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Old 16th February 2013, 10:07 AM   #481
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Originally Posted by BangBang View Post
Just when you think Truthers couldn't get anymore disgusting. Besides that, you didn't address any of the post. Why not?
I did address it. It's not my problem if it went over your head.
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Old 16th February 2013, 10:36 AM   #482
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There was plenty of metal to melt in the towers. Copper (miles and miles of cable) Aluminium and lead all spring to mind.
How would a firefighter seeing molten metal know what metal he was seeing?
We have a whole thread on this somewhere.
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Old 16th February 2013, 10:36 AM   #483
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
When does the building get to break the weak points on the jet.
In case you didn’t notice, it did.

ETA; Sorry, I see this was addressed.
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Last edited by fess; 16th February 2013 at 10:39 AM.
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Old 16th February 2013, 10:43 AM   #484
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
You are very willing to forgive people who began rumors that resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people.

The reason the molten steel lie is significant is because it isn't just an isolated indiscretion. When FEMA, NASA, the USGS, the FDNY and the NYPD as well as dozens of media outlets AND the ironically-named 9/11 Truth Movement ALL sing the same tune and that tune is a blatant lie, it takes a gigantic leap of faith to keep telling yourself it was all an accident.

Talk about a preponderence of evidence!
Mighty mountain you're making out of that molehill. Here's my reponse, you'll like it because it's Youtube, not "TeeVee" and won't "brainwash you".

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
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Old 16th February 2013, 11:36 AM   #485
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Looks pretty hollow to me.

That 1/3 of a second won't mean much after the cockpit is wiped out on impact and the rest of the fuselage tube walls acting like a long cookie cutter of thin aluminum. You guys make it sound like the air in the cabin makes the jet a battering ram.


Hollow Inside

http://yankee451.com/wp-content/uplo...-jet-crash.png

http://www.airliners.net/photo/South...8H4/2137913/L/
Still on this hollow fuselage lie… eh? Using your analogy, I suppose the passengers were issued wooden orange crates for seating. Where does all of the luggage and cargo fit? The cabin floor is not part of the structural strength? Not to mention the various bulkheads, stringers, ribs, and other structural members that give the fuselage its strength.

Any idiot looking at your picture of a B-727 can tell you it is by no means hollow. No more hollow than a B-757/767.


Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
It should have been going the speed of sound, that would have obliterated that blast barrier, eh?

Hollow and No Match Concrete.
Utter stupidity at its best. How fast was this aircraft going when it hit the blast barrier?
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Old 16th February 2013, 11:42 AM   #486
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
You are very willing to forgive people who began rumors that resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people.

The reason the molten steel lie is significant is because it isn't just an isolated indiscretion. When FEMA, NASA, the USGS, the FDNY and the NYPD as well as dozens of media outlets AND the ironically-named 9/11 Truth Movement ALL sing the same tune and that tune is a blatant lie, it takes a gigantic leap of faith to keep telling yourself it was all an accident.

Talk about a preponderence of evidence!
Nope. You made stuff up, now you have to roll the hard six, and support your claims.

Your continuing attempts to reverse the burden of proof are becoming tiresome.
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Old 16th February 2013, 11:42 AM   #487
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
If you were tasked with faking a jet crash, wouldn't you prep the site?
Oh, I might try to “prep” the area if it weren’t that thousands of people may get a little concerned about me removing three floors of trusses, sheeting, and concrete. How did they get all of that material out of the building?
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Old 16th February 2013, 11:45 AM   #488
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I would like to point out that most of a missile, by the time it reaches the target, is hollow. The tube can also be made of aluminum. This isn't rocket science... or maybe it is.
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Old 16th February 2013, 11:57 AM   #489
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Maybe they pulled the 300 lb glass panes out with chewing gum.
Still having trouble with vertical and horizontal strength are you? I explained this to you in very simple terms previously so even you could understand it.
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Old 16th February 2013, 12:30 PM   #490
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
I would like to point out that most of a missile, by the time it reaches the target, is hollow. The tube can also be made of aluminum. This isn't rocket science... or maybe it is.
The penetrating warhead is capable of punching through hardened bunkers and weighs 900 lbs and measures 12x60 inches.

the gouge in the below image is in a column measuring 14 inches. Based on the column size, that gouge looks to be about 12 inches wide, which means it could easily have been caused by a dense metal penetrating warhead of the same diameter.



