Continuation The Electric Comet Theory Boogaloo (Part 2)

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Sol88 said:
The biggest mystery....Where's the ICE?
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What measurements, to you, would have indicated the presence of ice? The surface being soft? The surface looking like ice? Taking a sample of the surface, putting it in a pressurized environment, and them melting it?
 
ferd burfle said:
The EU proponents have repeatedly confused the two. They don't understand the simplest concepts from 7th grade science and yet they presume to correct PhD astrophysicists, and arrogantly at that..
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Indeed, I've seen studies from the 30's and 40's that showed it could be as hard as 5 - 6 on the Mohs scale at temperatures around -50C - -70C. Steel rates from 5 - 8.5.

EDIT:
Replied to the wrong post there, but you get the drift.
 
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Jrrarglblarg said:
In Monument Valley last week I saw the Giant Sky Bunny. I wanted to point it out to my wife but a whale ate it before she got back.

What are your thoughts on the Giant Sky Bunny Theory?
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Did the whale look anything like this?



Because that would have been really cool.
 
Sol88 said:
Hide your carrots!
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That was my takeaway message as well.


So about these alacrical arcings that kinda sorta look like diffuse vapor sublimating off the comet. One thing I'm seeing is they appear to be concentrating in low spots rather than high spots as usually seen in electrical discharges. How is this explained?
 
Slings and Arrows said:
And have you looked at their pathetic forum recently? They are only getting two or three comments per day; it has turned into a ghost town over at the Thunderdolts Forum.
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That is in one way quite hopeful since it suggests that people who were initially fooled by the Thunderbolts delusions have learned about the real world and abandoned them.
Who knows - maybe they read The ignorance, delusions and lies in the Thunderbolts web site, videos etc. :D!
It might be that they shot themselves in the foot with the latest series of videos about comets. The web site does not seem to make it as clear as the videos that Talbott and Thornhill are neo-Velikovskian cranks.

The results though reveal just how deluded they are and Velikovsky was.
For example they support the Velikovskian delusion that Venus was a comet in recent times with a image of Ankhesenamun (wife of Tutankhamun) wearing a crown. The crown is 2 feathers as in the kingly Two Feathers Crown with the addition of a sun disk and cow horns. A sun disk and horns are the symbols of Hathor (the patron of queens!). The feathers are symbols of the 2 Kingdoms. The crown basically says "I am the queen of all of Egypt".
 
Sol88: Quote mining of a MUPUS presentation (the layer is as hard as snow!)

Sol88 said:
The biggest mystery....Where's the ICE?
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No mystery - that it is a lie that you have been repeating since 16th April 2015, Sol88.
16th April 2015, Sol88: Do not repeat a lie about no ice being found (ice found on Tempel 1 and 67P - including surface ice!
Reality Check said:
The scientific truth is:
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I am more than happy to add the detection of ice under a layer of dust to that list, Sol88.
Philae settles in dust-covered ice
That the ice was harder than the MUPUS hammer was designed to push into is interesting science not Thunderbolts delusions about rock.

ETA: Found a quote mine (lie) from Sol88 when looking up the MUPUS in this thread.
13th February 2015 Sol88: Quote mining of a MUPUS presentation to hide the fact that even snow at low tempertures can be as hard as the layer of ice MUPUS detected!

Was it you, Sol88, or Haig who was deluded enough that they thought that a body heated by the Sun would not heat up all over (including bits that are in shadow)? Your ignorant comment suggests you :jaw-dropp.
On the other hand you or Haig may be mindlessly parroting Thunderbolts delusions as usual.


We detect jets from the shadows of comets often, e.g. probably Wild 2 and definitely Hartley 2 and Tempel 1.
 
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Sol88 said:
Tusenfem, are you saying SPACE PLASMA PHYSICS are a done thing?
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Sol88, are you saying that you are not intelligent enough to know the difference between a comet and an artificial satellite :jaw-dropp!

The plasma environment around a comet is well known, extensively studied and well modeled. This does not mean that there cannot be interesting scientific discoveries.
It means that the Thunderbolts delusions about comets can be identified as delusions, e.g. no detection of electrical discharges = a delusion that there are electrical discharges.

Your idea that there will be no surprises is delusional, Sol88. A basic point about scientific research is to make new surprising discoveries. Scientists want to break current theories and models because that is how they are trained (and how they get famous!).
 
