Continuation The Electric Comet Theory Boogaloo (Part 2)

Status
Not open for further replies.
jonesdave116 said:
Ah yes, ESLAB. I'm following it on Twitter. Some interesting stuff by the looks of it.

...snipped
Click to expand...


We agree!

Not looking real good for the condensation/sublimation model (Dirtysnowball) is it?

Also following on twitter! :D
 
Sol88 said:
Not looking real good for the condensation/sublimation model (Dirtysnowball) is it?
Click to expand...
Only for people mindlessly following the Thunderbolts cult without thinking for themselves, Sol88.
All of the results from the last 60 years, especially the Rosetta mission, have confirmed that comets are made of ices and dust. That is the valid model that you and your cult deny.
 
Reality Check said:
Only for people mindlessly following the Thunderbolts cult without thinking for themselves, Sol88.
All of the results from the last 60 years, especially the Rosetta mission, have confirmed that comets are made of ices and dust. That is the valid model that you and your cult deny.
Click to expand...

Confirmed???? Really? Seems they have a lot of dust (more then ice) and the "ice" is hidden conveniently out of view! but to say it's confirmed they are MADE from dust and ice...well get your hand off it me 'ol mate :blush:

:eusa_boohoo:

Sublimation got sum splanen to do!

MUPUS on Philae ‏@Philae_MUPUS 13 hrs13 hours ago

#ESLAB Keller: scarp of flat region on Wild 2 retreated by 20 - 30 m from one visit to next one. Needs more than sublimation to explain.
Click to expand...

RC, do you have an explanation???
 
Last edited:
Sol88: Delusion that comets are made of varying ices and dust = not ices and dust

Sol88 said:
Confirmed???? Really? ...
Click to expand...
Really, Sol88.
The cult or you holding that the measured amount of ices and dust found on various comets invalidates the model that comets are made of ices and dust is just one of many delusions. One which I do not think that I have documented!
18 March 2016 Sol88: The delusion that detecting that comets are made of various amounts of ices and dust invalidates the model that comets are made of ices and dust :eye-poppi!

Of course the primary delusion held by you, Sol88, for many years remains that comets are rocks because you believe in the Thunderbolts cult delusion that they were blown off the surface of planets (probably Earth!) in recent times.
 
Sol88 said:
RC, do you have an explanation???
Click to expand...
That you cannot read English, Sol88 ????
MUPUS on Philae ‏@Philae_MUPUS 13 hrs13 hours ago

#ESLAB Keller: scarp of flat region on Wild 2 retreated by 20 - 30 m from one visit to next one. Needs more than sublimation to explain.
Click to expand...
That you cannot understand the idiocy of science by quoting tweets, Sol88?
That you have the delusion that no sublimation happens on comets, Sol88?
That you retain the delusion that comets are rocks is taken fro granted, Sol88!

ETA: A Wild 2 scrap retreated more than sublimation (of the scarp?) can explain in the opinion of a tweet author. There are other processes on a comet made of ices and dust.
 
Last edited:
Sol88: Lies yet again with "ices" when comets have ices

Sol88 said:
...the "ice" is hidden conveniently out of view! :...
Click to expand...
Lying yet again with "ices" should make you :blush:, Sol88.
18 March 2016 Sol88: Lies yet again with "ices" when comets have ices.
 
Last edited:
Sol88: A lie about ices being hidden- we have detected lots of ice on comets

Sol88 said:
...the "ice" is hidden conveniently out of view!
Click to expand...
18 March 2016 Sol88: A lie about ices being hidden - we have detected lots of ice on comets, e.g. the impact ejecta from Tempel 1 and several Rosetta observations.
 