Quote:
The warhead concept was a 1000 pound dense or ballasted penetrator. The warhead would either be designed with a dense metal case or contain dense metal ballast for maximum penetration. The warhead would be filled with advanced insensitive explosive to compensate for the reduced charge weight. This concept used the Hard Target Smart Fuze (HTSF), an accelerometer based electronic fuze, which would allow control of the detonation point by layer counting, distance or time. The accelerometer senses G loads on the bomb due to deceleration as it penetrates through to the target. The fuze can distinguish between earth, concrete, rock and air.
http://www.dyess.af.mil/library/fact...t.asp?id=17954
Lookie here - more 12 inch gouges:
http://yankee451.com/wp-content/uplo...-closeup-1.png

Edited by LashL:  Changed oversized image to link, as overly large images mess with the formatting of the thread.

Last edited by LashL; 16th February 2013 at 01:09 PM.
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Old 16th February 2013, 12:46 PM   #491
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
The penetrating warhead is capable of punching through hardened bunkers and weighs 900 lbs and measures 12x60 inches.

the gouge in the below image is in a column measuring 14 inches. Based on the column size, that gouge looks to be about 12 inches wide, which means it could easily have been caused by a dense metal penetrating warhead of the same diameter.
I'm trying to make sense of that image. Are you saying the missile skipped along, bending and gouging steel beams and then, what? made a hard left turn to go into the building?

Everything looks bent inward to me. I'd expect stuff to be bent outward if there was a military style explosion, but maybe not?
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Old 16th February 2013, 01:39 PM   #492
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
I'm trying to make sense of that image. Are you saying the missile skipped along, bending and gouging steel beams and then, what? made a hard left turn to go into the building?

Everything looks bent inward to me. I'd expect stuff to be bent outward if there was a military style explosion, but maybe not?
It detonated.
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Old 16th February 2013, 01:50 PM   #493
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yankee451
I have already admitted several mistakes and this is another. I stand corrected.
Originally Posted by AJM8125 View Post
Me too. Baby steps.
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Old 16th February 2013, 02:56 PM   #494
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
It's good to know you guys are working so hard to keep me honest, I'm not in this game to be right, but to learn the truth and I appreciate your perspectives. This is the closest thing to a peer review I am going to get, so thank you.
You're welcome.

Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
So back to the really hot fires.

Rumors of fires so intense they could melt steel were started by the FDNY, NYPD, FEMA, etc. and were continued by the Truth Movement. I'm still waiting for someone to tell me why they would all be singing the same song.
They weren't. 9/11 truthers, apparently too stupid to understand the concepts of hyperbole, simile and metaphor, took first responder quotes literally.
Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
These rumors came from the authorities, as seeen in this video:
http://911conspiracy.wordpress.com/2...atures-at-wtc/
Great video with many examples of my point above, thanks Steve.

Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
The media, the authorities, and the "Truth Movement" all singing the same tune until today when virtually everyone takes for granted the towers fell because of really hot fires.
Well there's also the teensy detail of severe structural damage along with fire, but that's quibbling, right?

Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
But there weren't any.
No?



Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
I may have fallen for Steve WarRan's false lead about Dun and Bradstreet, but that doesn't mean the buildings were fully occupied, it just means I need to be more careful. I've been corrected on a few things already, so don't stop now.
I'll give you this Steve - I've worked in commercial real estate for coming up on 24 years and I've never had any building at 100% capacity. Ever. My current account has over 70,000 square feet available and another 52,000 coming up by the end of Q3 this year. That translates to 5 floors. So no, no building is ever fully leased and I expect the WTC was no exception.

Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
If the buildings were fully occupied, where are the floors to the left and right of the hole? Where is the raging inferno of office material on the nonexistent floors?, and even if a jet could do such a thing, in order to bend the panels like that, they couldn't have been backed by three acres of concrete each. I stand corrected on Dun and Bradstreet. Where are the floors?


You're looking into a smoke filled gash created by a 767. What stood there before was obliterated. Do you really expect to see intact structure there?

Last edited by AJM8125; 16th February 2013 at 03:00 PM. Reason: god damned pronouns
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Old 16th February 2013, 05:09 PM   #495
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I notice that Yankee seems to always dismiss the Kamikaze attacks on US and British ships for some reason.

Why is this?

Aluminium Aircraft were deliberately crashed into steel warships and they
punched holes in the sides and decks.
They were smaller than the aircraft that hit the towers and the ships were stronger.
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Old 16th February 2013, 05:19 PM   #496
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
I notice that Yankee seems to always dismiss the Kamikaze attacks on US and British ships for some reason.

Why is this?

Aluminium Aircraft were deliberately crashed into steel warships and they
punched holes in the sides and decks.
They were smaller than the aircraft that hit the towers and the ships were stronger.
He dismisses it because he doesn't apparently want to hear about it.
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Old 16th February 2013, 05:36 PM   #497
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
He dismisses it because he doesn't apparently want to hear about it.
Tell him it's because I'm waiting to hear why a Kamikaze is like a 767 and how the hull of a warship is like the twin towers.