Reality Check said:
A basic point about scientific research is to make new surprising discoveries. Scientists want to break current theories and models because that is how they are trained (and how they get famous!).
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Precisely. That is why science progresses. Unlike the scientifically and mathematically challenged acolytes of EU, who seem to be quite happy following scientific nobodies, because it happens to suit their views at this time.
I've said before, I loved reading Velikovsky and Von Daniken when I was 11 or 12, or heaven forbid, 13. Then I got an education. And grew up.
Who in their right mind believes that cr*p now? Only people who haven't grown up, either intellectually or otherwise.
Again, the Dead Parrot sketch comes to mind, but I must resist.
 
Reality Check said:
No mystery - that it is a lie that you have been repeating since 16th April 2015, Sol88.
16th April 2015, Sol88: Do not repeat a lie about no ice being found (ice found on Tempel 1 and 67P - including surface ice!

I am more than happy to add the detection of ice under a layer of dust to that list, Sol88.
Philae settles in dust-covered ice
That the ice was harder than the MUPUS hammer was designed to push into is interesting science not Thunderbolts delusions about rock.

ETA: Found a quote mine (lie) from Sol88 when looking up the MUPUS in this thread.
13th February 2015 Sol88: Quote mining of a MUPUS presentation to hide the fact that even snow at low tempertures can be as hard as the layer of ice MUPUS detected!

Was it you, Sol88, or Haig who was deluded enough that they thought that a body heated by the Sun would not heat up all over (including bits that are in shadow)? Your ignorant comment suggests you :jaw-dropp.
On the other hand you or Haig may be mindlessly parroting Thunderbolts delusions as usual.


We detect jets from the shadows of comets often, e.g. probably Wild 2 and definitely Hartley 2 and Tempel 1.
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from the link

“If we compare the data with laboratory measurements, we think that the probe encountered a hard surface with strength comparable to that of solid ice,” says Tilman Spohn, principal investigator for MUPUS.
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I think it's rock!!!!


The mainstream have no other plausible explanation under their theory other then ICE :blush:

and Philae was a bit of a failure because
Matthew Cline
Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
The biggest mystery....Where's the ICE?
What measurements, to you, would have indicated the presence of ice? The surface being soft? The surface looking like ice? Taking a sample of the surface, putting it in a pressurized environment, and them melting it?
Click to expand...

Philae should have told us all of that but because of the mainstreams dogma, ie comets are ice with some dust, it completely failed it's mission leaving those in charge to save face and say
“If we compare the data with laboratory measurements, we think that the probe encountered a hard surface with strength comparable to that of solid ice,” says Tilman Spohn, principal investigator for MUPUS.
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! :jaw-dropp



We think?????? Is that science?
 
 
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Ziggurat said:
As opposed to the Veliovskian miracle of planets changing their orbits completely because... well, just because.
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But Mainstream can invoke majik orbital mechanics??? WTF:confused:

Looking for how the mainstream think on the origin of Earths water, turned up this nugget

Possible reasons
Planetary cooling

The cooling down of the primordial world to the point where the outgassed volatile components were held in an atmosphere of sufficient pressure for the stabilization and retention of liquid water.[citation needed]

Extraplanetary sources

Comets, trans-Neptunian objects or water-rich meteoroids (protoplanets) from the outer reaches of the main asteroid belt colliding with the Earth may have brought water to the world's oceans. Measurements of the ratio of the hydrogen isotopes deuterium and protium point to asteroids, since similar percentage impurities in carbon-rich chondrites were found in oceanic water, whereas previous measurement of the isotopes' concentrations in comets and trans-Neptunian objects correspond only slightly to water on the Earth.[1]

Planetesimals heated by the decay of aluminium. This could cause water to rise to the surface.[2] Recent studies suggest that water with similar Deuterium-to-Hydrogen ratio was already available at the time of the Earth's formation, as evidenced in ancient "eucrites" meteorites originating from the asteroid Vesta.[3]

That the Earth's water originated purely from comets is implausible, as a result of measurements of the isotope ratios of hydrogen in the four comets Halley, Hyakutake, Hale-Bopp, and 67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko by researchers such as David Jewitt, as according to this research the ratio of deuterium to protium (D/H ratio) of the comets is approximately double that of oceanic water. What is however unclear is whether these comets are representative of those from the Kuiper Belt. According to A. Morbidelli [4] the largest part of today's water comes from protoplanets formed in the outer asteroid belt that plunged towards the Earth, as indicated by the D/H proportions in carbon-rich chondrites. The water in carbon-rich chondrites point to a similar D/H ratio as oceanic water. Nevertheless, mechanisms have been proposed[5] to suggest that the D/H-ratio of oceanic water may have increased significantly throughout Earth's history. Such a proposal is consistent with the possibility that a significant amount of the water on Earth was already present during the planet's early evolution.

