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Tags general discussion , holocaust , holocaust denial , World War II history

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Old 8th August 2016, 09:54 AM   #801
Ivanesca
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Originally Posted by LemmyCaution View Post

But then there's the dissonance to the anti-Semitic narrative of hoaxing in that Hogan's Heroes featured one star from Germany who was Jewish under the Reich's racial laws and whose family had fled Germany in 1935 (Werner Klemperer, playing Colonel Klink - Klemperer was nephew of Dresden diarist Victor Klemperer whose journal is a widely used source for the Holocaust in Germany as seen by a Jew in a mixed marriage)
On the subject of Victor Klemperer, it always strikes me how he remained a loyal German nationalist even after the war and everything the Nazi Regime did to him and his people. Even to the extent of becoming an Anti Zionist himself. Most German Jews felt the same way, if I'm not mistaken. It makes one wonder exactly where all those "Hostile" Jews allegedly came from, other than the Deniers' feverish imaginations....
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Old 8th August 2016, 09:54 AM   #802
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Originally Posted by JimRizoli View Post
You do know ZB is lighter than air?

JR
And?

If you are in a sealed, limited expansion space,with a saturation density, what difference would comparative weight make?

There would stil only be the volume of the chamber for it to expand into.
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Old 8th August 2016, 09:55 AM   #803
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Originally Posted by JimRizoli View Post
Excellent points why would the Germans spend so much time and energy and money on new technologies to keep people alive yeah that's what they did.

JR
The Germans took the time because the epidemics affected GERMAN personnel, Jim. The SS stationed at Auschwitz exposed themselves to the same epidemics as the inmates. I'll need to look but I think one of the wives of the SS died during the typhus epidemic of 1942. Also, any epidemic in the camp or camps could spread outside the camp(s) and infect the surrounding towns or cities.

The SS also wanted to keep epidemics from spreading among the working inmates, they needed those inmates to work. This had nothing to do with those selected on arrival for execution.
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Old 8th August 2016, 09:55 AM   #804
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
He and Rizoli totally have my vote, if it's possible to vote for two different people.

Rizoli/HDenier for Stundie 2016.
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Old 8th August 2016, 09:59 AM   #805
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Originally Posted by Tomtomkent View Post
And?

If you are in a sealed, limited expansion space,with a saturation density, what difference would comparative weight make?

There would stil only be the volume of the chamber for it to expand into.
Well said.

Rizoli is actually defending Berg's stupidity. Too bad Berg already won the Stundie for this statement: we can't nominate Rizoli for it anymore.
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Old 8th August 2016, 10:02 AM   #806
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Originally Posted by JimRizoli View Post
You do know ZB is lighter than air?

JR
So what?
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Old 8th August 2016, 10:03 AM   #807
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Originally Posted by JimRizoli View Post
You do know ZB is lighter than air?

JR
Not of any utility as a pesticide then?
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Old 8th August 2016, 10:11 AM   #808
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Zyclon B

Originally Posted by JimRizoli View Post
You do know ZB is lighter than air?

JR
Yes it is, Jim. This means that when released it will naturally fill the space it is released in without mechanical assistance. In other words, no need for fans. It will also escape the room it is released in when doors or windows are opened.

ZB was a common pesticide used to fumigate office buildings, ships, even orchards.
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Old 8th August 2016, 10:16 AM   #809
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Bone crusher and other nonsense

Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
Don't forget the bone crusher. This took 2 seconds to find:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:M...ation_camp.png
What nonsense. How dare you open yourself up for ridicule by showing us a supposed bone crusher machine when it is linked to this nonsense even the Holocaust museum says is a myth. The soap, the gloves, is all a MYTH says the Holohoax people themselves...

From your link that you apparently missed....
'A bone crusher from Janowska and other items such as a bar of soap made from human fat and gloves of human skin produced in the camps can be seen in the Museum of the Great Patriotic War in Kiev"

I'm not saying they couldn't have a bone crusher machine if there was, what does it prove? That they had a bone crusher machine machine for dead bodies. It doesn't mean anything any more that than Immigrants coming into Ellis Island and the crematoriums they had there. So Ellis Island gassed people? Can you make that wild assumption?

