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Old 11th June 2015, 07:37 AM   #41
sylvan8798
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
I don't think they have a point at all. They can always simply get a church wedding at some church that forbids gay marriage, and then they would have the holy matrimony they seek. They don't have to divorce to do that. Civil marriage was never holy matrimony anyway. If you're going to bring up the Catholic issue of how they view divorce, you also need to remember that they never recognized civil marriage as "holy matrimony" either, despite the frequent agitation of Catholic spokespeople against gay civil marriage.

When new laws allow gay couples to adopt, are these bozos going to shoot their children?
And fewer bozos in the next generation would be a bad thing?

Maybe they are hoping for a "Star-bellied Sneetches" type thing? Everyone who is now married will get divorced and invent a new name for their relationship and exclude gays from THAT thing...
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Old 11th June 2015, 08:30 AM   #42
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Same Sex Couple Threaten Not To Give A **** If Other Couple Divorces
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Old 11th June 2015, 08:39 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
Haha, I feel much better about this now:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...&postcount=479

Because this:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...3&postcount=29

I guess we both need to be more explicit when posting comical links
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Old 11th June 2015, 08:56 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by bit_pattern View Post
Haha, I feel much better about this now:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...&postcount=479

Because this:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...3&postcount=29

I guess we both need to be more explicit when posting comical links
Derp.
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Old 11th June 2015, 09:01 AM   #45
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Old 11th June 2015, 09:06 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by bit_pattern View Post
Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
Links fixed for you so that the auto-censored part of it won't make any trouble for other people clicking them.
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Old 11th June 2015, 10:01 AM   #47
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Nick Jensen and his wife Sarah believe widening the definition of marriage to include same-sex couples threatens the sacred nature of the union and leaves the door open to polygamy.
I've always wondered why same-sex marriage leads to polygamy, but opposite-sex marriage does not. Special pleading?
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Old 11th June 2015, 10:10 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Dessi View Post
I've always wondered why same-sex marriage leads to polygamy, but opposite-sex marriage does not. Special pleading?
I don't think it's about marriage per se, but about creating a precedent by officially approving a deviation from the norm. They're afraid that when they're forced to give gay people equal rights, other groups will demand their rights too, and monogamous heterosexual marriage will no longer be the (only) norm. And being forced to question your own identity scares people, so they'd rather keep the status quo and avoid that.
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Old 11th June 2015, 10:15 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by lonepinealex View Post
Or have / adopt children?

Or eat at restaurants? Or shop a stores? Or eat food and breathe air? Or... *gasp* ...live?

Originally Posted by Joe Random View Post
Heavily religious Christians literally believe that someone else died for their sins...

And was then brought back to life, which you'd think kind of undermines the significance of the sacrifice. But that's for another subforum.
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Old 11th June 2015, 10:47 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Duffy Moon View Post
It's as if Stella Artois threatened to stop brewing lager after Barbican alcohol-free lager became available.

"We are not prejudiced against alcohol-free drinks, although obviously we don't agree with them. But to call this drink 'lager' undermines the sanctity of true lager" said an imaginary spokesperson.

I wonder if the couple are hoping that the entire equal-marriage movement in Australia will come to a halt as a result of their declaration?

"Sorry mates, it's all over. We can't let our selfish desire for freedom and equality affect this poor couple. Stick the placards in the bin on the way out. Damn, we were so close."
I would have no issue it Stella stopped brewing right now.

It would be a stupid decision, but since I don't drink lagers it affects me not a jot. Much the same way that SSM doesn't affect me and I don't care of same sex people choose to marry or not - I won't stop people from drinking lager and I won't stop adults from getting married.
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Old 11th June 2015, 02:07 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Dancing David View Post
If that gay couple buys a house I am going to burn down my house.
lol
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Old 11th June 2015, 02:14 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd View Post
And was then brought back to life, which you'd think kind of undermines the significance of the sacrifice.
But he came back different: moody, whining all the time, very complainy and a pain to be around. Post-Resurrection Jesus was Season Six Buffy.
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Old 11th June 2015, 02:22 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Bodies are evidence.
Among perps who eventually get caught, yes.

Just sayin'.
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Old 11th June 2015, 02:40 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd View Post
And was then brought back to life, which you'd think kind of undermines the significance of the sacrifice.
Must have been a tough 6 hours
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Old 11th June 2015, 02:45 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Must have been a tough 6 hours
Not so bad... they left a deck of cards with him.
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Old 11th June 2015, 03:57 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Dessi View Post
I've always wondered why same-sex marriage leads to polygamy, but opposite-sex marriage does not. Special pleading?
Redefinition is the usual excuse made. Once you "redefine" marriage, all bets are off, especially if you first redefine redefinition. It does not even have to be marriage. During the civil union debate here in Vermont there were people convinced that the consequence of civil unions would be that people could marry their cats. Mee-owch!