Recent measurements of the chemical composition of Moon rocks suggest that Earth was born with its water already present. Investigating lunar samples carried to Earth by the Apollo 15 and 17 missions found a deuterium-to-hydrogen ratio that matched the isotopic ratio in carbonaceous chondrites. The ratio is also similar to that found in water on Earth. The findings suggest a common source of water for both objects. This supports a theory that Jupiter temporarily migrated into the inner Solar System, destabilizing the orbits of water-rich carbonaceous chondrites. As a result, some of the bodies could have fallen inwards and become part of the raw material for making Earth and its neighbors.[6] The discovery of water vapor out-gassing from Ceres provides related information on water-ice content of the asteroid belt.[7]
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LINK

Whoops, how embarrassment :confused:


Whilst Immanuel Velikovsky is ridiculed???

He arrived at a body of radical inter-disciplinary ideas, which might be summarised as:[citation needed]

Planet Earth has suffered natural catastrophes on a global scale, both before and during humankind's recorded history.
There is evidence for these catastrophes in the geological record (here Velikovsky was advocating Catastrophist ideas as opposed to the prevailing Uniformitarian notions) and archeological record. The extinction of many species had occurred catastrophically, not by gradual Darwinian means.
The catastrophes that occurred within the memory of humankind are recorded in the myths, legends and written history of all ancient cultures and civilisations. Velikovsky pointed to alleged concordances in the accounts of many cultures, and proposed that they referred to the same real events. For instance, the memory of a flood is recorded in the Hebrew Bible, in the Greek legend of Deucalion, and in the Manu legend of India. Velikovsky put forward the psychoanalytic idea of "Cultural Amnesia" as a mechanism whereby these literal records came to be regarded as mere myths and legends.
The causes of these natural catastrophes were close encounters between the Earth and other bodies within the solar system — not least what are now the planets Saturn, Jupiter, Venus, and Mars, these bodies having moved upon different orbits within human memory.
To explain the fact that these changes to the configuration of the solar system violate several well-understood laws of physics, Velikovsky invented a role for electromagnetic forces in counteracting gravity and orbital mechanics.
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So which is it mainstream??
 
Sol88 said:
from the link



I think it's rock!!!!


The mainstream have no other plausible explanation under their theory other then ICE :blush:

and Philae was a bit of a failure because

Philae should have told us all of that but because of the mainstreams dogma, ie comets are ice with some dust, it completely failed it's mission leaving those in charge to save face and say ! :jaw-dropp



We think?????? Is that science?
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Science really isn't your thing, is it Sol? Tell us what the EU geniuses have figured out about comets, bless them. May I remind you of the (lack of) qualifications of Messrs. Thornhill and Talbott?
Scientific pygmies. Couldn't find their backsides with an extra pair of hands.
These are the people you follow. Blindly, it seems, given your own lack of ability to figure our basic science. Sorry, it is a dead argument.
They found water. Explain it.
The density is 470 kg m3. Explain it.
They found water on Halley back in '86. How come Wal didn't tell you that? Explain it.
They have found water (H2O) on other comets from its spectral line. How come? Explain.
They have found water on this comet. Explain it.
Waste of time, I know, you can't change the beliefs of someone that far into a religion. And that's what it is. A quasi-religious neo-Velikovskian load of claptrap.
If you (and presumably Haig) want to believe it, then fine. However, like creationists, keep your nonsense to yourselves, because it sure as hell has nothing to do with REAL science.
 
Sol88 said:
Philae should have told us all of that but because of the mainstreams dogma
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I'm not sure what you mean? Do you mean:

1) If it was ice, Philae would have detected a less hard surface, and its cameras would have shown a surface that looks like ice?

2) Philae doesn't have the instruments necessary to tell if it is ice vs something else, because the people who designed it didn't think it could be anything else but ice?

3) Both of the above

Sol88 said:
But Mainstream can invoke majik orbital mechanics??? WTF:confused:
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What's magical about orbital mechanics?
 
Matthew Cline said:
What's magical about orbital mechanics?
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It's magical for them, because maths isn't a strong point. They can't figure it out. Neither can Wal, bless 'im.

You have to realise that this MUST BE TRUE, otherwise their whole pack of cards falls to the ground.