Sol88: Delusion that comets have not been confirmed to be ices and dust

Sol88 said:
...but to say it's confirmed they are MADE from dust and ice...
Click to expand...
18 March 2016 Sol88: Delusion that comets have not been confirmed to have been made of ices and dust.
That was indirectly confirmed in the 1950's when the density of comets was first measured to be less than that of water :jaw-dropp! Since then the only question was direct confirmation which has been done with the observations of ices and dust:
18 March 2016 Sol88: A lie about ices being hidden - we have detected lots of ice on comets, e.g. the impact ejecta from Tempel 1 and several Rosetta observations.

That makes 2 delusions and 2 lies in one paragraph!
 
Since you like tweets, Sol88.
How does the electric comet explain this with actual science not fantasies Sol88?
MUPUS on Philae ‏@Philae_MUPUS · 14h14 hours ago

#ESLAB Keller: Indication of large scale particle relocation from south part to northern hemisphere via lift of and subsequent airfall
Click to expand...
 
Reality Check said:
Since you like tweets, Sol88.
How does the electric comet explain this with actual science not fantasies Sol88?
Click to expand...

Pluckaduck RC!!!!

Surface charging and electrostatic dust acceleration at the nucleus of comet 67P during periods of low activity

2.4. Flux of ejected charged nanodust from the surface.

In the context of orbiter observations we would therefore expect to encounter a population of negatively charged nanograins when the spacecraft crosses above the local terminator.
Click to expand...
and blow me me over with a feather, they did indeed find negatively charged nanograins!

These grains may then be electrostatically lifted and levitated above the surface if the electrostatic force Fe=qgrainEnormalFe=qgrainEnormal exceeds the gravitational force FgFg, assuming that any cohesive forces are negligible.
Click to expand...

So it really should read
#ESLAB Keller: Indication of large scale particle relocation from south part to northern hemisphere via electrostatic lift, levitation and subsequent airfall
Click to expand...


Read up Reality Check! you might actually learn something :)
 
Last edited:
Sorry Sol, but everything looks just fine for sublimation. Ice on and below the surface, and sufficient temperatures to cause it to sublime. You could not stop it from subliming any more than you could take a tray of ice out of your freezer, leave it at room temperature, and stop it from melting. You can stand over it and pray to all sorts of electrical deities. It will still melt.
On a related note, anyone who has access to paywalled papers may find the following two recent papers of interest:
"Sublimation of water ice mixed with silicates and tholins: Evolution of surface texture and reflectance spectra, with implications for comets"
Poch, et al.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0019103515005709

"Sublimation of ice–tholins mixtures: A morphological and spectro-photometric study"
Poch et al.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0019103515005163

Of particular interest in one of the mixtures they use, is the development of a hard (yet to be determined how hard), dark and porous mantle above the ice. Sound familiar?
 
Sol88 said:
Confirmed???? Really? Seems they have a lot of dust (more then ice) and the "ice" is hidden conveniently out of view! but to say it's confirmed they are MADE from dust and ice...well get your hand off it me 'ol mate :blush:
Click to expand...

Yep, confirmed since ages ago. As I've no doubt linked to before. A few papers on the actual observation of sublimation from small patches on the surface as they come out of shadow.
Then we have: "In particular we observed big (> 1500 m2) bright ice rich areas in the southern hemisphere which completely sublimated in a few weeks."
Fornasier et al, from the ESLAB abstract booklet, p. 44.

And of course, the ice detected below the surface in the southern hemisphere, as first tentatively suggested here: http://www.aanda.org/articles/aa/full_html/2015/11/aa26181-15/aa26181-15.html


And then confirmed as being ice here: https://agu.confex.com/agu/fm15/meetingapp.cgi/Paper/85998
"..............and also see evidence for subsurface ice in some regions."

So plenty of ice. Have they worked out the details to the Nth degree? No. However, one thing is for sure; they won't be looking to Wallace & Gromit's electric comet model to explain anything. Something it has so far spectacularly failed to do, in case nobody's noticed.

EDIT: And now it looks like they've found CO2 ice at the surface: https://twitter.com/Philae_MUPUS/status/710742660269645825
 
Last edited:
Sol88 said:
Pluckaduck RC!!!!

