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Old 21st June 2014, 04:30 PM   #1
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Skeptic-based Bigfoot documentary?

I've been passively involved with Bigfootery for a few years now as a skeptic. Quite frankly the whole sub-culture is fascinating and there's a lot of mythos surrounding the non-existent creature.

I'm a budding filmmaker based in Vermont (if the name didn't clue you in), and I've been giving some thought to developing a small documentary on Bigfoot in New England. My brother, an artist in New York, has been involved in the New York Bigfoot scene for a while. He essentially draws sketches of what people describe, and it seems that there's a strong "presence" in the Whitehall region of New York.

One thing I find fascinating is the ability of "researchers" to ascribe personality details and lifestyle habits of said fictional creature. We've never found a body or even a live one, but that doesn't stop the die-hards. Sure, we can attribute personalities and histories to fictional characters like Batman and even dragons, but the difference is that (mostly) everyone agrees that neither actually exist.

My idea is fairly simple: Interview Bigfoot researchers and witnesses and compile a documentary based around that, with minimal rehashing of old, tired arguments. No derision of witnesses or making fun of them, just factual information. I admit that I'm biased about the existence of the creature, but I would find it fascinating to get first-hand accounts, without the spin or color of a vested interest involved.

What do ya'll think?
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Old 21st June 2014, 05:30 PM   #2
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It sounds like an episode of Morgan Spurlock's "Inside Man." I mean this in a good way, because the series is informative without being judgmental. The episode on UFOlogy appears similar to what you describe.
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Old 21st June 2014, 06:37 PM   #3
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It isn't really clear what you want to do. On the one hand you want it to be "skeptical", which by default makes proponents look like idiots if it really is skeptical - because that would demonstrate how the entire history is based upon very poor hoaxing and dishonest portrayals of native legends.

You have over four centuries of European Trading/Settlement in New England and centuries before that with native peoples having no evidence of bigfoot. The Algonquian people would have told them of it and golly - Harvard was founded in 1636 and has yet to take note of what would be the greatest find of history in almost four hundred years.

"Skeptical" in these kinds of documentaries the last 50 years means you ask an inane question like "what does bigfoot do in the winter". And when they answer that bigfoot migrates to Mexico you ask no follow-up question.

So what do you mean by "skeptical"?
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Old 21st June 2014, 06:55 PM   #4
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By "skeptical" I mean not believing every little thing someone says - in other pro-Bigfoot documentaries, the narrator/host never questions what is said, and sometimes makes illogical judgments or extrapolations based on poor evidence (something along the line of "Well, if Bigfoot was here, then that must mean he was knocking/looking for food/scouting for an interdimensional portal"). Asking follow-up questions would be an important part of the process. I'm mostly interested in interviewing witnesses, not so much "professional" Bigfooters (mostly because I doubt they'd give me the time of day), but I'd love to get as much material as possible.

My intention is not to use unethical and dishonest editing techniques to make someone look like an idiot - if a participant looks like an idiot, then that's their doing, not mine. All of the raw footage would be available for purview, at any rate.

Believers interviewing people tend to use leading questions to get a particular answer out of a witness. I want to use fact-finding questions, but also leave room for the witness to tell their story and version of events. That doesn't mean I have to believe every word they say, or ask leading questions.

I personally don't believe it exists, but I'd love to hear from other people as to why they think it does, and hear about their experiences.
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A question is asked of a scientist and a woo peddler: "Why does this do that?"
The scientist responds, "I don't know, let's find out," and begins observing.
The woo peddler responds, "It must be mystical in nature," and declares victory.
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Old 21st June 2014, 07:51 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Vermonter View Post
I personally don't believe it exists, but I'd love to hear from other people as to why they think it does, and hear about their experiences.
So it's fantasy you want? Why not interview some young schoolkids? They can make up stories better than adults.
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Old 21st June 2014, 08:35 PM   #6
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One of your challenges will be figuring out if the 'believers' are really believers, scammers/money makers (pun intended), or poor saps who pretend to believe in bigfoot so they can make friends among the other 'believers'.

