Continuation The Electric Comet Theory Boogaloo (Part 2)

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It should also be noted that when Thornie made that comment, in 2010, solid ice particles had already been detected in the ejecta from the Tempel 1 impact. Strange, but you will find no reference to this on thundedolts or hollowscience! Wonder why?
Now, remind me Sol - how was it that you came to get conned by this bloke?

Detection of water ice grains after the DEEP IMPACT onto Comet 9P/Tempel 1
Sculz, R. et al, 2006
http://home.strw.leidenuniv.nl/~stuwe/MyPapers/AuAv448pL53y2006.pdf

The distribution of water ice in the interior of Comet Tempel 1
Sunshine, J. M. et al, 2007
http://www.planetary.brown.edu/pdfs/3546.pdf
 
Reality Check said:
SAO/NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS) has 25 abstracts for 'electric currents in the coma of comets' (184 for 'electric currents comet').

Sol88 may be trying to mindlessly parrot Thunderbolts cult dogma as usual, e.g. that astronomers ignore electric currents in space or that papers mentioning electric currents are support for their delusions. Maybe there is an EU insanity of electric current = electric discharge?
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Well, then I did well in my review paper with about 130 references :-)

Yes, there is a weird dichotomy in EU, they claim that mainstream does not discuss electric fields and electric currents (which is clearly wrong) but then do use all the (not) published mainstream papers as support for the EU.
 
Sol88 said:
But all REQUIRE the flow of electric charge, yeah?

Originally Posted by tusenfem View Post
I am not going to answer this


Yes all REQUIRE an electric current, or a flow of electric charge :D

Sorry Tusenfem :(

your's was a very feeble 10^5 amps
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The question that you asked was similar to "does water consist of H2O?"
It may have sounded profound to an EU follower, it was just plain stupid for anyone who knows their way around electrodynamics.
 
Sol88: Understand yet that Debye length = no large scale electric current in plasma?

Sol88 said:
Do you still believe , Reality Check?
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I believe the textbooks, Wikipedia (with a pinch of salt!), many credible sources across the Internet, what I learned in my 7 years at university learning physics and statements of experts such as Hannes Alfven.

Basic fact about plasma told to you on 10th July 2009 (:jaw-dropp):
There are no large scale electric currents in a plasma so your ignorance of science is obvious once (Debye length)


That post was about your 2009 delusion that comets are rocks blown off Earth in recent times with electrical discharges that you still believe in almost 8 years later. The really deluded part of the post is that your statement is about comet tails, not the comet nucleus where your delusion has the electrical discharges, and electric currents, not discharges.

1 February 2017 Sol88: Can you understand that plasma is quasi-neutral with no electric currents larger than the Debye length.
N.B. This is a plasma considered by itself. For example add an external magnetic field and electric currents on scales above the Debye length are possible.
And if you ever want to learn about double layers rather than parroting Thunderbolts cult dogma: Double layer - Features and Characteristics
Thickness: The production of a double layer requires regions with a significant excess of positive or negative charge, that is, where quasi-neutrality is violated. In general, quasi-neutrality can only be violated on scales of the Debye length. The thickness of a double layer is of the order of ten Debye lengths, which is a few centimeters in the ionosphere, a few tens of meters in the interplanetary medium, and tens of kilometers in the intergalactic medium.[citation needed]
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That "ten Debye lengths" seems come from an uncited Hannes Alfven quote in the Debye length article
Hannes Alfvén pointed out that: "In a low density plasma, localized space charge regions may build up large potential drops over distances of the order of some tens of the Debye lengths. Such regions have been called electric double layers. An electric double layer is the simplest space charge distribution that gives a potential drop in the layer and a vanishing electric field on each side of the layer. In the laboratory, double layers have been studied for half a century, but their importance in cosmic plasmas has not been generally recognized."[citation needed]
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More about an inane 10th July 2009 reply by Sol88.
I point out that the EU proponents stupidly deny magnetic reconnection and give evidence for this in comets - Tail disconnection events
If the ion tail loading is sufficient, the magnetic field lines are squeezed together to the point where, at some distance along the ion tail, magnetic reconnection occurs. This leads to a "tail disconnection event".[64] This has been observed on a number of occasions, one notable event being recorded on 20 April 2007, when the ion tail of Encke's Comet was completely severed while the comet passed through a coronal mass ejection. This event was observed by the STEREO space probe.[65]
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Sol88 shows that he cannot understand English by relying with a lie about the electric comet expecting this and an irrelevant fantasy about electric currents in comet tails.