I have researched Hinsdale, as well as other vessels struck by suicide planes; eventually the true-believers will point to the Kamikazes as proof of something. I want to hear what you think that something is.
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Old 16th February 2013, 05:42 PM   #498
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Well, one is an aircraft made of aluminium, the other is a ship made of a hull made from continuous steel plate backed by forged steel ribs and horizontal steel decks etc.


A 767 is an aircraft made out of aluminium and the towers are made out of hollow steel columns.

If an aluminium aircraft can crash into a steel ship and break through the continuous steel of the hull, why can't a much bigger and heavier aircraft break through the columns of the building?
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Old 16th February 2013, 05:46 PM   #499
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There's an obvious difference. Saudi's and Japanese. You have to be a better pilot to hit a ship.
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Old 16th February 2013, 05:51 PM   #500
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Originally Posted by AJM8125 View Post
9/11 truthers, apparently too stupid to understand the concepts of hyperbole, simile and metaphor, took first responder quotes literally.
They took themselves seriously enough to make a museum exhibit about it; that's a bit more than hyperbole. Dozens of news paper articles, endless comments on the news about the hotspots, NASA's images of the ground 1300 degrees, but no, simple office fires wouldn't do that.

Originally Posted by AJM8125 View Post
Well there's also the teensy detail of severe structural damage along with fire, but that's quibbling, right?
The fires were not hot enough to melt or even weaken that much steel, especially over such a short time, and if the "severe" structural damage wasn't enough to bring them down immediately, it wouldn't be enough to bring them down an hour later. It's a paradox, a conundrum.

Originally Posted by AJM8125 View Post
You're looking into a smoke filled gash created by a 767. What stood there before was obliterated. Do you really expect to see intact structure there?
Yes. As stated before, the hollow tube of the fuselage was 17 feet in diameter.

The hole is twice that size.
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Old 16th February 2013, 05:52 PM   #501
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Originally Posted by AJM8125 View Post

I'll give you this Steve - I've worked in commercial real estate for coming up on 24 years and I've never had any building at 100% capacity. Ever. My current account has over 70,000 square feet available and another 52,000 coming up by the end of Q3 this year. That translates to 5 floors. So no, no building is ever fully leased and I expect the WTC was no exception.
http://www.nytimes.com/1998/05/31/re...ooking-up.html
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Old 16th February 2013, 06:03 PM   #502
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Well, one is an aircraft made of aluminium, the other is a ship made of a hull made from continuous steel plate backed by forged steel ribs and horizontal steel decks etc.


A 767 is an aircraft made out of aluminium and the towers are made out of hollow steel columns.

If an aluminium aircraft can crash into a steel ship and break through the continuous steel of the hull, why can't a much bigger and heavier aircraft break through the columns of the building?
Well, besides the fact that the hull was plate steel, not a series of square columns (only one surface to contend with), there's the simple fact of the BOMBS attached to the WARPLANE.


Quote:
Later investigation indicated that a Jap suicide plane, probably a Tony Kawasaki Ki-61 carrying three 132 lb. bombs hit the ship on the port side at the water line in the vicinity of frame 80. The ship was holed in three places: A seven foot hole in the engine room at the water line caused by the engine and fuselage to which it is believed was attached a bomb which was the first explosion, a ten inch hole in the engine room about 2 feet above the water line caused by a bomb which was later discovered as a dud, and a four foot hole in Compartment A-304-EL a crew's berthing space, caused by a bomb which was the second explosion."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Hinsdale_%28APA-120%29
Kamikaze planes did indeed cause considerable damage to steel hulls in WWII. Most Kamikaze planes that were used specifically for Kamikaze attack were little more than flying torpedoes designed to puncture steel hulls. However what's clear when looking at these images is the wings didn't punch through the steel.

The 767 was presumably not so equipped.



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Old 16th February 2013, 06:35 PM   #503
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A ships hull is thicker steel than your columns and isn't just a flat plate. It is backed by steel ribs and decks. It is a lot tougher than the clumns of the towers. Each individual column is a lot weaker than the side of the ship. It is each column that has to take the impact.

You will note that in your quote the bomb was a 'dud'. it didn't explode.

Explain what you mean by 'flying torpedo'? Most Kamikaze attacks were by fighters and bombers just flown into the ships. By that time in the war the Japanese air force had pilots with minimal training able to take off and crash, that's all they were expected to do. Just like the Hijackers on 911.

