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Tags Brilliant Light Power , free energy , Randell Mills

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Old 26th December 2018, 05:04 AM   #3281
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
Quote:
The claim is that it is. The corona is very hot, and the claim is that that's due to hydrinos, rather than the commonly accepted explanations of soundwaves caused by the photosphere, or the interaction between the magnetic flux and the corona.
Where is that claim made and supported?

I haven’t encountered it outside of the “Hydrinos and the Bible” Creationist book being written. I thought they’d made that up but if Mills made the claim I’d love to direct them to that resource.
A few days' ago, markie, trying to be an astronomer (he really must stop, it's embarrassing), posted this:

Originally Posted by markie View Post
Quote:
Mathematics which you clearly understand and can answer questions on?


Really?

Can you please provide references, for the “anomalous energetic events ... on the sun’s surface ”?
I have in mind the chromosphere, particularly at times of solar flare. The chromosphere is immediately above the photosphere and experiences a huge temperature gradient from (relatively) cool (cooler than the photosphere and where CO can exist) in the lowest layer to very hot in the outer. It is there in the chromosphere where the bright spots (bright in visible to soft xRay) occur just preceding and during solar flares. While it is thought that the main energy driver is magnetic fields and associated accelerated electrons, there are lots of unanswered questions about how this can translate to the distribution of the spectra observed.

The parallels to the SunCell are apparent to me, namely high electron flux and the presence of atomic H.

From Wiki: It is not yet fully understood what phenomenon causes the temperature of the chromosphere to paradoxically increase further from the Sun's interior. However, it seems likely to be explained, partially or totally, by magnetic reconnection.
Sure, it's not Mills making the claim, and isn't - literally - about the corona being very hot (though one never knows with markie), but it's close.
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Old 26th December 2018, 05:07 AM   #3282
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Originally Posted by Matthew Cline View Post
Wait, I thought that hydrino formation wasn't supposed to take place in plasma because it requires neutral hydrogen atoms. Now plasma isn't necessarily completely ionized, but if plasma which is "beyond white hot" isn't so highly ionized as to prevent hydrino formation, why isn't the surface of the sun also a place where hydrinos would form?
The reason why Mills has taken so long to find a commercially viable design comes down to how electrodynamics of plasma can be designed to support the hydrino reaction. It was only in late 2013 that Mills discovered that a characteristic of arc plasmas called Negative Differential Resistance was an important pre-condition for sustaining the reaction. The hydrino reaction is ionizing, meaning that the HOH catalyst will ordinarily lose its outer electrons. This generates additional current in the plasma. If the plasma has a positive resistance, then increasing the current raises the voltage potential and therefore is unfavorable to the formation of subsequent hydrino reactions. However, if you create a NDR in the plasma (by supplying high current, in the neighborhood of 10k amps), then consider what happens to the voltage as the ionization-generated current is applied. Per Ohm's law, the increased current causes the voltage to drop! Instead of a negative feedback loop, there is now a positive feedback loop supporting the formation of hydrinos. Under an NDR-containing arc plasma, the hydrino reaction becomes explosive. Before 2013/2014, none of Mills' designs could be commercialized because they were inherently rate limiting.

Since 2014, Mills' engineering efforts have been focused on containing and moderating arc plasma-based reactions involving low-voltage, high-current mixed with H2 gas fuel and trace amounts of HOH catalyst.
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Old 26th December 2018, 05:13 AM   #3283
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Originally Posted by optiongeek View Post
The only catalyst of interest for the past few years has been HOH - nascent water (i.e. lacking Hydrogen bonds). At various times, some of the reaction inputs have been considered non public information because they were useful for providing the trace amounts of oxygen required to form the HOH catalyst in the extreme environments in which the reaction have been operating. As the reactor design has evolved from extreme high temps (liquid silver) to moderate temps (liquid gallium), the nature of the input providing the trace oxygen seems to have evolved as well. At the moment, it seems to be some sort of gallium oxide. As someone focused on maintaining IP rights to his process, Mills seems to be strategic about what parts of his process he makes public, while widely disseminating the underlying science.
My hilite.

I got curious. I wondered if an established supplier to scientific labs - like fisher scientific - would have any nascent water in its chemicals catalog. It doesn't.

