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Tags christianity , heaven , spouses

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Old 3rd February 2020, 01:05 PM   #1
Oystein
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Your spouse in Heaven

Many Christians (and, I presume, believers of other religions) believe or hope that they will somehow get reunited in Heaven with their family and other loved ones after they die and get the thumbs-up by their god.

I have often wondered how they will recognize each other. Will they meet the child person, adult person, or perhaps the demented old-age person?

Today, another question popped into my otherwise unoccupied mind:
When your spouse dies and you then marry someone else (and perhaps your new spouse also dies and you marry a third time...), and when you all have died and made it to Heaven, will you have two (or three or more) spouses then? Isn't that polygamy?

What does practical theology suggest here?
What do the common religious folks think?
What about girl friends or boy friends who died before they could get properly married?

A suspicion creeps upon me that says that the believers haven't thought this all quite through, or perhaps the thought of being 100% preoccupied with praising god and not having any time or concern for private time with your risen loved ones is appealing to them...
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Old 3rd February 2020, 01:12 PM   #2
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I always got the impression that it was more of a "unity" thing, that all the "good people" would be together in Heaven.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 01:22 PM   #3
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There is no sex in heaven so it really doesn't matter.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 01:27 PM   #4
RecoveringYuppy
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
I have often wondered how they will recognize each other. Will they meet the child person, adult person, or perhaps the demented old-age person?

For dementia cases I've always wondered if little bits of your mind show up in heaven at a time? I almost blew a joke a few minutes ago because I took a minute to recall the word "Agastopia". Was there some pale copy of me in heaven thinking the word "Agastopia" without any other thought in it's mind?
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Old 3rd February 2020, 01:44 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Many Christians (and, I presume, believers of other religions) believe or hope that they will somehow get reunited in Heaven with their family and other loved ones after they die and get the thumbs-up by their god.

I have often wondered how they will recognize each other. Will they meet the child person, adult person, or perhaps the demented old-age person?

Today, another question popped into my otherwise unoccupied mind:
When your spouse dies and you then marry someone else (and perhaps your new spouse also dies and you marry a third time...), and when you all have died and made it to Heaven, will you have two (or three or more) spouses then? Isn't that polygamy?

What does practical theology suggest here?
What do the common religious folks think?
What about girl friends or boy friends who died before they could get properly married?

A suspicion creeps upon me that says that the believers haven't thought this all quite through, or perhaps the thought of being 100% preoccupied with praising god and not having any time or concern for private time with your risen loved ones is appealing to them...
Bad news, none of your wives will be in heaven. Good news, instead there will be 144.000 virgins there gagging for it. Bad news if you are hetrosexual. Good news if you are gay.

Revelation
14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Last edited by Lothian; 3rd February 2020 at 01:45 PM.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 02:32 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Lothian View Post
Bad news, none of your wives will be in heaven. Good news, instead there will be 144.000 virgins there gagging for it. Bad news if you are hetrosexual. Good news if you are gay.

Revelation
14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
Whelp. Guess that resolves Pascals Wager.

Plus I'm pretty sure my Catholic wife is banking on an upgraded husband in Heaven. Something about having already served an eternal sentence in this life.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 02:33 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Today, another question popped into my otherwise unoccupied mind:

When your spouse dies and you then marry someone else (and perhaps your new spouse also dies and you marry a third time...), and when you all have died and made it to Heaven, will you have two (or three or more) spouses then?
Matt 22:30 has Jesus take on this.

See also Mark 12:25

Originally Posted by qayak View Post
There is no sex in heaven so it really doesn't matter.
Basically this.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 02:47 PM   #8
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If you're a Mormon, it'll look like this.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 02:50 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
If you're a Mormon, it'll look like this.
Or this:


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...hill-diversity
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Old 3rd February 2020, 03:11 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Matt 22:30 has Jesus take on this.

See also Mark 12:25



Basically this.

Yes Matthew and Mark speak with some authority about this topic. The resurrected will be just like angels we are told.