Bizarrely, Velikovsky, who nobody has ever taken seriously (including Alvfen & Perratt), would be proven wrong. We would never have orbited Saturn, and that is just an area you don't want to go into. Heaven forbid we never orbited Saturn.

Wash your mouth out with soap!
 
Reality Check said:
Sol88, are you saying that you are not intelligent enough to know the difference between a comet and an artificial satellite :jaw-dropp!

The plasma environment around a comet is well known, extensively studied and well modeled. This does not mean that there cannot be interesting scientific discoveries.
It means that the Thunderbolts delusions about comets can be identified as delusions, e.g. no detection of electrical discharges = a delusion that there are electrical discharges.

Your idea that there will be no surprises is delusional, Sol88. A basic point about scientific research is to make new surprising discoveries. Scientists want to break current theories and models because that is how they are trained (and how they get famous!).
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Are you saying you have no idea that they are both conducting bodies moving through magnetic fields? Like Io, Enceladus, TSS-R1 81P/Wild Tempel 1 .......67P

Can't help you mate but like you know 1+1=2 so if you cant make the connection without your hand being held, sorry. :p
 
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Sol88: Is Velikovsky's Venus explaining Joshua 10:13 a delusion or mainstream physics

Sol88 said:
But Mainstream can invoke majik orbital mechanics??? WTF:confused:
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WTF: You are ignorant or deluded enough to think that orbital mechanics is magic Sol88 :jaw-dropp?

You are ignorant enough to think that the 60 year old fantasies of Immanuel Velikovsky do not need to be ridiculed?
This includes the idiotic idea of taking a story in the Bible (Joshua 10:13) and stating that Venus wandered over to Earth and stopped its rotation to make the Sun stand still. A day later Venus magically cam back and restarted Earth's rotation with exactly the same length of day as before :eek:!
This is Velikovsky, Talbott, Thornhill and maybe you and Haig assuming that people are stupid enough to not notice Venus becoming at least the third brightest object in the sky!
This is Velikovsky, Talbott, Thornhill lying about (Joshua 10:13 by neglecting how Venus stopped the Moon in its tracks. That means that the Moon takes a geosynchronous orbit. The Moon was moved from an orbit 384,399 km from the Earth to one that could have been as close as 42,164 km and magically moved back!

12 June 2015 Sol88: Is Velikovsky's Venus explaining Joshua 10:13 a delusion or mainstream physics?
 
Sol88 said:
Are you saying you have no idea that they are both conducting bodies moving through magnetic fields?
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A fantasy about comets being "conducting bodies" when ices, dust and even rock are not as conductive as a tether to designed produce electricity from rotating in a the Earth's magnetic field :eek:.
I am saying that you are deludingly citing something that has nothing to do with comets. Comets are not lengths of wire attached to a spacecraft.
Astronomers know and treat comets as bodies travelling moving through the solar magnetic field and solar wind. But then total dependence on The ignorance, delusions and lies in the Thunderbolts web site, videos etc. means that you will never understand this, Sol88.

Cannot help that you do not know that 0.6 is not 3.0 - maybe you have a five year old child handy to ask, Sol88 :p?

ETA: Not the first time that the TSS-1R results from 1996 have popped up:
23rd December 2014 Sol88: A delusion that discoveries in one area of physics means that other areas of physics are so invalid that comets must be rock (and a delusion abut the contents of the paper)!
The models that needed looking at again were those
the high voltage plasma sheath and wake of a high-voltage satellite moving rapidly in the ionosphere
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Not of a comet moving in the solar magnetic field!
Not of a comet moving in that solar wind!
 
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Sol88 said:
Are you saying you have no idea that they are both conducting bodies moving through magnetic fields
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Or, indeed, like 4179 Toutatis, among others. I did quote Uncle Wal's description of the difference between an asteroid and a comet in that previous post. Need me to do it again? Explain.
And you still seem to be evading the questions:
Why a density of 470 kg m^3? Explain.
Where is all the water coming from? Explain.
Don't worry, Sol, I'm not not going to put these questions at the end of every post you make, just the ones that I notice.
 
Seems to be some dispute in the Thunderjugs arena. They apparently can't figure out the difference between "Think" and "Guess", either...
 
rwguinn said:
Seems to be some dispute in the Thunderjugs arena. They apparently can't figure out the difference between "Think" and "Guess", either...
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They couldn't figure out the difference between a hippo and a brick wall, to be fair. What's their problem now?
 
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