On 911 what the aircraft had was massively more weight, size and importantly speed. plus their target was bigger and built from small thin walled columns compared to the hull of a warship.

What damage do you think would be done a ship if it was hit by an airliner at 500 miles an hour weighing over a hundred tons as compared to a small single seat fighter moving slower and weighing a fraction of the airliner?

Buildings are designed to stand up. Warships are designed ro be damaged and survive.

Last edited by Captain_Swoop; 16th February 2013 at 06:37 PM.
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Old 16th February 2013, 06:41 PM   #504
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post

A ships hull is thicker steel than your columns and isn't just a flat plate. It is backed by steel ribs and decks. It is a lot tougher than the clumns of the towers. Each individual column is a lot weaker than the side of the ship. It is each column that has to take the impact.

You will note that in your quote the bomb was a 'dud'. it didn't explode.

Explain what you mean by 'flying torpedo'? Most Kamikaze attacks were by fighters and bombers just flown into the ships. By that time in the war the Japanese air force had pilots with minimal training able to take off and crash, that's all they were expected to do. Just like the Hijackers on 911.

On 911 what the aircraft had was massively more weight, size and importantly speed. plus their target was bigger and built from small thin walled columns compared to the hull of a warship.

What damage do you think would be done a ship if it was hit by an airliner at 500 miles an hour weighing over a hundred tons as compared to a small single seat fighter moving slower and weighing a fraction of the airliner?

Buildings are designed to stand up. Warships are designed ro be damaged and survive.
Tell me you're not still comparing a warship to the Twin Towers.

Honestly.

You're going for the straw in the hurricane next, right?
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Old 16th February 2013, 06:45 PM   #505
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Tell me you're not still comparing a warship to the Twin Towers.

Honestly.

You're going for the straw in the hurricane next, right?
Just to clarify, you agree then, that if the WTC had been built in the same way a battleship was built, a commercial airliner could have caused the damage seen?
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Old 16th February 2013, 08:28 PM   #506
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
Just to clarify, you agree then, that if the WTC had been built in the same way a battleship was built, a commercial airliner could have caused the damage seen?
No.
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Old 16th February 2013, 09:06 PM   #507
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
They took themselves seriously enough to make a museum exhibit about it; that's a bit more than hyperbole. Dozens of news paper articles, endless comments on the news about the hotspots, NASA's images of the ground 1300 degrees, but no, simple office fires wouldn't do that.

The fires were not hot enough to melt or even weaken that much steel, especially over such a short time, and if the "severe" structural damage wasn't enough to bring them down immediately, it wouldn't be enough to bring them down an hour later. It's a paradox, a conundrum.

Yes. As stated before, the hollow tube of the fuselage was 17 feet in diameter.

The hole is twice that size.
You have clearly made up your mind about 9-11, and refuse to be swayed by any facts, evidence, or science.

Its really a waste of time for anyone here to try to convince you otherwise, as you have a deep emotional connection to your views on these matters.
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Old 16th February 2013, 09:10 PM   #508
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Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis
Yankee451, I take it I offer to accelerate some foam padding to 600mph you will have no problem letting your body be hit by it? After all your body is denser.

Originally Posted by threadworm View Post
or go paintballing - those soft squishy pellets are obviously harmless.
Owww! Those damn things hurt! They leave black-and-blue marks! How is this possible?
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Old 16th February 2013, 09:21 PM   #509
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
They took themselves seriously enough to make a museum exhibit about it; that's a bit more than hyperbole. Dozens of news paper articles, endless comments on the news about the hotspots, NASA's images of the ground 1300 degrees, but no, simple office fires wouldn't do that.
...

Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
The fires were not hot enough to melt or even weaken that much steel, especially over such a short time, and if the "severe" structural damage wasn't enough to bring them down immediately, it wouldn't be enough to bring them down an hour later. It's a paradox, a conundrum.
Evidently your missiles weren't enough to initiate an immediate collapse either. What does that leave us with, Steve?

Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Yes. As stated before, the hollow tube of the fuselage was 17 feet in diameter.

The hole is twice that size.
So you'd expect a similar sized impact hole?
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Old 16th February 2013, 10:25 PM   #510
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
You are very willing to forgive people who began rumors that resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people.
If I had evidence I would not be so forgiving.

Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
The reason the molten steel lie is significant is because it isn't just an isolated indiscretion.
How is it an indiscretion?

Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
When FEMA, NASA, the USGS, the FDNY and the NYPD as well as dozens of media outlets AND the ironically-named 9/11 Truth Movement ALL sing the same tune and that tune is a blatant lie, it takes a gigantic leap of faith to keep telling yourself it was all an accident.
And what was this lie regarding the molten steel?
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Old 17th February 2013, 01:56 AM   #511
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Quote:
Later investigation indicated that a Jap suicide plane, probably a Tony Kawasaki Ki-61 carrying three 132 lb. bombs hit the ship on the port side at the water line in the vicinity of frame 80. The ship was holed in three places: A seven foot hole in the engine room at the water line caused by the engine and fuselage to which it is believed was attached a bomb which was the first explosion, a ten inch hole in the engine room about 2 feet above the water line caused by a bomb which was later discovered as a dud, and a four foot hole in Compartment A-304-EL a crew's berthing space, caused by a bomb which was the second explosion."
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Old 17th February 2013, 06:58 AM   #512
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Tell me you're not still comparing a warship to the Twin Towers.

Honestly.

You're going for the straw in the hurricane next, right?
And the Google U student still has not grasp the simplest of physics concepts yet.
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Old 17th February 2013, 01:58 PM   #513
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
No.
Why not? an airliner is bigger than a Japanese fighter so if the Tower was built like a warship the aircraft would have got through.

So, if the aircraft hit a tower built from thinner steel and also not a continuous surface it would also have gone through.
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Old 17th February 2013, 02:09 PM   #514
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
They claimed there were rivers of the stuff. Like a foundry. Like a volcano.

Didn't happen.

Like your imaginary missiles?
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Old 17th February 2013, 02:10 PM   #515
yankee451
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Originally Posted by threadworm View Post

Later investigation indicated that a Jap suicide plane, probably a Tony Kawasaki Ki-61 carrying three 132 lb. bombs hit the ship on the port side at the water line in the vicinity of frame 80. The ship was holed in three places: A seven foot hole in the engine room at the water line caused by the engine and fuselage to which it is believed was attached a bomb which was the first explosion, a ten inch hole in the engine room about 2 feet above the water line caused by a bomb which was later discovered as a dud, and a four foot hole in Compartment A-304-EL a crew's berthing space, caused by a bomb which was the second explosion."
Bombs focus their momentum and mass at a small point of impact, which is why the wings bounced off but the bombs penetrated. Even the dud.
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Old 18th February 2013, 02:18 AM   #516
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Tell me you're not still comparing a warship to the Twin Towers.

Honestly.

You're going for the straw in the hurricane next, right?
Did you know that you can blow a man's brains out or puncture his liver with a blank round?
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Old 18th February 2013, 08:53 AM   #517
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Originally Posted by leftysergeant View Post
Did you know that you can blow a man's brains out or puncture his liver with a blank round?

Friday October 12th, 1984
Jon-Erik Hexum died on the set of the CBS television series "COVER UP".

The show was being filmed at the Twentieth Century Fox studios lot in Century City, when he 'accidentally' shot himself. The character he was playing was a weapons expert whose cover was that of a fashion show photographer.

During a scene where he is lying in bed, in between takes, he was playing around with a .44 Magnum revolver that was on-set for use as a blank-firing weapon. Shortly after 5:15 p.m. he put the pistol (according to witnesses, it was loaded with three empty cartridges and two blanks) up to his right temple. As he pulled the trigger he smiled, and supposedly said, "Let's see if I got myself with this one." He was apparently unaware that at close range, a blank can cause great damage. The explosion drove a quarter-sized piece of his skull far into his brain. The paper wadding of the straight-walled blank cartridge went straight into his temple and forced a bone chip to lodge in his brain.
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Old 18th February 2013, 12:37 PM   #518
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Tell me you're not still comparing a warship to the Twin Towers.

Honestly.

You're going for the straw in the hurricane next, right?
Straw? You found a silly version of why, and now you are stuck with the straw?

It is physics, you don' do physics so the first silly explanation you find, you jump on it and fail. Like the melted concrete, you fall for the straw can't do it, making up your own version of physics.

http://janssenkwch.blogspot.com/2010_04_01_archive.html

You would not believe what tornadoes do, you will not understand what a plane can do. E=1/2mv2 is not being used by 911 truth, and you. Why are your fantasies banned by most of 911 truth?
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Old 18th February 2013, 06:07 PM   #519
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Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Tell me you're not still comparing a warship to the Twin Towers.

Honestly.

You're going for the straw in the hurricane next, right?
Oh, look, a non-response that tries to hand-wave away every point someone made without elaboration.

Surprise, shock.
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Old 18th February 2013, 07:28 PM   #520
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Originally Posted by 000063 View Post
Oh, look, a non-response that tries to hand-wave away every point someone made without elaboration.

Surprise, shock.
No!
lol
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