Surface charging and electrostatic dust acceleration at the nucleus of comet 67P during periods of low activity

and blow me me over with a feather, they did indeed find negatively charged nanograins!



So it really should read


Read up Reality Check! you might actually learn something :)
Click to expand...

I'm struggling to see what this has got to do with electric comet predictions (such as they were)? This is a process that has long been postulated as a possible mechanism on various solar system bodies. There is nothing 'EU' about it, unless they've taken out a patent on all words starting with 'elect...'
A quick look on Google scholar shows articles going back long before Wallace & Gromit invented their electric comet fantasy.
 
jonesdave116 said:
I'm struggling to see what this has got to do with electric comet predictions (such as they were)? This is a process that has long been postulated as a possible mechanism on various solar system bodies. There is nothing 'EU' about it, unless they've taken out a patent on all words starting with 'elect...'
A quick look on Google scholar shows articles going back long before Wallace & Gromit invented their electric comet fantasy.
Click to expand...

All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
 
MUPUS on Philae ‏@Philae_MUPUS 15 hrs15 hours ago

#ESLAB50 Fulle: We need to rethink our understanding of comet formation i.e. solar system formation completely.
 
MUPUS on Philae ‏@Philae_MUPUS 15 hrs15 hours ago

#ESLAB50 Fulchignioni:

Predictions before mission were largely based on assumptions which did not hold. #ThatsWhyWeHaveMissions
 
Sol88 said:
MUPUS on Philae ‏@Philae_MUPUS 15 hrs15 hours ago

#ESLAB50 Fulchignioni:

Predictions before mission were largely based on assumptions which did not hold. #ThatsWhyWeHaveMissions
Click to expand...

Exactly. The stated purpose of this mission was, to paraphrase, to discover more about the formation conditions of comets and, by implication, the solar system.
None of the tweets you reference means that they are suddenly going to start suggesting that comets are rocks blown off of planetary bodies by gigantic lightning bolts, nor that planets were spat out of electric stars.

New models will be constrained by this data, as well as what we can observe in star forming regions elsewhere. We can see protoplanetary disks, and even see the early stages of solar system formation (http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap141110.html). What we can't do is travel there and make in-situ measurements. Nor build a time machine and go back 4.6 Ga to watch our own system form.
One thing is certain from the data; whatever happened, it happened a very long time ago, and it was very cold.
None of which, of course, helps the EU ideas on solar system or comet formation.
 
Sol88 said:
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
Click to expand...

I don't recall this particular hypothesis being either violently opposed nor ridiculed. It is well within mainstream physics.
Many hypotheses are "opposed" by people who have a different hypothesis. These disagreements are usually settled by one side or the other finding the evidence to back up the hypothesis. Three that spring to mind, that faced some resistance, were the Out of Africa model for human evolution, the K-T impact hypothesis, and Wegener's continental drift model.
In the end, the weight of evidence showed these hypotheses to be correct.
Evidence is king.
 
jonesdave116 said:
Exactly. The stated purpose of this mission was, to paraphrase, to discover more about the formation conditions of comets and, by implication, the solar system.
None of the tweets you reference means that they are suddenly going to start suggesting that comets are rocks blown off of planetary bodies by gigantic lightning bolts, nor that planets were spat out of electric stars.

New models will be constrained by this data, as well as what we can observe in star forming regions elsewhere. We can see protoplanetary disks, and even see the early stages of solar system formation (http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap141110.html). What we can't do is travel there and make in-situ measurements. Nor build a time machine and go back 4.6 Ga to watch our own system form.
One thing is certain from the data; whatever happened, it happened a very long time ago, and it was very cold.
None of which, of course, helps the EU ideas on solar system or comet formation.
Click to expand...

Ummmm.....the assumption were comets are frozen lumps of dust and ice, left over from the formation of the solar system, gently sublimating in the the Suns warmth.

That's it :D

Rosetta went to 67P to confirm these assumptions.

See signature below ;)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Share this page

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom