwriter write one for me. Scientists would want to study me. In short, there would be no shortage of honest ways to make scads of money without resorting to using the ability to steal.
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Old 9th February 2013, 07:04 PM   #68
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People (Human Beings) LOVE, power, prestige and money.
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Old 9th February 2013, 11:49 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
I think I would take the challenge myself for two reasons:

I would rather live honestly. Using a paranormal ability to dishonestly steal money from other people, even if I could make more money that way, would make me feel bad. Secondly, the million dollars would be only the beginning. I could still make lots more money after that. People would pay me to give demonstrations of the ability. I could write a book that would probably be a bestseller. Or have a ghostwriter write one for me. Scientists would want to study me. In short, there would be no shortage of honest ways to make scads of money without resorting to using the ability to steal.
Interesting perspective. I am fascinated by how differently people define stealing. In another thread, some posters suggested that psychically placing a roulette ball in a specific slot was not stealing, while others held that it was.

Which of these is stealing (if any)

seeing the future and buying land before oil is discovered.
seeing the future and buying stocks to make a profit.
seeing the future and playing blackjack in a casino.
seeing the future and betting on sports.
seeing the future and playing poker
reading minds and playing poker.
telekineticly manipulating the dice while playing craps.
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Old 10th February 2013, 12:07 AM   #70
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I'd be going for a Nobel instead. After testing myself I would work with an experienced skeptic experimenter to produce something publishable. Maybe even some folks from around here.

I wouldn't be worried about being the focus of unwanted government attention. I think it would be more a case of bringing new attention on alleged psychic phenomena. After all if the average proponent is to believed, everyone has potential to do such things.

This is of course a pipe dream as such phenomena have been repeatedly tested and with zero indication that there is anything in the claims.
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Old 10th February 2013, 06:30 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Ladewig View Post
Interesting perspective. I am fascinated by how differently people define stealing. In another thread, some posters suggested that psychically placing a roulette ball in a specific slot was not stealing, while others held that it was.

Which of these is stealing (if any)

seeing the future and buying land before oil is discovered.
seeing the future and buying stocks to make a profit.
seeing the future and playing blackjack in a casino.
seeing the future and betting on sports.
seeing the future and playing poker
reading minds and playing poker.
telekineticly manipulating the dice while playing craps.
All of them.
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Old 10th February 2013, 07:57 AM   #72
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Since casinos make it their business to spot people who're luckier than they really ought to be, perhaps a better way to identify concealed psychics is instead to research patent applications from people with absolutely no prior knowledge of the field to which their patent applies, but which immediately precedes a discovery which makes their patent a moneyspinner.

That's what I might do if a) it wasn't morally repugnant and b) psychic powers actually existed, which they don't.
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Old 10th February 2013, 02:28 PM   #73
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If a 'psychic power' is defined as something that does not exist, it's a safe bet there are no psychic powers.
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Old 10th February 2013, 02:41 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by r-j View Post
If a 'psychic power' is defined as something that does not exist, it's a safe bet there are no psychic powers.
It's not a very useful definition and psychic powers aren't defined that way. They're phenomena which contradict what we presently believe we've established about how the world works.
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Old 10th February 2013, 05:32 PM   #75
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If there is no phenomena, then there is no power.
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Old 10th February 2013, 05:45 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by r-j View Post
If there is no phenomena, then there is no power.
And the purpose of the challenge is to establish whether a claimed phenomenon exists or not.

Last edited by Jack by the hedge; 10th February 2013 at 05:46 PM.
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Old 10th February 2013, 05:49 PM   #77
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And the reason no one has passed it, is because no one has any powers. They don't exist.
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Old 10th February 2013, 06:14 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by deaman View Post
And the reason no one has passed it, is because no one has any powers. They don't exist.
You are correct. There is zero evidence for the observation of, the existence of, or the mechanism behind psychic powers. There is overwhelming evidence that the brain can easily make mistakes in processing information and remembering events. There is also overwhelming evidence that some people lie about possessing powers either for financial gain of just for grins.
But the purpose of the MDC is not to show that such powers do not exist - the purpose is to show that folks who make money off their scams are always unwilling to submit to controlled testing: even testing that tests exactly what the scammers claim they can do.
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Last edited by Ladewig; 10th February 2013 at 06:17 PM.
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Old 10th February 2013, 06:16 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
All of them.
I am in more agreement than disagreement.

How about dowsing beaches looking for lost objects? Is that stealing, cheating, or otherwise immoral?
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Old 10th February 2013, 08:10 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by Ladewig View Post
I am in more agreement than disagreement.

How about dowsing beaches looking for lost objects? Is that stealing, cheating, or otherwise immoral?
No, although in some cases it would be honorable to return the objects to their rightful owners if possible. If one could locate sunken treasure, the owners of which are dead, I think that would be honest.

The buying stocks thing seems like you could rationalize that, but it's similar to insider trading, which is illegal, in that you are taking advantage of information that the other party isn't privy to make a trade that is to their disadvantage although they don't realize it.

If you could find oil, there's probably an honest way to use that ability to make lots of money, without ripping anyone off. Oil companies would probably pay you a lot of money to help them find oil for example. I'm sure there's a way that this could be done ethically without keeping the info secret from unsuspecting landowners.
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