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Old 16th July 2019, 07:49 AM   #201
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I can't believe some people are up in arms about this. If Bond's retired, of course the 007 number is going to go to someone else. Are they saying that it can't be a woman?
They did with The Doctor, too. Been about as many of them as Bonds. IIRC, Felix Leiter of the CIA changed color at some point.
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Old 16th July 2019, 07:51 AM   #202
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- I always assumed the 007/James Bond thing was a code name / cover identity. It even makes sense within the world of the movies, we haven't seen a black or female James Bond yet because up until recently the spy world was mostly a white male business.

- The Doctor is literally an alien, it could change into a bowl of cream pudding and not break canon.
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Old 16th July 2019, 07:51 AM   #203
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
They did with The Doctor, too. Been about as many of them as Bonds. IIRC, Felix Leiter of the CIA changed color at some point.
The Doctor is one of the few characters I know that you can gender-flip in story without doing a reboot.

As long as they don't change fundamental aspects of the character I really don't care much. People hated Lex Luthor in BvS and it had nothing to do with skin colour, as that hadn't changed. They were pissed that he was nothing like the chararacter usually is portrayed.
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Old 16th July 2019, 07:52 AM   #204
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
- I always assumed the 007/James Bond thing was a code name / cover identity. It even makes sense within the world of the movies, we haven't seen a black or female James Bond yet because up until recently the spy world was mostly a white male business.
That doesn't really work in the older series, though. We see Moore's Bond mourne for Lazenby's wife, and I think Brosnan also reacts strongly to the mention. Connery even goes on a revenge rampage over it in Diamonds. And Skyfall confirms that it's his real name.
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Old 16th July 2019, 07:54 AM   #205
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
That doesn't really work in the older series, though. We see Moore's Bond mourne for Lazenby's wife, and I think Brosnan also reacts strongly to the mention. Connery even goes on a revenge rampage over it in Diamonds. And Skyfall confirms that it's his real name.
So is the lady playing James Bond or playing Agent 007, because I've heard it both ways.
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Old 16th July 2019, 07:56 AM   #206
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I just assumed agent, why would her parents name her James?



Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I can't believe some people are up in arms about this. If Bond's retired, of course the 007 number is going to go to someone else. Are they saying that it can't be a woman?
Unbelievable but not surprising.
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Old 16th July 2019, 08:00 AM   #207
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
So is the lady playing James Bond or playing Agent 007, because I've heard it both ways.
She's playing his replacement, as he's retired after Spectre. You know, the kind of stuff that doesn't matter. Of course if Bond was now a woman I'd understand the outrage.
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Old 16th July 2019, 08:08 AM   #208
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
She's playing his replacement, as he's retired after Spectre. You know, the kind of stuff that doesn't matter. Of course if Bond was now a woman I'd understand the outrage.
Oh yeah then there's nothing to even get a little outraged out. It's not like Bond went into the bathroom a 6 foot 1, White British Man and came out 3 seconds later as a 5 foot 2 African American Woman and nobody acknowledged it.

Now if they make Bond a mermaid... actually that would be awesome I would totally watch that.
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Old 16th July 2019, 08:38 AM   #209
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Disney has never not butchered an original story or folk tale when creating adaptations (and that's usually a good thing - read some of the originals, I don't even know what they hell they're supposed to be). I love how it's fine when we're removing all the rape and witches skinning people alive and ****, but tweaking a skin tone of a sea creature is just PANDERING and THE LINE MUST BE DRAWN.

If they made Snow White black, that might be a little strange. Or maybe not, hell, maybe Snow White is ironic as hell in this adaptation. "I live with the seven dwarves," she says boredly, exhaling vape smoke. "You've probably never heard of them. They're pretty underground."
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Old 16th July 2019, 09:04 AM   #210
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Originally Posted by isissxn View Post
Disney has never not butchered an original story or folk tale when creating adaptations (and that's usually a good thing - read some of the originals, I don't even know what they hell they're supposed to be). I love how it's fine when we're removing all the rape and witches skinning people alive and ****, but tweaking a skin tone of a sea creature is just PANDERING and THE LINE MUST BE DRAWN.
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Old 16th July 2019, 09:07 AM   #211
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
So is the lady playing James Bond or playing Agent 007, because I've heard it both ways.
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Old 16th July 2019, 09:10 AM   #212
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Now if they make Bond a mermaid... actually that would be awesome I would totally watch that.
A View To A Krill
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Old 16th July 2019, 09:11 AM   #213
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
A View To A Krill
Dive another day.
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Old 16th July 2019, 09:16 AM   #214
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...

Doctor Noah.
From Atlantis With Love
Goldflipper
Waterball



Obviously Octopussy would stay the same.
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Old 16th July 2019, 09:18 AM   #215
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
...


From Atlantis With Love
The winner!!!!
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Old 16th July 2019, 09:54 AM   #216
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Old 16th July 2019, 09:55 AM   #217
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Old 16th July 2019, 10:01 AM   #218
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Originally Posted by isissxn View Post
Disney has never not butchered an original story or folk tale when creating adaptations (and that's usually a good thing - read some of the originals, I don't even know what they hell they're supposed to be). I love how it's fine when we're removing all the rape and witches skinning people alive and ****, but tweaking a skin tone of a sea creature is just PANDERING and THE LINE MUST BE DRAWN.

If they made Snow White black, that might be a little strange. Or maybe not, hell, maybe Snow White is ironic as hell in this adaptation. "I live with the seven dwarves," she says boredly, exhaling vape smoke. "You've probably never heard of them. They're pretty underground."
At a college film night entitled "A Celebration of Bad Taste", I saw a WWII era cartoon called "Coal Black and da Sebben Dwarves". There's a reason it was at "A Celebration of Bad Taste". Really blatantly racist.


But you can look it up on youtube. I just watched a very good commentary on it that focused on the voice actors, the quality of the animation, and the jazz soundtrack.


After I saw a picture of Halle Bailey, I think she looks the part. The dark skin doesn't matter, but the expressions and general facial features certainly fit what I would think of as a human version of Ariel. I can see why people might think it was pandering, but it's a no win situation. If they only consider white people for the part, it's called racist. If they only consider black people, it's called pandering. If they don't take skin color into account, and just choose the actress that best fits the role, no one believes they did that.



If they had made the character a lesbian, THAT would be pandering.
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Old 16th July 2019, 12:31 PM   #219
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
At a college film night entitled "A Celebration of Bad Taste", I saw a WWII era cartoon called "Coal Black and da Sebben Dwarves". There's a reason it was at "A Celebration of Bad Taste". Really blatantly racist.


But you can look it up on youtube. I just watched a very good commentary on it that focused on the voice actors, the quality of the animation, and the jazz soundtrack.


After I saw a picture of Halle Bailey, I think she looks the part. The dark skin doesn't matter, but the expressions and general facial features certainly fit what I would think of as a human version of Ariel. I can see why people might think it was pandering, but it's a no win situation. If they only consider white people for the part, it's called racist. If they only consider black people, it's called pandering. If they don't take skin color into account, and just choose the actress that best fits the role, no one believes they did that.



If they had made the character a lesbian, THAT would be pandering.
IMO, spot on.
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Old 16th July 2019, 12:57 PM   #220
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
She's playing his replacement, as he's retired after Spectre. You know, the kind of stuff that doesn't matter. Of course if Bond was now a woman I'd understand the outrage.
My money's on a bait and switch marketing strategy. The actual plot will be, Bond retires, they give his number to a newly-elevated 00 agent. Then she dies or whatever, and Bond has to come out of retirement, solve the mystery, get revenge, and reclaim the number. Basically the female 007 is just a Next Level Bond Girl.
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Old 16th July 2019, 12:59 PM   #221
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
My money's on a bait and switch marketing strategy. The actual plot will be, Bond retires, they give his number to a newly-elevated 00 agent. Then she dies or whatever, and Bond has to come out of retirement, solve the mystery, get revenge, and reclaim the number. Basically the female 007 is just a Next Level Bond Girl.
Split the difference. Make 007(M) and 007(F) co-leads in the film to gauge audience reactions, if they are open to it consider making 007 female in the future or going ahead with the franchise with a female lead in some manner, quietly walk it back if it doesn't.
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Old 16th July 2019, 01:04 PM   #222
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Originally Posted by isissxn View Post
If they made Snow White black, that might be a little strange.