I think most of them fall into the last category, while others believe most of them are scammers and hoaxers.
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Old 21st June 2014, 08:37 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Vermonter View Post
By "skeptical" I mean not believing every little thing someone says - in other pro-Bigfoot documentaries, the narrator/host never questions what is said, and sometimes makes illogical judgments or extrapolations based on poor evidence (something along the line of "Well, if Bigfoot was here, then that must mean he was knocking/looking for food/scouting for an interdimensional portal"). Asking follow-up questions would be an important part of the process. I'm mostly interested in interviewing witnesses, not so much "professional" Bigfooters (mostly because I doubt they'd give me the time of day), but I'd love to get as much material as possible.

My intention is not to use unethical and dishonest editing techniques to make someone look like an idiot - if a participant looks like an idiot, then that's their doing, not mine. All of the raw footage would be available for purview, at any rate.

Believers interviewing people tend to use leading questions to get a particular answer out of a witness. I want to use fact-finding questions, but also leave room for the witness to tell their story and version of events. That doesn't mean I have to believe every word they say, or ask leading questions.

I personally don't believe it exists, but I'd love to hear from other people as to why they think it does, and hear about their experiences.
Look through the other threads on this page. You will find the example of someone who did just that and when he actually asked challenging questions of the witnesses, not one of them stuck with their story and admitted they made it up.

I've been interviewed a number of times for both the news and television shows - Ice Cold Killers most recently and it covered the same things I was interviewed for on City Confidential. The producers call you up or email and tell you what kind of show they are doing, ask if you consent to be interviewed, and in so doing you get a pretty good idea about what they are up to. I know everyone else they contacted for both those programs and what their reasons were for either consenting or refusing consent to be interviewed.

You are going to have the same issue. If you are honest and tell them you are a skeptic who does not believe in bigfoot, will go to the site of their alleged sighting, and ask investigative questions... you will lose a lot of witnesses, and this is actually an important point to your documentary if it is to be factual.

On the other hand, you can lie, at the very least a lie by omission, and pump people up in thinking there will be the kinds of questions we always see on these documentaries, which anyone making up a story would have no fear of. But then what do you do when they point out a place they supposedly saw bigfoot and a hundred feet away in every direction is a shopping mall, gas station, school, etc.? What you are going to find is these stories are incredibly lame. Of course they are - there is no bigfoot.


You would benefit a great deal by reading some of the threads here, like on alternate reality gaming. Any kind of research a person does, if they are serious, begins by looking into what others have discovered.

One of the reasons for that is when people tell you their belief is based upon the Patterson-Gimlin film then an obvious question is to ask what they think now that Greg Long interviewed the man wearing the suit and the original manufacturer of that suit. Etc.
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Old 21st June 2014, 09:45 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Sherman Bay View Post
So it's fantasy you want? Why not interview some young schoolkids? They can make up stories better than adults.
Nah, I have D&D for fantasy.
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Old 21st June 2014, 09:49 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by GT/CS View Post
One of your challenges will be figuring out if the 'believers' are really believers, scammers/money makers (pun intended), or poor saps who pretend to believe in bigfoot so they can make friends among the other 'believers'.

I think most of them fall into the last category, while others believe most of them are scammers and hoaxers.
That's my hypothesis as well. For the most part it seems to be a collection of well-meaning individuals who want to share stories and be part of the group, and then mixed in with that are the True Believers, and then the scammers duping both of those (and each other). The documentary wouldn't attempt to label anyone - I wouldn't want to get sued for slander or defamation of character.

I may delve into some of the history of Bigfoot hoaxes, however. Still working out the flow of how I'd run this.
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A question is asked of a scientist and a woo peddler: "Why does this do that?"
The scientist responds, "I don't know, let's find out," and begins observing.
The woo peddler responds, "It must be mystical in nature," and declares victory.
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Old 21st June 2014, 10:00 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by AlaskaBushPilot View Post
Look through the other threads on this page. You will find the example of someone who did just that and when he actually asked challenging questions of the witnesses, not one of them stuck with their story and admitted they made it up.