Confusing is it not? One must wonder why God did not just everyone "just like angels" from the start. Why make them as flawed lesser beings first? All too confusing for me, but I'm sure the Christian apologists will be able to give us some kind of convoluted explanation.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 04:00 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
One must wonder why God did not just everyone "just like angels" from the start. Why make them as flawed lesser beings first? All too confusing for me, but I'm sure the Christian apologists will be able to give us some kind of convoluted explanation.
It gets even weirder when you ask whether we'll still have the cognitive freedom to disobey or even dislike our divine host.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 05:23 PM   #12
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Don't most Christian wedding rituals use the terms "until death do us part" in the vows? I've always taken that to be understood that marriages terminate when one party dies, whether there's an afterlife or not.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 06:13 PM   #13
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Anyone who could even think of marrying another person after their first spouse dies could not have been truly in love and will not deserve to go to heaven.

So anyone who makes it into Heaven will only have one spouse to spend eternity with.

(They will have to spend eternity in hell with their exes.)

Last edited by jrhowell; 3rd February 2020 at 06:15 PM.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 07:19 PM   #14
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most Christians haven't thought it through - see Heaven as an upgrade to what they have now - like going from Economy to 1st Class
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Old 4th February 2020, 04:31 AM   #15
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Thanks for all the replies, the funny and the serious ones. Good thinking mostly! I'll respond to a few later today
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Old 4th February 2020, 05:13 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by LarryS View Post
most Christians haven't thought it through - see Heaven as an upgrade to what they have now - like going from Economy to 1st Class
Ive been to heaven in Etihad then?

Could be. First class may be as good as it gets anywhere.....
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Old 4th February 2020, 06:26 AM   #17
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A major theme in lots of bluegrass and country gospel songs is being re-united with your loved ones in Heaven.
What if you hated the bunch of ‘em? Abusive parents, drunken uncles, bullying cousins.....

“Ewww.... Do I HAVE to hang out with those guys again?”
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Old 4th February 2020, 06:36 AM   #18
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I and my family will be knee deep in fire and brimstone, suffering hellish retribution for all eternity so I don't think we'll much care. I fully expect to see many of you lot there and especially all those who are labouring under the cloak of religion and forgiveness.
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Old 4th February 2020, 07:19 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Yes Matthew and Mark speak with some authority about this topic. The resurrected will be just like angels we are told.

Confusing is it not? One must wonder why God did not just everyone "just like angels" from the start. Why make them as flawed lesser beings first? All too confusing for me, but I'm sure the Christian apologists will be able to give us some kind of convoluted explanation.
But according to the Bible, Lot had to offer up his daughters to prevent angels from being "raped". Thus angels have some level of sexual attractiveness, right?

Of course, the bible could be wrong, but that has never happened before, right?
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Old 4th February 2020, 08:36 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
There is no sex in heaven so it really doesn't matter.
Which kind of makes you wonder why men with damaged genitals aren't allowed in.
What difference would it make, if you're not going to use them?
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Old 4th February 2020, 09:10 AM   #21
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"They say that heaven is like TV
A perfect little world that doesn't really need you
And everything there is made of light..." - Laurie Anderson

If it's specifically like broadcast TV, that would also explain why there's no sex. Network standards.
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Old 4th February 2020, 09:24 AM   #22
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The whole dementia thing always seemed like a no brainer to me: the whole idea of an afterlife is just silly. Christians, however always tell me the version of you in Heaven will be a perfect one, without mental or physical disabilities. This unanimity founders when you are talking about a person impaired from birth: Is the Heavenly version one that never existed on Earth?


Theists believe some strange things.
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Old 4th February 2020, 10:17 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
There is no sex in heaven so it really doesn't matter.
No change at all for us married folk.
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Old 4th February 2020, 10:20 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
The whole dementia thing always seemed like a no brainer to me:
That's a little harsh. There is still some brain left.
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Old 4th February 2020, 07:08 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by welshdean View Post
No change at all for us married folk.
I asked my wife, "Honey, why don't you ever tell me when you are having an orgasm?"

She replied, "Because you're never there!"
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Old 6th February 2020, 09:54 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Don't most Christian wedding rituals use the terms "until death do us part" in the vows? I've always taken that to be understood that marriages terminate when one party dies, whether there's an afterlife or not.
As someone already pointed out, not the Mormons. If you get married in a Mormon temple by their designated authority, it's "for time and all eternity." Which then gives rise to all sorts of special cases for divorce, death of the spouse, and remarriage. And in contrast to some other religions, marriage is a huge deal for Mormons, to the point where they really want to get involved in public policy debates over marriage. For a religion that fled to the West over their own peculiar ideas about marriage, they seem to want to impose a lot of restrictions on everyone else.

And how do they get around that part in the Bible that says that in heaven they neither marry nor are given in marriage? They retcon it to say that if you're not already married when you get to heaven, you can't get married when you're there. You have to meet the person (or people, since this is Mormonism) that you're going to marry here on Earth, marry them appropriately on Earth, and then it persists in the hereafter. Married before Joseph Smith saved the world? No, problem; Mormons have you covered. Two already-married people on Earth get married again as proxies for you, then you're good to go in the afterlife.

And yes, you get to keep having "spirit babies" in heaven with your spouse. I believe it really is canon doctrine that the way this happens is the way impregnation occurs among organisms. I have no idea how that's supposed to happen without a carnal body. And yes, the "family unit" is preserved in heaven, meaning your children on Earth are your children in heaven -- except that somehow they and their children are also a "family unit" and have some sort of autonomy, and so forth and so on until it's turtles all the way down. Plus the Mormon concept of the hereafter could out-Dante Dante anyway for its convolutions. Some ex-Mormon told me that they solve the remarriage problem by allowing polygamy (wink, wink, nudge, nudge) in heaven, but I don't know if that's canon. It obviously doesn't work for a woman who remarries after her first husband dies. More corner cases.

I agree few people who model the afterlife as basically a continuation of this life have really thought things through. That was always the easy way to get Scorpion tied up in knots. And rightly so, because I'd say the problem has some gnarly -- if not inherent -- contradictions. Another ex-Mormon, one of my software guys, compared it to hacky software solutions. You start out with a reasonably simple, reasonably well directed code base. Then ten years later it's a hopeless buggy mess of add-ons, ad hoc fixes, repurposed components, and special corner cases. Then it acquires the dreaded epithet, "Unmantainable." That's where I think a lot of theology ends up.
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Old 6th February 2020, 12:30 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
If you're a Mormon, it'll look like this.
How do they decide which generation gets to be the adult in heaven?
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Old 6th February 2020, 12:45 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Many Christians (and, I presume, believers of other religions) believe or hope that they will somehow get reunited in Heaven with their family and other loved ones after they die and get the thumbs-up by their god.

I have often wondered how they will recognize each other. Will they meet the child person, adult person, or perhaps the demented old-age person?

Today, another question popped into my otherwise unoccupied mind:
When your spouse dies and you then marry someone else (and perhaps your new spouse also dies and you marry a third time...), and when you all have died and made it to Heaven, will you have two (or three or more) spouses then? Isn't that polygamy?

What does practical theology suggest here?
What do the common religious folks think?
What about girl friends or boy friends who died before they could get properly married?

A suspicion creeps upon me that says that the believers haven't thought this all quite through, or perhaps the thought of being 100% preoccupied with praising god and not having any time or concern for private time with your risen loved ones is appealing to them...
It sounds as if you are trying to apply logic to religion; however, that sort of thing never does work out very well.
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Old 7th February 2020, 06:00 AM   #29
Oystein
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I always got the impression that it was more of a "unity" thing, that all the "good people" would be together in Heaven.
What about people who sometimes prefer to be left alone? Would Heaven be hell for them?

Originally Posted by qayak View Post
There is no sex in heaven so it really doesn't matter.
Really? How do you know? Does the bible say so?

Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Matt 22:30 has Jesus take on this.

See also Mark 12:25...
Ah!
Matt 22:30: "At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven."
Mark 12:25: "When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven."

Of course we now need a bible quote that informs that angels don't have sex ^^

Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
For dementia cases I've always wondered if little bits of your mind show up in heaven at a time? ...
Charming idea

Originally Posted by Lothian View Post
Bad news, none of your wives will be in heaven. Good news, instead there will be 144.000 virgins there gagging for it. Bad news if you are hetrosexual. Good news if you are gay.

Revelation
14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
144,000 is bad news anyway for the 1.44 billion Christians alive.

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Plus I'm pretty sure my Catholic wife is banking on an upgraded husband in Heaven. Something about having already served an eternal sentence in this life.
If you go to hell, will she follow you?
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Old 7th February 2020, 06:10 AM   #30
Oystein
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
If you're a Mormon, it'll look like this.
Yikes!