What is worse he displays ignorance about comets by linking to an abysmally ignorant, deluded and lying Thunderbolts cult web page. For example astronomers have known for a long time that comet nuclei have dark surfaces. It is mentioned throughout the literature on comets. But Stephen Smith stupidly describes a "discovery" of a black crust on Halley's Comet by the Giotto in 1996. Stephen Smith lies about "Solar radiation will not melt ice at that distance" of Hale-Bopp at the orbit of Uranus with the fantasy that icy moons must the same composition as comets and so should have sublimated away to nothing. He denies a little thing called time - the current composition of icy moons includes the escape of any sublimated gases from the moons laving only the material that did no sublimate and escape the much higher gravity of the moons!
 
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Sol88: Lies about the position of posters in this thread

Sol88 said:
I'm glad we now ALL agree there are electric currents involved and have moved away from
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1 February 2017 Sol88: Lies about the position of posters in this thread - we have not moved away from mainstream comets, especially toward your and Thunderbolts delusion about comets being rocks with electrical discharges.

The rational and knowledgeable posters in this thread agree that
  • comets consist of ices and dust,
  • jets are generated by sublimating ices,
  • coma and tails are dust and gases from that sublimation,
  • electric currents in comet coma have been studied.
  • and that this is irrelevant to your delusion, Sol88, that comets are rocks that were blown off the surface of the Earth by electrical discharges from a close by Venus in recent times.
 
tusenfem said:
Yes, there is a weird dichotomy in EU, they claim that mainstream does not discuss electric fields and electric currents (which is clearly wrong) but then do use all the (not) published mainstream papers as support for the EU.
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Another weird feature of EU. Here we have Sol88 ranting on about comets and double layers and yet he has no links to the EU or even "thunderdolts" citing the literature on comets and double layers. There are 41 abstracts for 'comet double layer'.
 
I have to be honest here; I am not a fan of Velikovskian woo. That might not have come across before, but I felt it was worth stating.
As far as Thornhill goes; the bloke is a liar and a fraud. End of story. I would love to see the idiot on here, trying to defend his woo; but that will never happen. He took too many kickings from Tim Thompson on Usenet, back in the day. I think the burke has learned from that. No chance that he is ever going to put his unscientific bobbins up against actual science, is there?
The bloke is a fraud, and anybody that believes his woo is probably certifiable.
 
Reality Check said:
1 February 2017 Sol88: Lies about the position of posters in this thread - we have not moved away from mainstream comets, especially toward your and Thunderbolts delusion about comets being rocks with electrical discharges.

The rational and knowledgeable posters in this thread agree that
  • comets consist of ices and dust,
  • jets are generated by sublimating ices,
  • coma and tails are dust and gases from that sublimation,
  • electric currents in comet coma have been studied.
  • and that this is irrelevant to your delusion, Sol88, that comets are rocks that were blown off the surface of the Earth by electrical discharges from a close by Venus in recent times.
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Ummmm...did I say that at any time? I said they are rocks NOT where they came from!
 
jonesdave116 said:
I have to be honest here; I am not a fan of Velikovskian woo. That might not have come across before, but I felt it was worth stating.
As far as Thornhill goes; the bloke is a liar and a fraud. End of story. I would love to see the idiot on here, trying to defend his woo; but that will never happen. He took too many kickings from Tim Thompson on Usenet, back in the day. I think the burke has learned from that. No chance that he is ever going to put his unscientific bobbins up against actual science, is there?
The bloke is a fraud, and anybody that believes his woo is probably certifiable.
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Ummm...never read the book, don't really know much about Velikovski and an ELECTRIC COMET is an electric comet and not a snowydirtyball or whatever the mainstream definition is morphing into! Deep fried ice cream was the last update i'd heard.
 