But your bone crusher link and the soap and glove nonsense make me believe that the bone crusher machine may not even be what you say it is since it is linked with other "myths", nice try though...lol
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Old 8th August 2016, 10:16 AM   #810
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Originally Posted by JimRizoli View Post
And what is wrong with that thinking?

JR
It displays your bias, Jim. That makes it hard for people to take you seriously.
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Old 8th August 2016, 10:18 AM   #811
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Originally Posted by JimRizoli View Post
You do know ZB is lighter than air?

JR
Air=0.001225 g/cm3

ZB=0.687 g/cm3

Perhaps you might want to rethink that claim.
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Old 8th August 2016, 10:20 AM   #812
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Air=0.001225 g/cm3

ZB=0.687 g/cm3

Perhaps you might want to rethink that claim.
ETA: And why does it matter anyway? It is an enclosed space.
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Old 8th August 2016, 10:22 AM   #813
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Originally Posted by JimRizoli View Post
You do know ZB is lighter than air?

JR
By the way Zyklon B as such is not lighter than air as shown on this picture: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zyklon..._documents.jpg
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Old 8th August 2016, 10:24 AM   #814
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Originally Posted by Jeffk 1970 View Post
I'm still waiting for Jim to post the alleged report that stated Krema II-V were unsuitable for conversion into gas chambers.

Background:
Jim stated that during the Vienna Trial of 1972 of the two Auschwitz engineers someone submitted an expert report that the Krema could not be converted into gas chambers.

I'd like to see a copy of that report.
Jeff....I'm still waiting for a picture of a real live homicidal gas chamber, a person who was killed in one, pictures of mass graves with millions of bodies.
Seems to be a reasonable request.....the links and pics you're showing are laughable.
Try using them in a court of law and see how far you get.

JR
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Old 8th August 2016, 10:25 AM   #815
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Originally Posted by HDenier View Post
What nonsense. How dare you open yourself up for ridicule by showing us a supposed bone crusher machine when it is linked to this nonsense even the Holocaust museum says is a myth. The soap, the gloves, is all a MYTH says the Holohoax people themselves...

From your link that you apparently missed....
'A bone crusher from Janowska and other items such as a bar of soap made from human fat and gloves of human skin produced in the camps can be seen in the Museum of the Great Patriotic War in Kiev"


But your bone crusher link and the soap and glove nonsense make me believe that the bone crusher machine may not even be what you say it is since it is linked with other "myths", nice try though...lol
Soap and skin gloves are irrelevant, HD. They do not prove or disprove the Holocaust. Much like the denier obsession over Elie Wiesel's tattoo or Anne Frank's Diary.

I'll tell you what, HD. Why don't you show us your evidence on where the Jewish transports wound up? Most "revisionist" theories state these transports wound up in the Soviet Union. Where is the evidence for this?
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Old 8th August 2016, 10:29 AM   #816
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Originally Posted by JimRizoli View Post
Jeff....I'm still waiting for a picture of a real live homicidal gas chamber, a person who was killed in one, pictures of mass graves with millions of bodies.
Seems to be a reasonable request.....the links and pics you're showing are laughable.
Try using them in a court of law and see how far you get.

JR
Jim, answer my question:

Do you or do you not have a copy of the report you mentioned? Yes or no?

If you do not then I will conclude that it does not exist.

Last edited by Jeffk 1970; 8th August 2016 at 10:31 AM.
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Old 8th August 2016, 10:35 AM   #817
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Originally Posted by JimRizoli View Post
And what is wrong with that thinking?

JR
It's already failed.
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Old 8th August 2016, 10:37 AM   #818
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Originally Posted by JimRizoli View Post
Jeff....I'm still waiting for a picture of a real live homicidal gas chamber, a person who was killed in one, pictures of mass graves with millions of bodies.
Seems to be a reasonable request.....the links and pics you're showing are laughable.
Try using them in a court of law and see how far you get.

JR
So, Rizoli changes the subject after being schooled about the real purpose of ZB. Typical.

I can post links now, neat:
http://phdn.org/archives/holocaust-h...gasungskeller/
Quote:
- da der Vergasungskeller hierfür benützt werden kann.-
- as the gassing cellar can be used for this purpose.-
This isn't a forgery.