"Coal Black and de Sebben Dwarfs", one of the Warner Bros. cartoons that never airs and has never been officially released on home media. One of the "Censored Eleven".


Ninja'd by several hours. I need to read more carefully.

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Old 16th July 2019, 06:03 PM   #223
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
- I always assumed the 007/James Bond thing was a code name / cover identity. It even makes sense within the world of the movies, we haven't seen a black or female James Bond yet because up until recently the spy world was mostly a white male business.

- The Doctor is literally an alien, it could change into a bowl of cream pudding and not break canon.
007 is a code name; but James BOnd is a real person. In the novel version of You Only Live Twice they have an obiturary for him when he is though killed in the line of duty.
The "James Bond Is a Cover Name" is regarded by almost all heavy duty Bond fans as a BS theory only purposed by those unfamiliar with the books.
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Old 16th July 2019, 06:04 PM   #224
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Originally Posted by Armitage72 View Post
"Coal Black and de Sebben Dwarfs", one of the Warner Bros. cartoons that never airs and has never been officially released on home media. One of the "Censored Eleven".


Ninja'd by several hours. I need to read more carefully.
For a long time "Bugs Nips the Nips" was also verboten, but that finally got a release a few years ago.
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Old 16th July 2019, 06:08 PM   #225
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
So is the lady playing James Bond or playing Agent 007, because I've heard it both ways.
SHe is playing agent 007 after Bonds leaves MI6;she has taken his old job.
She is NOT James Bond.
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Old 16th July 2019, 07:34 PM   #226
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Originally Posted by Cavemonster View Post
Then you must ******* hate Disney.
For most people, presumably Venom included, Disney is the original. Most people don't know the original folklore that Disney butchered. They grew up with the Disney versions of the stories, and that was the first version they knew about because they were children at the time.
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Old 16th July 2019, 11:51 PM   #227
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
For most people, presumably Venom included, Disney is the original. Most people don't know the original folklore that Disney butchered. They grew up with the Disney versions of the stories, and that was the first version they knew about because they were children at the time.
I can't tell if you're doing a tongue in cheek thing or making a sincere point here.

Are you saying that anyone here is unaware that the stories in Disney movies existed before the films?
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Old 16th July 2019, 11:58 PM   #228
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Originally Posted by Cavemonster View Post
I can't tell if you're doing a tongue in cheek thing or making a sincere point here.

Are you saying that anyone here is unaware that the stories in Disney movies existed before the films?
(patiently) No, I'm saying that many, many people encountered these stories for the first time as children when they watched Disney movies, and therefore for those people the Disney version is the "original". They only learned about the actual original versions much later, some of them probably not at all, especially if they don't have a particular interest in folklore.
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Old 17th July 2019, 12:10 AM   #229
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for many "fairy-tales" you might be hard pressed to find faithful originals - because they are so gruesome, use terrible stereotypes, are extremely racist and don't really have any positive message beyond: "follow the rules or else!" that no publisher is willing to re-print them in any significant numbers.
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Old 17th July 2019, 12:32 AM   #230
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
(patiently) No, I'm saying that many, many people encountered these stories for the first time as children when they watched Disney movies, and therefore for those people the Disney version is the "original". They only learned about the actual original versions much later, some of them probably not at all, especially if they don't have a particular interest in folklore.
Disney very likely was Venom's first exposure to many or most of those stories. But he's an adult now. And it doesn't take a niche appreciation of folklore for an adult to be aware that between Cinderella, Pinocchio, Sleeping Beauty, Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, The Little Mermaid, Robin Hood, Rapunzel, The Hunchback of Notre Dame, The Jungle Book, etc etc etc. at least some of them may be based on an earlier property.

I'd venture so far as to say that an adult who is interested enough in Disney to participate in a multi-day conversation about them online and have an emotion reaction to them being "messed with" but who isn't aware that these aren't original, in a thread where the actual original is discussed, is a couple crayons short of a box.