I've been interviewed a number of times for both the news and television shows - Ice Cold Killers most recently and it covered the same things I was interviewed for on City Confidential. The producers call you up or email and tell you what kind of show they are doing, ask if you consent to be interviewed, and in so doing you get a pretty good idea about what they are up to. I know everyone else they contacted for both those programs and what their reasons were for either consenting or refusing consent to be interviewed.

You are going to have the same issue. If you are honest and tell them you are a skeptic who does not believe in bigfoot, will go to the site of their alleged sighting, and ask investigative questions... you will lose a lot of witnesses, and this is actually an important point to your documentary if it is to be factual.

On the other hand, you can lie, at the very least a lie by omission, and pump people up in thinking there will be the kinds of questions we always see on these documentaries, which anyone making up a story would have no fear of. But then what do you do when they point out a place they supposedly saw bigfoot and a hundred feet away in every direction is a shopping mall, gas station, school, etc.? What you are going to find is these stories are incredibly lame. Of course they are - there is no bigfoot.


You would benefit a great deal by reading some of the threads here, like on alternate reality gaming. Any kind of research a person does, if they are serious, begins by looking into what others have discovered.

One of the reasons for that is when people tell you their belief is based upon the Patterson-Gimlin film then an obvious question is to ask what they think now that Greg Long interviewed the man wearing the suit and the original manufacturer of that suit. Etc.
I'll have to go back and look for the thread you mentioned - I'm interested in seeing how that played out. Once I develop the documentary some more and decide on the flow and questions, I can start reaching out to people to ask if they wish to be interviewed. However, you bring up a lot of good points, which is why I wanted to post this in the first place.

It will be a huge challenge to represent myself and the documentary honestly, while still attracting witnesses and not scaring any off. This is a fairly large project even for a regional story, so as you said I'd spend a lot of time researching and coming up with effective questions and find leads on contacting people. Having that kind of material on-hand during interviews would be interesting, and if nothing else, being armed with as much knowledge as possible would allow me to be a more effective interviewer.

I greatly appreciate the suggestions and concerns; it's important to get a feel for how it would be received, and I want to produce a quality documentary. It's given me a lot to consider and the gears are already turning.
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The woo peddler responds, "It must be mystical in nature," and declares victory.
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Old 22nd June 2014, 12:47 PM   #11
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The most interesting Bigfoot documentaries are about the people and how they incorporate belief into their lives.

It's actually REALLY BORING to hear more eyewitness stories. They are useless.
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Old 22nd June 2014, 04:12 PM   #12
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When you're ready, I've got a sweet bigfoot song that should play over your credits. I offered this song to JREF member Kitakaze several years ago for a documentary he had been planning, but it looks like that one ain't gonna happen.
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Old 22nd June 2014, 07:00 PM   #13
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If you want to see examples of bigfoot documentaries that focus on the personalities, I recommend these:

Not Your Typical Bigfoot Movie (2008) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1185384/


The Bigfoot Hunter: Still Searching (2011) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2523584/

Shooting Bigfoot (2013) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2894158/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1
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Old 22nd June 2014, 09:05 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by AlaskaBushPilot View Post
...I was interviewed for on City Confidential...
I genuinely loved, as in wanting to marry, that show. Especially (if not specifically) the episodes with Paul Winfield as narrator. It was excellent true story telling and always worth watching. I'm impressed.
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Old 23rd June 2014, 10:49 AM   #15
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I thought both shows did well in terms of accurate representations because they did their homework before arriving and really were interested in the truth. They could have chosen to interview people promoting a government conspiracy theory and sensationalized it, but what they did instead was put that to bed decisively.