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Don't most Christian wedding rituals use the terms "until death do us part" in the vows? I've always taken that to be understood that marriages terminate when one party dies, whether there's an afterlife or not.
That's a bit unfair to the partner who dies first and may or may not find themselves single in Heaven

Originally Posted by jrhowell View Post
Anyone who could even think of marrying another person after their first spouse dies could not have been truly in love and will not deserve to go to heaven.

So anyone who makes it into Heaven will only have one spouse to spend eternity with.

(They will have to spend eternity in hell with their exes.)
Can a person not be truly in love twice? I mean God truly loves more than one human? Or so they hope?

Originally Posted by LarryS View Post
most Christians haven't thought it through - see Heaven as an upgrade to what they have now - like going from Economy to 1st Class
Even 1st class eventually lands and allows you to check out for some fun at the destination.
Heaven on the other hand is terrifying, in that it never ends...

Originally Posted by Bikewer View Post
A major theme in lots of bluegrass and country gospel songs is being re-united with your loved ones in Heaven.
What if you hated the bunch of em? Abusive parents, drunken uncles, bullying cousins.....

Ewww.... Do I HAVE to hang out with those guys again?
Those, you could hope, don't go to Heaven.
Is it acceptable to pray for Ma Jane and uncle Jim to not go to Heaven?

Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
I and my family will be knee deep in fire and brimstone, suffering hellish retribution for all eternity so I don't think we'll much care. I fully expect to see many of you lot there and especially all those who are labouring under the cloak of religion and forgiveness.
Someone said you'll be reunited with all their exes (who themselves will have all their exes around. One hell of an orgy!!

Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
But according to the Bible, Lot had to offer up his daughters to prevent angels from being "raped". Thus angels have some level of sexual attractiveness, right?

Of course, the bible could be wrong, but that has never happened before, right?
Do angels have a sex? Ya know, sexual dimorphism?

Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
Which kind of makes you wonder why men with damaged genitals aren't allowed in.
What difference would it make, if you're not going to use them?
There's more that you won't need any longer. Do you eat and drink in Heaven? Pee and poop?

Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
"They say that heaven is like TV
A perfect little world that doesn't really need you
And everything there is made of light..." - Laurie Anderson

If it's specifically like broadcast TV, that would also explain why there's no sex. Network standards.
There's the E in ISF!
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Old 7th February 2020, 06:21 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
The whole dementia thing always seemed like a no brainer to me: the whole idea of an afterlife is just silly. Christians, however always tell me the version of you in Heaven will be a perfect one, without mental or physical disabilities.
What about infants who die without language, experiences, hopes... Yes, infants and small children have always been somewhat of a problem, see "infant vs adult baptism".

Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
This unanimity founders when you are talking about a person impaired from birth: Is the Heavenly version one that never existed on Earth?...
There are people whom I am fond of because of their very imperfections. Will I no longer be fond of them when they are made perfect? Perfect is boring.

Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
[tl;dr] ...the dreaded epithet, "Unmantainable." ...
Found a typo...

Originally Posted by timhau View Post
How do they decide which generation gets to be the adult in heaven?
Good one!
For a long time, I thought that being 23 was my best year. So I figured that people would generally be in their young adulthood in Heaven. Lately, I have come to appreciate that I have grown wiser and more complex - and perhaps even look better than I did when I was younger!
(Yes yes I realize I am talking categories that won't play much of a role there)
Hasn't Jesus said we must become children again to enter the Kingdom?

Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
It sounds as if you are trying to apply logic to religion; however, that sort of thing never does work out very well.
Everyone applies some sort of "logic".
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Old 7th February 2020, 11:58 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
[i]... snipped for relevance ...[i/]

Everyone applies some sort of "logic".

Ummmm, ...

No. That is quite incorrect.

After all, if this is actually the case, then logic is so subjective that logic can mean anything that one wants logic to mean.

And since religion is so subjective that religion can mean anything that one wants religion to mean, therefore, you are saying that logic is equal to religion.

However, logic and religion are simply not the same thing, therefore they cannot be equal to one another.

I hope that you can understand the distinction.
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Old 7th February 2020, 02:54 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
Ummmm, ...

I hope that you can understand the distinction.
If only you were clear what distinction we are actually talking about. It's not this...

Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
you are saying that logic is equal to religion. ... However, logic and religion are simply not the same thing, therefore they cannot be equal to one another.
Nope, sorry, I did not say that. At all. I actually said, in, context:
Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
It sounds as if you are trying to apply logic to religion; however, that sort of thing never does work out very well.
Everyone applies some sort of "logic".
Applying logic to religion is not equating logic with religion.

Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
After all, if this is actually the case, then logic is so subjective that logic can mean anything that one wants logic to mean.
You seem to imply that there is only one, objectively true, sort of logic. But that's wrong. Logic is an axiomatic system, and I think it is quite typical for religious types to apply logical rules that you and I would consider ill-conceived.
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Old 7th February 2020, 04:28 PM   #34
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Did the Mormons ever stop going through lists of Jewish Holocaust victims and baptising, marrying, and sealing them by proxy so they could go to Mormon heaven?
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Old 7th February 2020, 05:13 PM   #35
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If there is a heaven, and I go there, I'll probably be bitterly disappointed.

Unless of course, it's me and all my dogs, snuggled up in one glorious puppy-pile!
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Old 8th February 2020, 02:00 AM   #36
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When I was a kid heaven and hell were two topics I struggled with when I was in Sunday school. Now my family on my mother's side were "primitive methodists" which I learned years later meant we had a very barebones religion even compared to other Methodists and Weslyians. They "solved" the heaven and hell problem by having no one go to hell, Jesus's sacrifice meant god will forgive everyone everything and anything (yep serial killers and the vilest of abusers, had questions about that as well) and everyone went to heaven. But heaven wasn't a super clean Swedish Montreal paradise, it wasn't a place at all, what we face after dying here was to become part of god. (To be fair it was all coached in a lot more flowery language, "eternity in God's presence" and such marketing nonsense but it boiled down to losing your individuality.)
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Old 8th February 2020, 02:01 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Did the Mormons ever stop going through lists of Jewish Holocaust victims and baptising, marrying, and sealing them by proxy so they could go to Mormon heaven?
Why do you think they are still running genealogy services, they aim to get all of us!
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Old 8th February 2020, 02:06 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
If only you were clear what distinction we are actually talking about. It's not this...


Nope, sorry, I did not say that. At all. I actually said, in, context:

Applying logic to religion is not equating logic with religion.


You seem to imply that there is only one, objectively true, sort of logic. But that's wrong. Logic is an axiomatic system, and I think it is quite typical for religious types to apply logical rules that you and I would consider ill-conceived.
I agree that many religions try to use logic and apply it, but of course the issue they always have is that no matter their starting point they end up with conclusions that are in contradiction with other beliefs or conclusions. This is because the logic is applied post hoc to the conclusions they already have.
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Old 8th February 2020, 08:49 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Did the Mormons ever stop going through lists of Jewish Holocaust victims and baptising, marrying, and sealing them by proxy so they could go to Mormon heaven?
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Why do you think they are still running genealogy services, they aim to get all of us!
I asked about that some time ago. Officially you can only submit names for proxy services if name is one of your ancestors, hence all the genealogy. They've actually been very transparent lately about it, even allowing representatives of other faith groups and advocates to monitor the proxy database and help flag unauthorized attempts as needing permission from living relatives. It's not just Holocaust victims (and now-deceased survivors). It's dead celebrities, political figures, and other historical figures. So now the church is one of the biggest IT employers in the state, in part because they have teams working on AIs that weed out names that were likely submitted against the rules.

Theologically it's a pretty deep rathole. Once you decide that certain things need to be done while mortal, you have to deal with the plight of people who died before your church formed. Once you solve that by saying proxy services work, then this creates an obligation for living people to tend to the dead. And when you realize that it's practically impossible to discover, much less proxy-baptize, the billions of people who have ever lived, the silliness of it weighs pretty heavily. According to the doctrine, after Jesus's second coming and the thousand-year reich, er, um, reign on Earth, the Mormon temples will be operating 24-hours a day at full tilt to get it all done. I'm not looking forward to the traffic downtown when that happens.
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Old 8th February 2020, 09:44 AM   #40
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When we were actively doing genealogy, we went to the library in SLC a few times. It's a great resource even if you aren't a member.
A memory from one of those trips:
We stayed in the Howard Johnson hotel around the corner from the library, and ate in their restaurant. I found the evening wait staff interesting; it had never occurred to me there could be that many gay men in all of Utah.
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