Rizoli's obsession with "photos" of this and that is a non sequitur, as usual. It doesn't follow that something doesn't exist because there aren't any photos of it. Rizoli might as well dismiss all history before the invention of the camera.

Also, he and HDenier have been shown photos of mass graves in bodies. It's not our problem if they don't want to deal with it.
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Old 8th August 2016, 10:40 AM   #819
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Another holohoax fraud where people lives were put in the balance.

http://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/bib215638

The beasts of Buchenwald : Karl & Ilse Koch, human-skin lampshades, and the war-crimes trial of the century / Flint Whitlock

Again the lampshades is a "MYTH" yet Miss Koch was tried for these lies. She had no idea what these accusations were about when she was tried. The holohoax liars just made up this stuff...The soap crap is still presented as evidence on the USHMM.org web site.

the book I referenced that most of you laughed at about, the skin lampshades is still referenced at the USHMM,org web site....
http://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/bib212797

of course they say the "ALLEGED" notice the words people.
German civilians are forced to look at a display in the Buchenwald concentration camp of tattoos and a lampshade allegedly made from human remains.…

http://collections.ushmm.org/search/...eld=all_fields

Keep the holohoax myths and lies coming you "skeptics"...and you ask me to believe your holohoax contradictory nonsense.....lol....
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Old 8th August 2016, 10:43 AM   #820
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Originally Posted by Jeffk 1970 View Post
Yes it is, Jim. This means that when released it will naturally fill the space it is released in without mechanical assistance. In other words, no need for fans. It will also escape the room it is released in when doors or windows are opened.

ZB was a common pesticide used to fumigate office buildings, ships, even orchards.
Absolute nonsense!
Now let them show us how it works in a real room....guess what they can't!
Just like the nonexistent pictures of homicidal gas chambers, mass graves etc....all talk no action.
Then you have the nerve to turn this all around and ask us to prove it didn't happen! Thats like saying prove men didn't land on Mars.....Ok, they didn't.
You sure wouldn't last in a courtroom.....You HoloHuxsters only survive here because you bully all the wimps into submission, sorry guys aint going to happen with us.
Welcome to the Skeptoid site where all things are looked upon in a critical light EXCET the HoloHoax.....it happened because it happened....yup that about sums it up. LOL
Yup....Six million fools killed in fake gas chambers, with bug spray..couldn't get any better than that. Of course we do have a UFO sighting by Kurt Gerstein who saw a 120 ft pile high of clothing, and lets not forget that 75 ft hing pile of shoes to go with the clothing.
Oh wait a minute there is more.....up to 2 million people killed, by diesel exhaust, buried, dug up and burned on huge hibachis, and the ashes spread all over the place with NO trace. And lets not forget the bone crushing machine that pulverized all 2 million bodies to ashes, only one machine to crush 2 million bodies....LOL
They still would be crushing the bodies today at that pace.
Yes folks welcome to the Skeptoid nonsense site, where reality of nonsense exist for this one HoloHoax topic and plenty of HoloHuxsters to keep the nonsense going. This is where I get a few chuckles to start my day off......


JR
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Old 8th August 2016, 10:49 AM   #821
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Originally Posted by HDenier View Post
Another holohoax fraud where people lives were put in the balance.



The beasts of Buchenwald : Karl & Ilse Koch, human-skin lampshades, and the war-crimes trial of the century / Flint Whitlock

Again the lampshades is a "MYTH" yet Miss Koch was tried for these lies. She had no idea what these accusations were about when she was tried. The holohoax liars just made up this stuff...The soap crap is still presented as evidence on the USHMM.org web site.

the book I referenced that most of you laughed at about, the skin lampshades is still referenced at the USHMM,org web site....


of course they say the "ALLEGED" notice the words people.
German civilians are forced to look at a display in the Buchenwald concentration camp of tattoos and a lampshade allegedly made from human remains.…



Keep the holohoax myths and lies coming you "skeptics"...and you ask me to believe your holohoax contradictory nonsense.....lol....
Ilse Koch was released when the British? I think? Reviewed her case and found no substance in the whole "skin lampshade" charge.
Make sure to include the whole story, HD.

This is a correction, the American General Lucious Clay released Koch after reviewing her case and deciding the items were made from goat skin. The West Germans arrested her after her release.