One of the things I hate about faux "investigative" or "documentary" shows is posing these false dilemmas... some say bigfoot inhabits the vast wilderness (of suburban Detroit) and some say it is not likely. We spent a whole year producing this show and were incapable of deciding... But City Confidential wanted accuracy.
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Old 23rd June 2014, 11:25 AM   #16
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Actually, Bigfoot lives in the abandoned building of Detroit itself.
Quote:
“The lack of urban expansion in the city due to a poor economy could mean that some species have found their way back into their old habitat. It is also possible that the lots of empty houses could work as an incentive for wild animals seeking shelter. As a result, these witnesses could easily misidentify the native species of the area,” said Lorenzo Martinez, animal behaviorist and teacher at a Spanish university.
“No no, that was not a dog or a bear. That was either some sick man dressed up for fun or a freaking monkey with a man’s face, like a Bigfoot. Whatever you wanna believe, up to you. That’s all I have to say,” said Brown.
http://cryptozoologynews.com/bigfoot...t-ruins-house/
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Old 24th June 2014, 10:10 AM   #17
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It sounds like an interesting idea for a documentary - do you have any previous work up on YouTube or something?
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Old 25th June 2014, 11:37 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Vermonter View Post
I've been passively involved with Bigfootery for a few years now as a skeptic. Quite frankly the whole sub-culture is fascinating and there's a lot of mythos surrounding the non-existent creature.

I'm a budding filmmaker based in Vermont (if the name didn't clue you in), and I've been giving some thought to developing a small documentary on Bigfoot in New England. My brother, an artist in New York, has been involved in the New York Bigfoot scene for a while. He essentially draws sketches of what people describe, and it seems that there's a strong "presence" in the Whitehall region of New York.

One thing I find fascinating is the ability of "researchers" to ascribe personality details and lifestyle habits of said fictional creature. We've never found a body or even a live one, but that doesn't stop the die-hards. Sure, we can attribute personalities and histories to fictional characters like Batman and even dragons, but the difference is that (mostly) everyone agrees that neither actually exist.

My idea is fairly simple: Interview Bigfoot researchers and witnesses and compile a documentary based around that, with minimal rehashing of old, tired arguments. No derision of witnesses or making fun of them, just factual information. I admit that I'm biased about the existence of the creature, but I would find it fascinating to get first-hand accounts, without the spin or color of a vested interest involved.

What do ya'll think?
Just in case you are still interested, there used to be a TV show called Critical Eye which took a good look at various paranormal things, including Bigfoot.

Anyway, one of the things they did was to interview several Bigfoot witnesses and showed how the description of Bigfoot changed considerably over time. And, of course, if Bigfoot was real, then one would expect the descriptions to be much more consistent.

Therefore, I suggest that you look for this show before starting your own.

Thanks.
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Old 27th June 2014, 02:59 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
Just in case you are still interested, there used to be a TV show called Critical Eye which took a good look at various paranormal things, including Bigfoot.

Anyway, one of the things they did was to interview several Bigfoot witnesses and showed how the description of Bigfoot changed considerably over time. And, of course, if Bigfoot was real, then one would expect the descriptions to be much more consistent.

Therefore, I suggest that you look for this show before starting your own.

Thanks.
Since there are many different tribes of bigfoot the inconsistency is actually proof of the observations.

(how to make up a fact to explain away a problem)
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Old 27th June 2014, 06:28 AM   #20
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Channel 4 (UK) Bigfoot Files was a really good skeptical 3 part documentary on all things Bigfoot. You can watch all of the three episodes here (it may be UK only).
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Old 27th June 2014, 11:45 AM   #21
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I photographed my very own ‘Bigfoot’ in some woods around Glasgow, Scotland in November last year. Glaswegian’s call it the Weeyin.
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Old 3rd July 2014, 10:02 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by AlaskaBushPilot View Post
Look through the other threads on this page. You will find the example of someone who did just that and when he actually asked challenging questions of the witnesses, not one of them stuck with their story and admitted they made it up.

I've been interviewed a number of times for both the news and television shows - Ice Cold Killers most recently and it covered the same things I was interviewed for on City Confidential. The producers call you up or email and tell you what kind of show they are doing, ask if you consent to be interviewed, and in so doing you get a pretty good idea about what they are up to. I know everyone else they contacted for both those programs and what their reasons were for either consenting or refusing consent to be interviewed.