Wikipedia has an entry of nascent hydrogen, but not nascent water.

I don't have training as a chemist (in the scientific sense), so I can't really check university (preferably grad) level chemistry textbooks, but from the lack of hits I got with DuckDuckGo, I doubt that it's mentioned in many.

Maybe it's mentioned in Mills' BBofBB?
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Old 26th December 2018, 05:20 AM   #3284
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Originally Posted by optiongeek View Post
The reason why Mills has taken so long to find a commercially viable design comes down to how electrodynamics of plasma can be designed to support the hydrino reaction. It was only in late 2013 that Mills discovered that a characteristic of arc plasmas called Negative Differential Resistance was an important pre-condition for sustaining the reaction. The hydrino reaction is ionizing, meaning that the HOH catalyst will ordinarily lose its outer electrons. This generates additional current in the plasma. If the plasma has a positive resistance, then increasing the current raises the voltage potential and therefore is unfavorable to the formation of subsequent hydrino reactions. However, if you create a NDR in the plasma (by supplying high current, in the neighborhood of 10k amps), then consider what happens to the voltage as the ionization-generated current is applied. Per Ohm's law, the increased current causes the voltage to drop! Instead of a negative feedback loop, there is now a positive feedback loop supporting the formation of hydrinos. Under an NDR-containing arc plasma, the hydrino reaction becomes explosive. Before 2013/2014, none of Mills' designs could be commercialized because they were inherently rate limiting.

Since 2014, Mills' engineering efforts have been focused on containing and moderating arc plasma-based reactions involving low-voltage, high-current mixed with H2 gas fuel and trace amounts of HOH catalyst.
My hilite.

All very sciency ... but for the inclusion of unicorns HOH catalyst.

And yet, according to both Mills and markie, the early universe had no difficulty whatsoever in creating vast quantities of hydrinos (what we see today as dark matter)!

"the HOH catalyst will ordinarily lose its outer electrons" - how many "outer electrons" did it have before it was "ionized"?
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Old 26th December 2018, 05:26 AM   #3285
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
Where is that claim made and supported?

I haven’t encountered it outside of the “Hydrinos and the Bible” Creationist book being written. I thought they’d made that up but if Mills made the claim I’d love to direct them to that resource.
Read entry 7 in Holverstott's summary of Mills' theory

I'm sure one of our resident Mills supporters could provide a page number to the relevant section in Mills' book.
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Old 26th December 2018, 05:29 AM   #3286
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Originally Posted by LongFuzzy View Post
Wasn't there some super secret catalyst that you needed to make the whole thing work? Which was secret to make sure nobody could reproduce or steal his 'invention'?
Yes, there was.

My recollection is that Mills published the catalyst formula for the CIHT cell for a short time, but withdrew it.
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Old 26th December 2018, 05:34 AM   #3287
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Originally Posted by JeanTate View Post
My hilite.

I got curious. I wondered if an established supplier to scientific labs - like fisher scientific - would have any nascent water in its chemicals catalog. It doesn't.

Wikipedia has an entry of nascent hydrogen, but not nascent water.

I don't have training as a chemist (in the scientific sense), so I can't really check university (preferably grad) level chemistry textbooks, but from the lack of hits I got with DuckDuckGo, I doubt that it's mentioned in many.

Maybe it's mentioned in Mills' BBofBB?
I'm not a chemist either, but my understanding is that the term nascent water refers to water in a vapor. I found that a more useful term to research is hydrogen bond - particularly as it pertains to water. To get nascent water, the hydrogen bond must be eliminated, which can be done in energetic environments. You wouldn't order nascent water from a supplier, you create it in an arc-plasma.

Last edited by optiongeek; 26th December 2018 at 05:37 AM.
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Old 26th December 2018, 05:53 AM   #3288
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Originally Posted by JeanTate View Post
"the HOH catalyst will ordinarily lose its outer electrons" - how many "outer electrons" did it have before it was "ionized"?
Non-Chemist answer but in line with Mills' description of the reaction: Oxygen has four electrons in its outer most (2p) shell. Two are shared with the Hydrogen atoms, leaving two available for ionization.
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Old 26th December 2018, 06:17 AM   #3289
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Originally Posted by optiongeek View Post
I'm not a chemist either, but my understanding is that the term nascent water refers to water in a vapor.
Vaporous technology uses vapor.