Last edited by Jeffk 1970; 8th August 2016 at 11:37 AM. Reason: Correct incorrect information
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Old 8th August 2016, 10:49 AM   #822
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Originally Posted by JimRizoli View Post
Jeff....I'm still waiting for a picture of a real live homicidal gas chamber, a person who was killed in one, pictures of mass graves with millions of bodies.
Seems to be a reasonable request.....the links and pics you're showing are laughable.
Try using them in a court of law and see how far you get.

JR
Just to clarify: do you really think that a court of law cannot work properly without pictures?

How did they do then before the invention of photography?
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Old 8th August 2016, 10:55 AM   #823
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What is "absolute nonsense?"

Zyclon B was a common pesticide, Jim. It was used in orchards, office buildings, submarines, grain silos.

I can't post links yet. Could someone please help Jim with this?
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Old 8th August 2016, 11:07 AM   #824
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Originally Posted by JimRizoli View Post
Absolute nonsense!

Then you have the nerve to turn this all around and ask us to prove it didn't happen! Thats like saying prove men didn't land on Mars.....Ok, they didn't.
You sure wouldn't last in a courtroom.....You HoloHuxsters only survive here because you bully all the wimps into submission, sorry guys aint going to happen with us.

JR
If the scientific and historical consensus was that people had landed on Mars, then it would be up to you to prove that it hadn't happened.

In the matter at forum, you have made the contention that the Holocaust did not happen - a claim which is contrary to the weight of historical evidence - and then have done nothing to prove your claim.

Instead what you have done is dismissed any and all of the evidence that has been shown to you, or ignored the evidence that is contrary to your assertions. In keeping with your courtroom analogy you're at the "when both the evidence and the law are against you, pound on the table" stage.

The evidence of the Holocaust is overwhelming - over 10 million people were systematically killed using a wide variety of means. Your personal incredulity does not affect this, nor does not it make it go away.

At the end of the day, all you are acting like is a little child standing up during a family dinner and swearing - you just want attention from the grown ups, and figure that negative attention is just as good as positive attention.
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Old 8th August 2016, 11:09 AM   #825
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Who cares where they wound up

Originally Posted by Jeffk 1970 View Post
Soap and skin gloves are irrelevant, HD. They do not prove or disprove the Holocaust. Much like the denier obsession over Elie Wiesel's tattoo or Anne Frank's Diary.

I'll tell you what, HD. Why don't you show us your evidence on where the Jewish transports wound up? Most "revisionist" theories state these transports wound up in the Soviet Union. Where is the evidence for this?
The soap, skin, gloves is part of the narrative to make the Germans seem like demons. Its a major part of a psychological mind game to destroy Germans, and guess what? it worked. Those stories just stuck the nail deeper for gullible people to accept. WITHOUT these stories the Jews were treated just like other prisoners. They captivity wasn't pleasant but they weren't on the extermination list. Jehovah's Witnesses had a much greater problem than the Jews. I have a 700 page book discussing their plight and nowhere in the major text are gas chambers mentioned and these people were right along some of these Jews in the camps.

I could care less about your Jewish transports concerns, like it was all about just Jews as always. That is your story to tell. I've showed many many lies the whole holohoax narrative has made. That fact in itself would make you skeptics start asking more questions. You don't need lies and myths to make your story if was was the truth from the beginning..

The holohoax is like Domestic abuse but with the lady going to court lieing all the time against her faithful wonderful husband. She makes up false stories because she was the unfaithful one, the evil bitch, to make the man look bad and guess what, she usually wins. The holohoax is nothing more than domestic abuse against the public by the Jews. Their lies are being exposed as we, the public review the court ( holohoax ) records, and they are not happy about it, just like some of you aren't happy with it.

Your information you ask is just to take everyone off the trail of the myths and lies...nice try....

Th Jews have hijacked WW2 and made it their story, and one filled with lies as is expected...America was in that war, are you knowledgeable about how many AMERICANS died in that war? I wasn't, WHY? Because of the 6 million BS nonsense. The Jews story and their live even became more important than American lives...Wake up people..
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Old 8th August 2016, 11:14 AM   #826
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Originally Posted by HDenier View Post
<snip>
Th Jews have hijacked WW2 and made it their story, and one filled with lies as is expected...America was in that war, are you knowledgeable about how many AMERICANS died in that war? I wasn't, WHY? Because of the 6 million BS nonsense. The Jews story and their live even became more important than American lives...Wake up people..
Really, you're alleging that America's role in WWII and the winning thereof has been suppressed in favour of the Holocaust? What planet are you from?
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Old 8th August 2016, 11:16 AM   #827
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
It has to be trolling... .
Has to be. Seriously:
Originally Posted by HDenier View Post
holohoax posters seem to be loosing this argument.
...