You are going to have the same issue. If you are honest and tell them you are a skeptic who does not believe in bigfoot, will go to the site of their alleged sighting, and ask investigative questions... you will lose a lot of witnesses, and this is actually an important point to your documentary if it is to be factual.

On the other hand, you can lie, at the very least a lie by omission, and pump people up in thinking there will be the kinds of questions we always see on these documentaries, which anyone making up a story would have no fear of. But then what do you do when they point out a place they supposedly saw bigfoot and a hundred feet away in every direction is a shopping mall, gas station, school, etc.? What you are going to find is these stories are incredibly lame. Of course they are - there is no bigfoot.


You would benefit a great deal by reading some of the threads here, like on alternate reality gaming. Any kind of research a person does, if they are serious, begins by looking into what others have discovered.

One of the reasons for that is when people tell you their belief is based upon the Patterson-Gimlin film then an obvious question is to ask what they think now that Greg Long interviewed the man wearing the suit and the original manufacturer of that suit. Etc.






That's pretty cool. Did your interviews make it to the aired episode(s)?

Last edited by dmaker; 3rd July 2014 at 10:05 AM.
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Old 3rd July 2014, 10:16 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
Just in case you are still interested, there used to be a TV show called Critical Eye which took a good look at various paranormal things, including Bigfoot.

Anyway, one of the things they did was to interview several Bigfoot witnesses and showed how the description of Bigfoot changed considerably over time. And, of course, if Bigfoot was real, then one would expect the descriptions to be much more consistent.
Some people would say the inconsistency proves there is no Bigfoot.

Others would say that it proves there are several kinds of Bigfoots, one for each kind of description.

It works the same way with aliens. They used to be lizard-like, then bug-like, now grey-like with big eyes.
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Old 9th July 2014, 06:13 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by dmaker View Post
That's pretty cool. Did your interviews make it to the aired episode(s)?
Oh yes. Both shows.

I did a couple things for City Confidential they said were too "over the top" - like pulling a .44 mag out of the holster, twirling it, and shooting a can. It took a lot of practice to do that with a single-action. You have to pull the hammer back as it spins.

One thing I guess in retrospect is probably good they didn't put in there was that I got approached by a Hell's Angel offering to take out the perp for $5K. It was an attractive offer on account of its economy but not exactly the kind of thing you want to be drawing a lot of attention to on national TV with your known identity.
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Old 10th July 2014, 05:40 AM   #25
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Is this the City Confidential about the Fairbanks murder in season 1?
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Old 11th July 2014, 07:16 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by John Nowak View Post
It sounds like an interesting idea for a documentary - do you have any previous work up on YouTube or something?
I'm just getting started in the film scene. I have a YouTube channel, and I've done audio work on a few short films.
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Old 11th July 2014, 07:19 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
Just in case you are still interested, there used to be a TV show called Critical Eye which took a good look at various paranormal things, including Bigfoot.

Anyway, one of the things they did was to interview several Bigfoot witnesses and showed how the description of Bigfoot changed considerably over time. And, of course, if Bigfoot was real, then one would expect the descriptions to be much more consistent.

Therefore, I suggest that you look for this show before starting your own.

Thanks.
Thanks for giving me the show name - I'll check it out and see how it is. I'm still mulling over various options for what I can do. My primary motivations are to contribute to the skeptic community and film community by producing something useful.
__________________
A question is asked of a scientist and a woo peddler: "Why does this do that?"
The scientist responds, "I don't know, let's find out," and begins observing.
The woo peddler responds, "It must be mystical in nature," and declares victory.
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Old 12th July 2014, 09:18 PM   #28
AlaskaBushPilot
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 4,314
Yes, Drewbot. That's the right city. I don't know what season, as I don't watch enough TV to know.
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Old 14th July 2014, 12:45 PM   #29
John Nowak
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Join Date: May 2014
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 1,806
Originally Posted by Vermonter View Post
I'm just getting started in the film scene. I have a YouTube channel, and I've done audio work on a few short films.
Not a bad start -- I've subscribed.
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