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10th September 2018, 05:03 PM | #1 |
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Atheists destroy churches, attack the faithful
State Sponsored atheism rears its ugly head again.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/ampht...d79_story.html
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10th September 2018, 05:23 PM | #2 |
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Yeah, it is. But the idea that you think that this is characteristic of atheism rather than an activity of the totalitarian government of China is even more appalling.
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10th September 2018, 05:40 PM | #3 |
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10th September 2018, 05:50 PM | #4 |
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Interesting. Thinking "that this is characteristic of atheism rather than an activity of the totalitarian government of China" is MORE appalling than
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10th September 2018, 05:54 PM | #5 |
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10th September 2018, 05:56 PM | #6 |
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Careful, your bias is showing. We've gone over this before. First, totalitarian governments crack down on everything, not just religion, and second, they do it for political reasons and not in the name of atheism.
Why am I even bothering to engage here? I know exactly how it's going to turn out. |
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10th September 2018, 06:01 PM | #7 |
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My bias? I am simply quoting the article and your post where you said that Thinking "that this is characteristic of atheism rather than an activity of the totalitarian government of China" is MORE appalling than destroying the Churches and interning a million people.
And doing it in the name of Atheism. |
10th September 2018, 06:01 PM | #8 |
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10th September 2018, 06:06 PM | #9 |
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10th September 2018, 06:08 PM | #10 |
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Thinking is a faith hazard. |
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10th September 2018, 06:15 PM | #11 |
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10th September 2018, 06:22 PM | #12 |
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I'm not surprised that Trump's friend President Xi Jinping is doing all this. Maybe he's doing this because Christians rape children.
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1. He'd never do that. 2. Okay but he's not currently doing it. 3. Okay but he's not currently technically doing it. 4. Okay but everyone does it. 5. He's doing it, we can't stop him, no point in complaining about it. 6. We all knew he was going to do it which... makes it okay somehow. 7. It's perfectly fine that's he's doing it. |
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10th September 2018, 06:28 PM | #13 |
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So take that quantum equation and recalculate the wave by a factor of hoopty doo! The answer is not my problem, it's yours. Three Word Story Wisdom |
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10th September 2018, 06:29 PM | #14 |
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10th September 2018, 06:32 PM | #15 |
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10th September 2018, 06:34 PM | #16 |
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Again, this will be ignored, but anyway...
Your own quote says:
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ETA: Stuff it, here you are: https://www.google.com/search?q=sini...ient=firefox-b |
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...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015 |
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10th September 2018, 06:35 PM | #17 |
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10th September 2018, 06:37 PM | #18 |
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Look, TBD, we get it. We understand that you view the existence of atheism as a personal attack on you and your worldview, and on the God you say you worship and revere. It's not. The cited incidents are an attack on innocent people by a totalitarian government, not an attack on Christians by atheists.
Are you worried that we scary atheists are going to completely wipe out your church and kill your god? Not going to happen. You can't claim to be a persecuted minority when you're in a majority across the world. We should be more worried about you. After all, there are many, many more documented examples of religious people attacking and forcefully converting people to their religion than there are of atheists forcibly deconverting the religious. We should be more scared of you than you are of us. |
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10th September 2018, 06:38 PM | #19 |
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Yes, I am well aware of what it means. It would appear that a driving force of the officially atheist state is to force people to become atheists.
As noted above, it is a defining characteristic of such atheists states. Atheist state and pogroms go hand in hand, take a look at the USSR and gozathiesm. |
10th September 2018, 06:45 PM | #20 |
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Oh it’s an attack by atheists on not just Christians, but Muslims too. And while I appreciate a good whataboutism, since the beginning of the 20th century the overwhelming number of pogroms have been by atheist states like China and the USSR. Indeed some would say that Atheists have industrialized it.
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10th September 2018, 06:48 PM | #21 |
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No, that's precisely NOT what they said. They were very clear in their goal: Sinicization - forcing religions to be CHINESE, i.e. follow the Communist Party rules. Nowhere did they state that it was the Atheist Party of China. It's the Communist Party of China.
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Also, for the majority of the existence of the USSR it was ruled not by atheists but by the god-in-human-form-worshippers of Stalin. Heaven help you if Stalin turned his face from you. Not only did you disappear, you got airbrushed out of photos like Donny's inauguration crowd gaps. It was a personality cult...just like you see today with Trumpites. They don't worship the god you believe in; they worship Trump, and he worships himself. |
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...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015 |
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10th September 2018, 06:53 PM | #22 |
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Wait, wait, wait... you think that Sinicization means follow the communist party lead? That is absurd.