( how's my spelling )
Originally Posted by HDenier View Post
If the holocaust was such a big event as LM says why was the FIRST museum opened In 1993?
Originally Posted by LemmyCaution View Post
The claims in the quoted material don't make sense. It would help readers (two have already complained, and I now I am doing so) deal with such discrepancies if you had provided a source for what you quoted - not doing so is quite discourteous.
That poster has only 5 posts as I write this, and you cannot post links until 15 posts are accepted. They could post "whatever dot com slash whatever" though.
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Old 8th August 2016, 11:21 AM   #828
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Originally Posted by Jeffk 1970 View Post
What is "absolute nonsense?"

Zyclon B was a common pesticide, Jim. It was used in orchards, office buildings, submarines, grain silos.

I can't post links yet. Could someone please help Jim with this?
Originally Posted by wikipedia
Zyklon B (German pronunciation: [tsykloːn ˈbeː]; anglicized /ˈzaɪklɒn ˈbiː/[citation needed] or translated Cyclone B) was the trade name of a cyanide-based pesticide invented in Germany in the early 1920s. It consisted of hydrogen cyanide (prussic acid), a cautionary eye irritant, and one of several adsorbents such as diatomaceous earth. The product is infamous for its use by Nazi Germany during the Holocaust to murder a million people in gas chambers installed at Auschwitz-Birkenau, Majdanek, and other extermination camps.

Hydrogen cyanide, a poisonous gas that interferes with cellular respiration, was first used as a pesticide in California in the 1880s. Research at Degesch of Germany led to the development of Zyklon (later known as Zyklon A), a pesticide which released hydrogen cyanide upon exposure to water and heat. It was banned after a similar product was used by Germany as a chemical weapon in World War I. In 1922, Degesch was purchased by Degussa, where a team of chemists that included Walter Heerdt (de) and Bruno Tesch developed a method of packaging hydrogen cyanide in sealed canisters along with a cautionary eye irritant and adsorbent stabilizers. The new product was also named Zyklon, but it became known as Zyklon B to distinguish it from the earlier version. Uses included delousing clothing and disinfecting ships, warehouses, and trains.

.......

Firms in several countries continue to produce Zyklon B under alternative brand names, including Detia-Degesch, the successor to Degesch, who renamed the product to Cyanosil in 1974.
It's worth noting that the wikipedia article does not claim that 6 million people were murdered using "bug spray." No one has made that claim, so it's unclear why someone would pretend to argue against it.
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Old 8th August 2016, 11:28 AM   #829
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".yup that about sums it up. LOL
Yup....Six million fools killed in fake gas chambers, with bug spray..couldn't get any better than that. Of course we do have a UFO sighting by Kurt Gerstein who saw a 120 ft pile high of clothing, and lets not forget that 75 ft hing pile of shoes to go with the clothing."

Where have I heard that before??????

Jim, where are you getting the "6 million killed with bug spray?" I really want to know.
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Old 8th August 2016, 11:39 AM   #830
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Originally Posted by HDenier View Post
I have a 700 page book discussing their plight and nowhere in the major text are gas chambers mentioned and these people were right along some of these Jews in the camps.
Could you provide us with the title of this book?
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Old 8th August 2016, 11:44 AM   #831
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Originally Posted by JimRizoli View Post
Funny....I thought thats what you HoloHuxsters were doing...LOL

JR
Not sure why you think that this post is funny . . . but are you admitting hereby that you do not have the document you claimed to have?
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Old 8th August 2016, 11:57 AM   #832
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Originally Posted by Jeffk 1970 View Post

Where have I heard that before??????