That's the long answer. The short answer is "becaaaauuuuse!"
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Old 11th June 2015, 05:08 PM   #57
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Since my state redefined marriage a couple of years ago, I decided I should plural marriage our cats for tax purposes. They said no.
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Old 11th June 2015, 05:33 PM   #58
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Sounds like they're looking for an excuse, to me.
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Old 11th June 2015, 05:56 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Rasmus View Post
I do think they have a point: We believe that marriage is X, Y and Z. If this no longer is true for the state sanctioned marriage that we entered into, we would like out."

It is not neccesarily against their religion - they seem to intend to kiss the legal, state sanctioned marriage goodbye, but remain married to each other in the eyes of their God. (Kinda how like any other legal divorce doesn't make the Catholic church consider your marriage to no longer be valid, allow you to re-marry, etc.)

Of course, that doesn't mean any sane person should give a ****...
Much the same logic that most polygamists use. It's not a real marriage in the eyes of the state, after all.
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Old 11th June 2015, 05:59 PM   #60
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"to have and to hold, from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, until death do us part.............................................. ... Or those god darn gay people can get married and then your a gonner"
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Old 11th June 2015, 06:01 PM   #61
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There is a dark side to this story.

An Open Response from Nick Jensen’s brother

Quote:
My name is Soren Jensen and I strongly support Marriage Equality. My brother does not.

You may have been made aware in the last 24 hours of my brother, Nick Jensen, and his statement that he will seek a divorce if homosexuals are allowed to marry. He has stated a very strong position against marriage equality. While I disagree strongly with him it is also his right to do so.

Since then I have seen a passionate yet vicious response from the Internet, my family and name insulted, lied about, speculation about his marriage and seen him called every name under the sun. He has chosen to make his marital status a personal target, so this is probably not unexpected. But know thy enemy and judge and attack the argument, not the man.

...

I’m sad at how this debate can deteriorate, blame on both sides. Clearly each side is passionate and fervent in their reasoning. And each should appreciate there are good people on both sides who have very deep beliefs. But I’m disappointed by the belittling, name-calling and stunts from both sides. We can be better.

I disapprove of what my brother has said, but I will defend to the death his right to say it. And your right to respond. But let’s do so in a way that is constructive.

...

So I invite you if you have seen this article and are affected by it, not to sling insults on social media, but to get proactive. Write to your MP’s and representatives. Tell them that the church should not be allowed to dictate and has no claim on the definition of marriage in the modern age. That our marriage act is currently discriminatory to those citizens who love each other and want this recognized as equals to all others. If you are Christian and you do not share the beliefs of my brother then write to the ACL and tell them they do not speak for you. If you support his reasoning, also write to these same people and say that. You are entitled for your voice to be heard, just as my brother is. But equality is the stronger argument. The marriage equality movement leads with tolerance, understanding, compassion, inclusion and love, which should also be the role the Church is playing. Harness the energy this viral response has created and propel it towards positive change.

...

I love and respect you brother. You speak from your truth and I speak from mine.

And on this issue I believe you are wrong.
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Last edited by arthwollipot; 11th June 2015 at 06:04 PM. Reason: Replaced link with original
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Old 11th June 2015, 06:03 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Nicely written and solidly done.
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Old 11th June 2015, 06:15 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
There is a dark side to this story.

An Open Response from Nick Jensen’s brother
Good dude.

Very well said.
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Old 11th June 2015, 06:29 PM   #64
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Nicely stated. That person is in an unenviably difficult position.
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Old 12th June 2015, 05:08 AM   #65
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This couple is in Australia? What are the laws governing divorce there? I think I saw something about Australia having some pretty stringent rules that would basically make it not possible for this couple to get divorced without perjuring themselves. You can't have lived together in twelve months, you have to say that the marriage is completely severed, etc. This guy, Nick, has stated that they would continue to live together, attempt to have children together, etc. If the laws are what I'm thinking, there's really no way they'll be able to actually get divorced... ammiright?
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Old 12th June 2015, 05:19 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by ddt View Post
Started by the same OP. Wonder how many he created?
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Old 12th June 2015, 05:36 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Sherman Bay View Post
Started by the same OP. Wonder how many he created?
That's not how merged threads work.
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Old 12th June 2015, 09:57 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
There is a dark side to this story.

An Open Response from Nick Jensen’s brother
I feel for Soren's predicament. It must not be easy to, on the one hand, love your brother and on the other hand, see him pull such a stupid stunt and see it backfire enormously. Overall, a well-written piece, but I have a couple of criticisms.
Quote:
But sadly most of the comments have been vicious lies, insulting attacks, accusations and ridicule. Perhaps this is deserved. But the level of hate and nastiness, in my mind, is the equivalent of the extremists yelling “Fags must die”. I have read the attacks on him, and his children and shame on those who attacked my niece and nephews and include them in this argument.
I haven't seen the threats etc., but I'll take his word for it; it's par for the course for the internet, unfortunately. Of course, threats of violence on Nick, his wife and especially on his children must not be done and should be wholeheartedly condemned. On the other hand, Nick and his wife deserve all ridicule there is for his idiotic stunt. For instance, this piece:
Quote:
An Australian couple has said they will kill their own children if the Australian courts recognise the rights of gay couple to adopt.

Nick and Sarah Jensen have taken the dramatic stance after seeing what they call the “sever erosion of Christian principles in modern society.”
As to the heart of Nick's argument, Soren lists this:
Quote:
Nick has used his democratic right of free speech to state his point, and to publicly say that if there is a change in the legislation from the government on marriage he considers this a breach of contract and his marriage agreement with the state should be annulled.
Of course, this whole argument is nonsense, and Soren should do better to counter that argument. Marriage is not a contract, in the first place; but if you want to continue with the analogy, never ever has the State promised in its side of the "contract" never to change the rules of who could get married. Would Nick's reaction be the same if the State lowered the age of marriage from 18 to 16, to just name an example? I go out on a limb and say no. And in no way, shape or form does the State alter its end of the marriage "contract" obligations towards Nick and his wife. Again, I go out on a limb and venture that Nick would not make such a protest if the State would alter the rules for child support after divorce, something which would materially affect the terms of his own marriage.

And if you read the comments section, where Soren has also responded to reactions, it becomes clear that Nick in his discussions with his brother has used the canard that marriage is somehow a Christian invention, and that Soren has fallen for that lie.

Lastly, what the Mutha said: Nick's divorce threat is an empty threat. With his open letter, he'll have a really hard time to argue before a judge that his marriage is severed. I think you can argue that someone who makes such an empty threat he cannot enforce is indeed a loony or a religious nut.
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Old 12th June 2015, 10:28 AM   #69
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In thinking about this, I have warmed to the idea that Nick should divorce, and thus loose the civil benefits of legal marriage that he and his family have had. The state may save some money, and he may begin to realize, through his own lose, why gays are requesting equal access to civil marriage. I gather that his wife is on board, and so I only feel sorry for his kids (although in most divorces, I gather that both ex's will be still recognized as legal parents of the kids. For gays never legally married, this legal recognition of parental rights can be much more difficult).
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Old 12th June 2015, 11:57 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by ddt View Post
Lastly, what the Mutha said: Nick's divorce threat is an empty threat. With his open letter, he'll have a really hard time to argue before a judge that his marriage is severed. I think you can argue that someone who makes such an empty threat he cannot enforce is indeed a loony or a religious nut.
I don't know - the argument that "this is not the legal contract we initially entered into, so we don't want it to be recognized anymore" seems rather novel. I'd probably grant the divorce, after pointing out that as a form of protest it seems ineffectual to say the least.
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Old 12th June 2015, 01:34 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by sylvan8798 View Post
I don't know - the argument that "this is not the legal contract we initially entered into, so we don't want it to be recognized anymore" seems rather novel. I'd probably grant the divorce, after pointing out that as a form of protest it seems ineffectual to say the least.
The argument is also inane and totally irrelevant. If the government opens up marriage to gay couples, it changes nothing in the rights and obligations that Nick and his wife have under the law.

Now, if the government would, say, abolish tax breaks for married couples, then he'd have a point that the government does not hold up their end of the bargain they agreed to. Or if the government set up an agency that helps collecting child support after a divorce (such an agency exists nowadays in the Netherlands, and I've not heard anyone protesting that the government broke their contract).

Australia's Family Law Act 1975 is very explicit on the grounds for divorce:. Article 48:
Quote:
48 Divorce

(1) An application under this Act for a divorce order in relation to a marriage shall be based on the ground that the marriage has broken down irretrievably.

(2) Subject to subsection (3), in a proceeding instituted by such an application, the ground shall be held to have been established, and the divorce order shall be made, if, and only if, the court is satisfied that the parties separated and thereafter lived separately and apart for a continuous period of not less than 12 months immediately preceding the date of the filing of the application for the divorce order.

(3) A divorce order shall not be made if the court is satisfied that there is a reasonable likelihood of cohabitation being resumed.
Given that their stated reason for divorce would be this "unholy" SSM marriage, they'd violate para (1), and given that they've even stated they want more children, no judge can be satisfied that para (3) is fulfilled.
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Old 12th June 2015, 01:42 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Dessi View Post
I've always wondered why same-sex marriage leads to polygamy, but opposite-sex marriage does not. Special pleading?
Because deep down they realise that because same-sex sex is so fantastic (well for blokes anyway - I mean what do two women even do??) everyone will want in on it.
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Old 12th June 2015, 02:09 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Because deep down they realise that because same-sex sex is so fantastic (well for blokes anyway - I mean what do two women even do??) everyone will want in on it.
This does appear to be the basis for much of the anti-Gay, ant-SSM rhetoric: we must have laws against it because otherwise young straight children will be recruited into it, straight marriages would fall apart, and the birth rate would drop to zero. Sometimes I am not certain if these groups are not actually advertising gay sex. Why not just restate these arguments into their essence: "Try gay sex and you will never do straight sex again!" Otherwise, why is it such a fearsome thing? (although I suspect that these anti-gay organizations are also worried that God might accidently strike them dead too in a misfire directed at the gays; look at what he did to Louisiana!).
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Old 12th June 2015, 02:51 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
This does appear to be the basis for much of the anti-Gay, ant-SSM rhetoric: we must have laws against it because otherwise young straight children will be recruited into it, straight marriages would fall apart, and the birth rate would drop to zero. Sometimes I am not certain if these groups are not actually advertising gay sex. Why not just restate these arguments into their essence: "Try gay sex and you will never do straight sex again!" Otherwise, why is it such a fearsome thing? (although I suspect that these anti-gay organizations are also worried that God might accidently strike them dead too in a misfire directed at the gays; look at what he did to Louisiana!).

To be fair, terrible things happened when Canada legalized gay marriage:

http://www.somethingpositive.net/sp05162004.shtml
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Old 12th June 2015, 03:46 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by ddt View Post
The argument is also inane and totally irrelevant. If the government opens up marriage to gay couples, it changes nothing in the rights and obligations that Nick and his wife have under the law.

Now, if the government would, say, abolish tax breaks for married couples, then he'd have a point that the government does not hold up their end of the bargain they agreed to. Or if the government set up an agency that helps collecting child support after a divorce (such an agency exists nowadays in the Netherlands, and I've not heard anyone protesting that the government broke their contract).

Australia's Family Law Act 1975 is very explicit on the grounds for divorce:. Article 48:


Given that their stated reason for divorce would be this "unholy" SSM marriage, they'd violate para (1), and given that they've even stated they want more children, no judge can be satisfied that para (3) is fulfilled.
I know this, when they let them ride in the front of the bus I'm walking.

Last edited by tsig; 12th June 2015 at 03:48 PM.
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Old 12th June 2015, 03:47 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Because deep down they realise that because same-sex sex is so fantastic (well for blokes anyway - I mean what do two women even do??) everyone will want in on it.
There are places on the internet...that..you know...you can go to.
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Old 12th June 2015, 03:59 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
To be fair, terrible things happened when Canada legalized gay marriage:

http://www.somethingpositive.net/sp05162004.shtml
Wasn't Canada just trying to escape their boring reputation? In my opinion, it didn't work, although Vancouver and Calgary have potential.
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Old 12th June 2015, 05:48 PM   #78
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Kill their children over gay adoption?

Lol

I take it this person has been relieved of their kids and is in counselling?
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Old 12th June 2015, 06:02 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by Rasmus View Post
I do think they have a point: We believe that marriage is X, Y and Z. If this no longer is true for the state sanctioned marriage that we entered into, we would like out."

It is not neccesarily against their religion - they seem to intend to kiss the legal, state sanctioned marriage goodbye, but remain married to each other in the eyes of their God. (Kinda how like any other legal divorce doesn't make the Catholic church consider your marriage to no longer be valid, allow you to re-marry, etc.)

Of course, that doesn't mean any sane person should give a ****...
You're right. But it does seem to matter to a lot of people here.

Really does it matter what Nick and Sarah do, provided they don't frighten the horses?
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Old 12th June 2015, 06:05 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Kill their children over gay adoption?

Lol

I take it this person has been relieved of their kids and is in counselling?
FYI, that piece was satire.
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