The Orthodox religion “thrived” in between episodes of mass murder? Little background for you https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pers...e_Soviet_Union |
10th September 2018, 06:56 PM | #23 |
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Excellent, I'd vote for that.
I'd even be advocating christian-conversion camps and therapy. Nobody's ever tried anything like that, so who know - it might even work. If people are stupid enough to believe in invisible fairies, they'll believe anything. Given christians' 2000-year history of causing violence against non-christians, the Chinese are behaving quite sensibly. Cut the problem off at the root. Damn right it is. What a waste - they could be selling them. |
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10th September 2018, 06:57 PM | #24 |
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Uh...it's what it means. Cultural imperialism. Like America exports its culture globally.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religi...e_Soviet_Union
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...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015 |
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10th September 2018, 07:02 PM | #25 |
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Dup.
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...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015 |
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10th September 2018, 07:06 PM | #26 |
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10th September 2018, 07:09 PM | #27 |
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...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015 |
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10th September 2018, 07:11 PM | #28 |
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But I was told it “thrived”. Why would they have to reopen churches if they were thriving? Hmm, that is a puzzler.
I guess they really “thrived” under Nikita too huh. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USSR...ign_(1958–1964) No, they were busy trying to achieve an atheist state. Just like China is doing now with their latest atheist crackdown. |
10th September 2018, 07:12 PM | #29 |
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There's more on that page. Here's a fun thing to try: Go to that link, press Ctrl-F and type "atheism". See how many times that word appears on the page that defines sinicization. Okay, I'll tell you. It's zero. The word "atheism" appears zero times on the Wikipedia page defining sinicization. |
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10th September 2018, 07:14 PM | #30 |
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...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015 |
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10th September 2018, 07:15 PM | #31 |
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10th September 2018, 07:21 PM | #32 |
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State terrorism by the authoritarian Chinese.
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10th September 2018, 07:28 PM | #33 |
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Cool! I notice that other fella said it didn’t appear in the article, but while I enjoy reading articles, I direct your attention to the linked article in the op. Let’s take a gander.
“The campaign corresponds with a drive to “Sinicize” religion by demanding loyalty to the officially atheist Communist Party and eliminating any challenge to its power over people’s lives.” There is that officially atheist word we were searching for! |
10th September 2018, 07:32 PM | #34 |
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10th September 2018, 07:37 PM | #35 |
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10th September 2018, 07:47 PM | #36 |
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10th September 2018, 07:57 PM | #37 |
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Right. The campaign to sinicize religion. To make religion conform to Chinese norms. Which, in an authoritarian state means conforming to the wishes of the government. They're not cracking down because the churches are religious, they're cracking down because the churches are dissidents. And they're doing that not because they are atheist, they are doing that because that's what totalitarian governments do - they eliminate dissent.
Here it is again, from Wikipedia:
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Like the Soviets, the goal of China is not to destroy religion, it is to assimilate it and use it as a tool of the state. |
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10th September 2018, 08:17 PM | #38 |
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TBD is doing a bit of trolling here, but there is a point to be made. In fact, there are a couple of points. I can think of two, one of which I'm sure he will agree with, and the other, possibly, but perhaps with not so much enthusiasm.
First, there are a lot of people on this board who act like the United States is a Christian theocracy where non-Christians, especially atheists, are a persecuted minority. That's bunk. The government in China is showing what real persecution looks like, and it doesn't look like anything that's happening here in the US. (That's the one I'm sure TBD agrees with, although I will let him correct me if I'm wrong.) The second is that we have seen throughout history that any time the government gets to dictate an official policy about religious practice, things really suck for anyone who doesn't go along with the official policy. This is true whether, as in most of history, the official policy specifies a particular style of worshipping a specific god or, as in the modern era, where the official policy is to recognize no god at all and forbid or restrict worship of one, or more, or all, sorts of gods. It took until the 20th century to have officially atheist, as opposed to merely secular, governments, and everyplace where they have existed, things have sucked. The lesson ought to be to demand religious freedom everywhere, and not encroach on that freedom if it can at all be avoided. Unfortunately, some people seem to think that since atheism isn't a religion, somehow policies that promote atheism aren't restricting religious freedom. |
10th September 2018, 08:25 PM | #39 |
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All this is true, but I really do think that TBD believes that religion is under attack by organised atheism, and that the Stalinist government of the USSR and today's Chinese government are examples of this. I think he'd be pretty hard-pressed to provide very many additional examples - the government of Pol Pot is the only one that comes immediately to my mind - but that has never stopped him before.
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So take that quantum equation and recalculate the wave by a factor of hoopty doo! The answer is not my problem, it's yours. Three Word Story Wisdom |
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10th September 2018, 08:35 PM | #40 |
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