Jim, where are you getting the "6 million killed with bug spray?" I really want to know.
I posted this by hitting the "quote" button at the bottom right of your post. If you do this, it will be much easier for others to follow who and what you are quoting.
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Old 8th August 2016, 12:00 PM   #833
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Originally Posted by Degeneve View Post
Could you provide us with the title of this book?
I"m guessing 'Truth filled truthiness for dummies' a pop up illustrated book.
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Old 8th August 2016, 12:10 PM   #834
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Originally Posted by HDenier View Post
the book I referenced that most of you laughed at about, the skin lampshades is still referenced at the USHMM,org web site....
http://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/bib212797
So what?

Of course, no one here has cited this book as holding any value. The USHMM collection, like, er, collections, has lots of odd titles without approving their contents. The Kirkus review of Jacobson's book notes that "The official position of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum is that the lampshade is a myth." So the USHMM has weighed in on this particular title, at least to one reviewer - whoopsie, to two reviewers ("KALISH: Despite the many stories and the film footage, the use of skin for lampshades is largely seen as mythology, something Mark Jacobson discovered when he tried to donate the lampshade to the Yad Vashem museum in Jerusalem and the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington, D.C.")

You do know that Koch's conviction on the grounds of the lampshade was later reversed, right? From Wikipedia: "After her conviction for war crimes, General Lucius D. Clay, the interim military governor of the American Zone in Germany, reduced her sentence to four years' prison on the grounds 'there was no convincing evidence that she had selected Nazi concentration camp inmates for extermination in order to secure tattooed skins, or that she possessed any articles made of human skin'."

You're making a total bollocks of this. Why not just list off the many Holocaust books you say you've spent good money on and identify those which crossover with the list of a dozen books I provided you? That will keep you from digging your hole deeper.
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Old 8th August 2016, 12:13 PM   #835
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Originally Posted by JimRizoli View Post
Absolute nonsense!
This is your explanation?

Originally Posted by JimRizoli View Post
Now let them show us how it works in a real room....guess what they can't!
Just like the nonexistent pictures of homicidal gas chambers, mass graves etc....all talk no action.
And this is your supporting evidence?

Ok, but . . . sheesh.
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Old 8th August 2016, 12:17 PM   #836
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Originally Posted by Jeffk 1970 View Post
Could someone please help Jim with this?
It will be difficult as he disregards whatever is linked to.
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Old 8th August 2016, 12:20 PM   #837
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Originally Posted by HDenier View Post
I have a 700 page book discussing their plight and nowhere in the major text are gas chambers mentioned and these people were right along some of these Jews in the camps.
Citation please.

Originally Posted by HDenier View Post
Th Jews have hijacked WW2 and made it their story, and one filled with lies as is expected...
To remind you: Nazi criminality was not reserved for the European Jews. Examples cited earlier in this post.

Originally Posted by HDenier View Post
America was in that war, are you knowledgeable about how many AMERICANS died in that war? I wasn't, WHY? Because of the 6 million BS nonsense. The Jews story and their live even became more important than American lives...Wake up people..
I have no idea what you're talking about. Have you ever attended a Memorial Day ceremony? Please elaborate on what you're trying to say.
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Old 8th August 2016, 12:23 PM   #838
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Originally Posted by JimRizoli View Post
Absolute nonsense!
Now let them show us how it works in a real room....guess what they can't!
Well, it works just like the same way it works in US gas chambers in the States which have decided to use this mean for capital punishment...

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Old 8th August 2016, 12:25 PM   #839
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
That poster has only 5 posts as I write this, and you cannot post links until 15 posts are accepted. They could post "whatever dot com slash whatever" though.
Sources need not be links or even online. A simple citation will do. Posting someone else's material without citation is beyond discourteous - as is making claims without facilitating readers in checking them.

In this case, I was able to find the material online, but I didn't know if it was online or not from the post - all we were told is that it was "A small blurb of info." I myself cite material regularly that doesn't appear on the web. It is easy for me to give an author and book title/page number when I do - I am not asking for standard academic citation formats, simply a way to find and check on claims.
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Old 8th August 2016, 12:29 PM   #840
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
It's worth noting that the wikipedia article does not claim that 6 million people were murdered using "bug spray." No one has made that claim, so it's unclear why someone would pretend to argue against it.
Because Jim Rizoli has made the claim a number of times. Here's one of those times. And another. You should take this up with Jim Rizoli.
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