Reality Check said:
Another weird feature of EU. Here we have Sol88 ranting on about comets and double layers and yet he has no links to the EU or even "thunderdolts" citing the literature on comets and double layers. There are 41 abstracts for 'comet double layer'.
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Well done RC! :thumbsup:

Hadn't even searched myself for comets and double layers, should have been self evident for even those with a basic knowledge of plasma, electric fields, magnetic fields, charged particles and all that scary stuff that astronomers are terrified of!

Pick up any reputable book on astronomy flip to the index look up PLASMA! No listing? book my not even be worth wiping your behind on!

It's a fact that astronomers mathematicians HATE plasma!

Abstract
Problems connected with mechanisms for comet outbursts as well as for gamma-ray bursts remain open. Meantime, calculations show that an irradiation of a certain class of cometary nuclei, having high specific electric resistance, by intense fluxes of energetic protons and posi-tively charged ions with kinetic energies more than 1 MeV/nucleon, ejected from the Sun during strong solar flares, can produce a macroscopic high-voltage electric double layer with positive charge in the subsurface region of the nucleus, during irradiation time of the order of 10-100 hours at heliocentric distances around 1-10 AU. The maximum electric energy accumulated in such layer will be restricted by discharge potential of the layer material. For the comet nuclei with the typical radius of the order of 1-10 km the accumulated energy of such natural electric capacitor is comparable to the energy of large comet outbursts that are estimated on the basis of ground-based optical observations of comets. The impulse X-ray radiation anticipated from the high-voltage electric discharge of the capacitor may serve as an indicator of realization of the processes above considered. Therefore, space observations of comets and pseudo-asteroids of cometary origin, having brightness correlation with solar activity, using space X-ray observatories during strong solar flares are very interesting for the physics of comets as well as for high energy astrophysics.
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Brilliant! Those Russians sure are clever

Study shows most water in lunar soil generated by solar wind, not result of comet or meteorite impacts

(Phys.org) —A pair of researchers with the Sorbonne Universités, Muséum National d'Histoire Naturelle, has determined that most of the water in the soil on the surface of the moon was formed due to protons in the solar wind colliding with oxygen in lunar dust, rather than from comet or meteorite impacts. In their paper published in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, Alice Stephant and François Robert describe their study and the results they found.

Read more at: https://phys.org/news/2014-10-lunar-soil-solar-result-comet.html#jCp
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Mmmm....double layers!

l
 
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jonesdave116 said:
I am not sure where Sol is going with this. If he likes, I could dig around to find the earliest references I can find to electric currents in the comae of comets. Or the modelling/ prediction thereof. One thing I am sure of; they will exist, and they will pre-date his Velikovskian cult's intellectually fraudulent pronouncements on comets.
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I think you can now see were I'm going with it, JD116?

Getting harder and harder with the data to defend the deep fried ice cream model! :D
 
On the origin of striae in cometary dust tails

It has been argued by Sekanina that the so-called striae or pseudo-synchronic bands observed in the dust tails of several comets are a consequence of the sudden disruption of elongated or chainlike parent grains in the tail. The present paper offers a specific mechanism for this disruption process, that is, electrostatic disruption following sudden charging to high electrostatic potentials. Assuming the grains to be prolate spheroids, it is shown that they can attain potentials in the range -60 V to -300 V when subject to energetic electron beams (1-10 keV). The energy source for these electrons is the interaction of the solar wind with the cometary ionosphere producing currents and associated electrostatic double layers.
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Large amplitude ion-acoustic rarefactive and compressive solitons and double layers in a dusty plasma with finite ion temperature