Originally Posted by JeanTate View Post
I got curious. I wondered if an established supplier to scientific labs - like fisher scientific - would have any nascent water in its chemicals catalog. It doesn't.

Wikipedia has an entry of nascent hydrogen, but not nascent water.

From that Wikipedia article:

Originally Posted by Wikipedia
Nascent hydrogen is a concept that was once invoked to explain dissolving-metal reactions, such as the Clemmensen reduction and the Bouveault–Blanc reduction. Since organic compounds do not react with hydrogen gas, which is the normal form of this element, a special, highly reactive state, of hydrogen was postulated to explain this class of hydrogenation. It is now well understood that such reactions take place at the metal surface via one-electron reduction, and the concept of nascent hydrogen is discounted, even ridiculed.[1][2]
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Old 26th December 2018, 06:23 AM   #3290
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Forgot my resolution to avoid this slow motion car crash.

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Old 26th December 2018, 06:29 AM   #3291
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Originally Posted by optiongeek View Post
I'm not a chemist either, but my understanding is that the term nascent water refers to water in a vapor. I found that a more useful term to research is hydrogen bond - particularly as it pertains to water. To get nascent water, the hydrogen bond must be eliminated, which can be done in energetic environments. You wouldn't order nascent water from a supplier, you create it in an arc-plasma.
W.D.Clinger and (well, now deleted) have addressed this, um, dog's breakfast.

If you mean water vapor (or water in the gaseous state), why not simply say so? What's the point of using made-up words when perfectly good, ordinary (and technical) words exist? To sound more mysterious and sciency? If so, who do you think you're fooling? ISF members?!?
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Old 26th December 2018, 06:34 AM   #3292
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Originally Posted by optiongeek View Post
Non-Chemist answer but in line with Mills' description of the reaction: Oxygen has four electrons in its outer most (2p) shell. Two are shared with the Hydrogen atoms, leaving two available for ionization.
Do you really, honestly believe this sort of thing?

If you add energy to water molecules - in their gaseous state, i.e. vapor - by heating them, say, they will first dissociate (i.e. the O-H bonds will be broken), not ionize.

Yet another example of Mills', um, shaky grasp of well-understood phenomena?
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Old 26th December 2018, 06:37 AM   #3293
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Read entry 7 in Holverstott's summary of Mills' theory

I'm sure one of our resident Mills supporters could provide a page number to the relevant section in Mills' book.
OMG!

Assuming what Holverstott writes is for real (i.e. not something he made up entirely by himself), that page is so replete with nonsense it would surely win the Ignobel awards many times over.

Thanks for the source; I will likely use it/quote from it quite a bit over the next 38 (68) days ...
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Old 26th December 2018, 07:02 AM   #3294
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Originally Posted by JeanTate View Post
As of today, we have to wait a mere 39 (69) days before the world has concrete, independent, evidence of the existence of a hydrino-powered generator.

In these daily countdown posts, I'll take the opportunity to reflect on the last 30 years of promises, and on why Mills is almost certainly not right, from many perspectives.

Today: if Mills were right, China would not have to import such vast amounts of oil (and the DPRK - North Korea - would not need to spend so much effort on getting around sanctions, to import oil). For at least the last decade.

Why?

Because - according to markie et al. - Mills' publications (the BBofBB, the many papers, etc) hide nothing. China has an extraordinarily strong incentive to find sources of energy other than oil and coal (likewise North Korea). They also have a very large number of well-qualified scientists, engineers, etc, and have had so for at least a decade. Did none of them ever read any of Mills' works? Did none of them ever wonder if there was at least some grain of reality there? And so on. The situation in North Korea is different, for example, the incentive to find alternative sources of energy is likely far stronger. However, the result is pretty much the same: if there were some reality to Mills' fantasies, either China or North Korea (or both) would not, today, need so much in the way of oil imports.
As of today, we have to wait a mere 38 (68) days before the world has concrete, independent, evidence of the existence of a hydrino-powered generator.

Another reason why Mills is almost certainly not right: no one with appropriate scientific training takes his claims seriously.

Initially, there was some interest in his reported findings, attempts to reproduce the experimental results (no such independent, verifiable replication has been reported), and critical examination of his reported theory (to put it kindly, it was found to be nonsense). No doubt some who looked into this also seriously considered how the nonsense could be turned into at least interesting, if not fully robust, alternatives; as I read the literature, some of these excursions have been published (thanks to optiongeek, markie, and UncertainH for your cites). Yet nothing has come of this.

Mills' fans sometimes gnash their teeth and wail that it's all a giant conspiracy by Establishment Science, to suppress the truth or to not threaten jobs, grants, etc. For some individual scientists, this may have some veracity; for Science as a whole it's so woefully ignorant that one wonders if any such fans even know any scientist, let alone have scientific training. For an anecdote, one of my faves is Stephen Jay Gould ... he accepted as a student someone who was an avowed creationist (or am I mis-remembering?).
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Old 26th December 2018, 09:18 AM   #3295
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Originally Posted by optiongeek View Post
The reason why Mills has taken so long to find a commercially viable design comes down to how electrodynamics of plasma can be designed to support the hydrino reaction. It was only in late 2013 that Mills discovered that a characteristic of arc plasmas called Negative Differential Resistance was an important pre-condition for sustaining the reaction. The hydrino reaction is ionizing, meaning that the HOH catalyst will ordinarily lose its outer electrons. This generates additional current in the plasma. If the plasma has a positive resistance, then increasing the current raises the voltage potential and therefore is unfavorable to the formation of subsequent hydrino reactions. However, if you create a NDR in the plasma (by supplying high current, in the neighborhood of 10k amps), then consider what happens to the voltage as the ionization-generated current is applied. Per Ohm's law, the increased current causes the voltage to drop! Instead of a negative feedback loop, there is now a positive feedback loop supporting the formation of hydrinos. Under an NDR-containing arc plasma, the hydrino reaction becomes explosive. Before 2013/2014, none of Mills' designs could be commercialized because they were inherently rate limiting.

Since 2014, Mills' engineering efforts have been focused on containing and moderating arc plasma-based reactions involving low-voltage, high-current mixed with H2 gas fuel and trace amounts of HOH catalyst.

What gauge wire do you recommend for delivering 10,000 amperes? I would have thought the supply lines for that much current would have been visible in the videos.

Also, why does hydrogen plasma exhibit negative resistance at so much lower currents for everyone except Mills?
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Old 26th December 2018, 09:41 AM   #3296
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Originally Posted by jsfisher View Post
What gauge wire do you recommend for delivering 10,000 amperes? I would have thought the supply lines for that much current would have been visible in the videos.

Also, why does hydrogen plasma exhibit negative resistance at so much lower currents for everyone except Mills?
There are a variety of ways to create that much amperage. In Mills' most recent paper (free PDF here), Mills describes the experimental setup as a "Tungsten Inert Gas" (TIG) welder exploding silver shots impregnated with regular water. In his current prototypes, I believe he is shooting counter-posed electrified liquid Gallium electrodes at each other to create the ignition point within reactor.

I don't know why Mills finds 10kA region efficient for his purposes. I seem to recall mention of other setups using somewhat lower or higher amperage.
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Old 26th December 2018, 11:20 AM   #3297
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Originally Posted by optiongeek View Post
There are a variety of ways to create that much amperage. In Mills' most recent paper (free PDF here), Mills describes the experimental setup as a "Tungsten Inert Gas" (TIG) welder exploding silver shots impregnated with regular water. In his current prototypes, I believe he is shooting counter-posed electrified liquid Gallium electrodes at each other to create the ignition point within reactor.

I don't know why Mills finds 10kA region efficient for his purposes. I seem to recall mention of other setups using somewhat lower or higher amperage.
There's a TiG welder that can deliver 10,000 amps?
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Old 26th December 2018, 11:24 AM   #3298
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Originally Posted by optiongeek View Post
There are a variety of ways to create that much amperage.
I didn't ask about creating it. I asked about wire gauge needed to deliver it to the alleged NDR plasmas in the most recent set of videos.

