The Theory of Relativity will begin to fall apart in 2016/2017 - Part II

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We all understand your little graphic, Bjarne. There's nothing wrong with it, other than the fact that it shows the moon going round the earth only a couple of times a year when it actually does so 13 times. It doesn't alter the fact that the moon keeps one face turned permanently to the earth, and therefore someone on the moon would see the earth staying in the same place in the sky all the time.

Try to understand this.
 
Reality Check said:
17 July 2018 Bjarne: A lie that we would see the Earth orbiting the Moon from the Moon when we would see the Earth at a single position.

The Moon is tidally locked to the Earth. The Moon always presents the same face to the Earth. Anyone on the Moon sees the Earth in roughly the same position in the sky, i.e. does not see any orbit. Of course anyone on he Moon would have more than 2 brain cells and already know that it is the Moon that is orbiting the Earth.
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You don't know what this mean ""relative to the starry sky"" do you ?
 
Pixel42 said:
We all understand your little graphic, Bjarne. There's nothing wrong with it, other than the fact that it shows the moon going round the earth only a couple of times a year when it actually does so 13 times. It doesn't alter the fact that the moon keeps one face turned permanently to the earth, and therefore someone on the moon would see the earth staying in the same place in the sky all the time.

Try to understand this.
Click to expand...

You don't know what this mean ""relative to the starry sky"" do you ?
 
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Reality Check said:
17 July 2018 Bjarne: A lie that someone living at the poles of the Moon will see the Earth is orbiting the Moon

Anyone at the poles of the Moon will either not see the Earth at all or see it in one position at the sky. They will know that the Moon is orbiting the Earth with a face pointed at the Earth.

This is a person who thinks he has a better theory than relativity and yet does not know a basic fact about the Moon :eek:!
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You don't know what this mean: ""relative to the starry sky"" do you ?

Let me make it a 2½% little more differcult
For a person living at a (certain place) at the moon, - The earth will looks like; - it is orbiting the moon, relative to the starry sky,.....
Did the chain went off again ?
Yes I believe so, - yes I do.
I am terrible sorry I cannot help you more than this, even you is my best friend.
 
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Pixel42 said:
We all understand your little graphic, Bjarne. There's nothing wrong with it, other than the fact that it shows the moon going round the earth only a couple of times a year when it actually does so 13 times. It doesn't alter the fact that the moon keeps one face turned permanently to the earth, and therefore someone on the moon would see the earth staying in the same place in the sky all the time.

Try to understand this.
Click to expand...

Try to understand that the rotation of Earth is causing the illusion that the moon is orbiting the Earth every 24 hours. - However relative to the starry sky, - the moon is "orbiting" once every 29 days.
In the same way, - if you are living at the moon, - forget the moon is not rotating, - relative to the starry sky, you will see the Earth is orbiting the moon once each 29 days
Capito ?
In Denmark intelligent children learns this is the nursery
 
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Bjarne said:
You don't know what this mean ""relative to the starry sky"" do you ?
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You added that phrase after I replied to your post, so I'm only now trying to understand what you mean by it.

Are you finally conceding that, on the moon, the earth will stay in the same position in the sky whilst the stars rotate around it, as people have been telling you for days?

Your "How can a 180° difference, - be "the same position"" comment suggests you're still confused. The earth stays in the same position in the moon's sky but the sun moves (a day on the moon lasts 29 of our days, I.e. a lunar month, think about it and you'll see why). Eclipses occur when the sun, earth and moon line up.
 
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Bjarne said:
Try to understand that the rotation of Earth is causing the illusion that the moon is orbiting the Earth every 24 hours. - However relative to the starry sky, - the moon is "orbiting" once every 29 days.
In the same way, - if you are living at the moon, - forget the moon is not rotating, - relative to the starry sky, you will see the Earth is orbiting the moon once each 29 days
Capito ?
In Denmark intelligent children learns this is the nursery
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If all you're saying is that what the motions of astronomical bodies look like depends on where you're standing but you can always work out what's really going on, that's what everyone else has been trying to explain to you. You're the only one who's been arguing that there is some absolute frame of reference, everybody else already understands that motion is always relative.
 
Pixel42 said:
You added that phrase after I replied to your post, so I'm only now trying to understand what you mean by it.

Are you finally conceding that, on the moon, the earth will stay in the same position in the sky whilst the stars rotate around it, as people have been telling you for days?

Your "How can a 180° difference, - be "the same position"" comment suggests you're still confused. The earth stays in the same position in the moon's sky but the sun moves (a day on the moon lasts 29 of our days, I.e. a lunar month, think about it and you'll see why). Eclipses occur when the sun, earth and moon line up.
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I get the impression with him that he thinks that if you stood on the pole, facing the same direction, the earth would rotate around you

Of course the exact opposite is true, if you walked out your 'front door' at the pole and the earth was above a certain feature- say a particular mountain peak, it would remain pretty much motionless above that peak, while the stars rotated around, with a particular star coming back to the same place in around 29 days
 
Dabop said:
I get the impression with him that he thinks that if you stood on the pole, facing the same direction, the earth would rotate around you

Of course the exact opposite is true, if you walked out your 'front door' at the pole and the earth was above a certain feature- say a particular mountain peak, it would remain pretty much motionless above that peak, while the stars rotated around, with a particular star coming back to the same place in around 29 days
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His argument implied that the Moon’s pole rotates relative to the Moon.
 