I'd prefer to be charitable to Venom and work from the assumption that he may not be consistent in his disdain for "messing with stories" rather than your theory that he's a total idiot.
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Old 17th July 2019, 12:44 AM   #231
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
007 is a code name; but James BOnd is a real person. In the novel version of You Only Live Twice they have an obiturary for him when he is though killed in the line of duty.
The "James Bond Is a Cover Name" is regarded by almost all heavy duty Bond fans as a BS theory only purposed by those unfamiliar with the books.
Well yes, but then the films don't track the books terribly well anyway.
They're two quite different things.

Besides, you don't need the book of YOLT, as the film has an obit as well.
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Old 17th July 2019, 01:08 AM   #232
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Originally Posted by Cavemonster View Post
Disney very likely was Venom's first exposure to many or most of those stories. But he's an adult now. And it doesn't take a niche appreciation of folklore for an adult to be aware that between Cinderella, Pinocchio, Sleeping Beauty, Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, The Little Mermaid, Robin Hood, Rapunzel, The Hunchback of Notre Dame, The Jungle Book, etc etc etc. at least some of them may be based on an earlier property.

I'd venture so far as to say that an adult who is interested enough in Disney to participate in a multi-day conversation about them online and have an emotion reaction to them being "messed with" but who isn't aware that these aren't original, in a thread where the actual original is discussed, is a couple crayons short of a box.

I'd prefer to be charitable to Venom and work from the assumption that he may not be consistent in his disdain for "messing with stories" rather than your theory that he's a total idiot.
I think you'll find that most adults who watched the movies as kids, did not watch them again unless they had kids of their own, and then they watched new ones. That's certainly what happened to me, and to pretty much everyone else I know, both with and without children. Also, I have an interest in folklore, which is the only reason I knew that, for example, Mulan was based on an earlier tale.

Also, you have to remember that most people don't read. The only way you get the original stories is in books, and in general most people don't read for pleasure any more.
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Old 17th July 2019, 02:46 AM   #233
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
I heard from a very credible source that the fact that Ariel is African American proves that not Poseidon, but Black Manta is her real father.
Now you've spoiled the sequal!
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Old 17th July 2019, 03:59 AM   #234
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
I have no dog in the race.

I just don't like seeing my childhood shows getting rewritten to appease the politically correct base.

That's not what's happening. Disney respond to money and only money.

Your childhood show is getting rewritten so it makes money in the modern era.

Exactly the same as it was re-written to make money in your era.

You are no longer the target audience to be pandered to.

Get over it.
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Old 17th July 2019, 04:12 AM   #235
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
My money's on a bait and switch marketing strategy. The actual plot will be, Bond retires, they give his number to a newly-elevated 00 agent. Then she dies or whatever, and Bond has to come out of retirement, solve the mystery, get revenge, and reclaim the number. Basically the female 007 is just a Next Level Bond Girl.
I'm pretty sure that's close to the mark.

But some people just live to be offended.
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Old 17th July 2019, 07:36 AM   #236
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
I heard from a very credible source that the fact that Ariel is African American
Outrageous. Defining a sea creature by two areas of dry land is blatant terrestrialism.
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Old 17th July 2019, 08:33 AM   #237
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I just feel lucky that the Disney movies of my childhood were Herbie Goes Bananas and The Devil and Max Devlin. You can go ahead and mess with those.
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Old 17th July 2019, 08:37 AM   #238
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I think we're forgetting the real victims here.

All of the Rule 34 fanart will have to be updated now. Think of all the Deviant Artists.
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Old 17th July 2019, 08:42 AM   #239
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Mermaids were simply a witness's misunderstanding of the sight of a dolphin swallowing a woman whole, starting from the feet. This happens frequently in coastal areas, between zero and five hundred thousand sixty-one people die this way annually.
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Old 17th July 2019, 08:49 AM   #240
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
007 is a code name; but James BOnd is a real person. In the novel version of You Only Live Twice they have an obiturary for him when he is though killed in the line of duty.
The "James Bond Is a Cover Name" is regarded by almost all heavy duty Bond fans as a BS theory only purposed by those unfamiliar with the books.
Killed in the name of duty? Isn't that what everybody else believed whilst Bond lived as a Japanese fisherman, impregnating the locals whilst dealing with his amnesia?
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