Quote:
...
In his current prototypes, I believe he is shooting counter-posed electrified liquid Gallium electrodes at each other to create the ignition point within reactor.
Yeah, ok. If you say so. No industrial spot welder appears in the videos, though. So where are the 10,000 A current-carrying cables?

Quote:
I don't know why Mills finds 10kA region efficient for his purposes. I seem to recall mention of other setups using somewhat lower or higher amperage.
The reason why is easy. Mills is a liar, and the more dramatic, the more explosive the demonstration the easier it is to convince the gullible it was something different from it really was.
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Old 26th December 2018, 11:30 AM   #3299
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
There's a TiG welder that can deliver 10,000 amps?
optiongeek didn't actually read the paper. The TiG welder was used in creating the silver "shots". It operated at 30A at 12V. An industrial spot welder supposedly did the heavy-duty shot blasting at anything up to 22,000A.
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Old 26th December 2018, 11:47 AM   #3300
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Originally Posted by jsfisher View Post
optiongeek didn't actually read the paper. The TiG welder was used in creating the silver "shots". It operated at 30A at 12V. An industrial spot welder supposedly did the heavy-duty shot blasting at anything up to 22,000A.
My apologies. Thanks for catching that oversight.
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Old 26th December 2018, 02:27 PM   #3301
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Originally Posted by optiongeek View Post
Non-Chemist answer but in line with Mills' description of the reaction: Oxygen has four electrons in its outer most (2p) shell. Two are shared with the Hydrogen atoms, leaving two available for ionization.
Ah, so it's a reactant, not a catalyst. After all, nothing in your descriptions indicates how the water is re-formed, and the very definition of catalyst is that there is no net consumption in the reaction.

But given this, and given that this exact combination occurs near underwater volcanoes, why do we still have oceans? A volcano does not short out, so it should be an unlimited reaction.

Also, with regards to your earlier comment that the explosive nature of the reaction prevents commercialization, I just drove a car.
Which runs on explosions.
Maybe you should hint to Mills that a mechanism to use explosions to create power DOES exist? And has existed for 100+ years?
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Old 26th December 2018, 02:42 PM   #3302
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Originally Posted by JeanTate View Post
You’ll have to ask BLP for answers; no one here has anything that would help.

From what I understand, BLP, and its predecessors, have been promising a concrete answer. ... for 30+ years!
And this thread is still in the Science forum because...?

I'm only asking because I have seen this thread at the top of the Science forum list for years (along with Electric Comet) and it just seems kind of sad.
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Old 26th December 2018, 02:45 PM   #3303
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From what I’m reading here, it sounds like Mills’ “demonstrations” involves use of electrical welding units in non-standard ways to create bright arcing and explosions. This is hardly novel nor indicative of hidden physics - I’ve done similar in the past (and got in trouble for it....).
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Old 26th December 2018, 03:12 PM   #3304
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Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser View Post

Also, with regards to your earlier comment that the explosive nature of the reaction prevents commercialization, I just drove a car.
Which runs on explosions.
Maybe you should hint to Mills that a mechanism to use explosions to create power DOES exist? And has existed for 100+ years?
Actually ICE cars do not run on explosives. In fact should this happen, shortly the pistons will burn out. Instead it is a rapid controlled burn which heat gasses that expand and push the piston on the power stroke.

If the gasses improperly explode it causes a "ping" or "knock" sound which is quite destructive to the engine.

The reason this so called explosive "hydrino" reaction cant be commercialized is because it in fact does burn up the metal which cannibalizes the so called "hydrino" reactor. BTW this is also the most likely source of the so called "anomalous" energy that started the whole "hydrino" fiasco.

If there was a way to create energy from the reaction without burning metals then that early attempt would have been commercialized by now. There isn't because there is no such thing as hydrinos, so any attempt to prevent these side effects of burning up the reactor always also turn into no net gain in energy either! Simple conservation of energy, but using the potential energy of refined metals instead of refined petroleum.
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Old 26th December 2018, 03:20 PM   #3305
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
And this thread is still in the Science forum because...?