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Bjarne has just realized his mistake, but instead of admitting it, he is backpaddling, editing earlier posts, and generally putting out smoke.

Sad show.

Hans
 
Bjarne said:
Try to understand that the rotation of Earth is causing the illusion that the moon is orbiting the Earth every 24 hours. - However relative to the starry sky, - the moon is "orbiting" once every 29 days.
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We all know this, Bjarne. However, you are still wrong. If you must lecture people (who don't need your lecture), at least get your facts right:

Relative to the star background, the moon orbits earth in about 27.322 days (a sidereal month). Relative to the sun (which is the way we tend to observe it on Earth), it orbits in about 29.530 days (a synodic month).

In the same way, - if you are living at the moon, - forget the moon is not rotating, - relative to the starry sky, you will see the Earth is orbiting the moon once each 29 days
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No. The moon is rotating. It rotates once in 27.322 days. Which means that Earth will always be visible in nearly the same direction, while the starry sky rotates in 27.322 days, and the Sun in 29.530.

A good source for all this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbit_of_the_Moon
(To which I already refered you over a month ago.)

In Denmark intelligent children learns this is the nursery
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Do they also learn to check their facts before they make a fool of themselves?

Hans
 
Pixel42 said:
You added that phrase after I replied to your post, so I'm only now trying to understand what you mean by it.
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Good

Are you finally conceding that, on the moon, the earth will stay in the same position in the sky whilst the stars rotate around it, as people have been telling you for days?
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So now you also believe all stars is orbiting the Moon ?

Your "How can a 180° difference, - be "the same position"" comment suggests you're still confused. The earth stays in the same position in the moon's sky but the sun moves (a day on the moon lasts 29 of our days, I.e. a lunar month, think about it and you'll see why). Eclipses occur when the sun, earth and moon line up.
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Irrelevant
Regardless whether you speak about the moon "orbiting" the Earth, or the Earth "orbiting" the Moon, - it makes no sense, unless you in both cases mean relative to the starry sky.

So as your hopefully and finally now should be able to understand is that a person living on the Moon can with the exact same right say that the Earth is orbiting the moon (relative to the starry sky) - as a idiot on Earth would say that the that the Moon is orbiting the Earth.

Almost all cows know nothing of this is true, the moon cannot orbit the Earth while the Earth orbits the moon, - in both cases relative to the starry sky. - Something must be wrong RIGHT ? - and that something is that none of these 2 objects are really orbiting each other, - both are orbiting the Sun, the Earth is not flat, and the Sun is also not orbiting the Earth.
 
MRC_Hans said:
We all know this, Bjarne. However, you are still wrong. If you must lecture people (who don't need your lecture), at least get your facts right:

Relative to the star background, the moon orbits earth in about 27.322 days (a sidereal month). Relative to the sun (which is the way we tend to observe it on Earth), it orbits in about 29.530 days (a synodic month).
Click to expand...
+/-1 a day or 2 is total irrelavant

No. The moon is rotating.
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BS, the moon is NOT rotating.

It rotates once in 27.322 days.
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BS, the moon is NOT rotating.

Which means that Earth will always be visible in nearly the same direction, while the starry sky rotates in 27.322 days, and the Sun in 29.530.
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BS, the moon is NOT rotating. Soon my pie will begin to boil if you keep saying such nonsense.
I was 7½ when I understood the difference between rotation and orbiting, - I guess that a problem for you to understand the difference right ?
 
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Mojo said:
His argument implied that the Moon’s pole rotates relative to the Moon.
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BS
from the pole of the Moon you can always see the Earth, and from here it will indeed look like the Earth is orbiting the Moon, - relative to the starry sky.
 
Pixel42 said:
If all you're saying is that what the motions of astronomical bodies look like depends on where you're standing but you can always work out what's really going on, that's what everyone else has been trying to explain to you. You're the only one who's been arguing that there is some absolute frame of reference, everybody else already understands that motion is always relative.
Click to expand...

I am saying that:
  1. an observer on earth will see the moon orbiting the earth.
  2. an observer on moon will see the earth orbiting the moon
  3. both relative to the starry sky
  4. both regardless whether the observer (on the north pole) is rotating or not.

The logical point is both cannot be right, - none of these are really orbiting each other.
Both are victims for an illusion
So are many here at the forum too.
 
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Bjarne said:
I am saying that:
  1. an observer on earth will see the moon orbiting the earth.
  2. an observer on moon will see the earth orbiting the moon
  3. both relative to the starry sky
  4. both regardless whether the observer (on the north pole) is rotating or not.

The logical point is both cannot be right, - none of these are really orbiting each other.
Both are victims for an illusion
So are many here at the forum too.
Click to expand...

Congratulations, you've just failed celestial mechanics 101.
 
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