Abstract
Large amplitude ion-acoustic solitons and double layers are studied using Sagdeev's pseudo potential technique in a collisionless unmagnetized plasma consisting of hot and cold Maxwellian electrons, warm adiabatic ions, and heavily charged massive dust grains. It is found that for the selected set of plasma parameters, the system can support both solitons and double layers in the presence of negative as well as positive dust in the plasma. Further we have also investigated the ranges of parameters for simultaneous existence of both rarefactive and compressive supersonic solitons. The effects of dust concentration and ion temperature on the amplitude and Mach number of the double layer have also been studied. Our findings may be helpful in understanding the formation of non-linear structures, specially the solitons and double layers in space plasma, such as: in interstellar clouds, circumstellar clouds, planetary rings, comets, cometary tails, asteroid zones, auroral plasma, magnetospheric plasma, pulsars, and other astronomical environments and laboratory plasmas.
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The protonopause-an ion composition boundary in the magnetosheath of comets, Venus and Mars

Abstract
The interaction of the solar wind with heavy ions continuously produced by ionization from a background neutral gas cloud is studied in the framework of a collisionless 2D bi-ion fluid model in which the motion of both ion species is coupled exclusively by electromagnetic forces. It is shown that a magnetosheath plasma boundary is formed which has signatures of a bi-ion double layer separating the plasma mixture of protons and heavies from the purely heavy ion plasma. At the self generated potential jump the solar wind protons are stopped and deflected whereas the heavy ions have enough energy to penetrate it. This discontinuity, called here protonopause, is formed in a region where the heavy ion density becomes comparable to the solar wind proton density. We suggest that the protonopause reflects main features of the hitherto unexplained plasma boundaries at comets (cometopause, pile-up boundary), Venus (rarefraction wave, intermediate transition) and Mars (planetopause, mass-loading boundary).
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Electric fields and cold electrons in the vicinity of Comet Halley

Abstract
The structure and dynamics of the plasma environment on the sunward side of Comet Halley are investigated using measurements during the Vega inbound encounters from a double probe antenna and two Langmuir probes (the APV-V experiment), within a cometocentric distance of about 850,000 km. Based upon the behavior of the electric fields and the cold electrons, three regions can be identified in the cometosheath (in particular during the Vega 1 approach): transition layers are passed through at about 780,000 km (R1) and about 360,000 km (R2). The outer cometosheath (near and beyond R1) is characterized by large-scale variations in the cold electron density and the electric field, peaking at about 1 mHz. The R2 crossing is detected in the plasma wave data as enhanced fluctuations at about 15 mHz. About 25,000 km downstream of R2, the spacecraft traverses a current layer (thickness about 10,000 km) indicated by a sharp gradient in the dc electric field and the cold electron density. The continuous, relatively rapid increase in the intensity of plasma waves begins at a cometocentric distance of about 200,000 km. Simultaneously, the cold electron density stars growing in accordance with the r/2 law. In the cometary plasma region, some interesting features are examined, such as a current layer passed by Vega 1 at 54,000 km and sudden ion density enhancements observed by Vega 2 at about 35,000 km. On several occasions, the APV-V measurements are heavily influenced by dust particles striking the spacecraft structure. It is concluded that the dust particles are strongly charged and partially coupled to cometary plasmas (or vice versa).
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The role of particle beams and electrical currents in the plasma universe

Abstract
Cosmic plasma physics and the concept of the universe is in a state of rapid revision. This change started with in situ measurements of plasmas in earth's ionosphere, cometary atmospheres, and planetary magnetospheres; the transition of knowledge from laboratory experiments to astrophysical phenomena; discoveries of helical and filamentary plasma structures in the Galaxy and double radio sources; and the particle simulation of plasmas not accessible to in situ measurement. Because of these, Birkeland (field-aligned) currents, double layers, and magnetic-field-aligned electric fields are now known to be far more important to the evolution of space plasma, including the acceleration of charged particles to high energies, than previously thought. This paper reviews the observational evidence for a plasma universe threaded by Birkeland currents and particle beams.
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Oh...ummmm ELECTRIC UNIVERSE stuff :eek:
 
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