I'm only asking because I have seen this thread at the top of the Science forum list for years (along with Electric Comet) and it just seems kind of sad.
Top marks that man. You are right. Neither of them have anything to do with science. If this was Cosmoquest, neither of these two threads would exist. They got sick of people spamming pseudoscience on their site. By all means posit a hypothesis, but if you can't back it up with real science, then you should take a hike.
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Old 26th December 2018, 03:50 PM   #3306
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Originally Posted by jonesdave116 View Post
Top marks that man. You are right. Neither of them have anything to do with science. If this was Cosmoquest, neither of these two threads would exist. They got sick of people spamming pseudoscience on their site. By all means posit a hypothesis, but if you can't back it up with real science, then you should take a hike.
Cosmoquest is a science board. This is a scepticism board. It's founded on examining things like pseudoscience. That is its purpose.
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Old 26th December 2018, 04:09 PM   #3307
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Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser View Post
Ah, so it's a reactant, not a catalyst. After all, nothing in your descriptions indicates how the water is re-formed, and the very definition of catalyst is that there is no net consumption in the reaction.
Mills provides the complete HOH catalyst reaction in this 2015 paper:
81.6eV + HOH + H -> 2H+ + O- + e- + H*[1/4] + 81.6eV
H*[1/4] -> H[1/4] + 122.4eV
2H+ + O- + e- -> HOH + 81.6eV
for a net reaction of:
H -> H[1/4] + 204.0eV
(HOH recovers it's lost electrons)

Quote:
But given this, and given that this exact combination occurs near underwater volcanoes, why do we still have oceans? A volcano does not short out, so it should be an unlimited reaction.
Is there high current in undersea volcanoes? If not, how does the NDR region form?

Quote:
Also, with regards to your earlier comment that the explosive nature of the reaction prevents commercialization, I just drove a car.
Which runs on explosions.
Maybe you should hint to Mills that a mechanism to use explosions to create power DOES exist? And has existed for 100+ years?
Per the reaction I provided, each molecule of H converted to H[1/4] releases 204 eV. That's about 200 times the power density of burning gasoline. So I imagine the control engineering is somewhat more challenging.
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Old 26th December 2018, 05:14 PM   #3308
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Originally Posted by optiongeek View Post
Mills provides the complete HOH catalyst reaction in this 2015 paper:
81.6eV + HOH + H -> 2H+ + O- + e- + H*[1/4] + 81.6eV
H*[1/4] -> H[1/4] + 122.4eV
2H+ + O- + e- -> HOH + 81.6eV
for a net reaction of:
H -> H[1/4] + 204.0eV
(HOH recovers it's lost electrons)



Is there high current in undersea volcanoes? If not, how does the NDR region form?



Per the reaction I provided, each molecule of H converted to H[1/4] releases 204 eV. That's about 200 times the power density of burning gasoline. So I imagine the control engineering is somewhat more challenging.
That's all misdirection. What really happens is the Ti wire burns and it even catches some of the machine on fire too.
Here is what titanium looks like burning:
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE

Look familiar?

Once again I must emphasize that NEVER has Mills even showed any reason to make up new physics to explain what happens in his so called reactors. ALL of them can easily be explained by ordinary physics and chemistry, misuse of equipment, poorly designed controls etc....

That gobbly gook you started this comment with is pure unicorn poop. Just made up numbers on a page that do not explain reality at all.
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Old 26th December 2018, 05:28 PM   #3309
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Originally Posted by optiongeek View Post
Is there high current in undersea volcanoes? If not, how does the NDR region form?
Is that now necessary? Perhaps Mills has written about this new requirement somewhere. Does this also mean all the previous occasions where Mills has proudly proclaimed the successful generation of hydrinos he was mistaken because he didn't have 10,000 amps flowing through the plasma?
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Old 26th December 2018, 06:55 PM   #3310
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There is a chance Mills is taking a page or two from Thomas Edison. His reactors seem to be an extension of the process of inventing the light bulb.

A filament of metal with electric power making it glow. Different metals and gasses making for different results.

Mills takes it farther with higher voltage or amperage but adds s new twist. He starts his stuff on fire. A different result also as all he really makes is money.
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Old 26th December 2018, 07:27 PM   #3311
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Originally Posted by 8enotto View Post
A different result also as all he really makes is money.


That may be the most succinct summation of Mills I've ever heard. My hat is off to you, sir!
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Old 26th December 2018, 09:22 PM   #3312
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Originally Posted by jsfisher View Post
Is that now necessary? Perhaps Mills has written about this new requirement somewhere. Does this also mean all the previous occasions where Mills has proudly proclaimed the successful generation of hydrinos he was mistaken because he didn't have 10,000 amps flowing through the plasma?
Please see this recent post. The reaction kinetics are unfavorable (i.e. rate limited) unless there is a Negative Differential Resistance. When you supply high current, you get NDR and the feedback changes from negative to positive. The hydrino reaction can exist without it, but the reaction rate isn't commercially viable.
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Old 27th December 2018, 12:41 AM   #3313
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Originally Posted by optiongeek View Post
Please see this recent post. The reaction kinetics are unfavorable (i.e. rate limited) unless there is a Negative Differential Resistance. When you supply high current, you get NDR and the feedback changes from negative to positive. The hydrino reaction can exist without it, but the reaction rate isn't commercially viable.
Yeah I saw that when you wrote it the first time. It's yet another misdirection.

This part that you wrote is true though:
Quote:
Before 2013/2014, none of Mills' designs could be commercialized because they were inherently rate limiting.
Exactly true. Self limiting because there is only so much potential energy available. Release it slow and it lasts a bit longer, and release it fast and it is explosively fast release, even in several versions burning up his equipment, but in every case, the stored potential energy available is significantly less than Mills misdirects... because hydrinos don't exist.

This is the part that MUST happen before EVERYTHING else, account for the potential energy released and rule out any mundane explanations FIRST.

You don't get to just make up a whole new set of physics just to avoid admitting the experimental error in the original experiments. It is ridiculous woo. Only after exhaustive ruling out of EVERY other possible source for this energy, and EVERY other independent lab also similarly cant explain the phenomenon could you even begin to entertain the thought of imagining new physical laws to explain it.
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Old 27th December 2018, 05:12 AM   #3314
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optiongeek, can you offer any reason why Mills was unaware that these designs were not commercially viable?

He repeatedly said they were, over decades, and this is very well documented.
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Old 27th December 2018, 07:13 AM   #3315
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Originally Posted by optiongeek View Post
Please see this recent post.
You mean the post where you cited a paper you hadn't read? The paper that didn't mention using TiG welders to deliver 10,000 amps of current? It is also the paper that didn't mention the negative resistance characteristics of plasmas.

So far, I've seen only you mention the negative resistance characteristics of of plasmas at high current. Odd that, especially since hydrogen, helium, neon, mercury vapor, ..., all exhibit negative resistance at very low currents.

So, where has Mills written about this phenomenon you seem to have just made up on the spot?

Quote:
The reaction kinetics are unfavorable (i.e. rate limited) unless there is a Negative Differential Resistance. When you supply high current, you get NDR and the feedback changes from negative to positive. The hydrino reaction can exist without it, but the reaction rate isn't commercially viable.
Nice dodge. Commercially viability aside, you are side-stepping the question of hydrino creation in nature you so inappropriately dismissed by observing a lack of high current.
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Old 27th December 2018, 07:24 AM   #3316
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Originally Posted by jsfisher View Post
So, where has Mills written about this phenomenon you seem to have just made up on the spot?
This comes from personal communication with Dr. Mills on the now defunct SoCP. The archives have been removed as well so I'm afraid all we have to go on is my memory. My apologies if you find that insufficient.

Quote:
you are side-stepping the question of hydrino creation in nature you so inappropriately dismissed by observing a lack of high current.
The hydrino reaction may occur naturally in many places. Undersea volcanoes, lightning, gunpower and the solar corona have all been proposed. I'm merely pointing out that in each of these cases except the solar corona, the lack of a continuing source of arc plasma means that the reaction will not be self-sustaining. The universe is full of dark matter, so it doesn't seem inconsistent that it may be created ubiquitously.

Last edited by optiongeek; 27th December 2018 at 07:32 AM.
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Old 27th December 2018, 07:46 AM   #3317
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Originally Posted by optiongeek View Post
This comes from personal communication with Dr. Mills on the now defunct SoCP. The archives have been removed as well so I'm afraid all we have to go on is my memory. My apologies if you find that insufficient.
I find it very insufficient. You proffered as fact something that you now reveal as faded personal memory. Worse, your account contradicts well established, easily observed physical phenomena.
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Old 27th December 2018, 09:27 AM   #3318
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Originally Posted by JeanTate View Post
As of today, we have to wait a mere 38 (68) days before the world has concrete, independent, evidence of the existence of a hydrino-powered generator.

Another reason why Mills is almost certainly not right: no one with appropriate scientific training takes his claims seriously.

Initially, there was some interest in his reported findings, attempts to reproduce the experimental results (no such independent, verifiable replication has been reported), and critical examination of his reported theory (to put it kindly, it was found to be nonsense). No doubt some who looked into this also seriously considered how the nonsense could be turned into at least interesting, if not fully robust, alternatives; as I read the literature, some of these excursions have been published (thanks to optiongeek, markie, and UncertainH for your cites). Yet nothing has come of this.

Mills' fans sometimes gnash their teeth and wail that it's all a giant conspiracy by Establishment Science, to suppress the truth or to not threaten jobs, grants, etc. For some individual scientists, this may have some veracity; for Science as a whole it's so woefully ignorant that one wonders if any such fans even know any scientist, let alone have scientific training. For an anecdote, one of my faves is Stephen Jay Gould ... he accepted as a student someone who was an avowed creationist (or am I mis-remembering?).
As of today, we have to wait a mere 37 (67) days before the world has concrete, independent, evidence of the existence of a hydrino-powered generator.

Another reason why Mills is almost certainly does not have a working prototype: no public record of testing - let alone certification - of safety, health, and environmental impacts.

This has been covered in many posts, both in this thread and its predecessors. BLP is located in NJ, USA. New Jersey has a long and complicated history with regard to both environmental (etc) regulations and corruption. However, partly as a result of several safety, health, and environmental scandals associated with industrial practices and waste (say), of the US States it's near the top, today, in regulations of these ... and enforcement of those regulations.

Whatever hydrinos are (assuming they actually exist), they are novel chemicals, with unknown safety, health, and environmental impacts. For BLP to have a working prototype of a hydrino-based generator, one that's ready for shipping to independent test facilities, it must have some relevant safety, health, and environmental certificates. And those - at some level - will be public. To the best of my knowledge, no such certificates exist.
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Old 27th December 2018, 10:55 AM   #3319
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Originally Posted by optiongeek View Post
Mills provides the complete HOH catalyst reaction in this 2015 paper:
81.6eV + HOH + H -> 2H+ + O- + e- + H*[1/4] + 81.6eV
H*[1/4] -> H[1/4] + 122.4eV
2H+ + O- + e- -> HOH + 81.6eV
for a net reaction of:
H -> H[1/4] + 204.0eV
(HOH recovers it's lost electrons)



Is there high current in undersea volcanoes? If not, how does the NDR region form?



Per the reaction I provided, each molecule of H converted to H[1/4] releases 204 eV. That's about 200 times the power density of burning gasoline. So I imagine the control engineering is somewhat more challenging.
Ah, so Mill's is part of the Electric universe crowd where electricity is magic?
Lets see, undersea volcano

Energy in great excess to Mill's back yard setup? Check
Molten metals? Check
His catalyst in near unlimited amount? Check

So, all the parameters needed to fulfill his promises are present. And yet. Nothing.
The same with the lightning storms hitting Jupiter, yet that planet is still there.

Of course, the reason is not that Mills is such a genius that he, and he alone, can create a really easy setup that is utterly irreproducible in nature, but rather that he is a scam artist, using endless delays, fake science and random resets of his goals to keep getting money from idiots wanting to stick it to 'the man'.
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Old 27th December 2018, 11:05 AM   #3320
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Originally Posted by optiongeek View Post
This comes from personal communication with Dr. Mills on the now defunct SoCP. The archives have been removed as well so I'm afraid all we have to go on is my memory. My apologies if you find that insufficient.
Have you asked yourself why this valuable information resource has been virtually scrubbed from internet existence?
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